Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[Danton]

So now the circus is on at one spot only: Swamppy. How do you think it will end?

If you are asking me? I have lived here over 8 years in total and have a pretty good grasp on "Thai culture". Today that means nothing in relation to current events. I, like all the Thai people I know, and there are many, have no idea how this will end, as it is influenced by so many factors, many of which we read here, but mostly due to those few people who are really behind this protest, and the people who are pushing the anti protesters. If this is beyond Thai understanding, it is certainly beyond mine. Sorry.

Very true. Logic and common sense do not apply in this country.

I don't really care how it ends, I just want it to end.

[rainman]

Constitution Court Decision Might Not be Tomorrow

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 12/01/2008 05:30:00 PM

Matichon reports the head of the EC as stating that he doesn't expect the decision tomorrow. It might be 7-10 days, but notes that it is up to the Court.

Source: http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...03&catid=01

[bubba]

Call Mr. George.W.Bush, he loves the word terrorism!!

Someone please call the US Embassy and give them an anonymous tip that bin Laden is hiding among the PAD protesters at the airport. That should resolve the problem fairly quickly.

I think we heard you the first time you made this same inane comment when you posted it a couple of days ago. Still laughing at your own jokes?

[chrislarsson]

Small corruption is mostly eradicated in developed countries, but I am not sure if big corruption is. For instance, take the example of Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. It is quite well known that they were the sources that exposed the CIA operative, Valerie Plame, to revenge her husband's exposure of White House lies to justify the invasion of Iraq. How come they are not in jail, and not even any legal process ongoing? This is nothing but big corruption.

Uhhhhh, no. Scooter Libby was the actual source, and he was tried and convicted. See Wikipedia "United States v. Libby":

"United States of America v. I. Lewis Libby, also known as "Scooter Libby" (USA v. LIBBY, Case No. 1:2005-cr-00394-RBW) is the federal trial of former high-ranking George W. Bush administration official I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Libby served as assistant to President George W. Bush, chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, and assistant to the Vice President for national security affairs from 2001–2005. Libby resigned from his government positions hours after his indictment on October 28, 2005.

"Libby was indicted by a federal grand jury on five felony counts of making false statements to federal investigators, perjury for lying to a federal grand jury, and obstruction of justice for impeding the course of a federal grand jury investigation concerned with the possibly-illegal leaking by government officials of the classified identity of a covert agent of the CIA, Valerie E. Wilson (also known as "Valerie Plame"), the wife of former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV. Pursuant to the grand jury leak investigation, Libby was convicted on March 6, 2007, on four counts of perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements, and he was acquitted of one count of making false statements. He was sentenced to thirty months in prison and fined $250,000. "

I know lots of people would like to believe the US is corrupt like Thailand, but it just won't fly.

-Atlas

Libby was just the fall guy. Just like your quote says he was convicted of making false statements and obstruction of justice, NOT the leaking of the CIA operative.

I didn't argue that the US is as corrupt Thailand.

[jdinasia]

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Really because the video I saw of PAD shooting does not show any one shooting at them, attacking them... nope just PAD shooting...

LOL ... Cool! so you disregard all the reports about the events unless ...

So you're saying they were provoked.

Shooting back at someone is peaceful protest?

Oh dear.

Self-Defense is absolutely justified ... 'shooting back at someone' is self defense (in this case I hope they arrest the guys in that group and see if there is enough to put them on trial for assault with intent ...)

This does not change the fact that the PAD are peaceful and have shown great restraint. What is appalling though is the lack of condemnation on here about the grenade attacks, deaths caused by the police, etc!

[fudoshinanzan]

1. Is shooting at a TV van peaceful?

2. Is forcibly pushing a police officer into the back of a car against his will and driving off peaceful?

3. Is forcing police officers to flee a checkpoint by speeding up to it and getting out armed with weapons peaceful?

4. Were PAD members those who performed the above acts?

Yes or No answers only please. No marks will be awarded for showing working out. Thank you.

[rainman]

For anyone who wants to see what a PAD hostage taking looks like, photos courtesy of Matichon.co.th

Now someone come here and tell me these are not terrorists.

[fudoshinanzan]

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Really because the video I saw of PAD shooting does not show any one shooting at them, attacking them... nope just PAD shooting...

LOL ... Cool! so you disregard all the reports about the events unless ...

So you're saying they were provoked.

Shooting back at someone is peaceful protest?

Oh dear.

