Tv Members And Political Correctness

[PhilHarries]

The problem is that the anti-PC brigade miss 'the good old days' when you could openly call black people 'darkies' or 'coons' and call the disabled 'spastics'. They resent the fact that society wants to try and control the worst aspects of the darker side of their natures. They fondly remember the days when you could openly spit on your neighbor (or worse) because they looked or spoke different or because they went to a different church. They miss the days when being an ignorant bigot or racist wasn't frowned upon so much. Poor them. The world has gone PC mad.

I agree with you 100% there garro but I would term you examples to be multi-culturalsim or any number of similar terms where tolerance and respect being the cornerstone.

However the seeming endless extention of this to all aspects of UK life (to focus on the area I have experience) is actually damaging the real issues like inequalities in race, gender, religion, sexual orientation etc.

Two examples from my past.

When I was at school the teacher wrote with chalk on a blackboard. We had many coloured pupils and, to my knowledge, nobodt ever associated the "black" in blackboard with coloured students neither innocently nor derogatively. Now it hs to be called a chalkboard. Big issue? No bu,t then the original term was no issue.

Spastic was a term that was applied to anybody who muffed a shot in front of goal or dropped an easy catch. It was also used as a derogatory term to describe anybody who didn't fit in. Spastic was also a term used by society to describe handicapped people and we had the Spastics Society charity. Thus it's demise in usage is one example where PC, if you want to use that term, has had a positive effect but it happened way before PC was invented so I would term it tolerance and/or respect.

In a true multi-cultural society all people should be free to live their lives, within certain legal constraints, without fear. If an immigrant to the UK from the DRC wishes to fly his national flag above his home he should be free to do so as should people from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Provided any immigrant attempts to integrate within British society they should be allowed to do so whilst maybe maintaining some link with their past. All the world's migrants have torn up their roots and relocated in search of a better life, including those on this forum, but it doesn't mean to say they have to forget their past. Neither does it say that their host country has to drop all it's customs and values to avoid upset.

I have noticed on my return trips to the UK since all this PC nonsense started to spiral out of control that the country is becoming more "ist" (racist etc) as the ordinary people rebel against the perceived affront to our society.

Sorry for the rambling reply a little off topic as the OP was going on about the attitudes on this forum but then they merely reflect the attitudes in life.

btw I though political correctness on ThaiVisa meant that PPP/UDD/Thaksin are correct and the Democrats/PAD are a bunch of fascist terrorists who should have been cluster bombed at government house and on their exit from the airport.

Well Thailand hasn't signed the treaty yet.

[HorseDoctor]

Guesthouse most be the longest surviving troll in the history of TV.

Well done mate.

GuestHouse enjoys uniform respectability on this forum .

You're the troll and a most prolific one , as you only joined last week and have over 130 toxic tirades thus far..

I"d like to say I find it odd that the word " Girl" is used regularly to denote fully grown women.

It's as if the term "woman" is a bad word ..or the implication of of equal status is perhaps what's bothersome ?

It seems if women are considered sexually attractive then they must be " girls "

Women who CENSORED for a livling are always " girls "

Even the newspapers will call women in headlines , such as adult sporting teams " Girls"

but male athletes, unless under the age of 18 are always " Men " not boys .

Not "guys ", but men , so it's not just slang .

" This is about how language defines a role , and how women are still " Girls" unless thay are too old to be sexually desirable, (like what guys, over 35-40? )Then they can be" ladies " like the" Ladies" board on this forum .

Where we all hold our knees together, drink teas and discuss how we can help...children.

this is not slang talk it is about real chauvanism and how language is used to imply subjugation

We are girls or ladies or chicks or skirts or a myriad of other demeaning terms ..but never women.

Of course I know the sexist factor is way up there in this predominately male group on Thai visa , but every increment of (un) conciousness raised helps.

( Thanks GuestHouse. You're my favorite. )

"A genuinely liberal view of life translated into action, however, should be enough to ensure the vulnerable in society are not victimized." (Xangsamhua)

Yes so this is where TV members generally have a problem.

