Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[grandpops]

The situation is slowly escalating, and the core problem is a class conflict.

As is always the case with Thai culture, what you see on the surface is not necessarily the reality. Behind the gentle wais, or traditional Thai greeting, and friendly smiles has always lurked deep-rooted social contradictions. A dynamic, burgeoning urban middle class looks down on a huge, poor rural class which has been awakened by Thaksin Shinawatra's Peronist-style populism.

One of Asia's most vibrant intelligentsia and unfettered media co-exists with probably the world's most conservative and powerful monarchy. A fractious, corrupted political elite manipulating elections for its own gains co-exists with a military elite which has staged more coups than elections.

There is a game going on with the "last stand" of the anti-Thaksin forces holed up in the airport. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - once hugely popular with the rabidly anti-Thaksin urban class - has steadily lost support with its increasingly illegal and thuggish tactics which have badly affected the economy. The PAD wants to force the hand of the players - the military to launch a coup, or the government to resign.

http://news.inbangkok.org/?p=219

The elected government is pushing the military to take action against the PAD. The military is asking the government to resign and call new elections, which is an odd thing for an arm of a government to do. All the while, the emboldened PAD is fast becoming reminiscent of the proto-fascists in Germany and Italy before World War II.

I didn't highlight this. It's how most thinking people see this.

This is an ongoing revolution and the Fascist PAD are fighting a rearguard battle on behalf of a morally bankrupt Elitist group whose time is coming to an end.

Let the Bankok rich lose their money. Isaan and the North is poverty as usual, only this poverty is not as acute as it was pre Thaksin. The PAD pot must be nearly empty now as they are more and more desparate to provoke this coup.

Four straight election wins against all odds and all the might of the Junta Appointed Court with the Junta ammended constitution.

Army not fancying a war in the south and a major insurection in the North. Besides, the Government is still in the country and the worlds media, politicians and almost the entire north of Thailand are on their side. In any event if they coup, they will have no money in the coffers as the country is shafted now by their inaction.

The fight against Fascists must always be fought and if the sheep of the PAD want to be fodder for Sondhi, what is the rest of the country supposed to do?

<snip>

Edited November 30, 2008 by soundman
Comments based on race removed.

[LaoPo]

Thais embarrassed by politics: Abac Poll

"65.1 per cent said they would have less pride in the country, if the situation turns violent and intensifies. 92.3 per cent believed political problems can be solved by the justice system. 58.4 per cent said they will not take sides in politics."

-Bangkok Post; http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132394

LaoPo

[timonase]

Hello,

i have read through all the answers on various threads on this forum regarding the current situation and i did like this forum for a few years now ( visa advice, food, pub,business), but as since it is clearly not possible to say an uncensored truth on this forum, the discussions are pointless. The pieces are moving, the outcome is clear....only we are not allowed to talk about it here.

fair enough, tuesday and of course Friday will show us, what is been discussed everwhere else already.

Sorry not allowed to specify.

regards

Timo

Edited December 1, 2008 by Jai Dee
Royal reference deleted as per Forum Rules

[rainman]

Industry officials say loss is now 'incalculable'

..

Meanwhile, Pramong Suthiwong, chairman of Thailand's Board of Trade, yesterday urged the government to re-open Suvarnabhumi Airport as soon as possible because the damage from its closure is now "incalculable".

Dr Olarn Chaipravat, the deputy premier in charge of economic affairs, will today hold an urgent meeting with Pramon and other private sector executives to discuss the situation.

Leaders of the Thai Chamber of Commerce, Federation of Thai Industries, Thai Bankers Association, and Tourism Council of Thailand will also join the meeting.

The private sector said an extended closure of Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang airports would also severely damage the country's international reputation, while the recovery process will take more than one year.

Pornsilp Patcharinkul, a senior executive of the Board of Trade, said fresh food, orchids, electronics, jewellery and other exporters are badly hit by the airport closures with damage estimated to be around Bt3 billion per day.

