Ex-thai Pm Attempts To Block Govt Led By Opponents

[farangpattaya]

Let's be honest: During the Thaksin 'era' a lot of good things happened.

Yes, Mr. T. was obviously corrupt and onviously he absued his power for his own good, but Thailand went into a lot prosperity and economic growth. Yes or no?

Suppose, you were in his position in a country as Thailand, wouldn't you do the same?

I would!!

[jasreeve17]

Let's be honest: During the Thaksin 'era' a lot of good things happened.

Yes, Mr. T. was obviously corrupt and onviously he absued his power for his own good, but Thailand went into a lot prosperity and economic growth. Yes or no?

Suppose, you were in his position in a country as Thailand, wouldn't you do the same?

I would!!

I find that a sad and pathetic attitude.

I'd use my elected mandate to benefit the populous, rather than break laws, risk imprisonment and harm millions for my own selfish (and insecure) advancement...

[Bangyai]

The fact that so many people have turned up for todays event at the National stadium indicates that after Monday, regardless of who comes out on top , the political crisis is set to run and run. A terrible Mexican stand off with no winners.

[Alboy301]

Does anybody know if and where the current red-shirts gathering can be viewed online? Incl. the phone-in speach of the fugitive mafiosi?

We (our family) like to see live what he is up to trying to destroy the country.

NBT won't broadcast it.

opalhort

No doubt that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit! Nice display from you. However, I get more put out by comments like mafiosi. I'm quite sure that they're not but it's more likely that some of your wife's family are more closely linked to the mafia than Thaksin. Thaksin is a very intelligent, successful businessman who no doubt, like many others, combined his business skills with a little bribery and corruption.

Personally, I don't feel that he's any better or any worse than the other "elite" in Thailand - just that his actions were more high profile and the figures, pretty staggering. Likewise he's no worse than any other politicians - the only difference was he got caught and in a big way. Personally, I think he's just a guy blinded by power and influence, who didn't know when to stop.

Do you support the anti-corruption PAD (tongue in cheek), who paid people to come out in support, and in some cases kill and maim? Moreover they were paying people, who ordinarily they would not pee on if they were on fire, to do their dirty work. I would suggest this is hardly a party streets ahead of PPP in terms of integrity and decency.

However, think on this. Thaksin, still has more power than any PAD leader, even when he's not in the country. That's a pretty influential figure, whether you support him or not. I'd also say that while Thaksin might be corrupt, he's a ballsy character and I would say he woiuld put his neck on the line for Thailand quicker than the spineless PAD leaders.

I really don't go in for this Thai trait of kicking a man while he's down, both literally and in a figurative sense. Sure the man <deleted> up (and I think he should serve his time), but I don't think it's fair to portray him as the man who led Thailand into the mire. Mind you Somsak would've done that given the chance!

Edited December 13, 2008 by Alboy301

[JacknDanny]

I am surprised that the red shirts did not start their own annoying things after the yellow left the airports & government buildings

Wasn't the brutal murders of PAD by the red shirts enough for you ? shame on you promoting more conflict that is being promoted by Toxin.

you must have had too much sangsom again. it was the yellows killing the reds (and anyone else that wouldnt do what they wanted)

You seem to be the one trying to fuel the fires of conflict and im not surprised

Do us all a favour. Either pay attention or do some research. Put your brain into gear, THEN post. Saves a lot of embarrassment

[britmaveric]

Good for the reds - show that they have the numbers to squash any PAD rally. The majority has spoken - now will Thailand listen????

[Pierrot]

Let's be honest: During the Thaksin 'era' a lot of good things happened.

Yes, Mr. T. was obviously corrupt and onviously he absued his power for his own good, but Thailand went into a lot prosperity and economic growth. Yes or no?

Actually, it wasn't Thaksin who took advantage of his position but some people around him (or at least that what they are accused of). Same for the PPP leaders. They were not accused of any wrong doing, just to be the leaders of an organization from which some members may have acted in an inappropriate manner.

On the other hand it is now claimed that PAD leaders can’t be held responsible of any of the damage caused during the occupation of the government house and the airport, because it can’t be proved that they are directly and personally responsible of these damages …

[mommysboy]

Did someone notice this latest BBC blunder?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7781249.stm

Ex-Thai PM to address supporters

Thai protesters chant slogans during a rally at a sport stadium in Bangkok

Thailand's ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is to address thousands of supporters from exile at a rally in a sports stadium in Bangkok.

He will address the crowd via recorded message, and then live by telephone.

Mr Thaksin, whose whereabouts are unclear, has been in self-imposed exile since August after being convicted of breaking conflict of interest rules.