Edited December 14, 2008 by HorseDoctor

[taxexile]

but what is its relevance to the PC issue?

i believe that pc has always been with us , as the powers that try to control us try to control our thinking processes too.

from the imposition of religious doctrine a la spanish inquisition style , to the imposition of controls over how we express ourselves these days.

free speech is a fundamental right.

if someone , for whatever misguided reason , dislikes , hates or otherwise looks down on blacks , whites , jews , moslems , gays , the disabled and the disfigured , or any other of societies myriad groupings then let them speak their thoughts and be judged accordingly on them.

know your enemy

to legislate against it is wrong , and if we are all made to speak the same anodyne pc language , then nobody will know what anybody else REALLY thinks.

unless plain speaking is allowed , clear thinking is denied.

Political correctness gone bad

Banning offensive words means people with vile opinions can hide their prejudice more easily.

Let them speak and be judgedComments (281)

Ally Fogg guardian.co.uk, Saturday 19 July 2008 12.00 BST

Words form the thread on which we string our experiences, as Aldous Huxley wisely observed, but they do more than that. Words form the necklace of beads, baubles and pearls that we display to the world. They form the millstones round our necks, and sometimes even the ropes with which we hang ourselves.

Like Ziauddin Sardar and Tom Hampson and Jemima Olchawski, I think it is reprehensible to use language that stigmatises, demonises and degrades whole sections of society. I agree that language informs attitudes and perceptions, and so influences behaviour, but that is not all. Language offers a window into the hearts of our fellow human beings. I, for one, am reluctant to see that window veiled.

People are perfectly entitled to use any words they like. I don't like the word "chav" any more than Zoe Williams does, but I couldn't care less if someone uses it about specific deserving individuals, in a self-deprecating reference, or in a decent joke.

She or he is also entitled to use it as a blanket catch-all shorthand for the poorest and most marginalised in society, or for the wider working class, and in return I am free to believe that such a person is a repugnant, heartless, supercilious snob. Similarly, anyone who uses a grossly sexist, racist, homophobic or bigoted epithet within my radar is unlikely to get a sympathetic hearing for the rest of our – probably short – engagement.

I realise this is a prejudice, and I may occasionally do an injustice to some kind-hearted but clumsy tongued soul, but to be honest I think I can live with the loss.

I can also live with the implications for my own choice of words. I'm fully aware that if I lovingly quote Nye Bevan saying, "Tories are lower than vermin", then I will offend many Conservatives and probably their relatives too. Or if (as I often do after a couple of drinks) I propose a solution to the problem of over-breeding among our lazy, feckless, parasitic aristocratic classes, involving a twin-pronged strategy of 1. Killing and 2. Eating, then I fully expect to be dismissed and stereotyped as a bitter, irrational, not to mention unoriginal class warrior. Like I say, I can live with that.

Language evolves, and as it does, I fully support efforts to steer it away from gender bias, and strip away from everyday discourse terms that stereotype, diminish or dehumanise sections of society. That requires ongoing debate about what is objectionable in which circumstances, and more importantly, why. That debate happens in workplaces, in pubs, in schools, on internet forums and wherever else people argue.

I'd be delighted if we could all feel confident in challenging attitudes that demean others and divide us as a society. But that is for us to decide. Yes, all of us. It simply does not help to have the likes of the Fabian Society or the Equality and Human Rights Commission laying down the latest list of forbidden words, with all the self-appointed arrogance of a Guide to Modern Etiquette. That totally misses the point.

It is not words that sometimes need challenging, but the attitudes behind them. Sardar is right to say that words shape attitudes, but he forgets that attitudes shape words to a far greater extent. Ideological proponents of political correctness make a huge error in thinking that offensive words themselves, those little strings of sounds or squiggly letters, are the problem. They're not, they are just words. The problem is that people want to use them in the first place.

If we are not free to convey our honest beliefs, then our honest beliefs will never be challenged, and our conflicting opinions will never be fully explored. That cannot be healthy for any democracy, but worse – it actively undermines efforts to build a fairer, better society.

