Is Pattaya Dead Right Now?

[bartender100]

I just started to prepare a budget for my trip to Pattaya in November. Considering the higher prices in Pattaya (roughly 15% up) plus the exchange rate difference, this trip will cost me about 20 % more than last year. Each 100 EUR banknote today means one 500 THB banknote less compared to last time. This is signifiacant difference. OK, this time I don't care, but next time I will think twice before booking air tickets.

Its going to be really quiet the weekend of 14/15/16 November apparently

[sharecropper]

3 miscellaneous observations:

1. I have lived in Jomtien on and off for 7 years and I have never seen it so quiet at night except maybe in that first year I arrived. I am really surprised at the lack of tourist activity on the street, especially at night. The beaches are dead, but Russian activity is slowly building, but nothing like last year. Yet think of all the investment, the bars, restaurants, condos, businesses that have been built/opened in those 7 years to cater for the exploding tourist market. There is so much money invested here that such a reduction in tourist numbers is going to hurt many Thai and foreigner-owned businesses.

2. So far, the madness of Bangkok has yet to visit Pattaya. If it does, the place will be finished. This could happen if violent demonstrations take place as the political street war - call it a civil war - of yellows versus reds worsens and spreads from Bangkok. We have been lucky so far, as the locals are paid to be bussed to Bangkok to take to the streets there, but it could be in the interests of "vested interests" on both sides to spread the conflict, as recently happened in Koh Samui and Yala. Pattaya would seem like a logical choice to cause the national government problems/embarrassment with even worse international headlines. We are lucky to have our own administration in the city, and the vested interests here, namely making money on the side, has helped insulate Pattaya so far, in my opinion. It's in nobody's interests to have the anarchy of Bangkok visited on Pattaya.

3. There is a risk of future targetted anti-foreigner violence (not just robbery), in Thailand, fuelled by, for example, the refusal of Britain to hand back Thaksin. A country with an embedded legal process, and established extradition laws which generally can't be bought or twisted with a wheelbarrow full of money for political expediency by people of influence may be incomprehensible to Thais, and they may not take kindly to Thaksin thumbing his nose at them from the UK in the future.

[Lancelot]

3. There is a risk of future targetted anti-foreigner violence (not just robbery), in Thailand, fuelled by, for example, the refusal of Britain to hand back Thaksin. A country with an embedded legal process, and established extradition laws which generally can't be bought or twisted with a wheelbarrow full of money for political expediency by people of influence may be incomprehensible to Thais, and they may not take kindly to Thaksin thumbing his nose at them from the UK in the future.

I've wondered about an anti-westerner back lash myself. Granted, I do not not of any in the recent past but the Thais seem to be a bit a bit sharp with each other now, IMO. All of their pent up frustrations erupting would not be a pleasant sight to behold...

Back on topic, the popular/well managed bars seem to have plenty of customers; the nondescript ones are deserted. There are still plenty of tourists in Pattaya but they seem to be package tour/family types, not as much into the infamous night life scene here.

Again, just my opinion, but I believe the "World Crisis" has not fully affected the Thai economy yet.

[midasthailand]

A Thai friend returned from Pattaya last night, she worked there for several years, according to her, Pattaya is doing just fine and there are plenty of people doing what they do best in Pattaya...Having fun.

[torrenova]

A Thai friend returned from Pattaya last night, she worked there for several years, according to her, Pattaya is doing just fine and there are plenty of people doing what they do best in Pattaya...Having fun.

People who work, usually do not have, by definition, any business interests and thus, often know nothing about the actual business side and profitability. On the other hand, people who have got businesses do have access to that information.

[plasticpig]

name='Lancelot' date='2008-10-23 08:34:24' post='2289796']

Again, just my opinion, but I believe the "World Crisis" has not fully affected the Thai economy yet.

Very true, it will hit them all very soon.

[opebo]

...A lot of what has dropped off is the Pattaya long stay crowd who have moved elsewhere. I don't know where but the long-termers are just turning their backs on Central Pattaya.

I think a significant percentage of the long-termers are no longer in Thailand, due to difficulties obtaining visas compared to years ago. If I had to guess I'd say the majority went home, and a few to Cambodia or the Philippines.

