Democrats To Form New Coalition Government

[Bangyai]

Ah....ha....pigs shifting to new sty. Clean straw and 40 million a head in the trough. If only short curly tails could wag. Tonight, Aphisit will be having a thorough makeover and haircut, preening himself for the greatness about to be plonked upon him. If this all plays out the Democrats will be in the driving seat for the Big recession about to wash over Thailand like a tsunami. Perfect timing

[Gravelrash]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

Well, they did get a fraction more of the vote than the party that formed the government. Less MPs though.

If reports are true they finally got the numbers Thai style, no need to keep trying to convince us they actually won the junta supported election, but didn't get government, please...

Hopefully things will now calm down, assuming of course they don't follow Sondhi's grand fascist plan. Also as they have done this the right way, no justification for red shirts on the street.

[Jingthing]

I think going with Abhisit is logical but if he fails, and almost all of these pols have failed including Thaksin if you count being a convicted fugitive failing (which I do), then what? I think that would mean one of the very unsavory options.

[Ulysses G.]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

Well, they did get a fraction more of the vote than the party that formed the government. Less MPs though.

If reports are true they finally got the numbers Thai style, no need to keep trying to convince us they actually won the junta supported election, but didn't get government, please...

You mean that, the Democrats did the honorable thing and bought the votes?

Edited December 6, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Gravelrash]

If this is true its the best news since years for Thailand. The democrats have young corruption free politicians, the party has a corruption free reputation. Most of their young politicians got their education abroad. Maybe a new wind will blow over Thailand.

Let's just hope the divide in society can close somewhat, no need for revisionist fallacies yet. Hopefully he will toss a few bones to the north and consolidate, rather than continue with the feudal policies of the past. One can hope.

[soundman]

Multiple posts with reference to the Thai Monarchy have been deleted.

Please keep the discussion centered on the new coalition govt.

[Gravelrash]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

Well, they did get a fraction more of the vote than the party that formed the government. Less MPs though.

If reports are true they finally got the numbers Thai style, no need to keep trying to convince us they actually won the junta supported election, but didn't get government, please...

You mean that, the Democrats did the honorable thing and bought the votes?

Exactly.

[h90]

Ah....ha....pigs shifting to new sty. Clean straw and 40 million a head in the trough. If only short curly tails could wag. Tonight, Aphisit will be having a thorough makeover and haircut, preening himself for the greatness about to be plonked upon him. If this all plays out the Democrats will be in the driving seat for the Big recession about to wash over Thailand like a tsunami. Perfect timing

When the big recession comes and Abhisit makes the world best job, everyone will remember that it was better under Thaksin.

That's really a bad timing.

[Sarge]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

By forming a coalition with other smaller parties. The very same thing PPP did. TRT clones had two tries and failed to succeed, it makes sense to try another flavor in the hot seat. I have had temp jobs that last longer than a typical Thai PM post.

I am not overly optimistic or anything silly like that but assuming Abhisit will be PM, I suggest he take a meeting with Barack Obama on ways he can reach out to bases that are not naturally his own, namely the people of NE Thailand. Thaksin bought/caught their attention by paying attention to them like no other Thai pol had ever done. If Abhisit takes that lesson, perhaps he can even keep the office for a few years. I am not joking about the Abhisit/Obama meeting. Think what that imagery may potentially symbolize to Thais hoping for a brighter future.

Misleading and fanciful as usual; PPP won 226 out of 480 of the MP seats at the last election, despite being the junta's target for suppression following the military coup. The Democrat Party came in a distant second with 166 seats, Chart Thai 39, For the Motherland 26, Ruam Jai Thai Chat Pattana 10, the Neutral Democratic Party 7, and Pracharat 4. So they were the party who won the highest number of seats and had to ask minor parties to join in to be able to govern with a majority. This is normal practice in Western democracies that have representational political system. What you are advocating is an opposition party to form a coalition government conveniently bypassing the bothersome job of asking the people at the ballot box. The rest of the post is so inane that ain't worth commenting on.

[Plus]

Democrats are in no position to pay 40 mil per MP, it doesn't mean that money hasn't been offered. When it comes to money it's not politicians who call the shots.

