0.14 percent of the populace. A HUGE number for ONE EVENING.

How many are there who are illegally sleeping in the Government House?

Yes clearly they (admin) are coralling everything into a smaller tent. No surprise - shows how scared they TV owners are, not to mention the corrupt Thai upper classes who spent generations ensuring they'd have a family member in every arm of the bureaucracy..til Thaksin came along.. Now they are REALLY freaked out! Look at the army trying to control thought and speech now through ISOC! Maybe the next slogan for Thailand should be "Thailand - don't think - Obey!" A friend of mine from Burma, now working overseas, said it was like deja vu - "Thailand is becoming Burma" - not tomorrow, but 5 or 10 years from now.

You claim to have been in Thailand awhile now ... don't you know any of its history?

'becoming Burma' ... lol

Koo, keep things in perspective - Thailand had three years of average growth (2002-2004) by the regional standards at that time. That's a big contrast with 1998-1999, but nothing out of the ordinary.

By 2005 Thailand was stuck again, the growth was unsustainable, it was all based on borrrowing for consumption and stock market rebound after the crisis, fundamental weaknesses haven't been addressed at all, and "dual track" strategy was proven to be a total flop.

Media and people have no problem switching sides back to Thaksin if it looks like he is making a comeback.

That's sad that they are controlled by someone.

If they deliver half of the news like what they are doing now (except NBT), many people won't understand the truth that PAD is wrong.

Why don't they interview those who are against PAD?

Who in there right mind would turn up for this party.I mean what has this particular thai PM ever done to warrant the effort for people to turn up???

I understand that the majority of the crowd were north easterners......90,000 x 500 baht + travel expenses + 90,000 lovely red tshirts.

You have 'issues' with northern or northeasterners? Are you or your GF better than them? Oh - wait - you're suggesting they came for the money, aren't you. You need to read up a bit more.

How about 30-baht health care, sleeping a nite or two up-country every week for several years? How about one-tambon-one-product? How about people like the guy and not the other rich thai-chins who's done SFA for anyone other than their own families and guanxi-connections? Was he in it for himself? You bet! Did he help the majority in the process when every other Thai-Chin politician completely ignored them? YOU BET (and remember they ARE ALL Thai-Chin - worthy of note - just to point out that it is not thai vs chinese at stake here)

I don't deny you your right to post .. but hope I've answered your questions.

It's not impossible to remove Thaksin from Thailand...

PAD success as temple statue is changed following protest at Banglamung Temple

Yesterday we reported on a PAD demonstration at the Banglamung Temple over a new Buddhist statue base which featured a sculpture of the former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The base was intended to celebrate the role of influential government figures and the PAD demonstrators were angry that the former Prime Minister, who is now in exile in UK, was featured.

They demanded that he be removed from the base within 7 days or further action would be taken. We can now report that on Thursday morning he was removed from the base to the delight of the local PAD supporters who thanked the temple and architect for their prompt action.

- Pattaya One News / 2008-10-30

And meanwhile, back at the ranch, the UDD came up with this

The difference being one is real and the other is imaginary.

Media and people have no problem switching sides back to Thaksin if it looks like he is making a comeback.

That's sad that they are controlled by someone.

If they deliver half of the news like what they are doing now (except NBT), many people won't understand the truth that PAD is wrong.

Why don't they interview those who are against PAD?

I think there is truth to both these posts.

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

i assume that your post is a send up

I could be wrong about the number 90,000 but surely a lot more than PAD.

Democrat party executives abruptly cancelled their latest regional meeting here yesterday after the pro-government Rak Chiang Mai 51 group blockaded the session venue,

http://www.bangkokpost.com/021108_News/02Nov2008_news07.php

What would our advisors to Democrat party make of that? They love to blame them for not campaigning hard enough in Thaksin strongholds.

The reality is that under Thaksn's "democracy" no other party is allowed to preach to his flock.

It's a democracy without political freedoms, and they call PAD fasctist. Duh.

I can say for certain that Thailand is no more or less corrupt this past 8 years than in the 10 years prior to Thaksin's emergence on the scent.

The trouble with loyal Thaksin supporters like you is your only defence for all the illegal activity and corruption that occured during Thaksin's reign is that it was no more or less corrupt than other periods - and that he is no more or less corrupt than other politicians.

Rather than supporting someone who you seem to be saying is the lesser of two evils, why don't you raise the bar out of the gutter and find someone to support who actually has a shread of honour, decency and integrity?