Fresh fruit and vegetable exporters could not do their business because they needed to use cold storage facilities at Suvarnabhumi Airport, he said.

The private sector is not sure how long it would take to reopen the airports as a reopening will likely require certification from the international aviation body for safety reasons.

"Thai exporters will lose lots of business opportunities as buyers will turn to other countries. Unfortunately, this is happening during the peak export period as lots of orders are received in November and December," he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/01...cs_30089835.php

[henryalleman]

My wife just had a phone call from a friend who have satelite TV and she said that Channel 5 told that all stranded tourist will get 2000 baht a day from the government, can somebody confirm this?

[Johpa]

The airport is rapidly turning into a street market. To me it seems like most of these people don't have a better place to sleep at home so they come to live at the airport. Sleeping on streets and under bridges seems to be the norm for this scum.

I don't see scum. I see fairly typical Thai folks in their outdoor picnicking mode, but who happen to be in an airport instead of a park setting. You must not get out much in Thailand if you perceive these folks as being those who sleep in the streets. Now I am in total disagreement with these folks, and believe they are poorly educated urban dwellers who can not be trusted with a voting right and who are too easily manipulated by various megalomaniacs who happen to control large portions of the national media, but I do recognize that they are neither scum nor homeless.

[ijwelch]

I thought you were just a professional troll. You mean you actually have a business here?

Because I do too.. One that involves both tourism and shipping. Both operating just fine. We simply work with what is available, and allow the country which is gracious enough to have us as guests deal with things in its own way..

Reading through your posts over the last few days you actually say nothing. Your comments are more akin to a rather large wooden spoon trying to stir a pot... If I were you I would put just 50% of the effort you put into typing your toxic comments into working thorough these temporary issues and you might be surprised what you can achieve.

Does it annoy anyone else when foreigners do that? Or is it just me?

Get a bloody life man. Thailand is not being gracious in letting you stay here. Once you're worthless you're out. Without any grace.

[britmaveric]

Well brainwashed muppets - go picnic in the park, not the airport. Sorry their actions are of SCUM.

[grandpops]

Industry officials say loss is now 'incalculable'

..

Meanwhile, Pramong Suthiwong, chairman of Thailand's Board of Trade, yesterday urged the government to re-open Suvarnabhumi Airport as soon as possible because the damage from its closure is now "incalculable".

Dr Olarn Chaipravat, the deputy premier in charge of economic affairs, will today hold an urgent meeting with Pramon and other private sector executives to discuss the situation.

Leaders of the Thai Chamber of Commerce, Federation of Thai Industries, Thai Bankers Association, and Tourism Council of Thailand will also join the meeting.

The private sector said an extended closure of Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang airports would also severely damage the country's international reputation, while the recovery process will take more than one year.

Pornsilp Patcharinkul, a senior executive of the Board of Trade, said fresh food, orchids, electronics, jewellery and other exporters are badly hit by the airport closures with damage estimated to be around Bt3 billion per day.

Fresh fruit and vegetable exporters could not do their business because they needed to use cold storage facilities at Suvarnabhumi Airport, he said.

The private sector is not sure how long it would take to reopen the airports as a reopening will likely require certification from the international aviation body for safety reasons.

"Thai exporters will lose lots of business opportunities as buyers will turn to other countries. Unfortunately, this is happening during the peak export period as lots of orders are received in November and December," he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/01...cs_30089835.php

Absolutely no sympathy for them. They could have been more vocal against these fascists before because it is wrong.

Now they moan an wail only because they lose money, not because the People of Thailand are threatend with dictatorship and coups.

Just learn how to be poor. What about sufficiency? They are not about to die of hunger are they? They don't have to eat leaves, roots, mice, snakes, frogs and insects like they do in the north.... YET

Stand up and fight or accept your loses. Sondhi cares as much for Businesses as he does for poor dark skinned people and Democracy. They are finding this out now.

[henryalleman]

Transparency International Corruption index

If I remember correctly this index doesn't have tools to account for corruption done in Thaksin style.