When big business openly came out in support of Democrat coalition they apparently meant it.

It's not a done deal, however, let's see if PPP can come up with a counteroffer, though it's hard to argue with businessmen now - they've seen PPP govt in action, it was probably the biggest screw up in country's history.

>>>

Abhisit has a chance to clean Thai politics once and for all - just dissolve the house and call the elections ASAP - that way hundreds of MPs will be kicked out and ineligible to run again. That would be one devious plan, Friends of Newin will probably made a big barbeque out of that soft Democrat meat.

[george]

Opposition Democrats claim support to form new government

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Opposition Democrat Party on Saturday claimed it has won sufficient support from the five coalition parties of the ruling government -- including some Members of Parliament (MPs) from the main party -- that it will try to form a new government.

While some MPs from now dissolved People Power Party (PPP) said a separate press conference held almost the same time that Puea Thai Party, the new party set up recently to absorb the PPP legislators who have been forced to seek a new political umbrella, gain support as the core party to form a new government.

The former coalition government was comprised of the PPP, Chart Thai, Puea Pandin, Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana, Pracharat and Matchimatipataya parties.

Democrat Party secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban told the press conference that the party would lead the parties to form a new government to solve the country's political turmoil and prepared for the global financial crisis that started to cause impact the kingdom.

He said the Democrat Party won enough support from parties to set up a government which would be led by party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva.

The lobbying to form a new government was the result of the ruling of the Constitutional Court on December 2 to order the dissolution of the PPP and two allied parties in the coalition -- the Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties -- relating to fraud conducted during the general election held in December last year.

Executives of the three parties, including former prime minister Somchai Wongsawat, were forced to leave their posts and are not allowed to enter politics for five years.

MPs of the dissolved parties have 60 days to join seek a new party to join.

Party representatives who attended the Democrat press conference were MPs from Chart Thai who will join a new party named the Chart Thai Pattana, Puea Pandin, and Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana members from the ex-Matchimatipataya party and some members of the ex-PPP called ''Newin's Friends Group.''

The latter group was the group of PPP's northeastern MPs led by former minister Newin Chidchob, who was on the executive board of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party.

The group was considered the key factor for the regrouping of parties to form the new government.

However, no Pracharat representatives turned up at the press conference.

The representatives from former coalition parties said it was justified that the second biggest party -- the Democrat Party -- to form the government after the first biggest party failed to form a government. It was the best way to create the unity in the society after the political turmoil.

The regrouping is aimed to remedy the rift in Thai society and to resolve the country's ongoing economic problems.

Meahwhile, Puea Thai acting party leader Yongyuth Wichaidit, Uraiwan Thienthong from Pracharat party and Mun Pattanothai from Puea Pandin Party told a press conference that they would still form the new government as they have at least 220 Members of Parliament.

Mr. Youngyuth said the new prime minister may not come from the Puea Thai party even though the party is the largest.

The group believed that not more than 17 MPs from "Newin's friends Group" would defect to join Democrat.

It is unclear which camp will actually win the right to form the new government, because both claimed that they can gain enough MPs.

-- TNA 2008-12-06

[jbowman1993]

Thank God! This will turn out to be a great thing for the country.

[Gravelrash]

Ah....ha....pigs shifting to new sty. Clean straw and 40 million a head in the trough. If only short curly tails could wag. Tonight, Aphisit will be having a thorough makeover and haircut, preening himself for the greatness about to be plonked upon him. If this all plays out the Democrats will be in the driving seat for the Big recession about to wash over Thailand like a tsunami. Perfect timing

When the big recession comes and Abhisit makes the world best job, everyone will remember that it was better under Thaksin.

That's really a bad timing.

Finally some sense from you. World recession plus the PAD killing tourism will create enormous problems for the economy and government, I have always thought they would have been better to wait it out and give PPP the blame for incompetence.

Abhisit is going to have a tough time and more importantly he will need to win hearts and minds in the NE, will he do that or just play steady as it goes. I hope he is up to it so we can see some political stability, but past performances don't offer a lot of food for optimism.

