Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[Samuian]

There certainly does seem to be an inordinate amount of blood-letting with this, Somchai's "soft approach", compared to other tear-gassing episodes...

From the picture it would appear that those shooting gas cannisters are aiming low, possibly directly at the crowd; not at spaces between segments of the crowd. One would think that they should be 'lobbing' the cannisters using a high-angle approach to avoid directly striking anyone.

I strongly believe that the launching of these grenades has to be in an upright angel NOT horizontally, how else the many injuries plus the horrible loss of a leg be explained?

And then, WHO gave the order to aim low, or even at random into the crowd?

Well, does this make the declared "soft approach" a farce, or a lie?

Any estimates anyone?

[photojourn]

Clearly I'm out of kilter with the majority of opinions being expressed in this thread, but...

I don't consider a group of unarmed police using tear gas to disperse an unruly mob who were blocking elected members of Parliament from reaching their debating chamber an 'act of violence' as described by previous contributors, critical of Somchai.

One Aussie said Somchai's behaviour would never occur in Australia... neither would PAD's... The police would quickly and forcibly move a bunch of protestors on if they surround Parliament, erected barricades and prevented the government from going about its business. They'd use water canons, police with riot shields and batons and - as a last resort - tear gas, I'm sure. They'd also arrest the protestors, bundle them into buses and cart them off for processing. We saw them prepared to do this in Sydney during Apec last year.

The police should have acted in Bangkok sooner. Surely there is security around Parliament 24-seven, so why did no-one raise the alert and prevent the barricades being erected in the first place.

PPP is no white knight, but PAD is doing immeasurable damage to Thailand's economy by its lawlessness, illegal occupations and trespassing (airports, included). There are 800 international journalists and travel agents in Bangkok this week, all flown there by TAT and THAI - part of a Herculian effort to restore flagging tourism numbers to the country. No doubt they all turned on their hotel TVs this morning to scenes of anarchy and a strong - but justified - response by the police to restore law and order...

About time there was some balance. All these arm chair pundits giving their opinion sledging the Government for finally doing something that would have happened long ago in their own country.

What other country would allow a rabble to take over its Government House, close its airports and damage its economy in such a manner?

A long overdue stance by the ELECTED Government.

[TAWP]

Some posters question how less-lethal weapons can do these damages we see pictures of. Easy, use them in an incorrect manner with disregard for human safety, and you can do a lot. They are all less-lethal. Non-lethal is an incorrect term regarding any weapon.

Firing a gas-round directly on a person at 20 meters of range can be very lethal, if hitting badly (for instance the skull). Shooting rubber bullets (this is also clouding the fact how the bullets actually look, they are not soft and gentle items) can also lead to severe trauma if hitting bad. Usually lethal wound needs impact on the skull or directly in relations to the heart, but any combination of factors and bad luck can render wounds that are severe or even lethal by them selfs or in combinations.

In anyway, seeing the pictures above it is clear the police fired a multitude a gas cannisters directly at people. Not lobbing them or first letting them bounce (done when protesters are too close) one by aiming sharply into the ground. This would cause a part of the damages we have seen.

Is it the lacking riot training we are seeing?

[sriracha john]

There is quite a bit of video footage from a variety of sources of numerous people suffering severe burns or large lacerations (including the traumatic amputation of a leg posted earlier). These don't seem entirely consistent with the use of "tear-gas."

Shooting AT someone would do that and worse.

not exactly "soft" when they do that, eh?

Police have used soft approach on anti-government protesters : PM

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat did not worry about police's using tear gas at anti-government protesters, PM Secretary General Chusak Sirinin said Tuesday.

"Prime Minister told me that police have used soft approach to handle the protesters' situation," he said.

Edited October 7, 2008 by sriracha john

[Payboy]

They'd also arrest the protestors, bundle them into buses and cart them off for processing. We saw them prepared to do this in Sydney during Apec last year.

you mean like this.....?

[wrecker]

It is amazing that powerful people seem to support the PAD. Yes the police have used forced. Yes the accidents happend because of the baricades set up by the PAD itself, and yes it is in any society unthinkable that a mob would prevent parliament from doing its duty. people who support the PAD are therefore either supporters of a dictatorship or they have a vested interest in preventing the democracy from working properly.