Self-Defense is absolutely justified ... 'shooting back at someone' is self defense (in this case I hope they arrest the guys in that group and see if there is enough to put them on trial for assault with intent ...)

This does not change the fact that the PAD are peaceful and have shown great restraint. What is appalling though is the lack of condemnation on here about the grenade attacks, deaths caused by the police, etc!

That's nice, but what about shooting at the TV van? Was that self-defence? Did they aggressively lean out of the window and threaten to film the PAD shooting at a TV van?

A violent, unprovoked action by members of the PAD. FACT.

Edited December 1, 2008 by fudoshinanzan

[jdinasia]

lol Rainman .. those look like thugs to me! They are not terrorists (feel better?) Please add the story in English to help explain those pics

[FatherF]

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Really because the video I saw of PAD shooting does not show any one shooting at them, attacking them... nope just PAD shooting...

LOL ... Cool! so you disregard all the reports about the events unless ...

So you're saying they were provoked.

Shooting back at someone is peaceful protest?

Oh dear.

Self-Defense is absolutely justified ... 'shooting back at someone' is self defense (in this case I hope they arrest the guys in that group and see if there is enough to put them on trial for assault with intent ...)

This does not change the fact that the PAD are peaceful and have shown great restraint. What is appalling though is the lack of condemnation on here about the grenade attacks, deaths caused by the police, etc!

Please remind me, who shot at the PAD guy? I seem to recall it was........................ er NOBODY shot at him!

FF

[fudoshinanzan]

Oh dear.

Coffin's ready. Nails just arrived.

jd's got stamina, I'll give him that, and a keen trolling instinct.

[rainman]

lol Rainman .. those look like thugs to me! They are not terrorists (feel better?) Please add the story in English to help explain those pics

You call them friends. I call them terrorists.

Here is the story:

http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...02&catid=01

Sorry, it's in Thai, but maybe you can ask Sondhi or Chamlong to translate it for you.

[clausewitz]

What about all the other violent events started by the PAD militia. eg

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30087406

Man injured in shooting with PAD guards

A man was shot and injured early Sunday after he and his friends drove to the Makkhawan Bridge and shouted abusive words at guards of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The guards claimed that the group started firing at them first but the five men told police that one of them simply raised their middle finger and shouted abusive words against the PAD guards and they chased after them and fired at them.

The injured man was identified as Jaroon Deetour, 22. He was shot once on his right shoulder and rushed to the Vajira Hospital.

Four other men in the car were taken into custody by police from Nangloeng Police station

They told police that they went to drink on a pub on Khao San Road and they got lost while returning home in Samut Prakan and Jaroon later drove to the Makkhawan Bridge and Jaroon lowed the window and raised his middle finger to the PAD guards.

No PAD guards were arrested.

The Nation

[chrislarsson]

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Really because the video I saw of PAD shooting does not show any one shooting at them, attacking them... nope just PAD shooting...

LOL ... Cool! so you disregard all the reports about the events unless ...

So you're saying they were provoked.

Shooting back at someone is peaceful protest?

Oh dear.

Self-Defense is absolutely justified ... 'shooting back at someone' is self defense (in this case I hope they arrest the guys in that group and see if there is enough to put them on trial for assault with intent ...)

This does not change the fact that the PAD are peaceful and have shown great restraint. What is appalling though is the lack of condemnation on here about the grenade attacks, deaths caused by the police, etc!

For gods sake, what PAD is doing will probably end up costing the Thai economy more than 50 billion dollars and push millions of Thai people into unemployment. And there will be nothing good coming out of this by the end, just more hatred and a more divided country.

[Tex79]

Now someone come here and tell me these are not terrorists.

It's all in the wording...maybe these are terrorists acting violently(in the photos) but it is wrong to stereo type all PAD supporters as wanting or intending to be violent

Edited December 1, 2008 by Tex79

[fudoshinanzan]

Now someone come here and tell me these are not terrorists.

It's all in the wording...maybe these are terrorist acting violently(in the photos) but it is wrong to stereo type all PAD supporters as wanting or intending to be violent

And similarly it's wrong to label the PAD as a group of peaceful protesters. Can't have it both ways.

[Tex79]

And similarly it's wrong to label the PAD as a group of peaceful protesters. Can't have it both ways.

But I would quite happily label the majority of PAD protesters as being peaceful...

It's all in the wording and I think that's very important

[hammered]

Why all the attempts at comparative studies of street violence. We know both the PAD and UDD us eit. They have both killed. They should both be condemned for that and the perpetrators taken to court. It also doesnt mean all the PAD or UDD are bad people. But a wrong by either is still a wrong.