He should also while at it cut a deal with Taksin, return the money, and lose the convictions and restore his name in exchange for being a good boy. Not because it is necessarily right but because the political wounds have to be healed before those of society's can.

[Scott]

Unfortunately, it will fall on the politicians to have policies which are going to guide the country in the difficult times ahead. I haven't heard anything about what anyone plans to do about anything. It is going to take more than just 'harmony' in the country to make things work.

[Guest Reimar]

Guy's keep strict on topic please.

This thread is about the new Government for Thailand and has nothing to do with other countries.

[Jingthing]

SARGE: What you are advocating is an opposition party to form a coalition government conveniently bypassing the bothersome job of asking the people at the ballot box.

I ain't advocating jack sheit, mister. I am just commenting on the RealPolitik as it exists in Thailand. If the new Thaksin party pushes through another Thaksin clone, what do you think we will get? Civil war is what we will get most likely. Do you want that? I didn't think so, and most Thai people don't either.

(I think you just love to disagree with me even when I am talking sense, that's a sickness, mate.)

Edited December 6, 2008 by Jingthing

[jbowman1993]

First Obama and now this. I've got my Christmas presents. No more for me thanks.

[Plus]

Latest entries form Tulsatit Taptim's blog:

Dec 6, 8 pm: Details of today's behind-the-scenes drama have begun to trickle in. It was said that Pojaman might have returned to Thailand a bit too late, because by the time of her arrival, Sanan's secret talks with the Democrats had already made much progress.

Sanan, according to sources, had been given a greenlight by ex-Chat Thai leader Banharn to decide the dissolved party's future. (What a big irony if you remember the fierce rivalry between the two men when Sanan was secretary-general of the Democrat Party).

The Democrats were confident until their planned press conference was announced early in the afternoon, triggering a hectic response from the Puea Thai Party. Puea Thai senior members, probably acting under instructions of Pojaman, frantically tried to contact Sanan and gave him a BIG offer. After days of insisting that the new prime minister must be someone from Puea Thai, now Sanan was reportedly told by Sompong Amornwiwat that he (Sanan) could take the chief executive post. (Hence the breif rumours in the afternoon that Sanan was the latest prime ministerial candidate)

That proved to be too late, though apparently it managed to throw the Democrats into disarray for a while. Torn between the great Puea Thai offer and fears that he could end up like Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat and his government could be short-lived, Sanan chose to back his former rival Abhisit as the new prime minister.

The Democrats claim they now command 250-260 MPs. The biggest question now is whether the proclaimed numbers are secured.

Dec 6, 8.40 pm: It's not over yet. Puea Thai is reportedly trying to tear as many Newin faction members from the Democrat alliance as possible. As I have mentioned before, the party dissolutions have created some sort of a free-for-all situation, and in cutthroat politics like this you are naturally tempted to make yourself available for the highest bidder.

And we are having by-elections coming for 29 seats in the House. What if Puea Thai sweep that?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/06...es_30090182.php

[slimdog]

Abhisit has a chance to clean Thai politics once and for all - just dissolve the house and call the elections ASAP - that way hundreds of MPs will be kicked out and ineligible to run again. That would be one devious plan, Friends of Newin will probably made a big barbeque out of that soft Democrat meat.

I think you ought to read the Constitution...

Section 101.

A person having the following qualifications has the right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(3) Being a member of any and only one political party for a consecutive period of not less than ninety days up to the election day, except that in the case where a general election takes place as a consequence of the dissolution of the House of Representatives such person must be a member of any and only one political party for a consecutive period of not less than thirty days up to the election day

[nickynomates]

This is a long game plan.

Ask your self this question would you want to govern this country at the brink of a major turn down in the economy.

Tourism is going to be very hard hit as well as manufacturing.

Farmers will be hard hit and protest at the drop of a hat.

Its a no win situation for the ones in power for the next 2 years.

If it gets really bad especially in the North east the bigger welcome Mr T gets.

This is not over by a long way.