Thaksin overhauled country's civil service and there were many positive results coming from that in terms of efficiency and less corruption at lower levels.

PAD is angry at what happened at the top, however.

If you think they are overreacting - consider that one excise tax deal has given his company over a hundred billion baht, enough to provide free education to the whole country for several years. Transparency Index wouldn't catch that because Thaksin was the PM, in their eyes he just legally issued a new law.

That is probably correct. There is a large difference between big and small corruption. Small corruption (e.g taking bribes) is the most visible and likely the kind of corruption that makes the largest impact in the transparency index. And Thaksin is mostly about big corruption.

Small corruption is mostly eradicated in developed countries, but I am not sure if big corruption is. For instance, take the example of Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. It is quite well known that they were the sources that exposed the CIA operative, Valerie Plame, to revenge her husband's exposure of White House lies to justify the invasion of Iraq. How come they are not in jail, and not even any legal process ongoing? This is nothing but big corruption.

Big corruption exist in almost every country, but in a democracy the perpetrators are punished and there political career is over, Helmuth Koll was the best example. And the convicted politician leaves in shame. And all people in his party will turn there back to him, just out of self defence.

It would be impossible that he still open a loud mouth.

[A_Traveller]

My wife just had a phone call from a friend who have satelite TV and she said that Channel 5 told that all stranded tourist will get 2000 baht a day from the government, can somebody confirm this?

Thread on this subject.

Regards

[grandpops]

PAD make more friends!

Asian Human Rights Commission:

The takeover of the main international airport in Bangkok by protestors going under the banner of the People's Alliance for Democracy is a watershed moment for democracy and the rule of law in Thailand. It follows some months of increasingly aggressive strategies to get the current government to resign and to block it from making amendments to the 2008 Constitution, which was prepared under the watch of the 2006 military coup leaders and their supporters and pushed through via a deeply flawed referendum.

Alliance members have since August gone from merely occupying spaces like roads and parks to occupying public buildings, in particular, the Government House. Organised armed "guards" have defended their positions both from opponents and from state security personnel. They have also illegally obtained and openly carried an array of manufactured and homemade weapons, including guns from caches that had reportedly been kept in the government premises. They have illegally detained other citizens. They have vandalised, destroyed and stolen public and private property. In the last day or two it has been reported that in addition to occupying the Suvarnabumi airport they have seized busses, and have refused to allow police into the airport to investigate explosions there during the night. They are now reportedly preparing for the latest phase in the "final battle", which is supposedly being instigated under codenames like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the cities on which the United States military dropped nuclear bombs at the close of World War Two.

The alliance has exhibited a number of features that from past lessons of Thailand and other countries around the world pose grave dangers to the future of the country's imperilled democracy. Of these, the following can be said.

1. They spring from a far-right ideology that has for decades driven successive military-bureaucratic administrations in Thailand, which dramatic changes to political and social life of the last two decades have increasingly threatened.

2. Their coordinated attacks and actions on the pretext of self-defence and national interest are designed to cause a widespread feeling of insecurity and uncertainty and allow reactionary elite forces to push Thailand back to a 1980s model of "half-sail" semi-elected government.

3. The alliance leaders have occupied the public space and forced people throughout Thailand to either take sides for or against them, or to opt out completely, thus alienating millions of people and denying them the opportunity to have a say on the key political and social questions of their time.

Some commentators and opponents of the alliance have described its agenda as fascist.

This is not an exaggeration

. Experience shows that the types of systemic changes and regimes that follow such movements, although they may not describe themselves as fascist, have fascist qualities. Indeed, successive dictatorships in Thailand's modern history appreciated, expressed and used many fascist symbols and policies, and the residue of these can be found in the language and behaviour of the alliance leaders today.

If these events are allowed to continue, and it is self-evident that they are being allowed, they will effectively undo everything that was done to build a culture of democratic rights and participation in public life in Thailand during the 1990s.