[cali4995]

Near the end of October seems to be about the worst of the rainy-season, nearly

every day now having showers. If you go down walking street or one of the other

seriously main venues, you see a lot of people. But step even 1km away where

there are still many bars about and you will see they are deserted. You just can't

pay 5-6 staff and rent and never have any customers. Many of these places open

and close on a monthly basis. Interesting to note that the places where the staff

are friendly and entertaining always have customers no matter how many available.

[torrenova]

...A lot of what has dropped off is the Pattaya long stay crowd who have moved elsewhere. I don't know where but the long-termers are just turning their backs on Central Pattaya.

I think a significant percentage of the long-termers are no longer in Thailand, due to difficulties obtaining visas compared to years ago. If I had to guess I'd say the majority went home, and a few to Cambodia or the Philippines.

Why would they have a difficulty in obtaining visas ? Retired people only need 800k in the bank or 400k if married (if grandfathered). Sure some who were on the monthly border run now need visas but the annual cost is not that dissimilar (if done on the cheap).

Perhaps expats are feeling the pinch n certain quarters but it is the tourist who support the vast majority of businesses and it is they who are low in numbers, low in quality and not spending as they once did.

[wileycoyote]

I agree,people are being cautious with their money

[opebo]

Why would they have a difficulty in obtaining visas ? Retired people only need 800k in the bank or 400k if married (if grandfathered). Sure some who were on the monthly border run now need visas but the annual cost is not that dissimilar (if done on the cheap).

Retirement visas are only available to very old persons, torrenova. Many sexpats who resided in Pattaya on stipends from home were not old enough to receive a retirement visa, and of course very few expats of any age or type have 800,000 baht to their name at any one time!

[Soutpeel]

Retirement visas are only available to very old persons, torrenova. Many sexpats who resided in Pattaya on stipends from home were not old enough to receive a retirement visa, and of course very few expats of any age or type have 800,000 baht to their name at any one time!

You consider 50 very old..... .......so what about some one who is 60 or 70 - geriatric ??

In most countries in the world 55-60 is the retirement age...

And nice to see the generalisation....if you are under 50....living in Pattaya... you are a sexpat...What about people living in BKK, CM or a host of other places in Thailand...they are not sexpats ??

you are talking through your ar*e..

[opebo]

You consider 50 very old..... .......so what about some one who is 60 or 70 - geriatric ??

In most countries in the world 55-60 is the retirement age...

And nice to see the generalisation....if you are under 50....living in Pattaya... you are a sexpat...What about people living in BKK, CM or a host of other places in Thailand...they are not sexpats ??

I certainly did not mean to discriminate against Pattaya residents by calling them sexpats (after all I consider Pattaya the best place in the world, and am a sexpat myself).

I think it is safe to assume that all male farangs in Thailand are sexpats, regardless of locality. (I know that is a generalization, but when it is 98% true, why not go for it?)

[Soutpeel]

I certainly did not mean to discriminate against Pattaya residents by calling them sexpats (after all I consider Pattaya the best place in the world, and am a sexpat myself).

I think it is safe to assume that all male farangs in Thailand are sexpats, regardless of locality. (I know that is a generalization, but when it is 98% true, why not go for it?)

Some of us actually work in Thailand so we can only manage to be part-time sexpats, so your assumption is wrong...

Hope you realise you are risking the wrath of the judgemental, anually retentive members of TV by making statements that 98% of all male farangs in Thailand are sexpats

They are going to tell you, you are going to hel_l, going to get STD's and they have never been a sexpat, and those who are practising sexpats should receive fire and brimstone or at the very least should get out of Thailand and go home to their own countries......

[plasticpig]

name='opebo' date='2008-10-25 17:43:16' post='2294296']

Retirement visas are only available to very old persons, torrenova. Many sexpats who resided in Pattaya on stipends from home were not old enough to receive a retirement visa, and of course very few expats of any age or type have 800,000 baht to their name at any one time!

Sorry mate yes they do.

Opebo

I think it is safe to assume that all male farangs in Thailand are sexpats, regardless of locality. (I know that is a generalization, but when it is 98% true, why not go for it?)

98%, please tell us why 98% and not say 100%, 70%, or 50%

is it because you just made it up, and please remember your talking about expats not tourists.

Edited October 26, 2008 by plasticpig

[Kerryd]

Funny. Most of the expats I know (well, 98% of them at least) are married, have families and businesses/jobs here. Not sure if they all have 800k in the bank at any one time.

Pattaya being somewhat dead right now shouldn't come as a surprise to any but the newest, greenest of expats. Considering it happens EVERY year (hmmm, could that be why they call it the "low season" ?).