Additionally, the numbers seem to contradict grandpops assessment as Auditor-General Khunying Jaruwan accurately called Thaksin's level of corruption as "unprecedented" in the history of Thailand. Any number of the pending criminal cases reflect the billions of baht he was involved in.

Can anyone of the supporters of Thaksin show me anything regarding charity as he promised to do for Thailand with his money while away from home?

Yes clearly they (admin) are coralling everything into a smaller tent. No surprise - shows how scared they TV owners are, not to mention the corrupt Thai upper classes who spent generations ensuring they'd have a family member in every arm of the bureaucracy..til Thaksin came along.. Now they are REALLY freaked out! Look at the army trying to control thought and speech now through ISOC! Maybe the next slogan for Thailand should be "Thailand - don't think - Obey!" A friend of mine from Burma, now working overseas, said it was like deja vu - "Thailand is becoming Burma" - not tomorrow, but 5 or 10 years from now.

You claim to have been in Thailand awhile now ... don't you know any of its history?

'becoming Burma' ... lol

Yep, you're correct. How stupid of me. Burma was led to ruin by a left-wing coup. Now Thailand is being led to ruin by a right-wing coup - not the same at all - please accept my apology.

Come to think of it JD, maybe you're absolutely right! EUREKA - jdinasia!

Thailand needs a coup - just like the PAD want. Let's give them what they want - and everyone will be happy!!! A left-wing coup to bring back the proper balance to the people and sanity to what has become a crazy, crazy, place!

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

Unless you enjoy being the victim of racism how can you support a party who openly hate farang?

This is the first time I hear "hate farang". I didn't know. Why do they hate farangs?

Thaksin has no plan to seek royal pardon yet: spokesman

Pongthep Thepkanchana, a personal spokesman of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Sunday that Thaksin has no plan to seek a royal pardon yet.

Pongthep said Thaksin so far has no plan to submit a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a royal pardon for his conviction and two-year imprisonment in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Source: The Nation - 02 November 2008

backpedaling is Thaksin's forte'.... whether it's applying for political asylum... defending himself in court... or requesting a Royal Pardon... throw out a plan or intention onto the media and then when it gets slaughtered... backpedal and say it was misunderstood... honest mistake... etc.

Yes clearly they (admin) are coralling everything into a smaller tent. No surprise - shows how scared they TV owners are, not to mention the corrupt Thai upper classes who spent generations ensuring they'd have a family member in every arm of the bureaucracy..til Thaksin came along.. Now they are REALLY freaked out! Look at the army trying to control thought and speech now through ISOC! Maybe the next slogan for Thailand should be "Thailand - don't think - Obey!" A friend of mine from Burma, now working overseas, said it was like deja vu - "Thailand is becoming Burma" - not tomorrow, but 5 or 10 years from now.

The middle class was sick of Thaksin. If you say that there is no middle class in Thailand, you're very wrong. My family earns an income enough to pay for a modest house, modest japanese cars, a modest education for me through running their own small business. This isn't as impossible as you think.

With thaksin, you were ensured that every branch of government would have a Shinawatra in a high position.

In my experience with the upper class Chinese, they were mostly discontented at how it was impossible to say anything bad about him for fear of having the IRS equiv. knocking on your door. They were mad that he tried to control business operating hours, make fair business harder to practice, and they were angry that he would sue anyone who tried to speak out against him.

Many of these same people see that Thaksin did actually benefit the nation in ways. He improved road quality, privatized state industries where the employees were at liberty to act idly, and so on. Their biggest gripe was that he put his family members into high positions and built mega projects in order to reap profit for himself. They didn't like the fact that he was prone to outright lying to the press and public and that he'd grown enormously wealthy in his tenure as PM.

The 'Don't think - Obey' mentality didn't disappear with Thaksin. People seem to have forgotten the ICT and Ministry of Culture's attempts to get the masses to shut up and obey the existing nationalistic-borderline-fascist culture and societal structure. You must have forgotten how they worked hand in hand to control online gaming and shut down internet cafes instead of making the parents step up and assume responsibility for watching their kids. You must have forgotten all of the other pointless laws his bitches created in order to control his own kids, laws that were just forgotten except for at the end of the month or holidays.

Thaksin was a businessman. He knew how to get infrastructure projects up and running and he knew how to sprout development. The voters, however, didn't give him permission to skim money off of the top and sue everyone who opposed him.