The damage that they are now in a position to effect will surpass anything of that caused by the ousted government of Thaksin Shinawatra, and could even provoke a greater disaster than the 2006 coup and scrapping of the 1997 Constitution

. Whatever institutional and legal gains were made in the last decade or two will be undone.

Already, the criminal justice system of Thailand has been reduced to an utter joke, its agencies and personnel either unable or unwilling to intervene effectively to protect public property and people's lives, or even prosecute wrongdoers

. That the security forces can carry out coups on the whimsy of generals and engage in battles over trifles with those of neighbouring countries but not responsibly protect the Government House or international airport is sheer farce. That government agencies have been forced to negotiate and cut their losses rather than insist that the law be enforced is dangerous folly. And that the senior judiciary, which through a succession of highly politicised judgments has played a major part in contributing to the current mess has nothing useful to contribute when lives are at stake and the country is in greatest need of intelligent guidance is altogether shameful.

Peaceful protest is not only a part of democratic process; it is integral to it. But the rallies and blockades in Bangkok of recent days, weeks and months have not been peaceful. Nor can they properly be called protests at all, as they are not merely demonstrations of a wish, but acts aimed at achieving goals at all costs. And the costs to Thailand have already been very high. They will get higher, and be felt in terms of the lives and liberties of all people in the country if they are not brought to an end. All people in Thailand have a right to oppose this ultra-conservative project for state dominance at their expense.

Edited November 30, 2008 by grandpops

[oceano]

The situation is slowly escalating, and the core problem is a class conflict.

As is always the case with Thai culture, what you see on the surface is not necessarily the reality. Behind the gentle wais, or traditional Thai greeting, and friendly smiles has always lurked deep-rooted social contradictions. A dynamic, burgeoning urban middle class looks down on a huge, poor rural class which has been awakened by Thaksin Shinawatra's Peronist-style populism.

One of Asia's most vibrant intelligentsia and unfettered media co-exists with probably the world's most conservative and powerful monarchy. A fractious, corrupted political elite manipulating elections for its own gains co-exists with a military elite which has staged more coups than elections.

There is a game going on with the "last stand" of the anti-Thaksin forces holed up in the airport. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - once hugely popular with the rabidly anti-Thaksin urban class - has steadily lost support with its increasingly illegal and thuggish tactics which have badly affected the economy. The PAD wants to force the hand of the players - the military to launch a coup, or the government to resign.

http://news.inbangkok.org/?p=219

The elected government is pushing the military to take action against the PAD. The military is asking the government to resign and call new elections, which is an odd thing for an arm of a government to do. All the while,

the emboldened PAD is fast becoming reminiscent of the proto-fascists in Germany and Italy before World War II

.

[/i]

Im Italian and you have no idea what you talkin about...live the story, if you dont know about in the book in your library....

I say again...when some people stop say studi things?

Go buy one beer and have fun in one gogo....

ciao

[fudoshinanzan]

I thought you were just a professional troll. You mean you actually have a business here?

Because I do too.. One that involves both tourism and shipping. Both operating just fine. We simply work with what is available, and allow the country which is gracious enough to have us as guests deal with things in its own way..

Reading through your posts over the last few days you actually say nothing. Your comments are more akin to a rather large wooden spoon trying to stir a pot... If I were you I would put just 50% of the effort you put into typing your toxic comments into working thorough these temporary issues and you might be surprised what you can achieve.

Does it annoy anyone else when foreigners do that? Or is it just me?

Get a bloody life man. Thailand is not being gracious in letting you stay here. Once you're worthless you're out. Without any grace.

Yes, that annoys me too. I don't feel I have to kiss anyone's ass because I'm living here. My stuff's in order, it's my right to stay here and live with my wife. I'll continue to live here as long as I'm enjoying it and it's where my wife and I want to be. I do enjoy living here, but don't feel I need to go overboard with all that 'guest' nonsense. I live here now and I stopped spending any time thinking of myself as a foreigner a long time ago. It's my country now too. I don't mean that in a cocky way, just that it's no longer my second home. I've a family and all manner of stuff to be busy with. Too busy to be thinking about being a foreigner or a guest. I'm just living my life like anyone else and I happen to be in Thailand.

