Unclear Roules For Retirement Vise Extension

[jbell]

Last Tuesday I have been to Mukdahan Immigration for my extension of the retirement visa.

Now I live in Thailand for 4 years. The first 2 extensions were made at BKK Imm. without any problems and rush.

The documents I had to give them were:

Passport and signed copies of every page.

Bank statements of my two accounts (more then 800,000.-) with signed copies of all pages of both bank books.

One Photo, 1900 Bath, completed TM7 Form.

Medical attest only the first time of extension.

Last year I went to Mukdahan and had some troubles. I gave them the same documents but they asked for additional ones:

I had to give them : Wifes Housepaper and copy, wifes ID Card and copy, original Bank books.

The lady there also forced my wife the following: for the next yaer renewal we have to bring translated and certified marriage papers. She could not explain wether in thai nor in english why we should bring this. Just bring it because it would be better.

My wife belived her and this year we had all this papers to present them, because it would be better.

But the staff there was still not satisfied with the given one kilogram of Forms, copies, passport, idcard, housepaper etc.

Additional we had to organise:

- Health certificate.

- Bank books update the same day, (the signed statemanet was from the day before and accepted). There was a new entry in the book about incoming money and this gave a endless talk because the statement did not show the same as the book.

- Copy all pages of both bank books again

- Draw and sign a picture of the location and the presentation of my wifes house.

- complete and sign an additional form (written in th & en) what states I am retired and earning of money is not allowed.

This form seems to be handmade by Mukdahan staff. (The same statemet is already given on TM7 form).

- Run to the Copy shop again, copy the receipt of the paid fee 1900.- sign it and give it to the staff.

Additional: all previous signed copies were stamped by the staff with a red text in th & en and I had to sign again all the sheets at the correct place where the text pointed to.

The stress is just gone and I just want present my experience.

Is that normal? I think not - it is chikane

jbell

[Lite Beer]

Last Tuesday I have been to Mukdahan Immigration for my extension of the retirement visa.

Now I live in Thailand for 4 years. The first 2 extensions were made at BKK Imm. without any problems and rush.

The documents I had to give them were:

Passport and signed copies of every page.

Bank statements of my two accounts (more then 800,000.-) with signed copies of all pages of both bank books.

One Photo, 1900 Bath, completed TM7 Form.

Medical attest only the first time of extension.

Last year I went to Mukdahan and had some troubles. I gave them the same documents but they asked for additional ones:

I had to give them : Wifes Housepaper and copy, wifes ID Card and copy, original Bank books.

The lady there also forced my wife the following: for the next yaer renewal we have to bring translated and certified marriage papers. She could not explain wether in thai nor in english why we should bring this. Just bring it because it would be better.

My wife belived her and this year we had all this papers to present them, because it would be better.

But the staff there was still not satisfied with the given one kilogram of Forms, copies, passport, idcard, housepaper etc.

Additional we had to organise:

- Health certificate.

- Bank books update the same day, (the signed statemanet was from the day before and accepted). There was a new entry in the book about incoming money and this gave a endless talk because the statement did not show the same as the book.

- Copy all pages of both bank books again

- Draw and sign a picture of the location and the presentation of my wifes house.

- complete and sign an additional form (written in th & en) what states I am retired and earning of money is not allowed.

This form seems to be handmade by Mukdahan staff. (The same statemet is already given on TM7 form).

- Run to the Copy shop again, copy the receipt of the paid fee 1900.- sign it and give it to the staff.

Additional: all previous signed copies were stamped by the staff with a red text in th & en and I had to sign again all the sheets at the correct place where the text pointed to.

The stress is just gone and I just want present my experience.

Is that normal? I think not - it is chikane

jbell

It sounds like they have not got a clue and are making it all up as they go along. You retirement extension is nothing to do with your wife.

[jbell]

Yes thats what I think too. It looks as they mix the retirement visa with the "supporting a Thai wife" visa.

Or they jsut have their own roules at mukdahan?

jbell

[olaus]

I have also newly visited Mukdahan Immigration.