[HorseDoctor]

The problem is that the anti-PC brigade miss 'the good old days' when you could openly call black people 'darkies' or 'coons' and call the disabled 'spastics'. They resent the fact that society wants to try and control the worst aspects of the darker side of their natures. They fondly remember the days when you could openly spit on your neighbor (or worse) because they looked or spoke different or because they went to a different church. They miss the days when being an ignorant bigot or racist wasn't frowned upon so much. Poor them. The world has gone PC mad.

Were that all being PC represented I'd have no problem with it, but it has been hijacked by certain persons ( usually of the female gender ) to advance stupid political policies, and relies on the desire by everyone else not to oppose them for fear of being PC uncorrect. Eg, the British home secretary is trying to eliminate ALL prostitution by criminalising the customer. The rational is that it is to combat trafficking, but overlooks the fact that most prostitution is by persons who CHOOSE to earn money that way. As most male MPs are afraid to speak out against this idiocy as they would look PC uncorrect, it will probably become law. The prostitutes collective has spoken out against it, saying that the police should deal with trafficking, and trying to eliminate prostitution will just drive it underground, making it worse for all women involved.

Incidentally, New Zealand, which is sickeningly PC, has legalised prostitution, and it has been a great success.

IMO, being PC is the last refuge of man hating women, and their spineless sycophantic male camp followers.

Oh, so those nasty PC crowd are trying to interfere with your right to openly buy sex. How dare they. I hate to break the bad news to you, but going with prostitutes was frowned upon long before the PC crowd arrived on the scene. Anyway, even many of my politically incorrect friends look upon those who pay for sex as degenerates or 'saddos'.

Any TRUE feminist will tell you

Criminalization of CENSORED is all about suppression of women, which is why it's illegal in Thailand, even though it's in every corner bar. It's the ultimate sexism, men profit from a woman's own genitalia.

Legalize it and it's only the women who profit, criminalize it and the women become victimized through corruption and pandering.

[mc2]

but what is its relevance to the PC issue?

i believe that pc has always been with us , as the powers that try to control us try to control our thinking processes too.

from the imposition of religious doctrine a la spanish inquisition style , to the imposition of controls over how we express ourselves these days.

free speech is a fundamental right.

if someone , for whatever misguided reason , dislikes , hates or otherwise looks down on blacks , whites , jews , moslems , gays , the disabled and the disfigured , or any other of societies myriad groupings then let them speak their thoughts and be judged accordingly on them.

know your enemy

to legislate against it is wrong , and if we are all made to speak the same anodyne pc language , then nobody will know what anybody else REALLY thinks.

unless plain speaking is allowed , clear thinking is denied.

Political correctness gone bad

Banning offensive words means people with vile opinions can hide their prejudice more easily.

Let them speak and be judgedComments (281)

Ally Fogg guardian.co.uk, Saturday 19 July 2008 12.00 BST

Words form the thread on which we string our experiences, as Aldous Huxley wisely observed, but they do more than that. Words form the necklace of beads, baubles and pearls that we display to the world. They form the millstones round our necks, and sometimes even the ropes with which we hang ourselves.

Like Ziauddin Sardar and Tom Hampson and Jemima Olchawski, I think it is reprehensible to use language that stigmatises, demonises and degrades whole sections of society. I agree that language informs attitudes and perceptions, and so influences behaviour, but that is not all. Language offers a window into the hearts of our fellow human beings. I, for one, am reluctant to see that window veiled.

People are perfectly entitled to use any words they like. I don't like the word "chav" any more than Zoe Williams does, but I couldn't care less if someone uses it about specific deserving individuals, in a self-deprecating reference, or in a decent joke.

She or he is also entitled to use it as a blanket catch-all shorthand for the poorest and most marginalised in society, or for the wider working class, and in return I am free to believe that such a person is a repugnant, heartless, supercilious snob. Similarly, anyone who uses a grossly sexist, racist, homophobic or bigoted epithet within my radar is unlikely to get a sympathetic hearing for the rest of our – probably short – engagement.

I realise this is a prejudice, and I may occasionally do an injustice to some kind-hearted but clumsy tongued soul, but to be honest I think I can live with the loss.