[fudoshinanzan]

And similarly it's wrong to label the PAD as a group of peaceful protesters. Can't have it both ways.

But I would quite happily label the majority of PAD protesters as being peaceful...

It's all in the wording and I think that's very important

Definitely the overwhelming majority are being peaceful. I think any reasonable person will agree. Most have been staging a peaceful sit-in, but the PAD are not all just peaceful protesters. Some have committed acts of violence. All have inherently broken the law, but most have been peaceful.

[fudoshinanzan]

Why all the attempts at comparative studies of street violence. We know both the PAD and UDD us eit. They have both killed. They should both be condemned for that and the perpetrators taken to court. It also doesnt mean all the PAD or UDD are bad people. But a wrong by either is still a wrong.

Exactly! Both have those they can count on when they want to 'release the hounds' and both have done so quite often this year. Now, whether these thug elements are controlled or are just young, rogue fanatics is another matter. I suspect the former.

[marshbags]

PAD ends Government House occupation

The People's Alliance For Democracy Monday ended its occupation of the Government House.

Suchart Srisai, an official of the Dharma Army of the Santi Asoke Buddhist sect, announced on the stage inside Government House at 2 pm that the PAD would end it occupation of the complex.

He urged protesters to post for photos as souvenirs and pack their belongings and move to join their peers either at the Suvarnabhumi International Airport or the Don Mueng Airport.

The Nation

From a safety aspect this is welcomed news for those who care about not only ongoing exposure to violence but to hopefully put an end to the indiscrimate bombing that has been ongoing for some time now.

The cowardly attacks that have taken place and especially their timing to inflict human canrnage on those sleeping is well and trully beyond human comprehension.

As for those so called " respected members " who have and are consistantly calling for violence against the PAD.....

You bring disgrace and dishonour to our membership.

Thank god I for one do not have to associate with you in the flesh, socially, or otherwise as you are unworthy of being classed as good members and other such comments that have been made in your defences ect.

You are also unworthy to be called decent human beings / members of the human race........terrorist i keep observing in realtion to the PAD, god again knows what this makes you. ??????

I long holiday would have been forthcoming on the first such post any member has made or will make, i feel sure, would have recieved punishment under normal, less overwhelming situations.

The mods are continually stretched and therefore they escape censorship sometimes unfortunately

Sadly the thousands of guests that use our forum during this period, must be thinking we are a load of uncaring and insensitive members / ship.

If i may defend Thai Visa and assure you we are as stated disgusted with them and they do not in anyway represent the majority

IMHO as always

marshbags

Those who offer such posts should kindly refrain and stop doing it.

By the way i,m happy to say.....................

It,s just showing the PAD dismantling the stuff at Gov. house and tidying up and have strated or moved out already.

Unlike the pathetic excuse of a PM who keeps mumbling out his concerns for the Thai people and doing nothing, this has come to pass as stated out of genuine caring for those exposed to the threatened onslaught that is predicted to happen anytime soon by Thaksins Red Shirts

Edited December 1, 2008 by marshbags

[magisterludi]

this is a military coup disguised as a civilian coup. the only interesting question is why? what can be happening to thai power dynamics to justify this. one can only wonder.

[Tex79]

And similarly it's wrong to label the PAD as a group of peaceful protesters. Can't have it both ways.

But I would quite happily label the majority of PAD protesters as being peaceful...

It's all in the wording and I think that's very important

Definitely the overwhelming majority are being peaceful. I think any reasonable person will agree. Most have been staging a peaceful sit-in, but the PAD are not all just peaceful protesters. Some have committed acts of violence. All have inherently broken the law, but most have been peaceful.

Trying not to get of topic but just wanting to keep this in perspective by giving another real world comparision...lets say 3% of motorists drive like lunatics this does not mean we should label motorists in general as being lunitics...but we would tend to say that motorists on the whole are not lunatics.

[Tex79]

The cowardly attacks that have taken place and especially their timing to inflict human canrnage on those sleeping is well and trully beyond human comprehension.

As for those so called " respected members " who have and are consistantly calling for violence against the PAD.....

You bring disgrace and dishonour to our membership.

Agreed, no violence is ever justified unless it is an instantaneous reaction as a self defence...if you have had any time to think about what action you will take and your life is not immediatley in danger then violence is not justified...there are other ways to resolve things

Edited December 1, 2008 by Tex79

[onlooker]

I think Marshbags must be related to the new chief of police. Group hug and everything will work out fine and dandy.

