800k Baht

[Brian2056]

I'm turning 50 in 15 months and have seriously considered cashing im my chips and moving to Thailand from the U.S. I've scoured the Internet for all the visa requirements and frankly, it all sounds like PITA. Visa runs, yearly extensions etc..... but that's hardly a deterent for wanting to settle into the LOS.

One thing that I haven't been able to get a clear understanding of. To get a retirement visa, you need to have transfered 800k bath from overseas to a Thai bank. My question is/are, 1) is this a one time in yuor life money transfer to maintain a retirement visa or 2) one needs to maintain or show 800K baht in a Thai bank at the time of an extension application or 3) you need to annually transfer 800K baht from overseas into a Thai bank for each yearly extension.

I have about 175K US in liquid assets, right now. I have another 120K in a 401K plan. My idea is to cash in (sell house etc) to get the 175K US in my hot little hands. I'd roll over the 401K into some form of an IRA account and leave it untouched until I'm 62 and can draw US social security and begin to tap into the 401K money.

I'm hoping the 175K or so would last until I'm 62 when the SSI kicks in and the 401K money is avalable.

Sound like a viable plan or am I dreaming?

Edited December 21, 2004 by Brian2056

[thaiflyer1]

The idea behind having the 800k in the bank here is to show you have the funds to live off during each 1 years extension to your "retirement" visa.........therefore you should be using this money during the year and replacing it the following year when renewal time comes around. Immigration will be none to happy if you have 800k sat in an account all year with no other activity on the account (they/ll think you are working to support yourself here). Alternatively you can show a monthly income of 65k baht (verifyable...sp? ) or any combination thereof..........i.e 400k in the bank and the remaining 400k being spread over 12 months as monthly income (remitted into a thai bank account and verifyable). Obviously you must be 50 before you qualify for any long stay extension. With your funds it should be doable.

Edited December 21, 2004 by thaiflyer1

[Brian2056]

OK, I think I got it. Drop the 800K in a Thai bank and ATM that money as needed as I go along in daily life. When time for visa renewal rolls around, transfer the needed balance, 500K for example to bring up the existing balance to show the 800K baht in the bank at renewal time. I got that right?

[lopburi3]

You got it.

[expatgaz]

I'm turning 50 in 15 months and have seriously considered cashing im my chips and moving to Thailand from the U.S. I've scoured the Internet for all the visa requirements and frankly, it all sounds like PITA. Visa runs, yearly extensions etc..... but that's hardly a deterent for wanting to settle into the LOS. 

One thing that I haven't been able to get a clear understanding of. To get a retirement visa, you need to have transfered 800k bath from overseas to a Thai bank. My question is/are, 1) is this a one time in yuor life money transfer to maintain a retirement visa or 2) one needs to maintain or show 800K baht in a Thai bank at the time of an extension application or 3) you need to annually transfer 800K baht from overseas into a Thai bank for each yearly extension.

I have about 175K US in liquid assets, right now. I have another 120K in a 401K plan. My idea is to cash in (sell house etc) to get the 175K US in my hot little hands. I'd roll over the 401K into some form of an IRA account and leave it untouched until I'm 62 and can draw US social security and begin to tap into the 401K money.

I'm hoping the 175K or so would last until I'm 62 when the SSI kicks in and the 401K money is avalable.

Sound like a viable plan or am I dreaming?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brian $ 175 k is abt 7 mil baht, you say you hope to live on that until your 62 ? that means 12 years. If your relocating here wont you need a place to live aswell ? Seems to me that if you reckon on 7 mil to last 12 years you are planning on being one cheap charlie. I thought the plan was to enjoy retirement ???

[thaiflyer1]

Brian $ 175 k is abt 7 mil baht, you say you hope to live on that until your 62 ? that means 12 years.

I think he/ll be ok............remember the 175k is going to be earning interest as he goes along.All depends on the type of lifestlye he wishes to lead

Edited December 21, 2004 by thaiflyer1

[ProThaiExpat]

lopburi3 or anyone: As you know U.S. Social Security recipients receive an annual official letter from the SSA stating what the benefit will be per month for the following years.

A PM question I got was would this official U.S. Government Letter sent to the recipent's Thai address be sufficient to demonstrate to Immigration that it was a

bona-fide pension or is an Embassy letter still required.

Ever hear of anyone getting by with just the letter from SSA? Opinions?

[Hans Brix]

I'm turning 50 in 15 months and have seriously considered cashing im my chips and moving to Thailand from the U.S. I've scoured the Internet for all the visa requirements and frankly, it all sounds like PITA. Visa runs, yearly extensions etc..... but that's hardly a deterent for wanting to settle into the LOS. 