[brahmburgers]

i do not read thai but it was translated as saying that on a blog. any party that joins a democrat government with seats in the north will likely face a backlash from voters next election in the north

I am guardedly optimistic that Abhisat will get the votes needed - yet he will have a tough row to hoe - and must do all he can to show that he works for all Thais. Interesting that there's so much behind-the-scenes finagling going on, particularly with Ms Pojaman directly in the equation - with her ample money bags at hand.

[Sarge]

SARGE: What you are advocating is an opposition party to form a coalition government conveniently bypassing the bothersome job of asking the people at the ballot box.

I ain't advocating jack sheit, mister. I am just commenting on the RealPolitik as it exists in Thailand. If the new Thaksin party pushes through another Thaksin clone, what do you think we will get? Civil war is what we will get most likely. Do you want that? I didn't think so, and most Thai people don't either.

(I think you just love to disagree with me even when I am talking sense, that's a sickness, mate.)

Jingy, you may want to re-conceptualise your thinking before posting, so to grasp the implication of what you're writing. These latest posts of yours are quite hilarious on so different levels

[ALFREDO]

Why not?

Not always is it possible that the strongest party can arrange a coalition.

Sometimes the problems between the Parties cannot be solved and before the situation gets worth, other solutions are better.

If the Democrats and others get a chance and it works positive, than maybe the next elections bring new surprises.

A new election now brings no surprises, only the same problems again!

We in Austria, had some years ago

also a situation where the second and the third strongest Party made a coalition. Even the third strongest Party

got the Primeminister.

The next elections 4 years later brought the Primeministers Party than from the third to the first place!

So please give the solution a chance.

[kenk3z]

What party represents the three-to-five Islamic-Malaysian provinces in south Thailand?

You know, Malaysia now has several areas where Islamic Sharia law is in effect. To the extent that there are separate check-out lines for men and women at the supermarket.

kenk3z

[rainman]

They must have gotten something VERY nice out of this considering that many of these seats will be lost next election in the North and Northeast if they do in fact defect.

Rumors have been throwing around 40 million baht per MP being offered by the corruption free Democrats http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...05&catid=01

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that corruption? Taking 40 milion Baht to switch sides?

[Bangyai]

Ah....ha....pigs shifting to new sty. Clean straw and 40 million a head in the trough. If only short curly tails could wag. Tonight, Aphisit will be having a thorough makeover and haircut, preening himself for the greatness about to be plonked upon him. If this all plays out the Democrats will be in the driving seat for the Big recession about to wash over Thailand like a tsunami. Perfect timing

When the big recession comes and Abhisit makes the world best job, everyone will remember that it was better under Thaksin.

That's really a bad timing.

Yes, kind of ironic. The last time the democrats were in power they presided over the asian crash of 1997. The baht collapsed and the govournment had to float it until it found its level. Talk about history repeating itself.

The strong baht is not going to help exports, investment or tourism so sometime next year the democrats might have to devalue it. Economic upheaval which some will blame on them and some will say was Thaksins fault. Last time around Sondhi was very critical of their performance and pretty vocal about it. Might be more tightlipped this time.

[mommysboy]

This is a long game plan.

Ask your self this question would you want to govern this country at the brink of a major turn down in the economy.

Tourism is going to be very hard hit as well as manufacturing.

Farmers will be hard hit and protest at the drop of a hat.

Its a no win situation for the ones in power for the next 2 years.

If it gets really bad especially in the North east the bigger welcome Mr T gets.

This is not over by a long way.

I quite agree, quite a poison chalice.

I don't believe Thais, be they working class or upper class, yellow or red, north or south, truly understand just how bad the economy is going to get.

[old wanderer]

I have been reading the BLOG of the Editor or The Nation.

Boy trying to keep up with what is happening, as it seems to change almost minute by minute. I know this is a bit long, but to me fascinating:

By Tulsathit Taptim

Editor of The Nation

Dec 6, 10 am: Pojaman is quiet. The Newin group is quiet. The Democrats are quiet. The Puea Thai Party is quiet. Smaller coalition partners are quiet. By "quiet" I mean they are not talking to the media or having nothing new to say. But at times like this, important things usually happen behind the scenes.

Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said Pojaman came back to visit her ailing mother. Speculation that she returned to settle things with Newin has been predictably denied. Her house is quiet. Nobody's getting out. Nobody's coming in. There are such things as cell phones, though.