You easily understand sitting there, that anything can happen. New rules may be born suddenly. Your whole life can change dramatically.

And You can not appeal. You can do nothing.

But it maybe will be corrected. Some people upset enough and with relations will complain at their embassies.

Some talking made between diplomats and one or two policeofficers will be replaced.

[jbell]

And You can not appeal. You can do nothing.

I do not agree completly. There are existent roules and I have also some rights here. All immigration staff should follow this existent roules.

jbell

[ubonjoe]

There is a way to make a complaint. The following link takes you to a page on immigration website and you can select the subject to be "file a complaint".

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...hp?page=comment

[jbell]

There is a way to make a complaint. ........

Thanks, done already this afternoon, waiting for replay now.

jbell

[Bengt]

It seems many immigration officies dont know their own rules and there is also a lot of missunderstanding compared to officies located in typical tourist areas whit high population of farangs..thoose officers have much better knowledge in english and have daily routines to handle papers like visa extensions based on retirement and so on so maybe its better to either go to suan Plu in Bkk or consult a lawyer to help you whit extension papers and they can also inform the immigration officers the real immigration law.

Maybe it will cost some more money but i think in the long term all immigration officers have to go back to school again and learn to know Thailand official immigration laws.

[ubonjoe]

Sorry Bengt but your advise will not work.

Bangkok immigration is turning people away unless they live in Bangkok.

You now have to go to the immigration office nearest your residence.

As far as a lawyer goes one is not needed except for special cases.

Edited October 27, 2008 by ubonjoe

[ubonjoe]

There is a way to make a complaint. ........

Thanks, done already this afternoon, waiting for replay now.

jbell

Great

Let us know what they say.

[olaus]

"There is a way to make a complaint. ".....

"Thanks, done already this afternoon, waiting for replay now."

jbell

Well done, Jbell!

Weddingpaper and adress-book for my wife were also requested at my visit. Next year I have to bring these documents to have a chanse to get extension. Probably I have to go to Bangkok to get the wedding-documents translated into english and authorized at the embassy.

Sorry to say, but I do not think, you will get any answer to your "complaint".

Certainly you can file a complaint. But it is not a facility to make a juridical appeal .

The main point must be to create a kind of suggestions box for comments and questions.

Probably handled by a young information officer.

[ubonjoe]

Weddingpaper and adress-book for my wife were also requested at my visit. Next year I have to bring these documents to have a chanse to get extension. Probably I have to go to Bangkok to get the wedding-documents translated into english and authorized at the embassy.

Sorry to say, but I do not think, you will get any answer to your "complaint".

Certainly you can file a complaint. But it is not a facility to make a juridical appeal .

I don't understand why you would need a translation for marriage papers and house book.

I would think that if they got enough complaints about one office they would check it out. Anyway it can't hurt to try sending a complaint.

The health certificate is the best to complain about because that requirement went away two years ago.

Also asking for marrigage documents is not required according to the police order.

In this case there is no appeal process of any kind.

[Gary A]

All the offices have their little quirks and make their own rules. The small office I go to still requires a doctor's certificate. Other than that, I have had no major problems. The time before last, the official gave me a hard time for my retirement extension. I am legally married to a Thai national so I picked up my documents and asked the official what I had to do to get the support visa. His attitude changed and I was told that the support visa was difficult. He then changed some of his own rules and gave me the retirement extension.

[ianh68]

Last Tuesday I have been to Mukdahan Immigration for my extension of the retirement visa.

Now I live in Thailand for 4 years. The first 2 extensions were made at BKK Imm. without any problems and rush.

The documents I had to give them were:

Passport and signed copies of every page.

Bank statements of my two accounts (more then 800,000.-) with signed copies of all pages of both bank books.

One Photo, 1900 Bath, completed TM7 Form.

Medical attest only the first time of extension.

jbell

Was yours an "O" or "OA" retirement visa? The medical note is news to me. I have an "OA" retirement visa due for its first extension next year.