I think the people that complain the most about it, are the ones who bought bars at the end of the last high season and didn't do their home work. Oh right, that happens pretty much EVERY year as well.

The good news is, the rainy season (which sort of coincides with the low season), is almost over, and high season is just around the corner. While the global financial hoax problem will have an effect on numbers, I'm sure there will still be a surge in the coming months, and opportunities for some bar owners to offload their dumps on a fresh batch of starry-eyed newbies.

After all, it happens EVERY year !

[Tarqin]

I agree that the doom and gloom merchants do do a Pattaya has died thread each low season BUT I am currently in London visiting family and friends and can tell you that the recession here is bad and the most worrying thing is that even market professionals I know do not know what the hel_l is happening.

Lloyd's TSB was seen as unbreakable, its busted. Banco Santander probably the most profitable bank in the world due to its Latin America business is plunging. The European currencies are in freefall.

Everyone I know is just praying they hang on to their jobs and houses. Holidays and spending are nowhere on the agenda. Got to have a knock on effect on Thailand.

Mind you I am more worried what the Thais will do to us expat Brits when the UK government refuse to hand over Thaksin.

[justbob]

but beach ladies are feel ok. except for the rain.

[Lancashirelad]

I hoped to be living in LOS by my 50th in November, but its not possible as i still have too many physical ties here in the UK.

So, i considered visiting for my birthday. (If i don't, this will be the 1st year since 2002 i have only been once), however, with no flights under £500, and now only 55bht to the £, coupled with work being slack/unreliable, its looking less & less likely i will be able to visit for my b/day

Means i'll even loose my Etihad Silver status

Edited October 27, 2008 by Lancashirelad

[Humphrey Bear]

As with Mobi - a couple of pages back - my wife has a beaty salon - normally three girls assisting, now she is on her own because she cannot meet their 5k wages bill each month. I subsidise her through the low season, but this year is not just low - it is rock-bottom.

Sure, as Tropo says, major businesses are still taking money, but these do not trickle down to the local working population. The big hotels, Lotus, Big C and so on take their profits out of Pattaya. They cut down on staff during hard times, again hurting the local population.

The bar trade in it's various forms is a big part of the income of Pattaya and that is DOWN - very much down. So the girls do not have the earnings, less money going back to Isaan, less money spent on clothes and hair-do's, girls living three-to-a-room instead of two, so on and so on. Things really are bad this year compared to many recent years. And I cannot see that business will get fully back to what it has been. My wife reckons to make enough during the November-mid-March season to carry through the rest. Last season was not as good as usual, high oil prices meant additional charges on air-fares, less money spent on bar-girls - this low season has been crippling for the small businesses.

Also the growing popularity of Angeles City in the Philippines, without the closing-time restrictions of Pattaya, and Subic Bay, with better seafront, and Cebu/Boracay/Palawan for family tourism - all cheaper than Patters - will not help recovery.

The only way to improve income in Pattaya is to go backwards and relax all the restrictions currently being enforced - make Fun City more fun again. I'll start a Party City Party for the nect elections.

[tropo]

Also the growing popularity of Angeles City in the Philippines, without the closing-time restrictions of Pattaya, and Subic Bay, with better seafront, and Cebu/Boracay/Palawan for family tourism - all cheaper than Patters - will not help recovery.

I can tell you for sure that Angeles City is not of "growing popularity" and suffering big time...more than Pattaya. They have other serious problems besides the economic meltdown such as serious police and local government corruption. They've even had to cancel their tourist police operation due to lack of funding so crime there has increassed quite a bit recently.

...however, because the Philippines is also in economic meltdown their currency is dropping like a stone too so that may help to bring some people over.

[unclesiberia]

Pattaya is fine for me at the moment .......BUT !

The arse has dropped out of the Baht exchange rates... this morning 53 Baht to 1 Sterling and its still falling should hit 50 by close on Friday , hopefully fingers crossed.

Icrease in street crimes , muggings , robberys , convertables presence on the increase .

Political situations not helping tourist numbers.

Crack down by the B in B on bar opening times.

Not a lot going on to attract tourists.

[tropo]

Pattaya is fine for me at the moment .......BUT !

The arse has dropped out of the Baht exchange rates... this morning 53 Baht to 1 Sterling and its still falling should hit 50 by close on Friday , hopefully fingers crossed.