I can also live with the implications for my own choice of words. I'm fully aware that if I lovingly quote Nye Bevan saying, "Tories are lower than vermin", then I will offend many Conservatives and probably their relatives too. Or if (as I often do after a couple of drinks) I propose a solution to the problem of over-breeding among our lazy, feckless, parasitic aristocratic classes, involving a twin-pronged strategy of 1. Killing and 2. Eating, then I fully expect to be dismissed and stereotyped as a bitter, irrational, not to mention unoriginal class warrior. Like I say, I can live with that.

Language evolves, and as it does, I fully support efforts to steer it away from gender bias, and strip away from everyday discourse terms that stereotype, diminish or dehumanise sections of society. That requires ongoing debate about what is objectionable in which circumstances, and more importantly, why. That debate happens in workplaces, in pubs, in schools, on internet forums and wherever else people argue.

I'd be delighted if we could all feel confident in challenging attitudes that demean others and divide us as a society. But that is for us to decide. Yes, all of us. It simply does not help to have the likes of the Fabian Society or the Equality and Human Rights Commission laying down the latest list of forbidden words, with all the self-appointed arrogance of a Guide to Modern Etiquette. That totally misses the point.

It is not words that sometimes need challenging, but the attitudes behind them. Sardar is right to say that words shape attitudes, but he forgets that attitudes shape words to a far greater extent. Ideological proponents of political correctness make a huge error in thinking that offensive words themselves, those little strings of sounds or squiggly letters, are the problem. They're not, they are just words. The problem is that people want to use them in the first place.

If we are not free to convey our honest beliefs, then our honest beliefs will never be challenged, and our conflicting opinions will never be fully explored. That cannot be healthy for any democracy, but worse – it actively undermines efforts to build a fairer, better society.

yes I agree

however some groups are impressionable eg children, perhaps they should be protected from non pc hatred/nonsense etc lest they be brainwashed . it can infect whole communities and cultures.

[HorseDoctor]

Troll this,troll that,have these posters just learnt a new computer geek word? Some may find the op's subject to have a meaning.Or shall we discuss the weather?

Perhaps that is tied up with this frequent resort to the charge of 'Political Correctness', a need to put a derogatory label on that which one finds too challenging.

Ok It's not my business , but you are way too enlightened.. Are you a woman? Tell me before I fall any more in love cause I'm straight .

[garro]

I suppose the real argument here is how much control should society attempt to impose on its members. Some people argue for almost total freedom in the belief that left to their own devices that people would function better. I doubt this. People argue for total free speech, but fail to acknowledge the dangers inherent in free speech and how people can use it to manipulate others; who either haven't the wit or the motivation to check information.

[taxexile]

the dangers inherent in free speech and how people can use it to manipulate others;

pc is also manipulation.

only good education can give people the tools necessary to make up their own minds.

[So1DoG]

Guesthouse most be the longest surviving troll in the history of TV.

Well done mate.

GuestHouse enjoys uniform respectability on this forum .

You're the troll and a most prolific one , as you only joined last week and have over 130 toxic tirades thus far..

I"d like to say I find it odd that the word " Girl" is used regularly to denote fully grown women.

It's as if the term "woman" is a bad word ..or the implication of of equal status is perhaps what's bothersome ?

It seems if women are considered sexually attractive then they must be " girls "

Women who CENSORED for a livling are always " girls "

Even the newspapers will call women in headlines , such as adult sporting teams " Girls"

but male athletes, unless under the age of 18 are always " Men " not boys .

Not "guys ", but men , so it's not just slang .

" This is about how language defines a role , and how women are still " Girls" unless thay are too old to be sexually desirable, (like what guys, over 35-40? )Then they can be" ladies " like the" Ladies" board on this forum .

Where we all hold our knees together, drink teas and discuss how we can help...children.

this is not slang talk it is about real chauvanism and how language is used to imply subjugation

We are girls or ladies or chicks or skirts or a myriad of other demeaning terms ..but never women.

Of course I know the sexist factor is way up there in this predominately male group on Thai visa , but every increment of (un) conciousness raised helps.

( Thanks GuestHouse. You're my favorite. )

"A genuinely liberal view of life translated into action, however, should be enough to ensure the vulnerable in society are not victimized." (Xangsamhua)

Yes so this is where TV members generally have a problem.

