Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[shawndoc]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Joke? Sarcasm?

[german73]

WOW its really amazing to see how a civilized country such as Thailand slip down into Anarchy,not driven by the uneducated masses' but by the urban elite....

[onlooker]

All this is happening because of one man. I have never fully understood the extreme hatred against Thaksin. Was Thaksin really so bad that it is worth the risk setting back the nation for decades to block his return?

I have compiled a list of achievements and policies during his term, and tried my best to reamin balanced. The first points are mainly positive, and the latter ones negative. Feel free to comment! My intent is only gain a better understanding of the situation.

1. Economic Facts and Statistics

The GDP grew from THB 4.9 trillion at the end of 2001 to THB 7.1 trillion at the end of 2006

Thailand repaid its debts to the International Monetary Fund 2 years ahead of schedule.

Public sector debt fell from 57% of GDP in January 2001 to 41% in September 2006

Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006

The economy in the Northeast, rose 40 per cent while nation-wide poverty fell from 21.3 per cent to 11.3 per cent.

2. Introduced subsidized universal health care and low-cost universal access to anti-retroviral HIV medication (ARVs).

This policy is criticized as being populist. MedicAid was introduced in America (1965) when its economy was on a similar level as Thailand. Seems to me like a fair and sensible policy.

3. Introduced low-interest agricultural loans to villages

This policy was also criticized as being populist. However, Muhammad Yunus from Bangladesh received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006 for giving this kind of microloans to poor people in 2006.

It is also accused by some as vote-buying. If this is vote-buying, then everything is vote-buying. There is no policy that will not benefit some group in the society more than another.

4. Introduced the "One District, One Scholarship" program which provided one student from a low-income family in each district with a scholarship to study overseas.

But apart from that what did Thaksin ever do to help the country?

[bino]

AOT chief to seek permission to fly 88 empty commercial planes from Suvarnabhumi

Serirat Prasutanond, president of Airports of Thailand Plc, said Sunday that he will seek permission from the People's Alliance for Democracy again Sunday to retrieve 88 commercial planes left unattended at the Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

------------------------------

permission?? un-fuc_king-believable. so much for the arguments that "the PAD didn't close down the airport, they merely just assembled". and now they're going to try to take over the sea ports?

i'm sorry guys, but i think it's safe to say this is terrorist activity at this point. you can't convince me otherwise now. i understand what the PAD is trying to accomplish but they're fuc_king their own country over.

I agree- un-fuc_king-believable.

The PAD claims that they have never stopped the airport from operating, but now they must give permission for aircraft movements?

Are all of these 88 airplanes Thai Airways / Thai carriers? Are there any foreign national airplanes on the ground? Anyone know? An aircraft on the ground isn't making any money, and in fact would be costing the carrier a small fortune.

A foreign owned aircraft being held hostage by the PAD could turn into a major international incident. I can easily imagine the USA "sending in the Marines" to reclaim their property.

[rainman]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Joke? Sarcasm?

Corruption was lower after Thaksin left office than when he entered office. What do you call that?

[Insight]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Joke? Sarcasm?

Corruption was lower after Thaksin left office than when he entered office. What do you call that?

Are you trying to get a rise out of people here?

[rainman]

All this is happening because of one man. I have never fully understood the extreme hatred against Thaksin. Was Thaksin really so bad that it is worth the risk setting back the nation for decades to block his return?

I have compiled a list of achievements and policies during his term, and tried my best to reamin balanced. The first points are mainly positive, and the latter ones negative. Feel free to comment! My intent is only gain a better understanding of the situation.

1. Economic Facts and Statistics

The GDP grew from THB 4.9 trillion at the end of 2001 to THB 7.1 trillion at the end of 2006

Thailand repaid its debts to the International Monetary Fund 2 years ahead of schedule.

Public sector debt fell from 57% of GDP in January 2001 to 41% in September 2006

Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006

The economy in the Northeast, rose 40 per cent while nation-wide poverty fell from 21.3 per cent to 11.3 per cent.

2. Introduced subsidized universal health care and low-cost universal access to anti-retroviral HIV medication (ARVs).

This policy is criticized as being populist. MedicAid was introduced in America (1965) when its economy was on a similar level as Thailand. Seems to me like a fair and sensible policy.

3. Introduced low-interest agricultural loans to villages

This policy was also criticized as being populist. However, Muhammad Yunus from Bangladesh received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006 for giving this kind of microloans to poor people in 2006.

It is also accused by some as vote-buying. If this is vote-buying, then everything is vote-buying. There is no policy that will not benefit some group in the society more than another.

4. Introduced the "One District, One Scholarship" program which provided one student from a low-income family in each district with a scholarship to study overseas.