The arse has dropped out of SOME currencies. The USD is doing better. Believe it or not Brits are not the only tourists in Pattaya.

[Mobi]

Also the growing popularity of Angeles City in the Philippines, without the closing-time restrictions of Pattaya, and Subic Bay, with better seafront, and Cebu/Boracay/Palawan for family tourism - all cheaper than Patters - will not help recovery.

The only way to improve income in Pattaya is to go backwards and relax all the restrictions currently being enforced - make Fun City more fun again. I'll start a Party City Party for the nect elections.

I have been to the Philippines – Angeles City – once, back in August for one week with some friends. The first couple of days were very quiet, but after that it seemed to be buzzing for the remainder of my stay.

I have to say it was the most enjoyable week I have had in a long time.

It was such a refreshing change to get away from the petty restrictions in Pattaya, and find a place that is open for business 24/7. There are no smoking restrictions (I don't smoke but my friends do), most of the bars are run by friendly westerners who almost always buy you at least one round of drinks on the house; the bar fines are around 1,000 Baht for all night of which the girls get 50% and no need to pay any more; all the girls speak good English and you can actually have an intelligent conversation with them over breakfast; on average I would say the girls are younger, more beautiful and their bodies are in much better shape than their cousins in Pattaya – an incredibly high percentage have not had babies, and around 15% are genuine virgins. They also dress better – classier - than the Pattaya girls. Drinks are much cheaper – a beer can be as little as 30 Baht, and even ladies' drinks are quite cheap.

I found the overall atmosphere much friendlier than Pattaya, and all the mama sans and girls are absolutely charming – with each other and punters alike. The hotel staff can't do enough for you, and all speak excellent English.

Tropo may well be correct that business is down in PI too, but I have a hunch that when the disparity between Pattaya today and Angeles City today becomes more widely known, then an increasing amount of the sexpat trade will be heading out to visit the charming catholic ladies of PI rather than the bullshit Buddhist ladies of LOS.

In many ways Angeles City reminded me of Pattaya some 30 years ago, in the sense of friendliness and lack off stupid restrictions. I doubt if Pattaya is going to change much any time soon, and as a result, I suspect trade will continue to dwindle and the number of tourist related businesses will contract sharply.

Pattaya will never die, but it will probably end up as a pale shadow of its former self.

[expatgaz]

Pattaya has been declining over the last 10 years with tourist numbers.I've lived here now for 12 years and remember the late 90's being very busy in high season and having a steady low season.It started to tail off once the restrictions started.Early bar closing,shows in bars,election days,buddha days etc etc.Iam married with kids so dont much go round the bars but party city has definately had its day and I agree the only way to get it back is turn back the clocks.The amount of days per year now that bars have to shut down is plain ridiculous,its getting to the stage where once a week bars are shut.People coming on a two week holiday don't want that.Pattaya got its name as fun town so bring it back if you want the tourists.For me I couldn't care,Iam settled so not bothered either way.

EPG.

[Lancelot]

In many ways Angeles City reminded me of Pattaya some 30 years ago, in the sense of friendliness and lack off stupid restrictions. I doubt if Pattaya is going to change much any time soon, and as a result, I suspect trade will continue to dwindle and the number of tourist related businesses will contract sharply.

Pattaya will never die, but it will probably end up as a pale shadow of its former self.

I'm an Angeles City fan too and find the Filipino people to be very friendly and polite. I've lived in Thailand for 5+ years and never had a bar owner welcome me, let alone buy me a drink. In AC, many bar owners have introduced themselves, made me feel welcome and bought me a beer.

Yeah, I like AC but I wouldn't count Pattaya out yet. Pattaya is like a name brand (same for Thailand) and has a certain magnetic draw that pulls in sexpats, couples, families, package tourists, you name it.

I don't think that the "powers that be" are doing Pattaya any long term good with their silly bar/go go closing hours and other restrictions, but as they say, "up to them." There is always a party going on somewhere and if not in Thailand, well its a big world out there

Edited October 27, 2008 by Lancelot

[CGW]

Pattaya has been declining over the last 10 years with tourist numbers.I've lived here now for 12 years and remember the late 90's being very busy in high season and having a steady low season.It started to tail off once the restrictions started.Early bar closing,shows in bars,election days,buddha days etc etc.Iam married with kids so dont much go round the bars but party city has definately had its day and I agree the only way to get it back is turn back the clocks.The amount of days per year now that bars have to shut down is plain ridiculous,its getting to the stage where once a week bars are shut.People coming on a two week holiday don't want that.Pattaya got its name as fun town so bring it back if you want the tourists.For me I couldn't care,Iam settled so not bothered either way.