Are you talking about yourself as well as all of the opposite sex, females! horsedoctor? I cant imagine your hoping to be called a lady when your a man????????? Is there something im missing?

[taxexile]

girls

and i always thought it was a gentle term of endearment !

if the use of a word like "girl" can make you see yourself as the subjugated victim of some imaginary evil male plot , then perhaps you should get out more and consider the plight of some of the worlds true victims .... both male and female.

[tomahawk]

I despise the whole PC obsession and think it is ruining the world. I am a Native American but don't care if someone calls me an Indian. I do it myself. I thought it was stupid when people, especially Indians, got all worked up about football team names like the Redskins. Who cares? I don't want to call black people darkies and neither do many non-PC people I know. I don't think it is a big deal to call women "girls." So what? Same with broads, dames, babes, whatever. I do believe it is wrong to call them the c word, as that is derogatory. Or b-----s, unless they really are one. People call men guys or dudes. Who cares? People are murdering other people in some countries, like Burma and in Africa, by the nthousands. Islamic freaks are trying to kill everybody who doesn't agree with them. Isn't this a bigger problem than calling some woman a girl. I call waitresses back in US "hon", sometimes, and they don't have me arrested or sue me. Perhaps because they are real women who work for a living.

[garro]

the dangers inherent in free speech and how people can use it to manipulate others;

pc is also manipulation.

only good education can give people the tools necessary to make up their own minds.

I would call it control, but I suppose anything you try to control you manipulate. The point is who is doing the manipulation and for what purposes.

Good education would be great, but as I already said this is about wit and motivation.

It has never been so easy to get a good education in the west, and the internet has allowed access to information never before possible. Has this led to a huge rise in balanced educated people and are we now safe to police ourselves in regards to total free speech? I don't think so.

Edited December 14, 2008 by garro

[Pierrot]

Hi, I'm a PC ...

And I'm a Mac !

PC are boring, only one thing to say : get a Jobs !

[HorseDoctor]

girls

and i always thought it was a gentle term of endearment !

if the use of a word like "girl" can make you see yourself as the subjugated victim of some imaginary evil male plot , then perhaps you should get out more and consider the plight of some of the worlds true victims .... both male and female.

Discussing PC ....(not the plight of the world's victims, though maybe you mean victims like " Girls" all over the world undergoing clitorectomies?)

My question remains Why are women " Girls" but men , " Men"

Language reflects the attitude; men are "Men", but women are " Girls"

You really don't see the inequity in the common usage of this term? HOw it supports sexist attitudes?

[rott]

Of course guesthose but this is PC website.

You can say that again, although I'd be banned again if I got on to why.

Thailand's general lack of fascism is a great pull. Conversely, I've never been anywhere that has so many foul racists. There must be a happy medium somewhere?

Yes lets say it again "guesthose" has a much better ring to it.

[Ulysses G.]

girls

and i always thought it was a gentle term of endearment !

if the use of a word like "girl" can make you see yourself as the subjugated victim of some imaginary evil male plot , then perhaps you should get out more and consider the plight of some of the worlds true victims .... both male and female.

Discussing PC ....(not the plight of the world's victims, though maybe you mean victims like " Girls" all over the world undergoing clitorectomies?)

My question remains Why are women " Girls" but men , " Men"

Language reflects the attitude; men are "Men", but women are " Girls"

You really don't see the inequity in the common usage of this term? HOw it supports sexist attitudes?

I can't take this anymore. I'm going out with the boys!

[HorseDoctor]

I despise the whole PC obsession and think it is ruining the world. I am a Native American but don't care if someone calls me an Indian. I do it myself. I thought it was stupid when people, especially Indians, got all worked up about football team names like the Redskins. Who cares? I don't want to call black people darkies and neither do many non-PC people I know. I don't think it is a big deal to call women "girls." So what? Same with broads, dames, babes, whatever. I do believe it is wrong to call them the c word, as that is derogatory. Or b-----s, unless they really are one. People call men guys or dudes. Who cares? People are murdering other people in some countries, like Burma and in Africa, by the nthousands. Islamic freaks are trying to kill everybody who doesn't agree with them. Isn't this a bigger problem than calling some woman a girl. I call waitresses back in US "hon", sometimes, and they don't have me arrested or sue me. Perhaps because they are real women who work for a living.