[thaihome]

How good is your Thai? How good is your wife’s English? It could be that there was an intial misunderstanding between your wife and the immigration person and you actually ended up requesting an extension based on being married to a Thai and not retirement. Being a small upcountry office they are probably much more used to doing marriage extensions and not retirements. I doubt here is much you can do about it at this point as it is unlikely that immigration or your wife will be willing to admit the misunderstanding at this point.

TH

[davyboy]

You will need to show your marriage papers and supply a copy if your 800,000 baht is in a joint account with your wife!

[Lite Beer]

You will need to show your marriage papers and supply a copy if your 800,000 baht is in a joint account with your wife!

Then it is reported that you will need 1,600,000 in the acc. as only half of it is yours.

[fishhooks]

My initial Retirement Extension was at Korat Immigration February this year.

They were great and have a good name for being humane.

Hoping they maintain that image in a few months.

[ubonjoe]

Was yours an "O" or "OA" retirement visa? The medical note is news to me. I have an "OA" retirement visa due for its first extension next year.

It does not matter whether it's an O or OA visa that is being extended. A medical certificate has not been required for over two years when the newest police order went into effect.

See page 10 clause 7.21 of police order for retirement extension requirements.

Link to police order: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

Note: Ignore date in link they did not update it when new police order came out.

Edited October 29, 2008 by ubonjoe

[ubonjoe]

You will need to show your marriage papers and supply a copy if your 800,000 baht is in a joint account with your wife!

Then it is reported that you will need 1,600,000 in the acc. as only half of it is yours.

Also it has been reported that some offices will not accept a joint account at all.

TIT !

Edited October 29, 2008 by ubonjoe

[davyboy]

You will need to show your marriage papers and supply a copy if your 800,000 baht is in a joint account with your wife!

Then it is reported that you will need 1,600,000 in the acc. as only half of it is yours.

No Lite Beer, When I renew my retirement visa at BKK, I show only 800,000 baht in our joint acc and include a copy of our English marriage certificate, and that is what they say they require, I have never had a problem with it in 11 years!!

[Lite Beer]

You will need to show your marriage papers and supply a copy if your 800,000 baht is in a joint account with your wife!

Then it is reported that you will need 1,600,000 in the acc. as only half of it is yours.

No Lite Beer, When I renew my retirement visa at BKK, I show only 800,000 baht in our joint acc and include a copy of our English marriage certificate, and that is what they say they require, I have never had a problem with it in 11 years!!

You are lucky then as most offices will not accept this.

Just a point. If you have been doing this for 11 years shouldn't your financial requirement be less than 800,000 ?

Or did you just miss out.

(6) For an alien who entered

Thailand before October 21,

1998 and continuously allowed

to stay in the Kingdom as a

retiree, the following shall

apply:

(a) He/she must be 60 years of

age or over and has regular

income. His/her bank

account deposit shall not be

less than Baht 200,000 a

year and evidence of the

account deposit for the

previous 3 months must be

shown; or he/she has a

monthly income of not less

than Baht 20,000.

( If he/she is under 60 years

of age but not less than 55,

the alien shall have regular

income with a bank

account deposit of not less

than Baht 500,000 a year

and evidence of the

account deposit for the

previous 3 months must beshown, or he/she has a

monthly income of not less

than Baht 50,000

Edited October 29, 2008 by Lite Beer

[Gary A]

Was yours an "O" or "OA" retirement visa? The medical note is news to me. I have an "OA" retirement visa due for its first extension next year.

It does not matter whether it's an O or OA visa that is being extended. A medical certificate has not been required for over two years when the newest police order went into effect.

See page 10 clause 7.21 of police order for retirement extension requirements.

Link to police order: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

Note: Ignore date in link they did not update it when new police order came out.

You and I both know the medical certificate is no longer needed. So what do you do when the immigration office insists they need one?

[ubonjoe]

You and I both know the medical certificate is no longer needed. So what do you do when the immigration office insists they need one?

Print out the Thai version of act and with some help highlight 7.21 and politely show it to them.

Link to Thai version of act: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606.pdf

[davyboy]

You will need to show your marriage papers and supply a copy if your 800,000 baht is in a joint account with your wife!

Then it is reported that you will need 1,600,000 in the acc. as only half of it is yours.