The people who stand to lose from a working democracy are: Chamlong (he should surrender his illegally occupied land and start paying taxes), Sonthi (with his billions in bath of unpaid bills and his startegic non performing loans), the military who have seen an indecent increase in their budget while the poor cannot feed themselves anymore, other men in uniforma who pocket money from the illegal lottery (money that previously went to students nationwide), the peoplee with old money who became rich by keeping an abundant number of poor and who prevented them from getting a decent education, the mafia in the sex trade and in the industry who need desperate people. goin short by not showing up in parliament, the Democrat party showed their real face. We knew that alreay however, when Chuan refused to honor the commitments of the Chavalit government on paying people in izan who got displaced by the Pak moon dam.

The police action might have been disorganized, but if people attack the police and throw teargas cannisters in police stations, if the blcok the people's representatives from voting, they commit the most serious of offenses in a democracy. In the US, Europe, or Japan, these people would end up in jail for a very very long time.

[JoeInSurin]

There certainly does seem to be an inordinate amount of blood-letting with this, Somchai's "soft approach", compared to other tear-gassing episodes...

From the picture it would appear that those shooting gas cannisters are aiming low, possibly directly at the crowd; not at spaces between segments of the crowd. One would think that they should be 'lobbing' the cannisters using a high-angle approach to avoid directly striking anyone.

I strongly believe that the launching of these grenades has to be in an upright angel NOT horizontally, how else the many injuries plus the horrible loss of a leg be explained?

And then, WHO gave the order to aim low, or even at random into the crowd?

Well, does this make the declared "soft approach" a farce, or a lie?

Any estimates anyone?

I think that believing they should be launched in an upright angel might make God very mad.

[george]

PAD regain control in front of Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Protesters re-besieged Parliament and drove police out of the gate on the Phichai Road.

Protesters used batons to fight against police and drove them off.

Many of the protesters also inflated the tyres of police vehicles.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

[Bryan in Isaan]

.........

Also can both of you please refrain from personal attacks. Just respect each others opinions. I respect your opinion on the situation, and I ask you to respect mine. Keeps it nicer for everyone.

Waerth

Nothing personal Waerth. I respect your opinion. This whole situation is frustrating to me. I envisioned the PAD taking over the Parliament building grounds and building within a few days if they were not stopped.

The present situation is a mess, whichever side one might sympathize with. Neither side will give up and it might get a lot worse before it gets better.

Bryan

[george]

Wounds are not caused by tear gas, but powerful explosives : doctors

BANGKOK: -- Vachira Hospital's director Dr Wanchai Charoenchokthavee said the protesters's wounds were not likely to be from tear gas.

Wachira Hospital doctors are treating several protesters who were injured after police fired tear gas into the anti-government protesters at the Parliament on Monday morning.

Police insisted that they used only tear gas to disperse the protesters who blocked the Parliament so that Members of Parliament from attending Somchai government's policy address on Tuesday.

"Judging from wounds of the victims we saw in the operation room, we believed that the wounds did not cause by tear gas," Wanchai said.

The doctors said the wounds were caused by powerful explosives which can destroy tissues and bones.

Despite police insisted of using tear gas, several photos showed one protester lost his leg and another protester lost his foot.

Wanchai said a total of 47 people received treatment at the hospital. Most of them had wounds on the bodies.

Santi Larnwong, 22, said he suffered several wounds on his body but will continue joining protests against the government.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

[moo9]

PAD regain control in front of Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Protesters re-besieged Parliament and drove police out of the gate on the Phichai Road.

Protesters used batons to fight against police and drove them off.

Many of the protesters also inflated the tyres of police vehicles.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

Sounds not good...the start of a civil war?!

[h90]

It is amazing that powerful people seem to support the PAD. Yes the police have used forced. Yes the accidents happend because of the baricades set up by the PAD itself, and yes it is in any society unthinkable that a mob would prevent parliament from doing its duty. people who support the PAD are therefore either supporters of a dictatorship or they have a vested interest in preventing the democracy from working properly.

The people who stand to lose from a working democracy are: Chamlong (he should surrender his illegally occupied land and start paying taxes), Sonthi (with his billions in bath of unpaid bills and his startegic non performing loans), the military who have seen an indecent increase in their budget while the poor cannot feed themselves anymore, other men in uniforma who pocket money from the illegal lottery (money that previously went to students nationwide), the peoplee with old money who became rich by keeping an abundant number of poor and who prevented them from getting a decent education, the mafia in the sex trade and in the industry who need desperate people. goin short by not showing up in parliament, the Democrat party showed their real face. We knew that alreay however, when Chuan refused to honor the commitments of the Chavalit government on paying people in izan who got displaced by the Pak moon dam.