It comes two days before parliament is to vote for a new PM to succeed his brother-in-law, Somchai Wongsawat.

Mr Somchai was forced to resign by a court ruling earlier this month.

The court found his party, the People Power Party (PPP), guilty of fraud during the last election a year ago, and banned it and two other parties in the governing coalition.

They have now regrouped under new names, but the opposition People's Alliance for Democracy says it has won over enough defectors and unaligned MPs to lead the new government.

Opposition protests

The Democrats, who were defeated in the last general elections in December, will propose to parliament that Abhisit Vejjajiva becomes the next prime minister.

The new prime minister will be the country's fifth leader in a little over two years.

Thailand has been in political deadlock for months as anti-government protesters have mounted a campaign to remove the governing party.

They accused the PPP of being a proxy for Mr Thaksin, who was ousted in a military coup in 2006.

The protest culminated in a week-long occupation of Bangkok's main international airport that left 300,000 foreign tourists stranded.

The opposition called off its action after the recent decision by the constitutional court to disband the PPP.

Yes very good.

Freudian Slip?

Uncomfortably close to the truth though?

[jasreeve17]

The fact that so many people have turned up for todays event at the National stadium indicates that after Monday, regardless of who comes out on top , the political crisis is set to run and run. A terrible Mexican stand off with no winners.

Watching on TV, there are a lot of them and they don't look like 'uneducated farmers' - just normal folk. - Along with a big Kenyan chap on stage!

There also seems to be several other events nationwide (Udon Thani is an example), those folk don't appear to be 'stupid violent mobs' either, they look the same as the early PAD protests (before the 'guards' were so eveident, if there at all).

Just had a clip of Thaksin (recorded yesterday?) and the missus relayed; "I can't explain it in English". I noticed that he had his sad voice on again; like a couple of years ago when he shed a few tears (false in my opinion, on that occasion).

The missus said the phone call didn't work, as no connection. She then ranted about the line being 'blocked'... don't know. She finished by saying that I looked very fat today, and I should join a gym...

[benjamat]

I am surprised that the red shirts did not start their own annoying things after the yellow left the airports & government buildings

Wasn't the brutal murders of PAD by the red shirts enough for you ? shame on you promoting more conflict that is being promoted by Toxin.

Yet more brainless comments, take some bisodol

[mommysboy]

Let's be honest: During the Thaksin 'era' a lot of good things happened.

Yes, Mr. T. was obviously corrupt and onviously he absued his power for his own good, but Thailand went into a lot prosperity and economic growth. Yes or no?

Suppose, you were in his position in a country as Thailand, wouldn't you do the same?

I would!!

To my mind he was right for the country given the nature of the people and the way they do business.

[animatic]

Let's be honest: During the Thaksin 'era' a lot of good things happened.

Yes, Mr. T. was obviously corrupt and onviously he absued his power for his own good,

but Thailand went into a lot prosperity and economic growth. Yes or no?

Suppose, you were in his position in a country as Thailand, wouldn't you do the same?

I would!!

He got lucky cobbling his coalition together AFTER

the Dems took the hit for making the TOUGH post '97 decisions

The world recovers, Thailand recovers.

Thaksin takes the credit for it all.

He got lucky... for awhile.

Ego is a terrible thing to waste.

[Koo82]

MVtv was cut by the time they thought Khun Thaksin would have phoned in. But he won't.

I then watched the meeting from internet but they cut it too.

Now I can watch again at http://www.thaipeoplevoice.org/

[mommysboy]

Does anybody know if and where the current red-shirts gathering can be viewed online? Incl. the phone-in speach of the fugitive mafiosi?

We (our family) like to see live what he is up to trying to destroy the country.

NBT won't broadcast it.

opalhort

Mafiosi? you must be kidding.... the PAD those are the destroyers.....

Thailand has reached an important cornerstone in its development. The rather poor from the countryside have been fed first time with something like health insurance and/or some increased minimum wages.

Taksin did this for votes. He is very corrupt but he turned a switch, this can not be revoked.

The current demonstrations against "the new Thai order" can not succed.

The country will change to follow places like Singapore and Hong Kong; become first world.

This movement will increase especially after the garant for stability will not be there anymore.

I, personally hope for a "Thai" way of achieving this. Its inevitably coming.

In Africa, a civil war like we will have would cost 3 Million peoples lives, averaged.

From history Thailand was always much better and smarter, still i believe there will be 50 to 100.000 dying to arrive at the unavoidable progression of this country.

