Democrats To Form New Coalition Government

[Retrospect]

sorry i'm a little late but this Abhisit guy is the opposition from Puea Thai?

[Journalist]

I expect the Government of the day would dissolve the house if it can, rather than hand over power on a plate,

Edited December 6, 2008 by Journalist

[h90]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

By forming a coalition with other smaller parties. The very same thing PPP did. TRT clones had two tries and failed to succeed, it makes sense to try another flavor in the hot seat. I have had temp jobs that last longer than a typical Thai PM post.

I am not overly optimistic or anything silly like that but assuming Abhisit will be PM, I suggest he take a meeting with Barack Obama on ways he can reach out to bases that are not naturally his own, namely the people of NE Thailand. Thaksin bought/caught their attention by paying attention to them like no other Thai pol had ever done. If Abhisit takes that lesson, perhaps he can even keep the office for a few years. I am not joking about the Abhisit/Obama meeting. Think what that imagery may potentially symbolize to Thais hoping for a brighter future.

Misleading and fanciful as usual; PPP won 226 out of 480 of the MP seats at the last election, despite being the junta's target for suppression following the military coup. The Democrat Party came in a distant second with 166 seats, Chart Thai 39, For the Motherland 26, Ruam Jai Thai Chat Pattana 10, the Neutral Democratic Party 7, and Pracharat 4. So they were the party who won the highest number of seats and had to ask minor parties to join in to be able to govern with a majority. This is normal practice in Western democracies that have representational political system. What you are advocating is an opposition party to form a coalition government conveniently bypassing the bothersome job of asking the people at the ballot box. The rest of the post is so inane that ain't worth commenting on.

We had that for years in Austria: the second strongest and the third strongest formed a government. The strongest was left outside. no one thought that this isn't democratic.

[manzan]

it took a while, but they have their power back, congratulations to the elite of thailand, well done.

now why go through the whole charade of elections again, just change the constitution and there will be no more need for elections, saves us all the bar's closure days, and a lot less consternation throughout the country.

While you're at it. Sondhi has got some fantastic ideas, do away with the western influence! self sufficiency is the way to go, it makes so much sense to produce everything yourself...

[manzan]

If the red shirts take the airport will Abhisit stick to his previous position that the government must step down?

lol

the army would be there in 10 minutes i suppose, and the terrorists lucky enough to survive the clearing surely would be brought to justice!

[Jingthing]

it took a while, but they have their power back, congratulations to the elite of thailand, well done.

now why go through the whole charade of elections again, just change the constitution and there will be no more need for elections, saves us all the bar's closure days, and a lot less consternation throughout the country.

While you're at it. Sondhi has got some fantastic ideas, do away with the western influence! self sufficiency is the way to go, it makes so much sense to produce everything yourself...

I think you are really jumping the gun.

This is not a done deal yet, Abhisit as PM.

If it happens, it will not be an overwhelming strong coalition in terms of numbers.

Also, why would you assume that the Thai democrats would force the new politics favored by PAD? Now it is true that the Thai democrats have been opportunists with their sympathy towards PAD, but that is not the same thing at all as being committed to the radical anti-democratic changes favored by PAD. I can understand the concern though.

[Sakeopete]

I'll believe it when I see it, I'm guessing the MP's are holding out for a better deal from Toxin by threatening to join ranks with the Democrats. Isn't that what they did when the PPP coalition was being formalized?

[Journalist]

Newin is quite probably dickering and flirting elsewhere as a gambit to get what he wants from the PPP reincarnation.

The right PM nomination, right jobs for his lads.....

[Rajah]

The democrats have ... a corruption free reputation.

Yeah, sure.

So corruption free that the prime minister Chuan had to step back because even for Thai standards his administration was a little bit too greedy:

The first Chuan administration fell when members of the cabinet were implicated in profiting from Sor Phor Kor 4-01 land project documents distributed in Phuket province. Fierce public and press criticism and dissolution of Parliament have been held accountable for his administration's downfall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuan_Leekpai

To avert a Democrat coalition the caretaker PM could dissolve the house. Then there would be new elections. Kind of emergency break.

[henryalleman]

They must have gotten something VERY nice out of this considering that many of these seats will be lost next election in the North and Northeast if they do in fact defect.

Rumors have been throwing around 40 million baht per MP being offered by the corruption free Democrats http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...05&catid=01

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that corruption? Taking 40 milion Baht to switch sides?

because you asked it. Its wrong its was the other way around. I asked my general to read and re-read the article to be 100% sure.