The police action might have been disorganized, but if people attack the police and throw teargas cannisters in police stations, if the blcok the people's representatives from voting, they commit the most serious of offenses in a democracy. In the US, Europe, or Japan, these people would end up in jail for a very very long time.

The current goverment ist not democratic as the Election Commission found out. Samak broke the constitution. PPP want to change the constitution to protect themself. Therefore the Peoples Alliance for Democracy, which includes complete different people, educated, uneducated, poor and rich, left and right wants to PROTECT Democracy against the criminals in power.

The Chavalit government was respondsible for the economic crash 1997 so Chuan could not give any free gifts for Isaan as Thailand was bankrupt.

[Bryan in Isaan]

PAD regain control in front of Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Protesters re-besieged Parliament and drove police out of the gate on the Phichai Road.

Protesters used batons to fight against police and drove them off.

Many of the protesters also inflated the tyres of police vehicles.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

Sounds not good...the start of a civil war?!

No. A coup.

[JoeInSurin]

PAD regain control in front of Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Protesters re-besieged Parliament and drove police out of the gate on the Phichai Road.

Protesters used batons to fight against police and drove them off.

Many of the protesters also inflated the tyres of police vehicles.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

Inflated the tires??

[h90]

PAD regain control in front of Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Protesters re-besieged Parliament and drove police out of the gate on the Phichai Road.

Protesters used batons to fight against police and drove them off.

Many of the protesters also inflated the tyres of police vehicles.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

Sounds not good...the start of a civil war?!

civil war won't last long, as either the Army would jump in or there will be an end like 1992.

[cmsally]

Let's face it even fireworks can kill you. A good friend of mine was killed when he set off a maroon. Something he was trained to do and had done hundreds of times before.

When you are faced with large numbers of protesters and an under trained police force then of course things are going to happen.

Really if those PAD leaders believe in what they screech about up on stage, then when the going gets tough they should be at the front. Who in their right mind would support a bunch of people that immediately dive for cover. The fact that they are not there fighting for what they believe in speaks volumes.

[Samuian]

PAD regain control in front of Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Protesters re-besieged Parliament and drove police out of the gate on the Phichai Road.

Protesters used batons to fight against police and drove them off.

Many of the protesters also inflated the tyres of police vehicles.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

Sounds not good...the start of a civil war?!

Call it civil disobedience or unrest for the time being - hope that t will NOT escalate as The Nation has it's front page change to:

Black October 2008already!

I think that believing they should be launched in an upright angel might make God very mad.

indeed pfarry pfannie! isn't it whohahahahaha! hope it made your day, mate!

Edited October 7, 2008 by Samuian

[sriracha john]

Wounds are not caused by tear gas, but powerful explosives : doctors

BANGKOK: -- Vachira Hospital's director Dr Wanchai Charoenchokthavee said the protesters's wounds were not likely to be from tear gas.

The doctors said the wounds were caused by powerful explosives which can destroy tissues and bones.

Despite police insisted of using tear gas, several photos showed one protester lost his leg and another protester lost his foot.

Wanchai said a total of 47 people received treatment at the hospital. Most of them had wounds on the bodies.

Thank you, Dr. Wanchai... you're brave for saying so.

[george]

Finance minister blocked from entering Parliament

Finance Minister Suchart Thadathamrongvej was blocked by protesters from entering Parliament at about 11 am.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

[animatic]

Clearly I'm out of kilter with the majority of opinions being expressed in this thread, but...

I don't consider a group of unarmed police using tear gas to disperse an unruly mob who were blocking elected members of Parliament from reaching their debating chamber an 'act of violence' as described by previous contributors, critical of Somchai.

One Aussie said Somchai's behaviour would never occur in Australia... neither would PAD's... The police would quickly and forcibly move a bunch of protestors on if they surround Parliament, erected barricades and prevented the government from going about its business. They'd use water canons, police with riot shields and batons and - as a last resort - tear gas, I'm sure. They'd also arrest the protestors, bundle them into buses and cart them off for processing. We saw them prepared to do this in Sydney during Apec last year.

The police should have acted in Bangkok sooner. Surely there is security around Parliament 24-seven, so why did no-one raise the alert and prevent the barricades being erected in the first place.