Toxin started it. The "Elite" cant stop it anymore. That is good so, why would anybody like to see rich fat chinese Motterf*ukkers reap in the profits of millions of Isaan workers.

To continue the status quo the elite (yellow) has to resort to extraordinary measures. So will the red do. Lets hope, for the sake of Thailand that both can find a Thai-way to agree, otherwise i see grey (not black) times for two years.

It seems to be civil war this time. But i trust Thailand to be different again and again. Thats why i stay here.

The mind fair boggles

[IAMSOBAD]

Who has a bigger ego...OSAMA BIN LADEN? O.J. SIMPSON? THAKSIN? All 3 are major psychopaths and have criminal personalities. Doesnt THAKSIN remind you of OSAMA with his recorded statements from an unknown location? He is a cancer to Thailand. The world will be better off without OSAMA...THAKSIN AND BUSH.

[Johpa]

20,000 sheep all led by the deviant shepherd Thaksin, the pervert of Thai justice supported of course by his vitriolic mouthpiece supporters on this forum. Still we all now what suits sheep don't we - carved up with mint sauce on a plate. Let's hope that the wiser factions of Thai society do all they can to protect the metaphorical from becoming factual.

Alas, currently there does not exist any wiser factions of Thai society. You have red sheep led by Thaksin and yellow sheep led by Sondhi, and underneath it all there is little to differentiate the two sides apart from which side is currently getting the biggest piece of the pie, as in the old Thai euphemism for politics "kin muang". But of course there are the other sheep, the majority, who do not wear colors and just go along for the ride hoping to catch a little sanook along the way.

[Koo82]

You missed that TRT AND PPP were dissolved for vote buying???

You missed that Democrats bought votes too but the Court didn't judge, saying "not enough evidence".

How cute!

[Plus]

Note Dr Weng was adressing the red-rally - he would be the same UDD leader whom also led red-protests to the UK Embassy in Bangkok, denouncing their democracy and demanding Thaksin's visa be re-instated... The same UDD leader Dr Weng coincidentaly introduced the bill to remove vote-fraud rules from Thailand's constitution (the one approved by a referendum) and really escalted the ensuing mess...

Afaik, Weng's proposal is reversal to 1997 constitution, means everything that has gone since then will be illegal including Thaksin's and his wife convictions, and all investigations against him. The main target, though, are the coup makers - they will be prosecuted accorging to 1997 constitution.

And while we are on the subject of Dr. Weng, here are a couple of quotes from the Nation:

"The procession is led by an amplifier vehicle manned by two leaders of the Peoples' Alliance for Democracy - Suriyasai Katasila and Weng Tojitrakan. An announcer on the stage at Sanam Luang asid there were about 200,000 people joining the march." - the reds got only 30k today, btw, and it's a good memo for the "clever" BBC boy Jonathan Head who "reported" that PAD has never mustered more than a couple of thousands of supporters

"The Constitution Court yesterday tossed out the impeachment petition against Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra...

...

Weng Tojitrakarn, president of the Federation for Democracy, said it was regrettable that the court decided not to hear the case.

It had shirked its responsibility to investigate the allegations against Thaksin, he said."

"Weng Tojirakarn, chairman of the Confederation for Democracy, said he also filed a separate petition with the Department of Special Investigation (DSI).

He said the DSI should look into possible stock-exchange violations relating to the sale of Shin Corp."

"last week a group of civic, labour and democracy activists, led by Dr Weng Tochirakarn, rallied in front of Singapore's embassy in Bangkok to demand that Temasek nullify its Shin Corp deal"

"A dozen political activists said yesterday that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra no longer had a mandate to govern and should resign immediately or face a popular revolt.

The group added that Shin Corp shares, now held by Temasek Holdings, an investment arm of the Singaporean government, should be frozen and be subject to investigation as the deal was dubious and violated Thailand’s national sovereignty.

'It’s about time.

People want a return of their power,' said Weng Tojirakarn, chairperson of the Democracy Federation.."

The first page of search results:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/ads...2006&page=1

>>>

Thaksin's address to the nation seems to have been gone unnoticed - the media ignored it completely. I just got home and glimpsed only a flash of his image on the screen, there was nothing of substance said, the main content of today's rally was carried by Jatuporn and Veera and the commentator covered that in detail.

[Plus]

Democrats bought votes too but the Court didn't judge, saying "not enough evidence".

There was a case where two canvassers for Dem party executive were caught together with another Democrat candidate giving out free movie tickets. They all got punished, the EC couldn't find enough evidence to link them with the party executive himself who wasn't at the scene at all.