One thing that I haven't been able to get a clear understanding of. To get a retirement visa, you need to have transfered 800k bath from overseas to a Thai bank. My question is/are, 1) is this a one time in yuor life money transfer to maintain a retirement visa or 2) one needs to maintain or show 800K baht in a Thai bank at the time of an extension application or 3) you need to annually transfer 800K baht from overseas into a Thai bank for each yearly extension.

I have about 175K US in liquid assets, right now. I have another 120K in a 401K plan. My idea is to cash in (sell house etc) to get the 175K US in my hot little hands. I'd roll over the 401K into some form of an IRA account and leave it untouched until I'm 62 and can draw US social security and begin to tap into the 401K money.

I'm hoping the 175K or so would last until I'm 62 when the SSI kicks in and the 401K money is avalable.

Sound like a viable plan or am I dreaming?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you are dreaming, sure

[Hans Brix]

lopburi3 or anyone:  As you know U.S. Social Security recipients receive an annual official letter from the SSA stating what the benefit will be per month for the following years.

A PM question I got was would this official U.S. Government Letter sent to the recipent's Thai address be sufficient to demonstrate to Immigration that it was a

bona-fide pension or is an Embassy letter still required.

Ever hear of anyone getting by with just the letter from SSA?  Opinions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my SS letter was scoffed at by the Penang consulate so I'd say the answer is certifiably no

[Brian2056]

Brian $ 175 k is abt 7 mil baht, you say you hope to live on that until your 62 ? that means 12 years. If your relocating here wont you need a place to live aswell ? Seems to me that if you reckon on 7 mil to last 12 years you are planning on being one cheap charlie. I thought the plan was to enjoy retirement ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I know 7 million baht puts me on the 50K baht/month plan. I wouldn't try this in BKK, Phuket or Pattaya. I know it's doable but not without some sacrafices. Perhaps in Udon where the COL is cheaper. My real problem is itchy feet and I want to get my arse to LOS ASAP.

I own a start-up business that will do maybe a 100K in the first year and perhaps 200K the second year. With a little patience and the ever rising California real estate market, in two years that 175K could easily be in the 250-300K or more range. I'd feel much better about that and knowing the 120K 401K money should be worth 200K or more by the time I hit 62.

I don't need an oppulant lifestyle but I'd like to enjoy my beer, golf and side trips the the P.I. once in a while, live in a decent house or condo. You get the picture.

[lopburi3]

lopburi3 or anyone:  As you know U.S. Social Security recipients receive an annual official letter from the SSA stating what the benefit will be per month for the following years.

A PM question I got was would this official U.S. Government Letter sent to the recipent's Thai address be sufficient to demonstrate to Immigration that it was a

bona-fide pension or is an Embassy letter still required.

Ever hear of anyone getting by with just the letter from SSA?  Opinions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Believe "retirement" requires a letter from Embassy but do not do this type so no first hand information.

It should be fine for "support Thai wife" request for income source information however. I do not receive SSA but give them copy of my OPM annuity pay change slip that is mailed to me each year.

[wimpy]

I'm hoping the 175K or so would last until I'm 62 when the SSI kicks in and the 401K money is avalable.

Sound like a viable plan or am I dreaming?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Definitely doable. Especially if you are living in a place like Chiang Mai.

If it were me, I would dollar cost average into several stock mutual funds (with differing disciplines) that have outstanding long term growth records. Look for funds that have never been down more than two years in a row – over the past ten years. Pull out your living expenses on a yearly basis.

If you have the discipline to live within a budget, I would expect you will do just fine.

[lopburi3]

I own a start-up business that will do maybe a 100K in the first year and perhaps 200K the second year. With a little patience and the ever rising California real estate market, in two years that 175K could easily be in the 250-300K or more range. I'd feel much better about that and knowing the 120K 401K money should be worth 200K or more by the time I hit 62.

I don't need an oppulant lifestyle but I'd like to enjoy my beer, golf and side trips the the P.I. once in a while, live in a decent house or condo. You get the picture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In that case I would take the extra couple of years to build the nest egg and come here with double the assets in two or three years. You will still be retired earlier than most and should have time and the money to enjoy your remaining life.

Edited December 22, 2004 by lopburi3

[PeaceBlondie]

Regarding that printed statement that the USA SSA provides to its working citizens. It's prospective until you turn 62. Unless you specify otherwise, the SSA calculates the amounts at age 62 and later on the assumption you'll continue working at your present income until age 62. As soon as you talk about retiring many years before age 62, the calculation isn't worth the paper it was printed on. There are online calculators at www.ssa.org that let you do your own calculation on the basis of not working anymore, but they're not official.

brian, it sounds pretty speculative: the start up business, the California real estate market, etc. I agree that staying home a few more years makes more sense. I stayed until I was 56.

My apologies if we're getting off topic.