Edited November 30, 2008 by fudoshinanzan

[h90]

My wife just had a phone call from a friend who have satelite TV and she said that Channel 5 told that all stranded tourist will get 2000 baht a day from the government, can somebody confirm this?

I only read that stranded tourists are asking for it and it seems no body knows about it. Might be the next corruption scandal, others sources report that the government does not hand out money, they pay the hotel room and that costs 2000 Baht per day. So not sure on that, fact is also that Tourists got left alone on Swampy airport and PAD feed them for free getting a lot positive feedback and recently an american on the stage who told them to fight for democracy.

[yadetout]

A THAI flight attendant finds the stand-off mind-boggling and says foreigners shouldn't suffer for our domestic problems

window.google_render_ad();

She has been working as a flight attendant of Thai Airways International (THAI) for 19 years. But A, her alias, has never seen herself in a crisis like this.

Throughout the 12-hour service at the Vibhavadi headquarters on Saturday, she encountered many passengers who were rushing to the counters with their personal reasons on why they should be allowed to board the first available flights.

"One passenger has a father who needs medication, which is not available in Thailand. One passenger had a son who suffers from bleeding. Though they are sent to hospitals, they still want to go home," A, whose flight was cancelled following the shutdown of Suvarnabhumi Airport, says.

Many passengers are ready to buy new tickets for available flights, despite knowing that they could only refund the old tickets at a discount.

Some ticketing officers have to teach attendants about flight re-routing and rescheduling, as more computers are installed to accommodate the enormous number of passengers.

'I almost cried'

"I almost cried seeing some staff feed others, as they had no time to leave the counters for meals," says A. "The mothers of some staff even cooked for us."

"You know, we have something we call 'THAI home-stay'. Some flight attendants brought passengers home. This happens particularly to backpackers who have no spare money for fancy hotel rooms," says A.

"Right now, 160,000 tourists have been stranded. But THAI has about 10 planes. Those planes could be used to transfer these tourists to nearest destinations like Laos, Singapore or Malaysia, from where they can find their flights home."

She informs that THAI had announced there would be 31 flights yesterday, but these include incoming flights. That means the number of passengers to board departure flights would be a few thousands.

"As a Thai citizen, I plead with the PAD to release the aircraft at Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang. I know they are protesting for a cause, but these foreign travellers do not deserve to suffer for our domestic problems," she says.

She urged the Royal Thai Air Force to supply its passenger aircraft, which includes C130 and an Airbus.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/01...al_30089826.php

[A_Traveller]

A short note to 'grandpops', the press release has already been placed into this thread, 03:00 30/11 page 20 even though it was published on 26 November.

Regards

[h90]

Transparency International Corruption index

If I remember correctly this index doesn't have tools to account for corruption done in Thaksin style.

Thaksin overhauled country's civil service and there were many positive results coming from that in terms of efficiency and less corruption at lower levels.

PAD is angry at what happened at the top, however.

If you think they are overreacting - consider that one excise tax deal has given his company over a hundred billion baht, enough to provide free education to the whole country for several years. Transparency Index wouldn't catch that because Thaksin was the PM, in their eyes he just legally issued a new law.

That is probably correct. There is a large difference between big and small corruption. Small corruption (e.g taking bribes) is the most visible and likely the kind of corruption that makes the largest impact in the transparency index. And Thaksin is mostly about big corruption.

Small corruption is mostly eradicated in developed countries, but I am not sure if big corruption is. For instance, take the example of Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. It is quite well known that they were the sources that exposed the CIA operative, Valerie Plame, to revenge her husband's exposure of White House lies to justify the invasion of Iraq. How come they are not in jail, and not even any legal process ongoing? This is nothing but big corruption.

Big corruption exist in almost every country, but in a democracy the perpetrators are punished and there political career is over, Helmuth Koll was the best example. And the convicted politician leaves in shame. And all people in his party will turn there back to him, just out of self defence.