The executives of other, now dissolved parties, were caught red handed themselves. PPP's case was the most blatant of all - it was shameless vote buying in bulk - bribing local officials from the whole region.

[Pierrot]

You missed that TRT AND PPP were dissolved for vote buying???

You missed that Democrats bought votes too but the Court didn't judge, saying "not enough evidence".

How cute!

Actually, if I remember well, the democrats chose not to have candidate in area where the "patronage" system would have put them at risk to be disqualified as party. They had an agreement, with Phua Phaendin if I'm not mistaken, to be in charge of campaigning in those areas.

[stopthebollox]

Ex-Thai PM attempts to block govt led by opponents

The Associated Press

Thursday, December 11, 2008

BANGKOK, Thailand: Thailand's exiled former prime minister — still powerful two years after his ouster in a military coup — hopes to head off a new government led by his opponents with a telephone speech to tens of thousands of supporters, politicians said Thursday.

Opposition Democrat Party officials acknowledged that the speech Saturday by ex-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra could hurt their plans to take power for the first time since Thaksin took office in 2001.

Thailand's Parliament is to meet Monday to elect a new prime minister, lower house Speaker Chai Chidchob announced Thursday, confirming that King Bhumibol Adulyadej had endorsed a request from the Democrats to hold the session.

The Democrats claim they have enlisted enough lawmakers from other parties to form a parliamentary majority and name their leader, Abhisit Vejjajiva, the prime minister of a new government.

"If the voting is held after Thaksin's phone-in, there will be more pressure on defector lawmakers," said Democrat Party Secretary-General Suthep Thuagsuban. "This makes us nervous. It could affect the number of votes we have."

Last week, the Constitutional Court forced Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat to step down and disbanded his People's Power Party for fraud in last year's general elections.

The new leader will be Thailand's fifth prime minister in a little over two years. The country has been deadlocked politically by months of protests by an anti-government alliance that culminated in a weeklong occupation of Bangkok's airports last month that stranded more than 300,000 travelers.

The protesters accused Somchai's government of being a puppet of Thaksin, a former telecommunications billionaire who was ousted by a September 2006 military coup for alleged corruption and abuse of power.

They called off their protests after last week's court decision.

Thaksin is widely seen as continuing to play a major behind-the-scenes role in the country's politics and is still supported by many in the impoverished countryside because of his populist policies while in power from 2001 to 2006.

Tens of thousands of supporters are expected at the rally Saturday at a Bangkok stadium to hear the speech from Thaksin, who has been living in exile in the United Arab Emirates.

Jatuporn Phromphan, a pro-Thaksin lawmaker, said the speech may upset the Democrats' plans to form a government.

"Thaksin is planning to call in to tell his supporters how the other side is using extraconstitutional means to usurp power," Jatuporn said. "After listening to him, his supporters may demand that their parliamentary representatives return to the fold."

Thaksin's supporters have said the army has been pressuring lawmakers to switch sides, an accusation the army has denied.

But a spokesman for the ex-prime minister, Pongthep Thepkanchana, said he was not aware of plans by Thaksin to pressure his former allies.

"He is calling to talk about the current situation. I am not aware of a plan to convince the lawmakers to oppose the Democrat-led coalition," Pongthep said.

Lawmakers already have experienced pressure from both sides. Some found coffins, an unexploded grenade and rowdy but nonviolent protesters in front of their homes after they switched support to the Democrats.

"There are many factors including (offers of) cash and Cabinet seats, and threats, which affect a lawmaker's decision," said Sukhum Nuansakul, a political scientist at Bangkok's Ramkhamhaeng University.

"After Thaksin's call-in, there may be more protests and public pressure on defector lawmakers. There is a lot of maneuvering behind the scenes on both sides but the pressure on the lawmakers might become more public," Sukhum said.

Sukhum predicts the Democrats will continue to have the upper hand in forming a government amid public demands for stability.

"Even if the next government is short-lived, people are scared of the possibility of more protests," Sukhum said.

Editor note: Thaksin is expected to speak to the chorum at 20.00 Bangkok time. The TV channel is NBT (UBC channel 5)

Please excuse my ignorence but how can the former prime minister pass any valid comment being a flighting criminal?

[h90]

You missed that TRT AND PPP were dissolved for vote buying???

You missed that Democrats bought votes too but the Court didn't judge, saying "not enough evidence".

How cute!

just to get the facts right:

PPP: trucks with speaker in every soi, between 200-500 Baht if vote for PPP, sometimes very direct sometimes in difficult constructions.

Videos people giving cash money

Democrats: that guy hands out free-cinema cards for just everyone who pass by. The cinema is owned by his son.