No Lite Beer, When I renew my retirement visa at BKK, I show only 800,000 baht in our joint acc and include a copy of our English marriage certificate, and that is what they say they require, I have never had a problem with it in 11 years!!

You are lucky then as most offices will not accept this.

Just a point. If you have been doing this for 11 years shouldn't your financial requirement be less than 800,000 ?

Or did you just miss out.

(6) For an alien who entered

Thailand before October 21,

1998 and continuously allowed

to stay in the Kingdom as a

retiree, the following shall

apply:

(a) He/she must be 60 years of

age or over and has regular

income. His/her bank

account deposit shall not be

less than Baht 200,000 a

year and evidence of the

account deposit for the

previous 3 months must be

shown; or he/she has a

monthly income of not less

than Baht 20,000.

( If he/she is under 60 years

of age but not less than 55,

the alien shall have regular

income with a bank

account deposit of not less

than Baht 500,000 a year

and evidence of the

account deposit for the

previous 3 months must beshown, or he/she has a

monthly income of not less

than Baht 50,000

Lite Beer, I was here before that date, but on a marriage visa, but I changed to a retirement visa only 5 years ago only because I had to visit BKK twice, as with a retirement visa only one visit!!!

Also at that time I did not qualify fof retirement as I was only in my early 50's.

Good to talk to you, thanks!

[jbell]

Oh, a lot of replays.

My short answer:

1. I asked for an extension based on retirement. It was written this way on the form TM7. I had also to sign an additional form what states again my extension is based on retirement. No misanderstanding in this case.

2. I can speak english enough to handle such problems. But it was like at many other places, as soon as they see my wife they don't talk again with me in english, only in thai with my wife. She speaks english and german (and thai of course). Again - misanderstanding was not the case. There was never the request for a visa "supporting Thai wife".

3. Why they asked for the marriage papers was never answered to us by the staff, wether in thai nor in english, and we asked more than once for the reason of it.

4. Most probably they don't follow the actual roules and in my case they mixed some different roules together.

5. My wife and me searched at the immigration site for documents stating roules. We compared the english text with the thai text of many documents. The text is not always the same. Everybody can see this also without understanding thai because in some thai explanations are more numbered lines available then in the english version.

Example: "Alien supporting Thai wife". The thai version shows at 5. an required account with 400,000.-

The english version does not have point 5.

6. Thats why I choosed my post title "unclear roules".

7. Where can we read the valid roules in english?

davyboy wrote" good to talk to you". I say the same. Thanks for all replays.

jbell

[Lite Beer]

The rules in English.

7.21 In the case of a

retiree: Permission

will be granted for a

period of not more

than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a

temporary visa (NON-IM); and

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age

or over; and

(3) Proof of income of not less than

Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in

Thailand of not less than Baht

800,000 as shown in bank

account transactions for the

past 3 months; or

(5) Annual income plus bank

account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the

filing date of application

[jbell]

Thanks, very clear, I was prepared this way at mukdahan office.

jbell.

[angsila]

I listened to all you "experts" that can read and quote the regulations that a medical certification is no longer required when I went for my annual visa extended two years ago at Siracha. When they said I need a medical certificate I told them that it was no longer required. They said they are aware of what the regulation requires and that they have the right to request additional information and they want a medical certificate. Now, whether they have the right to request additional information or not under Thai law,I don't know and I don't think any of you do either. So I think the prudent thing to do is just ask the immigration office what is required in advance.

[Lite Beer]

I listened to all you "experts" that can read and quote the regulations that a medical certification is no longer required when I went for my annual visa extended two years ago at Siracha. When they said I need a medical certificate I told them that it was no longer required. They said they are aware of what the regulation requires and that they have the right to request additional information and they want a medical certificate. Now, whether they have the right to request additional information or not under Thai law,I don't know and I don't think any of you do either. So I think the prudent thing to do is just ask the immigration office what is required in advance.

That's good advise mate. And something I would always advise.

The problem is that when you go back the next day you might see someone else who will have a different idea on the rules.

It really is a nightmare as they do have the right to ask for anything they want.