It would be impossible that he still open a loud mouth.

Helmut Kohl

[naidal]

It will take decades to repair the damage

No more land of smile shame on you Thailand

[grandpops]

A short note to 'grandpops', the press release has already been placed into this thread, 03:00 30/11 page 20 even though it was published on 26 November.

Regards

Thanks for that I hadn't seen it as I have a life outside of Thai Visa!

Could you perhaps contribute something constructive like, in what respects is the Asian Commission for Human Rights wrong?

Is it now wrong because it is three days old? I really don't know what you are trying to say, so please be clearer or say nothing if you have nothing to contribute.

Seems to me that anything awkward for PAD attracts loads of pointless posts to push the original away incase it influences any sheep to stray from the PAD fold. IMHO

For those that didn't see it ACHR ladle PAD as Fascists

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/11/...-qualities.html

Edited November 30, 2008 by grandpops

[rainman]

"As a Thai citizen, I plead with the PAD to release the aircraft at Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang. I know they are protesting for a cause, but these foreign travellers do not deserve to suffer for our domestic problems," she says.

This flight attendant forgot about one thing in her plea. The PAD leaders don't care about Thais or Thailand.

[A_Traveller]

H90 & henryalleman for here review the CTX saga, and its lack of conclusion. By the by, Plus, and somewhat OT, the Plame affair was more about a prosecutor than truth. Her name was 'leaked' by Richard Armitage, deputy SecState inadvertently, and even though the Special prosecutor knew this he proceeded, leading to the trial against Lewis Scooter Libby, who was found guilty of obstruction of justice & perjury. His sentence was commuted by the President.

Regards

Edited November 30, 2008 by A_Traveller

[yadetout]

SHIPPING NOT GAINING FROM CLOSURES

By Sucheera Pinijparakarn, The Nation, Published on December 1, 2008

The shutdown of air-cargo services at Suvarnabhumi Airport will not benefit the shipping business, marine-transport operators say. The shipping operators said companies that exported products by air were not switching to shipping. Shipping firm Jutha Maritime's managing director, Chanet Phenjati, said products that were transported by ship must be unspoilable and heavy.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/01...ss_30089839.php

[RigPig]

The situation is slowly escalating, and the core problem is a class conflict.

As is always the case with Thai culture, what you see on the surface is not necessarily the reality. Behind the gentle wais, or traditional Thai greeting, and friendly smiles has always lurked deep-rooted social contradictions. A dynamic, burgeoning urban middle class looks down on a huge, poor rural class which has been awakened by Thaksin Shinawatra's Peronist-style populism.

There is a game going on with the "last stand" of the anti-Thaksin forces holed up in the airport. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - once hugely popular with the rabidly anti-Thaksin urban class - has steadily lost support with its increasingly illegal and thuggish tactics which have badly affected the economy. The PAD wants to force the hand of the players - the military to launch a coup, or the government to resign.

I agree whole heartedly, you have one side trying to deny the poor masses their rights (1 vote 1 value) and keep them in surfdom and another side trying to use the poor masses to achieve their own ends and aquire wealth. Either way the losers are the same, it is only who the winners will be that has yet to be determined. Bit like medieval times really the only difference is this time it doesn't appear to involve the monachy. It must be hard to watch and not interfear, maybe thats what it needs right now......

[A_Traveller]

A short note to 'grandpops', the press release has already been placed into this thread, 03:00 30/11 page 20 even though it was published on 26 November.

Regards

Thanks for that I hadn't seen it as I have a life outside of Thai Visa!

Could you perhaps contribute something constructive like, in what respects is the Asian Commission for Human Rights wrong?

Is it now wrong because it is three days old? I really don't know what you are trying to say, so please be clearer or say nothing if you have nothing to contribute.