But apart from that what did Thaksin ever do to help the country?

As far as I know, Sondhi and Chamlong did much less.

[KireB]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Thaksin fought corruption? The courts that operate under a democratically choosen constitution dont seem to think so.

[oneeyedmunstaruler]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Can you provide some evidence for that statement? I'm not challenging you, but if you have some history to back it up I'd like to hear it....

Evidence of what? That Sondhi and Chamlong are angry? It's not exactly rocket science to see that these guys don't care about the country and it's people. Otherwise they wouldn't ruin the economy and cause millions of job losses, which is what is happening right now. If the PPP is dissolved in a few days anyways, why step in and ruin the country a week before? Use your heads, people.

No, I was asking about the bribes accusation. Sondhi I don't know much about, but I think Chamlong has more scruples than that, though he is a real oddball character now. Sometimes I feel that PAD was started up with great intentions, and somewhere along the line if went sour.

[GlenOrd]

Someone explain me this:

- If the PPP is dissolved on December 2nd anyways, why occupy the airports for a week if it leads to the same result?

- What happens if the PPP is not dissolved on December 2nd? Will PAD continue?

The PPP will be dissoveld 100% on Tuesday ,and under Thai law the Judges desicion cannot be questioned ,the PPP will

be forced to accept and dissolve the party , funny how the PAD do not accet the descion agaist them to leave the airport

but want the PPP to accept the desicion against them , The PAD are hypocrites of the highest nature ,and have no respect for

any law , also the PAD agenda about the poor not being allowed to vote as they are not educated enougth , there is a word for that

it,s called RACISM, just as the world is trying to stop it ,these guys want to introduce it as democracy

To be fair to the PAD, It is not the supreme court that ordered PAD out. Hence they can still appeal, so they claim. PAD has filed an appeal last Friday. This buy them some times (I belive it is another 2 weeks, I am not sure).

The court that jude Thaksin is final. No more appeal.

But the wife don't have to go to jail YET. She can still appeal. Many people believe that she divoice her hubby, so that she can return to Thailand and appeal, and at the same time run of the next election (while appealling).

[geriatrickid]

Out of interst, any predictions as to the retaking of BKK? Is there a chance that the airport could be open by next Sunday? (I guess I'm looking for reassurance or something, anything. Sort of like faint hope.)

I don't care what side anyone is on, shutting down a national airport for over a week is plain retarded.

[bino]

"Gunning down people in the streets"??? That hyperbole evokes images of saber-wielding cavalry slaughtering the helpless mob in Dr. Zhivago, or Nazis cleaning out the Warsaw ghetto. You've been watching too many movies, my friend... Talk like this helps no one, either to understand what's actually taking place, or cultivate a climate that might lead to an intelligent discussion of solutions. It's a bit presumptuous to declare what isn't credible to you, and then declare what's "in your book"...

Apparently you missed the evidence. Last week's clash with yellow-arm-banded PAD people calculatedly pointing and shooting weapons directly into the melee in the street is there on YouTube for all to see. Only in your rebuttal did you take it to the extreme. You said it, I didn't, Mr. Hyperbole, er, Hawker.

Absolutely Hawker... even though shots were fired and the scene on Viphavadi Rangsit road was a tense one, nobody was "gunned down" and killed.

Toptuan has a habit / history of re-writing the news and blowing it out of proportion to suit his view or create controversy. He has done it again here.

[bonnylad]

Out of interst, any predictions as to the retaking of BKK? Is there a chance that the airport could be open by next Sunday? (I guess I'm looking for reassurance or something, anything. Sort of like faint hope.)

I don't care what side anyone is on, shutting down a national airport for over a week is plain retarded.

This is just turning out to be reality game show. SNAKES and PADDERS

The Lord said smile and be happy,things could be much worse... ...........BANG

[sezze]

Out of interst, any predictions as to the retaking of BKK? Is there a chance that the airport could be open by next Sunday? (I guess I'm looking for reassurance or something, anything. Sort of like faint hope.)

I don't care what side anyone is on, shutting down a national airport for over a week is plain retarded.

Euhm , yes there is a chance the airport is open by next sunday . However , don't count on it too much . It is 7 days away . If the airport comes free today , without a shitload of damage , yes it will be open . If it takes another 3 /4 days , even without damage , i wouldn't count on it anymore . Check your flight status from your company to see if they fly to a different airport in Thailand .