In any other country in the world either the army or police would have used violence to prevent people, many armed with makeshift weapons taking over the country's main airport. Why is it wrong to expect the Thai authorities to have the balls to do the same?

[fudoshinanzan]

And similarly it's wrong to label the PAD as a group of peaceful protesters. Can't have it both ways.

But I would quite happily label the majority of PAD protesters as being peaceful...

It's all in the wording and I think that's very important

Definitely the overwhelming majority are being peaceful. I think any reasonable person will agree. Most have been staging a peaceful sit-in, but the PAD are not all just peaceful protesters. Some have committed acts of violence. All have inherently broken the law, but most have been peaceful.

Trying not to get of topic but just wanting to keep this in perspective by giving another real world comparision...lets say 3% of motorists drive like lunatics this does not mean we should label motorists in general as being lunitics...but we would tend to say that motorists on the whole are not lunatics.

Yep, which is why a justifiable sentence reads something like 'the PAD on the whole are not thugs'.

Although, I will say one thing, and it's silly really getting into this so deeply, but I'm here now. Drivers of cars are not breaking the law automatically by performing the act so the analogy doesn't quite fit. As I said, silly, but if there are more or less peaceful ways to protest then I would say breaking the law by deliberately overwhelming an international airport with a large group of people, knowing the knock-on effects of such an action, is at the less peaceful end of the scale. It's not quite the same as a handful of people in a public park. All taking part, the many peaceful and the few violent, are breaking the law, so I don't feel comfortable say 'the PAD are not thugs' without those phrases like 'on the whole' or 'mostly'. The peaceful protesters just sitting there weren't unaware of the problems they would cause by joining the protest and they weren't unaware they would be breaking the law. That is inherently slightly aggressive by the choice to do it, though the actual day to day behaviour of most protesters is anything but.

Phew!

Edited December 1, 2008 by fudoshinanzan

[Tex79]

I think Marshbags must be related to the new chief of police. Group hug and everything will work out fine and dandy.

In any other country in the world either the army or police would have used violence to prevent people, many armed with makeshift weapons taking over the country's main airport. Why is it wrong to expect the Thai authorities to have the balls to do the same?

A massive violent confrontation will not have any better outcome than trying to resolve this peacefully...unless you see huge number of dead or seriously injured as being the best way to deal with this situation

Edited December 1, 2008 by Tex79

[marshbags]

PARTY DISSOLUTION

Chaturon calls on PM to quit

By The Nation Mon, December 1, 2008 : Last updated 18:11 hours

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat should step down so a new government can be formed before the People Power Party is disbanded, banned Thai Rak Thai Party executive Chaturon Chaisang advised Monday.

"Action should be taken before the party is dissolved so MPs have the chance to regroup and the country's administration is not disrupted," he said.

Chaturon said it was a foregone conclusion that the Constitution Court would disband the PPP, though repercussions from the dissolution of this party would be worse than what happened after Thai Rak Thai was disbanded.

He called upon pro-government crowds to cancel their plan to rally outside the High Court today, saying that the demonstration might backfire and pave the way for a coup. The case will be brought to an end today, and the pro-government group wanted to protest against any unfavourable verdict.

In addition, he said, the Constitution had several provisions that could be manipulated to the pave way for a dictatorship, adding that some of the government's opponents, particularly the People's Alliance of Democracy, wanted to do just that.

He went on to say that he was against the idea of forming a national unity government because it would infringe upon the principles of democracy, because installing a non-elected government was against the Constitution.

Chaturon advised Somchai and the coalition leaders to preempt the dissolution and have a new government in place before the party is dissolved, adding that several PPP MPs were receptive to this idea.

With regards to speculation that Privy Councillor Palakorn Suwannarat might be made the prime minister of a non-elected government, he said disagreed with any attempts to tamper with the electoral process.

Unquote

THis may help relieve the situation as far as the PAD are concerned, providing the opposition allow them to do so without retaliating for what would be in effect a wasted cause under the circumstances.

marshbags

Edited December 1, 2008 by marshbags

[permanent_disorder]

Could you perhaps contribute something constructive like, in what respects is the Asian Commission for Human Rights wrong?

...