Calling women girls is a symptom of a systemic inequity for women. If this were to be exised, perhaps there would be less war and murder in the world. Cuntries ( !) that have closer to 50 % female representation in govt are more stable , have less crime and less war .

[taxexile]

You really don't see the inequity in the common usage of this term? HOw it supports sexist attitudes?

listen love , you really are ridiculous , you poor hard done by lady. life must be absolutely terrible for you. i dont know how you can live when you are assailed by such intolerable horrors on a daily basis.

lets all have a group hug , yellow ribbon campaign , and a joan armatrading concert in hyde park for you.

Edited December 14, 2008 by taxexile

[rott]

I despise the whole PC obsession and think it is ruining the world. I am a Native American but don't care if someone calls me an Indian. I do it myself. I thought it was stupid when people, especially Indians, got all worked up about football team names like the Redskins. Who cares? I don't want to call black people darkies and neither do many non-PC people I know. I don't think it is a big deal to call women "girls." So what? Same with broads, dames, babes, whatever. I do believe it is wrong to call them the c word, as that is derogatory. Or b-----s, unless they really are one. People call men guys or dudes. Who cares? People are murdering other people in some countries, like Burma and in Africa, by the nthousands. Islamic freaks are trying to kill everybody who doesn't agree with them. Isn't this a bigger problem than calling some woman a girl. I call waitresses back in US "hon", sometimes, and they don't have me arrested or sue me. Perhaps because they are real women who work for a living.

Calling women girls is a symptom of a systemic inequity for women. If this were to be exised, perhaps there would be less war and murder in the world. Cuntries ( !) that have closer to 50 % female representation in govt are more stable , have less crime and less war .

Sounds interesting, please name a few.

[HorseDoctor]

You really don't see the inequity in the common usage of this term? HOw it supports sexist attitudes?

listen love , you really are ridiculous , you poor hard done by lady. life must be absolutely terrible for you. i dont know how you can live when you are assailed by such intolerable horrors on a daily basis.

lets all have a group hug , yellow ribbon campaign , and a joan armatrading concert in hyde park for you.

Sarcasm in lieu of an argument, are you channeling Bendix?

So you think calling women "girls" ( or love or lady ) is in no way indicative of sexism ?

[bassmaster50]

After working 25 years in prison, I retired because of this PC crap. Convicts used to be convicts, then they were inmates, now they are residents. I was the watch commander, and someone had posted a wanted poster of Bin Laden near the gate, saying "wanted:dead or alive", which is in fact true. The superintendent, a woman who never did anything in her whole career except order paper clips and stuff and knew less about prison thn most of people on this forum, ordered it taken down as it was "offensive."

To whom, Al Qaeda? I refused, and needlless to say was written up. Then when the Bloods were on a big spree of cutting up the other inmates, I ordered the officers to search any black inmates on the walkway wearing red. The bloods are all black, and they wear red. Supt. ordered this stopped as it was "profiling." So I had to search a bunch of white guys, which was a waste of time and the bloods kept cutting everybody up. Some female civilian employee filed charges against me for using foul language to some convicted felons. The low point was when I went to the mess hall wearing sunglasses and black gloves. It was cold and sunny, but I had to give a written answer to complaint filed by numerous inmates stating that they were "intimidated' by my gloves and sunglasses. There were 300 convicted criminals, who do nothing but pump iron all day, in mess hall, yet they were intimidated by my gloves and glasses. After this an order came out saying guards must wear only blue gloves. Since I couldn't profile some corrupt guards,who happend to be black, I went to lineup sayoing I would bust anybody I caught bringing in crap to convicts, and if anyone didnt like it I would take off my lieutenant's bars and we could settle it man to man in the parking lot, which used to be common practice. These guys however, wrote a big letter and posted it on the wall saying they were offended and intimidated. Young guys did this, as the old guys thought I did the right thing. I ended up suspended for a year without pay. I retired shortly thereafter.