[jts-khorat]

AOT chief to seek permission to fly 88 empty commercial planes from Suvarnabhumi

Serirat Prasutanond, president of Airports of Thailand Plc, said Sunday that he will seek permission from the People's Alliance for Democracy again Sunday to retrieve 88 commercial planes left unattended at the Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

------------------------------

permission?? un-fuc_king-believable. so much for the arguments that "the PAD didn't close down the airport, they merely just assembled". and now they're going to try to take over the sea ports?

i'm sorry guys, but i think it's safe to say this is terrorist activity at this point. you can't convince me otherwise now. i understand what the PAD is trying to accomplish but they're fuc_king their own country over.

I agree- un-fuc_king-believable.

The PAD claims that they have never stopped the airport from operating, but now they must give permission for aircraft movements?

Are all of these 88 airplanes Thai Airways / Thai carriers? Are there any foreign national airplanes on the ground? Anyone know? An aircraft on the ground isn't making any money, and in fact would be costing the carrier a small fortune.

A foreign owned aircraft being held hostage by the PAD could turn into a major international incident. I can easily imagine the USA "sending in the Marines" to reclaim their property.

Not more unbelievable than the fact mentioned a little bit earlier that the average Thai does not even seem to care that he might be jobless in a few weeks time because of this. No outrage, no calls to end this, by Joe Average as far as I can see.

I am already waiting for the whining and fingerpointing coming afterwards (as it always does in this country), and I tell you, I will laugh in their faces. It is the 21st century, planning a day or two ahead is a survival skill even the Thais should have by now. If not, they get what they deserve.

[Tatsujin]

OK . . . where can I go on here and read the latest NEWS rather than all this back and forth, you are wrong, I am right rubbish flaming of each other?

Is there an area of this Forum that posts the actual latest real NEWS and DOESN'T allow all these comments so that I can keep up to date and form my OWN opinions, rather than having other people's rammed down my throat?

(Fingers crossed)

Tats

[hammered]

From the latest Abac Poll

75% embarrassed by local politcs

92% think the justice system can resolve the politcal problems

59% wont take sides

I guess that is a vote down for PAD and PPP and a big thumbs up for whatever the court decides and I would think those siting in the nice middle that they have created somewhat artificially will be smiling at this number.

[koosdeboer]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Can you provide some evidence for that statement? I'm not challenging you, but if you have some history to back it up I'd like to hear it....

Evidence of what? That Sondhi and Chamlong are angry? It's not exactly rocket science to see that these guys don't care about the country and it's people. Otherwise they wouldn't ruin the economy and cause millions of job losses, which is what is happening right now. If the PPP is dissolved in a few days anyways, why step in and ruin the country a week before? Use your heads, people.

Rainman do you really mean it? Do you really think that Taksin is not corrupt and that he wants to help the people? He does not want power and money? You don't think he does not give a shit if there is blood allover and the country goes down?

[tig28]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Joke? Sarcasm?

Corruption was lower after Thaksin left office than when he entered office. What do you call that?

Proof positive that the PPP continued his policies ---- obviously extremely effective !!

[JacknDanny]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Rainman, having seen posts of yours on other topics, you actually seem like a decent person. You certainly do not seem to be the type of person who trolls or makes statements to get responses.

I can only suspect that this last statement made by yourself is one made out of pure naivity.

Thaksin took corruption in this country to another level. This is well known by everyone who has been here for any amount of time. Sure he is not the only corrupt politician out there. Short of Chuan, they are all at it .But as I say, Thaksin took it to an unprecedented level.

[CockneyGit]

WOW its really amazing to see how a civilized country such as Thailand slip down into Anarchy,not driven by the uneducated masses' but by the urban elite....

Civilized...???

[snuggzzz]

In the UK, Thailand is featured at No.7 of the World's 20 most Dangerous Places..................in the Sunday Telegraph on-line

[Tigs]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Rainman, having seen posts of yours on other topics, you actually seem like a decent person. You certainly do not seem to be the type of person who trolls or makes statements to get responses.

I can only suspect that this last statement made by yourself is one made out of pure naivity.

Thaksin took corruption in this country to another level. This is well known by everyone who has been here for any amount of time. Sure he is not the only corrupt politician out there. Short of Chuan, they are all at it .But as I say, Thaksin took it to an unprecedented level.

True!

But the entire economy in Thailand improved drastically, as did the quality of lives for many many people, because Thailand benefitted from Thaskins ruthless business acumen. He made the country 3,5 Trillion and took a billion for himself. No worse than the payoffs to heads of industry. He turned Thailand in to a serious international investment prospect, which the last 5 days will see completely undone.