PPP is no white knight, but PAD is doing immeasurable damage to Thailand's economy by its lawlessness, illegal occupations and trespassing (airports, included). There are 800 international journalists and travel agents in Bangkok this week, all flown there by TAT and THAI - part of a Herculian effort to restore flagging tourism numbers to the country. No doubt they all turned on their hotel TVs this morning to scenes of anarchy and a strong - but justified - response by the police to restore law and order...

About time there was some balance. All these arm chair pundits giving their opinion sledging the Government for finally doing something that would have happened long ago in their own country.

What other country would allow a rabble to take over its Government House, close its airports and damage its economy in such a manner?

A long overdue stance by the ELECTED Government.

The ministers of Parlement are elected by the people.

After that they make a coalition and choise amongst themselves

who will ACTUALLY form a government. The people have NO SAY at that point.

The government is elected by Ministers, not the people.

The fact that Thaksin can even THINK of vetting the cabinet list as he did,

shows just how broken this 'elected, government is.

If the controlling party is about to be dissolved for electoral FRAUD,

it greatly diminishes their elected status.

Thailand is only waitin for the courts to finsh dotting the I's an crossing the T's

and PPP is toast, as TRT was. So to allow a group with a CLEARLY diminished mandate

to be allowed to re-write the constitution is a clearly unacceptable solution.

PAD may be over stepping greatly, but their reasons for doing it are more than sound.

Though Somchais people were installed by some mechanism vaguely recalling elected democracy,

it in effect and functioning it is not even close. And to support it is to support

what is WRONG with the governing system of the country.

NOT SUPPORTING SOME NOTIONAL 'DEMOCRACY FOR ALL'.

[RenzoInOz]

This from an article just posted on the Bangkok Post website:

When asked about the cause of a male protester, who has lost his leg during the riot, Pol Maj Gen Amnuay said the man could have stepped on barbed wire around the Parliament.

Just what was the barbed wire constructed of that ripped a man's leg clean off??

Unhelpful 'explanations' like that are sure to further inflame the situation by suggesting a cover-up...

[lordofdelusion]

Army Chief monitors the anti-riot measures

Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda has called an urgent meeting of the five top Army generals to closely monitor the anti-riot operations. He is also meeting with top commanders of three wings of the armed forces.

Anupong is assessing the situation, but has not drawn conclusion on the police action.

It is expected that the military will issue a statement in the afternoon.

The Nation / 2008-10-07

Maybe a little off track, but to state an obvious truth....here goes the high season and with it, what's left of the Thai economy. Pity for the average Thai.

[sriracha john]

He needs to borrow this family heirloom...

PM refuses to answer questions

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat made no comments on policy announcement and PAD's seizure of Parliament's compound.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat arrived at Parliament at approximately 9:50 am this morning (October 7). He refused to answer questions regarding whether government's policy declaration would take place and solutions to the People Alliance's for Democracy (PAD) protesting and seizure of Parliament's compound.

- ThaiNews / 2008-10-07

[hammered]

This from an article just posted on the Bangkok Post website:

When asked about the cause of a male protester, who has lost his leg during the riot, Pol Maj Gen Amnuay said the man could have stepped on barbed wire around the Parliament.

Just what was the barbed wire constructed of that ripped a man's leg clean off??

Unhelpful 'explanations' like that are sure to further inflame the situation by suggesting a cover-up...

Exactly. The police should shut up spokepeople like this.

I do wonder the effect of a tear gas canister fired directly at someone. Maybe this could explain wounds although it would certainly cast the police training or police control in a very poor light. I wouldnt care to guess on the altrenatives if this explanation doesnt hold water.

[animatic]

Let's face it even fireworks can kill you. A good friend of mine was killed when he set off a maroon. Something he was trained to do and had done hundreds of times before.

When you are faced with large numbers of protesters and an under trained police force then of course things are going to happen.

Really if those PAD leaders believe in what they screech about up on stage, then when the going gets tough they should be at the front. Who in their right mind would support a bunch of people that immediately dive for cover. The fact that they are not there fighting for what they believe in speaks volumes.

Sally how many army's have you seen with the Generals in the front line?

It's been proved for milienia, cut off the head in battle and the body flounders,

so Generals ALWAYS stay back and observe and deal with the big picture.

So 'diving for cover' as you put it is a LOGICAL action for a leader,

if he wants to still lead after a skirmish. Soldiers have been known

to fall on their generals, to protect them from harm, at risk of their own lives.,

And who has been firing live explosive rounds;

as the ER DR. has said is the cause of many wounds?