Dec 6, 4 pm: Sorry for my own long silence. The deceptive calm is set to be shattered in the next hour or so. Reports and, ahem, rumours are flooding in at the moment, revolving around the initially scorned scenario of the Democrats serving as the new core of the next government.

The Democrats' "press conference" on the formation of the next government was said to have been scheduled at 5 pm. Shortly after this news reached the press, the Puea Thai side claimed it would have a media conference of its own before that.

Who's the real deal? We shall know soon. Please stay tuned.

Dec 6, 4.20 pm: Democrat sources claim the party now has a commitment of approximate 240 MPs, considerably exceeding the simple majority mark of 224 MPs. The news has come from nowhere as there were no visible talks between the Democrats and the coalition partners over the past two days.

Looking at the reaction from the Puea Thai Party and you feel the Democrat claims have rattled the ruling politicians. "I don't believe the coalition partners will be doing that, especially just a day after pledging their support for us," said Nong Khai MP Pongpan Sunthornchai. "Have Chat Thai and Machima Thipataya MPs forgotten already why their parties were dissolved in the first place?"

Well, we can look at it two ways. Perhaps MPs from both parties "remember" too well why their parties were dissolved in the first place.

A big humble pie awaits me if Abhisit or Chuan is the next prime minister. My no-nonsense dismissal of their chances must have found its way into news groups or web blogs all across the globe.

Dec 6, 4.45 pm: Well, the humble pie is still hanging in the balance. Latest reports from the Democrat camp itself said the 5 pm press conference is now in doubt. Reasons given were Chat Thai playing hard to get. Senior Chat Thai adviser Sanan Kachornprasart, predictabaly, has emerged as a PM contender. There have also been reports that Snoh _ who somehow is still convinced that he is an influential factor _ remains adamant that he wants neither Abhisit or a Puea Thai candidate.

Dec 6, 5 pm: Only some junior Democrats have shown up at the Sukhothai Hotel where the Democrat press conference is scheduled to take place. None of them can give useful information to reporters. The MPs basically know as much as you and me.

However, there is one interesting arrival. Manit Nop-amornbordi from the defunct Machima Thipataya Party told reporters he represented about 10 members of his former party to support the Democrats as the core of the next government.

The press conference has not been officially cancelled. Whatever is going on behind the scenes must be very hectic.

Dec 6, 5.30 pm: It seems the Democrats are being stood up at the Sukhothai Hotel. To be exact, the reporters are being stood up by the Democrats at the hotel. Nobody important has arrived.

On the other side, the Puea Thai Party's headquarters has seen senior members of Puea Paendin and Pracharaj parties arriving. No official announcement has been made, though.

Maybe I have watched too many movies, but in my head I'm seeing Thai politicians sitting in front of laptop computers watching obscene amounts of money going in all directions in frantic wired transfers.

Dec 6, 6.30 pm: I was about to change the headline to "Loosen your seatbelt" when Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban told reporters "It's still on. We are the real deal."

Talks are still ongoing, he said. Suthep's confidence is based on the Newin faction still leaning toward the Democrats. The Democrats, as of now, seems to still have Ruamjaithai Chat Pattana under their wing. Puea Paendin is allegedly split, torn between both camps. And Pracharaj seems firmly with Puea Thai.

For now, the fight for Chat Thai votes will be fierce. Sanan's stocks are rising. But actually, with every vote more important than before, everyone's stocks are rising.

Dec 6, 6.45 pm:Urgent, Suthep announces the Democrat Party will form a new government with former Chat Thai MPs, Newin faction members, Ruamjai Thai Chat Pattana, Puea Paendin and Matchima Thipataya parties.

Top representative from Chat Thai, Sanan, is at the press conference, along with leaders of the all mentioned camps.

The humble pie, that is.

Dec 6, 7.10 pm: After taking many deep breaths, it has occurred to me that the party dissolutions mean it won't be that easy for the Democrats. The Sukhothai Hotel press conference looked credible enough, but we have to take into account the fact that Sanan was representing a dissolved Chat Thai, whose MPs are free to go anywhere. The same goes for the defunct Matchima Thiptaya Party.