For those that didn't see it ACHR ladle PAD as Fascists

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/11/...-qualities.html

You are welcome, however, are you suffering from an age related illness? I noted factual information, it is for others to evaluate, not for, unlike some, I to insist upon a related construct. I do note however, that many, but not ACHR, take the view that the '97 constitution was a major component in creating the authoritarian democracy and its associated strictures. Does that make them 'wrong', not by default, but it might, in a questioning mindset, raise questions.

Regards

A._Traveller, there you spot a problem in the detail what is also the main question here. what is the lesser evil?

first, you are right that '97 constitution had holes open for abuse, AHRC mentioned that, but still argues on begalf what was called the people constitution. and good, you know there is no final right or wrong. so let's skip that my constitution is better then your constitution battle and go directly to the questioning mindset.

but 2006 was the Military Junta. so the question was what is the lesser evil, for democrats and PAD was the army welcome, for other Non-Gov a No.. now one could say Democrats are power hungry too.

check out AHRC, please take a look at the thai section http://www.ahrc-thailand.net/index.php, Thak Bai, missing persons, war against drug, keep track on Generals etc. the archive online. the AHRC webseiten is maybe bit confusing and chaotic.

and if i read a text like this one: Institutionalised torture, extrajudicial killings & uneven application of law in Thailand /2005 and think how cool the '97. they a lawyer, they know how id was before '97

one point wasn't for me long time not clear, and that is the fear of a lot of PAD fans here, that thaksin maybe comeback. not my fault, i got only unqualified agitated. with words of reason explained i could understand the point. and i didn't visit all these somchai threads here they had been not entertaining. his brother in law in power, so what in poland we have twin brothers. i am not a bush basher or thaksin basher, and blame him for everything and i have zero interesset to defend thaksin. but in the last week and when that youtube video was up, the forum language turned surreal and gaga. sniper, butcher apocalypse. that must have been for a couple of poster here a devil epiphany.

i was never ever proThaksin, i still have the mind stream in my head on the day of tak-bai, all those dead, but the live in bangkok continue normal. i thought, so must it have been under hitler. normal live for normal people (but i grow in an other form off dictatorship, thats why massmovements piss me off)l sondhi, i never really like, iwas at sanuam luang, the just talk about that Thaksin is a capitalist. but i am not envy other peoples money, i like capitalism. but he wasn't that, a capitalist more some aristrokrat with an attidude when he talk to the press and his thaxsinomixmba.

but okay that PAD opposition "GET OUT, GET OUT" i tought this slogan chant only stupid skinheads.. an lot's of bar talk, thaksin take falang visa away. and i think is still most hated for new social order.

and suddenly the Army. only one or two days later i got in 7/11 a the-flower-soldier-revolution glossy mag. army-wanna-better-do, the advent of undercurrent. a camoflage Referendum - junta constitution. boring times. election and FLUP shit swims on the water surface. pi ka tsu bahh

the PAD year. right at the beginning was a talk with pro PAD cult not possible. questioning mindset -how you dare.

one year asphalt camping for just one man. get out! get out! get out! come back! come back! come back! ohhh he come back!"

But have a look what PAD core leader about the constitution '97 says: May 19, 2003

" Meanwhile, former Palang Dharma Party leader Chamlong Srimuang said that he saw many strong points in the 1997 Constitution. He said the Constitution provided many positive ways for the country to achieve success in political reform. The Constitution established many independent bodies to protect and guarantee people's rights, and provided for a democratic government elected by the people, he said. "It will take time for Thai politics to be in as good a position as we expected [from the 1997 charter]. However, I don't think that politics today are worse … The present government is not dictatorial, as many have said, since the people still have rights and the independent bodies still work," said Chamlong, who is an adviser to Thaksin. "

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/read.php?newsid=78907

always have a second voice

traveller, i like your answer above , the right way to re: "here. long text. human rights. speak!" attack. and you let an option for an answer open.

i got scared by the yellow people and that they don't understand. and better haeng out with those human right people. and yellows have gone wrong allready.

and in a realistic Thaksin threat scenarios .

for the claim Fascist i link to two old posts : Possession of the streets is the key to power in the state-for this reason the PAD marched and fought.

in PAD propaganda iconography is hitlerthaksin always the money jew and samak the Untermensch.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/PAD-Democrac...t&p=2229916

[FatherF]

I am not sure that any good will arise from this on-going idiocy, however, at least here on T.V. people from all sides are doing something that those in power (or trying to be) have not done!!!!. We are TALKING and, in a lot of cases either agreeing to differ, or accepting some degree of liability, WOW! almost sounds like a democracy! Now, if we can just get this message to ............................................................

FF