So it was not BY but TO

[henryalleman]

Ah....ha....pigs shifting to new sty. Clean straw and 40 million a head in the trough. If only short curly tails could wag. Tonight, Aphisit will be having a thorough makeover and haircut, preening himself for the greatness about to be plonked upon him. If this all plays out the Democrats will be in the driving seat for the Big recession about to wash over Thailand like a tsunami. Perfect timing

When the big recession comes and Abhisit makes the world best job, everyone will remember that it was better under Thaksin.

That's really a bad timing.

Yes, kind of ironic. The last time the democrats were in power they presided over the asian crash of 1997. The baht collapsed and the govournment had to float it until it found its level. Talk about history repeating itself.

The strong baht is not going to help exports, investment or tourism so sometime next year the democrats might have to devalue it. Economic upheaval which some will blame on them and some will say was Thaksins fault. Last time around Sondhi was very critical of their performance and pretty vocal about it. Might be more tightlipped this time.

If I recall it correctly it was Banhan who was PM in 1997, and it was Chuan who clean up the mess after him. Banhan won the earlier election against Chuan by promising an high raise of salary for Civil Servants, and proclaiming that he will move the capital to Suphan Buri. Chuan was loosing that elections because the Thai public said he was too carefull and too slowly with his democratic reforms after the latest military coup. But Banhan made a mess of things and they re-elected Chuan again. And after Chuan it was another one(Thaksin) who promised a golden future to the Thai voter, and Chuan lost the elections again. Chuan did a good job, but the public did not realize that it take times to change things for the better. And also above his head was always the sword of Damocles (a military coup) if he changed things to rapidly.

I don't know how long you follow Thai politics but I remember vividly the cartoon in all major magazines who made a fool of Banhan during his government.

[permanent_disorder]

takeaway.

guess the "forces of good" figured out it was cheaper to bribe MP's then it was to finance airport seizures.

do what you got to do.

The leader of the Opposition Thai Democratic party, Abhisit Vejjajiva, says Thailand needs honest leadership.

"The thing that really feeds the protests are the actions of the Government," he said.

"And I think it's important that the new government learns the lessons of the last year and makes sure that the new government in place provides honest leadership for the whole country."

- ABC/AFP

Wouldn't it be nice. Can't see it happening, but hope springs eternal.

I think you'll have to wait for the next life....

do-betters. listen, there is not such a thing as honest leadership. leadership can be functional . i hope without you. that wouldn't be honest, you have to wait for the next life.

____________________________________________________________

If the red shirts take the airport will Abhisit stick to his previous position that the government must step down?

lol

"I would expect avocados to become a problem,"

Edited December 6, 2008 by permanent_disorder

[henryalleman]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

Arghhh...I hope you are not from a democratic country....

Basically, 'electoral mandate' is vested in *individual politicians* and not political parties as many people imagine. The electoral mandate goes absolutely no further than that.

A 'party' is just a bunch of elected politicians that have agreed to work together. Any bunch of politicians that has enough members to form a majority can form a 'government', and all that means is that there are enough of them to bully their legislation through parliament. When several parties have to work together to get a majority, that's your 'coalition' government.

PPP did not have an outright majority (a point that Thaksin apologists whining about 'democracy' often seem to forget). They had to form a coalition government with other parties in order to get a majority. If some of those parties now decide they want to work with the democrats instead of the now-defunct PPP then the democrats might have enough supporters to form their own coalition government.

A democrat-led coalition would have just as much electoral mandate as the PPP coalition did. You don't vote for a 'government', you only vote for your local member/representative. I dare to contradict this. This can be so in the Anglo-Saxon 2 party system, but in most continental European countries you first vote for a party and than for the candidate, and the MP are always tributary to the parties, because they choose who will be on the election list. A party can make and brake the career of an politician.

Correct, a minority government is not an exception in Western Europe. In this case each proposal from the government is scrutinized by the parliament on his merits and than rejected or voted. Sometimes minority Governments did a very good job in a political complicated situation.

In many cases its an parliamentary democracy on his best, because the parliament have all the power in his hands.

[Sarge]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

By forming a coalition with other smaller parties. The very same thing PPP did. TRT clones had two tries and failed to succeed, it makes sense to try another flavor in the hot seat. I have had temp jobs that last longer than a typical Thai PM post.

I am not overly optimistic or anything silly like that but assuming Abhisit will be PM, I suggest he take a meeting with Barack Obama on ways he can reach out to bases that are not naturally his own, namely the people of NE Thailand. Thaksin bought/caught their attention by paying attention to them like no other Thai pol had ever done. If Abhisit takes that lesson, perhaps he can even keep the office for a few years. I am not joking about the Abhisit/Obama meeting. Think what that imagery may potentially symbolize to Thais hoping for a brighter future.