I agree that it is not OK, but hardly comparable with the others.

What really let me think: All that people who like the ideas of PAD or the Democrats have very balanced views, finding some doings of the PAD/Democrats bad sometimes BUT all that Thaksin lovers write all the times the sames things sometimes exactly the same words "this democratic elected government" sometimes mistakes which can't be possible if someone is interested "Abhisit had to step down as governor of Bangkok", "PAD lost the last elections" "PAD Sondhi <-->Army Sonti", "PAD <-->PDA". So that looks like some students who got a briefing/script and money for doing so.....

Registered yesterday 2 postings never and interests for house/garden/food but knowing everything about the forum and what is allowed and what not.

[Dap]

Actually, I suggest we stop referring to Abhisit Vejjajiva as the next prime minister. First it's not yet a done deal and then it will be at best a caretaker.

A prime minister is a political leader. We all know that if Mr Abhisit is handled the job, it's because he has none of the qualities of a political leader.

NO!!!! We don't ALL know.

[smoz]

Jakrapob says Abhisit lacks leadership

BANGKOK: -- Former PM's Office minister Jakrapob Penkain Saturday criticised Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva as lacking no leadership and was under influence of others.

Speaking to the demonstrators at the National Stadium, Jakrapob said when Abhisit looked at himself in a mirror, he did not see himself but he saw other persons instead.

Jakrapob said Abhisit sometimes saw Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban, sometimes Sondhi Limthongkul, a co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, sometimes former army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkul and sometimes Newin Chidchob.

"Abhisit has no identity in democracy so how could he be the prime minister under the democratic system?" Jakrapob said.

-- The Nation 2008-12-13

When Jakrapob looks at himself in the mirror:

[cutter007]

I guess I just don't understand the whole argument about vote buying and how you can discount it

as being totally undemocratic.

Isn't every election in every country won by spending money to influence voters?

Sure, some aren't as corrupt/civilized a system as Thailand, where people are paid in hard cold cash.

But Thai voters still had a choice who to vote for, and they chose to take the money that was given to them and vote

the way they did.

I am not for either side of this conflict, but I just don't see what the PAD and its supporters are offering that

could be a better option than the election system before, of a democratic election and vote buying going on.

This conflict is going to go on for a long time, until the poor speak out loudly, which they are unable to

do except through a standoff that will inevitably result in violence, because of barriers set before them.

Unfortunately people are going to get hurt, but this process is nothing new to emerging democracies.

I wish people weren't so selfish.

[Old Man River]

It doesn't look like this has been posted here yet. These are some comments by Thaksin tonight in his recorded message to his supporters:

http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30090907

[Pierrot]

Actually, I suggest we stop referring to Abhisit Vejjajiva as the next prime minister. First it's not yet a done deal and then it will be at best a caretaker.

A prime minister is a political leader. We all know that if Mr Abhisit is handled the job, it's because he has none of the qualities of a political leader.

NO!!!! We don't ALL know.

That's what I like with ThaiVisa, I always learn something.

[Ricardo]

Jakrapob says Abhisit lacks leadership

BANGKOK: -- Former PM's Office minister Jakrapob Penkain Saturday criticised Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva as lacking no leadership and was under influence of others.

Speaking to the demonstrators at the National Stadium, Jakrapob said when Abhisit looked at himself in a mirror, he did not see himself but he saw other persons instead.

Jakrapob said Abhisit sometimes saw Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban, sometimes Sondhi Limthongkul, a co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, sometimes former army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkul and sometimes Newin Chidchob.

"Abhisit has no identity in democracy so how could he be the prime minister under the democratic system?" Jakrapob said.

-- The Nation 2008-12-13

"lacking no leadership and was under the influence of others" , surely those words describe TRT/PPP/PTP to a 'T', given the poor quality of PMs/Cabinet they have produced, and the fact that they themselves admit that they are all just nominees for Thaksin, and need to see him or phone him for every little decision ?

As to how Abhisit could be PM under the democratic system, it's easy if the Dems can put a coalition-together, you might think Jakrapob would know this, given that it was the same deal for the PPP-led coalition-government, over the past year.

Good however to hear that this largely-peaceful demonstration went off quietly, and that the police immediately identified the source of 'bangs' as probably being firecrackers, rather than assuring all-and-sundry that the demonstrators must have been carrying bombs or weapons, which the BiBs have sometimes done !

[Koo82]

Question: Why do some people are scared when knowing / thinking Khun Thaksin will phone in? What secret did they have with Khun Thaksin?

[Koo82]

The handsome Ab- is not qualified to be PM. He didn't join the Army.