There was tear gas used last month in front of a Police Station, no one lost a leg.

Why suddenly lost limbs????

Edited October 7, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

This from an article just posted on the Bangkok Post website:

When asked about the cause of a male protester, who has lost his leg during the riot, Pol Maj Gen Amnuay said the man could have stepped on barbed wire around the Parliament.

Just what was the barbed wire constructed of that ripped a man's leg clean off??

Unhelpful 'explanations' like that are sure to further inflame the situation by suggesting a cover-up...

Or suggests that the Pol Gen is a completely out of touch idiot.

[sriracha john]

SERC assures no power, water cut off

The Deputy Secretary-General of the State Enterprises Workers Relations Confederation (SERC) Umnat Plamee affirmed there would be no water or power outages, calling on the government to take responsibility for the events that transpired this morning at the Parliament building.

SERC Deputy Secretary-General Umnat Plamee denied this morning (October 7) reports that the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has called on employees under the SERC to abandon work and cut power and water services along with PAD's members joining in rallies.

Mr. Umnat said that the reports were a misunderstanding following the SERC's revealing that it would support PAD.

SERC Deputy Secretary-General assured that general public would not be affected by the situation as power and water would not be unduly cut off.

He stated however that the Parliament has an outstanding electricity bill that may result in a power outage for the building.

He also said that SERC would take swift action in response to the use of force against PAD protesters this morning.

Mr. Umnat said that Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat must take responsibility for the situation.

- ThaiNews / 2008-10-07

Edited October 7, 2008 by sriracha john

[WAERTH]

.........

Also can both of you please refrain from personal attacks. Just respect each others opinions. I respect your opinion on the situation, and I ask you to respect mine. Keeps it nicer for everyone.

Waerth

Nothing personal Waerth. I respect your opinion. This whole situation is frustrating to me. I envisioned the PAD taking over the Parliament building grounds and building within a few days if they were not stopped.

The present situation is a mess, whichever side one might sympathize with. Neither side will give up and it might get a lot worse before it gets better.

Bryan

I personally support neither side. If Somchai was smart he would have convened parliament elsewhere and ignored the protesters. The problem is both parties are wrong and I do not know whom I would want to "win" this latest battle. I thought things were going better with Samak gone and the courts doing their duty sorting this mess out. Unfortunately PPP wanted to change the constitution again ..... and the PAD moved in again because of that. This time it was the PPP provoking PAD. Next time the PAD will provoke PPP and it will go on and on and on and on.

I wish I knew a way out of this ...... farang government

Waerth

[0Mix1up]

Clearly I'm out of kilter with the majority of opinions being expressed in this thread, but...

I don't consider a group of unarmed police using tear gas to disperse an unruly mob who were blocking elected members of Parliament from reaching their debating chamber an 'act of violence' as described by previous contributors, critical of Somchai.

One Aussie said Somchai's behaviour would never occur in Australia... neither would PAD's... The police would quickly and forcibly move a bunch of protestors on if they surround Parliament, erected barricades and prevented the government from going about its business. They'd use water canons, police with riot shields and batons and - as a last resort - tear gas, I'm sure. They'd also arrest the protestors, bundle them into buses and cart them off for processing. We saw them prepared to do this in Sydney during Apec last year.

The police should have acted in Bangkok sooner. Surely there is security around Parliament 24-seven, so why did no-one raise the alert and prevent the barricades being erected in the first place.

PPP is no white knight, but PAD is doing immeasurable damage to Thailand's economy by its lawlessness, illegal occupations and trespassing (airports, included). There are 800 international journalists and travel agents in Bangkok this week, all flown there by TAT and THAI - part of a Herculian effort to restore flagging tourism numbers to the country. No doubt they all turned on their hotel TVs this morning to scenes of anarchy and a strong - but justified - response by the police to restore law and order...

In Australia, someone like Somchai and Thaksin and all the others would be since 20 years in the jail for corruption and other crimes, so he wouldn't be premier and no need for PAD blocking something.

ask the lowy family about that

[jts-khorat]

A seriously injured anti-government protester is attended to by medical personal after an explosion blew off his lower left leg during clashes with Thai police in front of parliament in Bangkok, Thailand, on Tuesday, Oct. 7, 2008.

Associated Press

Can somebody shed a light on how an explosion could have occurred when otherwise unarmed police shoots tear gas on a harmless (presumable also unarmed) group of protesters?