[spiderman2]

the dangers inherent in free speech and how people can use it to manipulate others;

pc is also manipulation.

only good education can give people the tools necessary to make up their own minds.

So people who are uneducated cant make up their own minds........see why youre in LOS fascist.

[HorseDoctor]

You really don't see the inequity in the common usage of this term? HOw it supports sexist attitudes?

listen love , you really are ridiculous , you poor hard done by lady. life must be absolutely terrible for you. i dont know how you can live when you are assailed by such intolerable horrors on a daily basis.

lets all have a group hug , yellow ribbon campaign , and a joan armatrading concert in hyde park for you.

Sarcasm in lieu of an argument, are you channeling Bendix?

So you think calling women "girls" ( or love or lady ) is in no way indicative of sexism ?

Countries with highe female representation are

Sweden , The Netherlands, France and interestingly, since the genocide, Rwanda. Liberia is rising and both these Afrian countiries are making huge strides toward human rights since their genocidal male leaders have been overthrown

[taxexile]

So you think calling women "girls" ( or love or lady ) is in no way indicative of sexism ?

not in the slightest.

as i said , its a gentle term of affection , i think you are taking it far too seriously.

Political correctness is just another tool used by feminism to advance their mostly misguided agenda. But instead of channeling energies and anger towards those societies and cultures that really do abuse women on a grand scale you get feminists complaining about how sexist signs that have 'male' shaped people on them are demeaning to women and other such nonsensical campaigns.

all you succeed in doing is making the feminist cause a laughing stock to the males that you seek to address.

Edited December 14, 2008 by taxexile

[mc2]

girls

and i always thought it was a gentle term of endearment !

if the use of a word like "girl" can make you see yourself as the subjugated victim of some imaginary evil male plot , then perhaps you should get out more and consider the plight of some of the worlds true victims .... both male and female.

Discussing PC ....(not the plight of the world's victims, though maybe you mean victims like " Girls" all over the world undergoing clitorectomies?)

My question remains Why are women " Girls" but men , " Men"

Language reflects the attitude; men are "Men", but women are " Girls"

You really don't see the inequity in the common usage of this term? HOw it supports sexist attitudes?

I suppose you are right ,

people should take more responsiblity for their use of language.

[garro]

After working 25 years in prison, I retired because of this PC crap. Convicts used to be convicts, then they were inmates, now they are residents. I was the watch commander, and someone had posted a wanted poster of Bin Laden near the gate, saying "wanted:dead or alive", which is in fact true. The superintendent, a woman who never did anything in her whole career except order paper clips and stuff and knew less about prison thn most of people on this forum, ordered it taken down as it was "offensive."

To whom, Al Qaeda? I refused, and needlless to say was written up. Then when the Bloods were on a big spree of cutting up the other inmates, I ordered the officers to search any black inmates on the walkway wearing red. The bloods are all black, and they wear red. Supt. ordered this stopped as it was "profiling." So I had to search a bunch of white guys, which was a waste of time and the bloods kept cutting everybody up. Some female civilian employee filed charges against me for using foul language to some convicted felons. The low point was when I went to the mess hall wearing sunglasses and black gloves. It was cold and sunny, but I had to give a written answer to complaint filed by numerous inmates stating that they were "intimidated' by my gloves and sunglasses. There were 300 convicted criminals, who do nothing but pump iron all day, in mess hall, yet they were intimidated by my gloves and glasses. After this an order came out saying guards must wear only blue gloves. Since I couldn't profile some corrupt guards,who happend to be black, I went to lineup sayoing I would bust anybody I caught bringing in crap to convicts, and if anyone didnt like it I would take off my lieutenant's bars and we could settle it man to man in the parking lot, which used to be common practice. These guys however, wrote a big letter and posted it on the wall saying they were offended and intimidated. Young guys did this, as the old guys thought I did the right thing. I ended up suspended for a year without pay. I retired shortly thereafter.

I suppose a lot of prison guards miss the days when they could abuse prisoners without any fear of accountability. It must have felt great to have that type of power. Not that I'm saying that you were like this of course.