EPG.

I would have to strongly disagree with this post, I have lived in Pattaya about 12 years, previous to which I lived in Bangkok, I moved here as it was quite and small, its grown by a huge amount in that time, 12 years ago you could park on both Soi 6 and soon to be named walking street, trying to find a rental property was a nightmare, there were ony ? x amount of hotel rooms, that number must have at least tripled? The first Supermarket had yet to open etc - Its image may change but it will remain a big city regardless.

I do have to agree though - it would be nice if the tourists stayed away.

[billdo2000]

Also the growing popularity of Angeles City in the Philippines, without the closing-time restrictions of Pattaya, and Subic Bay, with better seafront, and Cebu/Boracay/Palawan for family tourism - all cheaper than Patters - will not help recovery.

The only way to improve income in Pattaya is to go backwards and relax all the restrictions currently being enforced - make Fun City more fun again. I'll start a Party City Party for the nect elections.

I have been to the Philippines – Angeles City – once, back in August for one week with some friends. The first couple of days were very quiet, but after that it seemed to be buzzing for the remainder of my stay.

I have to say it was the most enjoyable week I have had in a long time.

It was such a refreshing change to get away from the petty restrictions in Pattaya, and find a place that is open for business 24/7. There are no smoking restrictions (I don't smoke but my friends do), most of the bars are run by friendly westerners who almost always buy you at least one round of drinks on the house; the bar fines are around 1,000 Baht for all night of which the girls get 50% and no need to pay any more; all the girls speak good English and you can actually have an intelligent conversation with them over breakfast; on average I would say the girls are younger, more beautiful and their bodies are in much better shape than their cousins in Pattaya – an incredibly high percentage have not had babies, and around 15% are genuine virgins. They also dress better – classier - than the Pattaya girls. Drinks are much cheaper – a beer can be as little as 30 Baht, and even ladies' drinks are quite cheap.

I found the overall atmosphere much friendlier than Pattaya, and all the mama sans and girls are absolutely charming – with each other and punters alike. The hotel staff can't do enough for you, and all speak excellent English.

Tropo may well be correct that business is down in PI too, but I have a hunch that when the disparity between Pattaya today and Angeles City today becomes more widely known, then an increasing amount of the sexpat trade will be heading out to visit the charming catholic ladies of PI rather than the bullshit Buddhist ladies of LOS.

In many ways Angeles City reminded me of Pattaya some 30 years ago, in the sense of friendliness and lack off stupid restrictions. I doubt if Pattaya is going to change much any time soon, and as a result, I suspect trade will continue to dwindle and the number of tourist related businesses will contract sharply.

Pattaya will never die, but it will probably end up as a pale shadow of its former self.

I've been wanting to go to the PI because of the good things i have heard. My only concern is my family and friends who live in Pattaya. I'm afraid I might like the PI so much that I won't come back to Pattaya. Essentially, I have two weeks holiday every four months and I work hard. When I come on holiday, I don't want to experience bar closures (for religious holidays or political elections).

[moo9]

Pattaya is fine for me at the moment .......BUT !

The arse has dropped out of the Baht exchange rates... this morning 53 Baht to 1 Sterling and its still falling should hit 50 by close on Friday , hopefully fingers crossed.

The arse has dropped out of SOME currencies. The USD is doing better. Believe it or not Brits are not the only tourists in Pattaya.

What is the advantage of a better exchange rate for the USD in case you are about to lose your job (GM, Ford, Chrysler).

The outlook is dull and all the developments will have a negative impact on worldwide tourism (not only Thailand).

Pattaya might do better than average because of the still attractive pricing.

[samuibeachcomber]

interesting post from mobi re angeles city and PI in general.does he work for their tourist board?Will have to go to find out,but from post the place sounds really good.Pity about whats happening in Pattaya re bar opening/closing times,but these ideas the authorities get, often are changed just as quickly.Am going up to Patters myself for new year so can see for myself then.

Opebo's idea that you have to be really old and have a squillon in the bank(800,000b)to obtain a retirement visa is a strange opinion.At retirement age that amount should not be difficult to find,and i guess 50years old may look old if your 17.