He is a criminal who was finally convicted and should come back and serve time in the judicial system that he helped to perfectly corrupt.

Thaksin greets his supporters, calls for sympathy

<snipped>

He said he would like to conduct businesses abroad for a period of time and offer economic advice to poor countries.

Like maybe coaching Myanmar and Cambodia on ways to scam money from Thailand (for a hefty percentage of the scam of course).

So, what happens if by some miracle he somehow finagles a Royal Pardon (for this conviction) and makes another "triumphant" return to Thailand ?

Will he make another statement like the one he gave on 28 Feb 08:

"Thaksin Detained on Return to Thailand

Before boarding the plane in Hong Kong, Thaksin told reporters, "I believe in the Thai justice system, especially the court system. Normally in justice systems everywhere, a person is innocent until proved guilty.''

And what happens if he gets arrested (again), arraigned on some of the other outstanding charges (again) and let out on bail (again) ? Will he find new lawyers to try and bribe the judges with ?

And if they fail (and get thrown in jail themselves, again), will he again flee the country and make another statement like this on on 11 Aug 08:

"A handwritten statement from Thaksin said he fled because he could not expect justice in Thai courts. It came amid newspaper reports that he would seek asylum in Britain."

Remembering that all that took place while a government of his supporters were in charge, and the PAD hadn't started their current round of protests.

Would he sneak off with his tail between his legs (again), take a vacation and then seek a royal pardon (again) ?

Even with a pardon (unlikely at best), his return would still be greeted with protests, possibly even larger and more violent. I don't think the military would view his return very favourably either.

Given that he has been convicted by the highest court in the land, at a time when a government favourable to him was in power, why doesn't the UK boot him out ? He has no valid claim for asylum. He's a convicted criminal fleeing justice.

Sheesh, I've heard of people being denied entry into countries because they had a DUI (drunk driving) conviction years earlier (in their home country).

I wonder what the attitude would be (in the UK government), if he hadn't been the owner of a football club in the UK ?

a nice compilation of some of the backpedaling I just mentioned... he flip-flops so often and ends up, despite a legion of public relation experts and lawyers, as coming across like an incompetent charlatan...

Media and people have no problem switching sides back to Thaksin if it looks like he is making a comeback.

That's sad that they are controlled by someone.

If they deliver half of the news like what they are doing now (except NBT), many people won't understand the truth that PAD is wrong.

Why don't they interview those who are against PAD?

How many radio and TV channels are owned by the Gov't and the Military? Most!

But you think what?

Yes clearly they (admin) are coralling everything into a smaller tent. No surprise - shows how scared they TV owners are, not to mention the corrupt Thai upper classes who spent generations ensuring they'd have a family member in every arm of the bureaucracy..til Thaksin came along.. Now they are REALLY freaked out! Look at the army trying to control thought and speech now through ISOC! Maybe the next slogan for Thailand should be "Thailand - don't think - Obey!" A friend of mine from Burma, now working overseas, said it was like deja vu - "Thailand is becoming Burma" - not tomorrow, but 5 or 10 years from now.

You claim to have been in Thailand awhile now ... don't you know any of its history?

'becoming Burma' ... lol

Yep, you're correct. How stupid of me. Burma was led to ruin by a left-wing coup. Now Thailand is being led to ruin by a right-wing coup - not the same at all - please accept my apology.

Come to think of it JD, maybe you're absolutely right! EUREKA - jdinasia!

Thailand needs a coup - just like the PAD want. Let's give them what they want - and everyone will be happy!!! A left-wing coup to bring back the proper balance to the people and sanity to what has become a crazy, crazy, place!

LOL ... and again ... there's a coup?

and now you are calling for a coup?

again ... look at Thailand's history ... learn a bit from it.

Someone desperately need a coup so they can hold some key positions without going through elections, then they'll manage mei dai ruang (poorly?) again.

Media and people have no problem switching sides back to Thaksin if it looks like he is making a comeback.

That's sad that they are controlled by someone.

If they deliver half of the news like what they are doing now (except NBT), many people won't understand the truth that PAD is wrong.

Why don't they interview those who are against PAD?

How many radio and TV channels are owned by the Gov't and the Military? Most!

But you think what?

Think what?

Which channel delivers the truth? That was the channel being attacked by PAD.