[spiderman2]

I suppose a lot of prison guards miss the days when they could abuse prisoners without any fear of accountability. It must have felt great to have that type of power. Not that I'm saying that you were like this of course.

But youre insinuating it.

[StreetCowboy]

I think the OP raised the issue of political correctness to invite discussion on how tolerance of other religions, faiths, genders etc. was being extended to prevent or discourage participation in the "majority" religion, and being applied to matters out of context - e.g. requiring that blackboards are called chalkboards...

I am reminded of an anecdote from a colleague of mine. He was asked to get a new printer cartridge and ended up getting a disciplinary lecture for the simple query "Black or coloured?".

My objections to political correctness include:-

1, The denial of religous poriveliges to the majority, simply because those rights are not equally given to every minority (for example, removal of religion from schools); in my view, people who wish their child to be educated in a catholic or muslim or animalist school should be free to set up such a school, and if it can fulfil the educational and administrative requirements, it should be provided with the same support that the "main stream" schools are provided. The fact that there is not sufficient support for such a school is not prejudice or discrimination, it is misfortune. FUrthermore, despite a lack of practicing faith, society in (for example) the UK is based on christian morals and teachings, and there are significant benefits in being educated in and understanding those teachings, regardless of whether you believe in either the detail or the principles. So I object to political correctness when it is used to try to suppress the faith of the nation. Tolerance does not dictate equality. To achieve equality, people should strive for the same privileges, rather than seeking to deny privileges to others.

2. Hijacking language; the inference of discriminatory or bigoted thinking when there is none. This is Orwellian, and, I think, counterproductive. Insisting on irrelevant political correctness (chalkboard instead of blackboard, chairperson instead of chairman...) invites ridicule which is then misapplied to tolerance in general and reinforces bigotry that may otherwise have withered through neglect.

SC

[garro]

I suppose a lot of prison guards miss the days when they could abuse prisoners without any fear of accountability. It must have felt great to have that type of power. Not that I'm saying that you were like this of course.

But youre insinuating it.

No, I'm not. I do not know the poster. I am just mentioning a well documented phenomena that occurred prior to the introduction of regulations.

[Ulysses G.]

After working 25 years in prison, I retired because of this PC crap. Convicts used to be convicts, then they were inmates, now they are residents. I was the watch commander, and someone had posted a wanted poster of Bin Laden near the gate, saying "wanted:dead or alive", which is in fact true. The superintendent, a woman who never did anything in her whole career except order paper clips and stuff and knew less about prison thn most of people on this forum, ordered it taken down as it was "offensive."

To whom, Al Qaeda? I refused, and needlless to say was written up. Then when the Bloods were on a big spree of cutting up the other inmates, I ordered the officers to search any black inmates on the walkway wearing red. The bloods are all black, and they wear red. Supt. ordered this stopped as it was "profiling." So I had to search a bunch of white guys, which was a waste of time and the bloods kept cutting everybody up. Some female civilian employee filed charges against me for using foul language to some convicted felons. The low point was when I went to the mess hall wearing sunglasses and black gloves. It was cold and sunny, but I had to give a written answer to complaint filed by numerous inmates stating that they were "intimidated' by my gloves and sunglasses. There were 300 convicted criminals, who do nothing but pump iron all day, in mess hall, yet they were intimidated by my gloves and glasses. After this an order came out saying guards must wear only blue gloves. Since I couldn't profile some corrupt guards,who happend to be black, I went to lineup sayoing I would bust anybody I caught bringing in crap to convicts, and if anyone didnt like it I would take off my lieutenant's bars and we could settle it man to man in the parking lot, which used to be common practice. These guys however, wrote a big letter and posted it on the wall saying they were offended and intimidated. Young guys did this, as the old guys thought I did the right thing. I ended up suspended for a year without pay. I retired shortly thereafter.

I suppose a lot of prison guards miss the days when they could abuse prisoners without any fear of accountability. It must have felt great to have that type of power. Not that I'm saying that you were like this of course.

There are good prison guards just like there are good prisoners. The things that he is complaining about seem reasonable enough.