Misleading and fanciful as usual; PPP won 226 out of 480 of the MP seats at the last election, despite being the junta's target for suppression following the military coup. The Democrat Party came in a distant second with 166 seats, Chart Thai 39, For the Motherland 26, Ruam Jai Thai Chat Pattana 10, the Neutral Democratic Party 7, and Pracharat 4. So they were the party who won the highest number of seats and had to ask minor parties to join in to be able to govern with a majority. This is normal practice in Western democracies that have representational political system. What you are advocating is an opposition party to form a coalition government conveniently bypassing the bothersome job of asking the people at the ballot box. The rest of the post is so inane that ain't worth commenting on.

We had that for years in Austria: the second strongest and the third strongest formed a government. The strongest was left outside. no one thought that this isn't democratic.

do you actually understand how a PR system works?

[henryalleman]

Ah....ha....pigs shifting to new sty. Clean straw and 40 million a head in the trough. If only short curly tails could wag. Tonight, Aphisit will be having a thorough makeover and haircut, preening himself for the greatness about to be plonked upon him. If this all plays out the Democrats will be in the driving seat for the Big recession about to wash over Thailand like a tsunami. Perfect timing

When the big recession comes and Abhisit makes the world best job, everyone will remember that it was better under Thaksin.

That's really a bad timing.

Yes, kind of ironic. The last time the democrats were in power they presided over the asian crash of 1997. The baht collapsed and the govournment had to float it until it found its level. Talk about history repeating itself.

The strong baht is not going to help exports, investment or tourism so sometime next year the democrats might have to devalue it. Economic upheaval which some will blame on them and some will say was Thaksins fault. Last time around Sondhi was very critical of their performance and pretty vocal about it. Might be more tightlipped this time.

If I recall it correctly it was Banhan who was PM in 1997, and it was Chuan who clean up the mess after him. Banhan won the earlier election against Chuan by promising an high raise of salary for Civil Servants, and proclaiming that he will move the capital to Suphan Buri. Chuan was loosing that elections because the Thai public said he was too carefull and too slowly with his democratic reforms after the latest military coup. But Banhan made a mess of things and they re-elected Chuan again. And after Chuan it was another one(Thaksin) who promised a golden future to the Thai voter, and Chuan lost the elections again. Chuan did a good job, but the public did not realize that it take times to change things for the better. And also above his head was always the sword of Damocles (a military coup) if he changed things to rapidly.

I don't know how long you follow Thai politics but I remember vividly the cartoon in all major magazines who made a fool of Banhan during his government.

SORRY IT WAS CHAVALIT

[SomchaiCNX]

Ah....ha....pigs shifting to new sty. Clean straw and 40 million a head in the trough. If only short curly tails could wag. Tonight, Aphisit will be having a thorough makeover and haircut, preening himself for the greatness about to be plonked upon him. If this all plays out the Democrats will be in the driving seat for the Big recession about to wash over Thailand like a tsunami. Perfect timing

When the big recession comes and Abhisit makes the world best job, everyone will remember that it was better under Thaksin.

That's really a bad timing.

Yes, kind of ironic. The last time the democrats were in power they presided over the asian crash of 1997. The baht collapsed and the govournment had to float it until it found its level. Talk about history repeating itself.

The strong baht is not going to help exports, investment or tourism so sometime next year the democrats might have to devalue it. Economic upheaval which some will blame on them and some will say was Thaksins fault. Last time around Sondhi was very critical of their performance and pretty vocal about it. Might be more tightlipped this time.

If I recall it correctly it was Banhan who was PM in 1997, and it was Chuan who clean up the mess after him. Banhan won the earlier election against Chuan by promising an high raise of salary for Civil Servants, and proclaiming that he will move the capital to Suphan Buri. Chuan was loosing that elections because the Thai public said he was too carefull and too slowly with his democratic reforms after the latest military coup. But Banhan made a mess of things and they re-elected Chuan again. And after Chuan it was another one(Thaksin) who promised a golden future to the Thai voter, and Chuan lost the elections again. Chuan did a good job, but the public did not realize that it take times to change things for the better. And also above his head was always the sword of Damocles (a military coup) if he changed things to rapidly.

I don't know how long you follow Thai politics but I remember vividly the cartoon in all major magazines who made a fool of Banhan during his government.

Baharn was before that.

Chavalit was prime minister at that time (97).

However, Toxin (as part of the Palang Dharma) was part of that small elite group back than, that got inside information about the devaluation of the baht. (made some extra cash that way) Chuan was called in to clean up the mess (without a new election if I remember well). He did a great job and the early succes of first Toxin government was just the result of the hard work of Chuan.

Isaan people have a history of putting A... Holes in power, no wonder that area is still poor.