Koo82 .... most Thais get the news from Gov't owned and controlled news sources .... not from ASTV and the other couple of not free news sources.

Koo82 .... most Thais get the news from Gov't owned and controlled news sources .... not from ASTV and the other couple of not free news sources.

Very dangerous that people listened to the ASTV for 2 years after Khun Thaksin went. They think Khun Thaksin was very ugly.

Koo82 .... most Thais get the news from Gov't owned and controlled news sources .... not from ASTV and the other couple of not free news sources.

Very dangerous that people listened to the ASTV for 2 years after Khun Thaksin went. They think Khun Thaksin was very ugly.

Dangerous that people get an opinion OTHER than that from the Gov't controlled and owned news sources? Yes, information can be dangerous!

Koo82 .... most Thais get the news from Gov't owned and controlled news sources .... not from ASTV and the other couple of not free news sources.

Very dangerous that people listened to the ASTV for 2 years after Khun Thaksin went. They think Khun Thaksin was very ugly.

Right, then they suddenly started hearing about things he didn't want them to hear.

He has done a fine job of controling Thai though for some time.

When that control wavered, so did HIS image.

Wonder what happened to his promise never to get involved in politics again?

I'm sure that, given the opportunity, he would (reluctantly) break his promise "for the good of the people" of course.

Maybe if he plays his cards right, spends a little more time in the UK stirring up trouble, he'll be able to return, get slapped on the wrist and let off for good behaviour and time served (meaning the time he was forced to spend away from his "beloved" Thailand. We know how Thais hate to be away from their country for too long).

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

Is this correct. Is there a protocol to be followed or legal pro forma?

Or are you surmising this is the way you'd expect to see a pardon application being submitted?

I have heard a discrete letter to the Privy Council is the correct protocol form for this.

It puts you on the list to be vetted for later royal birthday approval.

No other method would fit protocol requirements.

How warm and nice. I know of guys in this country (personally) who stole 200$ worth of stuff and got 3 years in prison. No pardons yet. Maybe they didn't know how to write a discrete letter or who to ask for the vetting procedure?

If any Mod deletes this they'd better delete the Animatic post too!

Why does it not surprise me you personally know thieves?

Well, I know you don't I?

No, you don't know me in any sense of the word .... and calling me a thief is a really really poor idea.

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

Is this correct. Is there a protocol to be followed or legal pro forma?

Or are you surmising this is the way you'd expect to see a pardon application being submitted?

I have heard a discrete letter to the Privy Council is the correct protocol form for this.

It puts you on the list to be vetted for later royal birthday approval.

No other method would fit protocol requirements.

How warm and nice. I know of guys in this country (personally) who stole 200$ worth of stuff and got 3 years in prison. No pardons yet. Maybe they didn't know how to write a discrete letter or who to ask for the vetting procedure?

If any Mod deletes this they'd better delete the Animatic post too!

Why does it not surprise me you personally know thieves?

Well, I know you don't I?

No, you don't know me in any sense of the word .... and calling me a thief is a really really poor idea.

I have shown no disrespect whatsoever.

It is public knowledge and in the newspapers

It is also a typical protocol procedure in most countries with this type of government.

Discretion being a big part of it, and something Thaksin abjured.

Your 'friend' sounds like he isn't a Jean Val Jean type, life in the Galleys for a loaf of bread.

His lawyer would be the one to advise him, or just knew there was no chance.

PS he didn't call you a thief,

he did say he wasn't suprised you knew one.

I know one, it's not hard to do.

Can we stop the bickering and stick to the topic please.

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

Exactly....was it really necessary to give the thread this title.??

I think we should let that lay. We don't want to have to prefix Thaksin with "The vile criminal despot robber barron country selling.." every time we utter his name do we? Nor the PAD supporters prefix Sonthi with "The devine righteous representative on earth of God, Buddha, Allah, Jehova .."

This is a sign of how polaised this debacle has become

True enough, but on another thread Animatic did condescend to call Sondhi ' a snake ' which was very liberal of him and much appreciated

Where can you get the idea that all or most anti-Thaksin people are

a ) pro PAD 100%

b ) Think of Sondhi as some sort of godhead figure.

c ) that any one expects him to head a government if PPP goes,

d ) that there is this unified PAD = all anti-Thaksin grouped together.

Sorry Charlie no sale doesn't exist, just a PPP boggieman to slam at.