Snoh is with Puea Thai and Puea Thai souces claimed Chat Thai leader Banharn remained committed with them.

With Puea Thai having 190 MPs at the moment, all it takes is like 35 more MPs to at least create a deadlock. Every vote counts now. I'm keeping the humble pie ready but not eating it yet.

Well, and the thought of Newin being a new kingmaker......

Dec 6, 8 pm: Details of today's behind-the-scenes drama have begun to trickle in. It was said that Pojaman might have returned to Thailand a bit too late, because by the time of her arrival, Sanan's secret talks with the Democrats had already made much progress.

Sanan, according to sources, had been given a greenlight by ex-Chat Thai leader Banharn to decide the dissolved party's future. (What a big irony if you remember the fierce rivalry between the two men when Sanan was secretary-general of the Democrat Party).

The Democrats were confident until their planned press conference was announced early in the afternoon, triggering a hectic response from the Puea Thai Party. Puea Thai senior members, probably acting under instructions of Pojaman, frantically tried to contact Sanan and gave him a BIG offer. After days of insisting that the new prime minister must be someone from Puea Thai, now Sanan was reportedly told by Sompong Amornwiwat that he (Sanan) could take the chief executive post. (Hence the breif rumours in the afternoon that Sanan was the latest prime ministerial candidate)

That proved to be too late, though apparently it managed to throw the Democrats into disarray for a while. Torn between the great Puea Thai offer and fears that he could end up like Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat and his government could be short-lived, Sanan chose to back his former rival Abhisit as the new prime minister.

The Democrats claim they now command 250-260 MPs. The biggest question now is whether the proclaimed numbers are secured.

Dec 6, 8.40 pm: It's not over yet. Puea Thai is reportedly trying to tear as many Newin faction members from the Democrat alliance as possible. As I have mentioned before, the party dissolutions have created some sort of a free-for-all situation, and in cutthroat politics like this you are naturally tempted to make yourself available for the highest bidder.

And we are having by-elections coming for 29 seats in the House. What if Puea Thai sweep that?

Dec 6, 9.10 pm: Puea Thai is said to have launched one of the fiercest lobbyings Thai politics has ever seen. The "homeless" MPs whose groups have pledged allegiance with the Democrats are getting phone calls and everyone who matters on the Puea Thai side is being mobilized to make it happen.

They are even having Plan B and Plan C in store. Sources said if Puea Thai couldn't lure enough MPs to its side, acting prime minister Chavarat Charnveerakul could be instructed to dissolve the House. Problem is Chavarat's close connection with Newin may prove a major obstacle.

Plan C is for red-shirt protesters to do a PAD. It will be quite a sight if Parliament is swarmed by demonstrators in red hellbent on obstructing election of the new prime minister.

To me this is one of the best windows into what make Thai politics so "dynamic".

You will notice not one mention of Thaskin per say, but I am sure he is going crazy trying to control some of this.

Originally Khunying Pojaman was to arrive with Somchai, but the PAD closing of the airport prevented that, now she may be too late to save the ball game for the love of her life.

[Crushdepth]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

Arghhh...I hope you are not from a democratic country....

Basically, 'electoral mandate' is vested in *individual politicians* and not political parties as many people imagine. The electoral mandate goes absolutely no further than that.

A 'party' is just a bunch of elected politicians that have agreed to work together. Any bunch of politicians that has enough members to form a majority can form a 'government', and all that means is that there are enough of them to bully their legislation through parliament. When several parties have to work together to get a majority, that's your 'coalition' government.

PPP did not have an outright majority (a point that Thaksin apologists whining about 'democracy' often seem to forget). They had to form a coalition government with other parties in order to get a majority. If some of those parties now decide they want to work with the democrats instead of the now-defunct PPP then the democrats might have enough supporters to form their own coalition government.

A democrat-led coalition would have just as much electoral mandate as the PPP coalition did. You don't vote for a 'government', you only vote for your local member/representative.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Crushdepth

[dave9988]

If the red shirts take the airport will Abhisit stick to his previous position that the government must step down?

lol