Seems to me that anything awkward for PAD attracts loads of pointless posts to push the original away incase it influences any sheep to stray from the PAD fold. IMHO

For those that didn't see it ACHR ladle PAD as Fascists

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/11/...-qualities.html

You are welcome, however, are you suffering from an age related illness? I noted factual information, it is for others to evaluate, not for, unlike some, I to insist upon a related construct. I do note however, that many, but not ACHR, take the view that the '97 constitution was a major component in creating the authoritarian democracy and its associated strictures. Does that make them 'wrong', not by default, but it might, in a questioning mindset, raise questions.

Regards

[Steve2UK]

I had two friends go to Mor Chit today and get a ticket for TODAY to CNX.

Got to admire the sheer elasticity of your logic. Elsewhere you dismiss one Democrat MP being convicted of vote-buying as insignificant (after claiming "The Demos have never been caught in any organised vote buying have they?") - but now one ticket sale means what? There are dozens more? Hundreds?

[k1w1]

The trolls are out atm.

Who in real life considers real humans to be scum? Who would seriously consider the PAD fascists? Who would suggest that Thailand is a horrible place to live?

TROLLLLLLLLLS...

A slightly different issue is that of what will happen when the last of the stragglers are finally shipped out of the country?

Will that allow the division between north of Bangkok and Bangkok to bring fighting to the streets?

Will the Northerners bring the fight south or will the Bangkokians take the reeducation north? Will the Northerners listen if they do? Because at this point the Bangkokians have clearly proven they are ready to fight for their goals but the Northerners are struggling to have a voice that actually has any credibility.

Are the real Majority in the north who support Taksin and his cronies prepared for violent unrest? Or when push comes to shove will they lay down their arms in order to let the more educated brothers and sisters take the lead in bringing this country out of the third world.

If it comes to civil war are the Thais actually prepared to kill their fellow countrymen in order to stay in power. Whichever side they are on.

If the Thais that believe that the courts will solve the issues, are the courts moving fast enough to stop the unrest, or could more be done?

[grandpops]

A short note to 'grandpops', the press release has already been placed into this thread, 03:00 30/11 page 20 even though it was published on 26 November.

Regards

Thanks for that I hadn't seen it as I have a life outside of Thai Visa!

Could you perhaps contribute something constructive like, in what respects is the Asian Commission for Human Rights wrong?

Is it now wrong because it is three days old? I really don't know what you are trying to say, so please be clearer or say nothing if you have nothing to contribute.

Seems to me that anything awkward for PAD attracts loads of pointless posts to push the original away incase it influences any sheep to stray from the PAD fold. IMHO

For those that didn't see it ACHR ladle PAD as Fascists

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/11/...-qualities.html

You are welcome, however, are you suffering from an age related illness? I noted factual information, it is for others to evaluate, not for, unlike some, I to insist upon a related construct. I do note however, that many, but not ACHR, take the view that the '97 constitution was a major component in creating the authoritarian democracy and its associated strictures. Does that make them 'wrong', not by default, but it might, in a questioning mindset, raise questions.

Regards

Yes it was factual. But it was totally unnecassary as you added nothing to it. Please lets have your views on it.

Lets have the questions a questioning mindset might raise. I truely am interested in exploring this further and am genuinly interested to hear who might be thinking what. Adds to the debate.

Lets keep it civil as well

[yadetout]

Support Hotline For Stranded Tourists: 1672

November 30th, 2008 The Tourism Authority of Thailand is offering support for stranded tourists in Thailand - they can call the phone number 1672 for assistance.

It is estimated that by now (Sunday, Nov 30), nearly 160.000 tourists are stranded in Thailand.

[RigPig]

Well as I am in Algeria at the moment in the Sahara dessert and a bit cut off from what is actually happening could anyone let me know of the resent developments. I am due to fly home on Thursday (arrive Friday), the company has me booked me British Airways to Suwannabumi (sorry for the spelling) and then back to Phuket on Thai Airways. I don't think that is looking promising and have asked for a direct flight with Singapore Airlines to Phuket.

I would appreciate a bit of feed back in case I have to argue my case.

Cheers and thanks in advance