It is more likely that many have finally woken up to the danger of Thaksins,

and so are not AGAINST PAD as a consequence, since they are actively

preventing Thaksin from coming back to take revenge.

The man is a dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator,

with a proven vengeful streak, and 76 billion reasons to not care

if people die top let him get his way.

He is not coming back, if he can, to act democratically, but to rule.

Defend him, and you defend the destruction of society in any image, but the one he chooses.

Eeeee oop chuck, sorry....I missed this riposte of yours earlier as I was rushing out for some seafood so I've only just noticed it.

Now lets see ...... from this I gather that :

a ) You are not pro Pad 100 %

b ) You don't think Sondhi is a Godhead ( just a means to an end ?? )

c ) That you don't think he'll ever lead a govournment ( phew )

d ) Er...a bit vague this...that not everyone who hates Thaksin likes PAD ??

Well, I'm glad to hear it !! As for the rest....well

a ) Not everyone who hates the PAD loves Thaksin

b ) A lot of people who don't trust Thaksin trust the PADs ideas even less.

c ) Not every anti PAD remark is a pro Thaksin one

d ) Seafood is good for you if you don't have to wait half an hour for it.

As for the dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator with a proven vengeful streak etc etc.......blimey....thats old Sondhi in one !!! GOAAAAAAAALLLL

P.S. My apologies for the smileys ??? I didn't put them there ???

Letter b space key then ) voila no smilies.

I won't dispute that Sondhi and Thaksin are two sides of a similar personality coin.

I got to say though that Thaksin lit the match first. He could have kept a valuable ally,

or created a vengeful enemy with skills. He did the latter. To his detriment.

Who was it said this great quote for those in power :

"Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."

Sondhi is 'Thaksinsteins Monster'!

He created this grotesque and it terrified the towns folk

who tore down Thaksin's castle and ran him off.

Ahhhh so....thanks for the tip... Wasted 5 minutes trying to bump them off !! ( smileys )

Well , I thought Thaksin was behind a lot of Sondhis debt being wiped off the slate so I think he tried to keep him as an ally but Sondhi was still left in a 200 million hole and felt his old buddy should have done more. Still, 1600 million.....better than a box of chocolates and a bunch of roses !!

Nice analogy with the monster thing....trouble is , now that Thaksins been run off, who's gonna put the monster and the monsters creation under wraps.

Something to sleep on zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz nighty night.

'I cannot return home' : ex-Thai PM

BANGKOK -- Exiled former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra denounced his opponents Saturday in a telephone address to 90,000 loyal supporters packed into a Bangkok sports stadium.

Speaking from an undisclosed location Thaksin thanked the crowd but told them he could not return to the kingdom from exile in Britain without a royal pardon after he was sentenced to two years in prison on corruption charges last month.

"I cannot return home because I was sentenced to two years’ imprisonment," he said, adding that the case against him would be valid for another decade.

Thaksin went on to verbally attack the generals who overthrew him in a September 2006 military coup, to wild cheers from the crowd.

"They have abused the legal process to get rid of me. I was overwhelmingly elected prime minister twice yet I was overthrown in a military coup, and survived an attempted assassination," he said.

"My family and I have been attacked, our assets have been forfeited and I have been sentenced to jail, but my problems cannot compare to those facing our country,” he said. “Nobody can bring me back to Thailand except royal mercy or the power of the people," he added. His address was not carried by any Thai television or radio channels.

Thaksin fled to Britain in early August following his wife’s conviction for tax evasion.

It was his first address to supporters since leaving the kingdom and being sentenced in absentia on October 21 to two years in jail for violating corruption laws. Several other corruption cases are outstanding against him.

Chaturon Chaisang, former leader of Thaksin’s now-disbanded Thai Rak Thai party, earlier took to the stadium’s stage to denounce the People’s Alliance for Democracy, who have been holding anti-government rallies since May.

“We will not compromise with PAD on principle, but there is no clash or confrontation with them today,” Chaturon told the cheering crowd.

Thai society is split between those who love or loathe Thaksin.

Fans of the twice-elected multi-millionaire, calling themselves the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), come mostly from the country’s majority rural poor and say they are upholding democracy.

His detractors, represented by the PAD, have occupied the grounds of the prime minister’s offices since August calling for the government to step down.

They claim the PPP, which was elected in December last year, is running the country on behalf of Thaksin, whom they accuse of corruption and nepotism.

- AFP / 2008-11-02