[Sarge]

Also, why would you assume that the Thai democrats would force the new politics favored by PAD? Now it is true that the Thai democrats have been opportunists with their sympathy towards PAD, but that is not the same thing at all as being committed to the radical anti-democratic changes favored by PAD. I can understand the concern though.

yeah, and you may well be right on that one, however let's remind the Demos that PAD policies have fascist instincts, they've suggested constitutional amendments where a Parliament would be largely self-appointed, repel some of popular social policies and decentralise power. I can't fanthom why a party that name itself as Democratic would remotely associate itself with this bunch of lunatics. Could it be political expediency as you suggest?

[citizen33]

Also, why would you assume that the Thai democrats would force the new politics favored by PAD? Now it is true that the Thai democrats have been opportunists with their sympathy towards PAD, but that is not the same thing at all as being committed to the radical anti-democratic changes favored by PAD. I can understand the concern though.

yeah, and you may well be right on that one, however let's remind the Demos that PAD policies have fascist instincts, they've suggested constitutional amendments where a Parliament would be largely self-appointed, repel some of popular social policies and decentralise power. I can't fanthom why a party that name itself as Democratic would remotely associate itself with this bunch of lunatics. Could it be political expediency as you suggest?

I am reminded of the IRA and Sinn Fein, myself. No doubt my analogy exaggerates a little, but the role of one is to step outside the law and overturn the status quo, while the other appears to stay clean and then steps into government. Are they connected? I would say yes, no question. They have the same powerful backers. I shouldn't think many people from Sarge's neck of the woods are fooled.

Edited December 6, 2008 by citizen33

[Moonrakers]

To cut a long story short, Thai politics is madness.

Suggs for PM.

[MaiThaiMai]

To cut a long story short, Thai politics is madness.

Suggs for PM.

Are things going to remain expat-friendly (as in prior to airport shut-down)?

I had plans to retire there a year-at-a-time of course

MaiThaiMai

Edited December 6, 2008 by MaiThaiMai

[MILT]

They must have gotten something VERY nice out of this considering that many of these seats will be lost next election in the North and Northeast if they do in fact defect.

Rumors have been throwing around 40 million baht per MP being offered by the corruption free Democrats http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...05&catid=01

Bull shaaaaaaaaaat Rumors

[Mosha]

Well it looks as if the bloody woman's war chest has run out. She better run before she is locked up.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Mosha

[mc2]

Tthe defectors will still be loyal to Thaksin in some form unless they want to say goodbye at the next election, which could come earlier than they think

Edited December 7, 2008 by mc2

[MILT]

takeaway.

guess the "forces of good" figured out it was cheaper to bribe MP's then it was to finance airport seizures.

do what you got to do.

What's with all this bribe and payoff nonsense. While all politicians are not sqeaky clean, at least the Dems have the country in the best interest not their personal finacial gains. At this piont anyone is better than Toxin and his kleeng ons. Thailand will be better off with a young fresh mind!

[jbowman1993]

I bet Pokemon and Thaksh*t are freaking out right now. My wife commented this morning "Don't they understand that they brought this on themselves? That they were the cause of their own downfall?"

I doubt they ever will understand that. Their blind greed and corruption will serve as a shot across the bow of other politicians (i.e. People Pursuing Power). The EC and the Judiciary have shown recently that the consequences of (detected) vote buying are severe. The NCCC and the Judiciary have shown that the consequences of government corruption will be severe (Samek, Apirak, Fire Trucks). I think that having the judiciary infused with this new found sense of justice and duty (seemingly the only positive result of the 2006 coup) will, in the long run, be of the greatest benefit for Thailand's development as a nation. Its a long, slow process filled with difficulties and idiots (Samak, PAD, Thaksin, Charlerm, Chaiya, etc), but eventually justice will win out.

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice" - Martin Luther King Jr.

Edited December 7, 2008 by jbowman1993

[nickynomates]

Newin Chidchob = Trojan horse.

I know but its to the point.

Edited December 7, 2008 by nickynomates

[AussieFarang]

So the man who couldn't win an election is to try and form a coalition government.

If you want to know how effective he will be ask yourself how effective he has been as opposition leader.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not sure why some folks are painting the Democrats as being "good guys". Chuan was a genuine, good, clean politician, but he was a real oddity and it was well known that he couldn't get much accomplished because everyone else was so shady.

[Gary A]

The point that most seem to miss is that positions of political power are purchased. That's how the elite control things and will continue to control things into the future. It's just a matter of time for the elite to purchase enough politicians to come up with a majority. Soon it will be business as usual. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

[Seneque]

First good news in weeks!

I hope we'll see good governance.

With NEWIN becoming the 'de facto' new strong man ... i don't see this as good news at all