[Guest Reimar]

The PPP will be dissoveld 100% on Tuesday ,and under Thai law the Judges desicion cannot be questioned ,the PPP will

be forced to accept and dissolve the party , funny how the PAD do not accet the descion agaist them to leave the airport

but want the PPP to accept the desicion against them , The PAD are hypocrites of the highest nature ,and have no respect for

any law , also the PAD agenda about the poor not being allowed to vote as they are not educated enougth , there is a word for that

it,s called RACISM, just as the world is trying to stop it ,these guys want to introduce it as democracy

On Dec. 2. the hearing is the last chance for the Party Leader to voice their statements. The decision will be after that, maybe NOT on the same day.

According the Court Order against the PAD: that's different because that Court order was done by an Civil Court and there is an 15 days period for to appeal. The PAD did NOT need to follow that order immediatly and the PAD has announced that they will appeal against that order! Just as the aw told!

If you and others writing statements like you did, better get informed before and don't just repeat the rumors!

Cheers.

[Neeranam]

In the UK, Thailand is featured at No.7 of the World's 20 most Dangerous Places..................in the Sunday Telegraph on-line

What utter rubbish.

[digitele]

True!

But the entire economy in Thailand improved drastically, as did the quality of lives for many many people, because Thailand benefitted from Thaskins ruthless business acumen. He made the country 3,5 Trillion and took a billion for himself. No worse than the payoffs to heads of industry. He turned Thailand in to a serious international investment prospect, which the last 5 days will see completely undone.

Just like an effective CEO. Like it or not. The majority of the population have no qualms about it.

But, that pesky minority is making things much worse. Like a spoiled child that must get their way:

Regardless of the outcome / effect on others.

[Kerryd]

It's not rocket science people......

CUT OFF THE ELECTRIC AND WATER......!!!!!

Jesus H., how weak and pathetic is this Government / Police / Army??

You really don't know how things work in Thailand, do you ?

For starters, it's been reported for quite a while now, that the groups that control the water and electricity support the PAD.

Next, the 2 main groups that could do something about this (the army & police) have been constrained/restrained from taking action. If either group were to forcibly try and retake the airports now, it could lead to even more violence and spread well beyond Bangkok (i.e. the possibility of a civil war, especially if a lot of people are killed in the process).

So all you people that have been inconvenienced are going to have to put up with it for a little while longer.

[chrislarsson]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Rainman, having seen posts of yours on other topics, you actually seem like a decent person. You certainly do not seem to be the type of person who trolls or makes statements to get responses.

I can only suspect that this last statement made by yourself is one made out of pure naivity.

Thaksin took corruption in this country to another level. This is well known by everyone who has been here for any amount of time. Sure he is not the only corrupt politician out there. Short of Chuan, they are all at it .But as I say, Thaksin took it to an unprecedented level.

True!

But the entire economy in Thailand improved drastically, as did the quality of lives for many many people, because Thailand benefitted from Thaskins ruthless business acumen. He made the country 3,5 Trillion and took a billion for himself. No worse than the payoffs to heads of industry. He turned Thailand in to a serious international investment prospect, which the last 5 days will see completely undone.

I keep reading that Thaksin took corruption to unprecedented levels. But why is it so difficult to back it up with facts?

[rainman]

Rainman, having seen posts of yours on other topics, you actually seem like a decent person. You certainly do not seem to be the type of person who trolls or makes statements to get responses.

I can only suspect that this last statement made by yourself is one made out of pure naivity.

Thaksin took corruption in this country to another level. This is well known by everyone who has been here for any amount of time. Sure he is not the only corrupt politician out there. Short of Chuan, they are all at it .But as I say, Thaksin took it to an unprecedented level.

I never said Thaksin wasn't corrupt. He surely was, BUT ....here it comes:

- Under Thaksin, he stole money, but developed the country and brought it up to "international standards", so to say.

- Under Sondhi/Chamlong's chaos and anarchy, the country is falling back decades with millions of job losses and billions in damages.

Now you tell me, is it better for someone to steal money and do somehing? Or better for someone to steal money and ruin everything?

Thailand never had a choice of true Democracy or of a honest government.

Thailand has a choice between a government that steals and does something, or a government that steals and does nothing.

[ovenman]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Can you provide some evidence for that statement? I'm not challenging you, but if you have some history to back it up I'd like to hear it....

Evidence of what? That Sondhi and Chamlong are angry? It's not exactly rocket science to see that these guys don't care about the country and it's people. Otherwise they wouldn't ruin the economy and cause millions of job losses, which is what is happening right now. If the PPP is dissolved in a few days anyways, why step in and ruin the country a week before? Use your heads, people.

Rainman do you really mean it? Do you really think that Taksin is not corrupt and that he wants to help the people? He does not want power and money? You don't think he does not give a shit if there is blood allover and the country goes down?

Rainman just wants his mail.