Edited December 22, 2004 by PeaceBlondie

[Hans Brix]

You can always come and move here to itch your scratch and when you run out of money some years down the road, go back to work. you will run out of cash guaranteed. youre kidding yourself

[Brian2056]

You can always come and move here to itch your scratch and when you run out of money some years down the road, go back to work. you will run out of cash guaranteed. youre kidding yourself

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not really kidding myself which is why in reality, I won't make a move for a few more years. I'm in the feeling it out stage.

The type of biz I'm in will gross roughly 200K a year prolly starting next year. Not speculative, all these franchises do that much or more. I'm thinking once the biz is rolling, I turn it over to my son and peel off 10-15% of the gross and I'm good to go.

Or, I roll to Thailand once or twice a year for some itch scratching.

[harpman88]

Hi Brian,I was going to suggest that if you decide to go to Tland sooner rather than later,to only keep in your Thai bank acct.what you need to live on and have for visa purposes.

keep the rest in a money mkt.(assuming you dont want to put any of your principal at risk) I

have mine with Vanguard (tax exempt money mkt) Vgd. has the lowest expenses in the industry. Anyway this way your 175K would be earning

a much better return than in any bank acct.while maintaining a steady $ net asset value.But you seem to have your situation well in hand. I was hoping you were going to respond to Hans'posts. He implies you would automatically run out of money,that indicates to me that if he were in your shoes, HE would run out of money.. Alternatively,you could consult a fee only financial planner,

he/she could set up an asset allocation for you with that 175K based on your tolerance for risk and time horizon.I went with garrett planning network as they deal with people from all walks of life and financial conditions. (So far so good there as far as Im concerned) Their website,garrettplanningnetwork.com would be the place to start.

Anyway Im of the conviction that one should never listen to anyone who tries to convince you that what you're contemplating is too unrealistic or too hard.You've got to "go for what you know". All the best .the Harpman.

DISCLAIMER: Im not affiliated in any way, shape, or form with Vanguard or the Garrett network,merely a satisfied customer!

[Ken]

Hi Brian,I was going to suggest that if you decide to go to Tland sooner rather than later,to only keep in your Thai bank acct.what you need to live on and have for visa purposes.

keep the rest in a money mkt.(assuming you dont want to put any of your principal at risk) I

have mine with Vanguard (tax exempt money mkt) Vgd. has the lowest expenses in the industry. Anyway this way your 175K would be earning

a much better return than in any bank acct.while maintaining a steady $ net asset value.But you seem to have your situation well in hand. I was hoping you were going to respond to Hans'posts. He implies you would automatically run out of money,that indicates to me that if he were in your shoes, HE would run out of money.. Alternatively,you could consult a fee only financial planner,

he/she could set up an asset allocation for you with that 175K based on your tolerance for risk and time horizon.I went with garrett planning network as they deal with people from all walks of life and financial conditions. (So far so good there as far as Im concerned) Their website,garrettplanningnetwork.com would be the place to start.

  Anyway Im of the conviction that one should never listen to anyone who tries to convince you that what you're contemplating is too unrealistic or too hard.You've got to "go for what you know". All the best .the Harpman.

DISCLAIMER: Im not affiliated in any way, shape, or form with Vanguard or the Garrett network,merely a satisfied customer!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Got to agree with the above post. Sometimes the opinions of a few of the posts here about what it takes to live in Thailand are way out (high) from what I know a lot of people are living very well on. For sure, it all depends on a number of things like where you plan on living in Thailand, what are your needs/habits. No question, the more money the better, and that can be said about anything in life, but if you wait too long it just might mean you waited too long in the end. Set your priorities and then make the move that YOU feel good about.

Merrry Christmas.

[Thaiquila]

Some points about retirement money for US citizens.

You can start drawing on your IRA/401K funds at age 59 1/2 without any penalty; you do not have to wait until age 62.

Not a lot of people know this, but you might need this idea. It is indeed possible to start drawing of IRA/401K funds BEFORE age 59 1/2 without any penalty, if you are willing to consult with a tax pro and follow a set of rules based on some quite arcane formulas (having to do with life expancy). In these schemes, you are required to set a start date for the draw and continue the draw every year based on these rules. This is not a do it yourself thing. But if done properly it is totally legal.

There is more than a fair chance the minimum Social Security draw age might be made higher, to deal with the crisis of the baby boomers retiring. Almostly certainly, the age to get full Social Security benefits will be raised from the current age 65.

Edited December 25, 2004 by Thaiquila

[PeaceBlondie]

Some points about retirement money for US citizens.

You can start drawing on your IRA/401K funds at age 59 1/2 without any penalty; you do not have to wait until age 62.

Not a lot of people know this, but you might need this idea. It is indeed possible to start drawing of IRA/401K funds BEFORE age 59 1/2 without any penalty, if you are willing to consult with a tax pro and follow a set of rules based on some quite arcane formulas (having to do with life expancy). In these schemes, you are required to set a start date for the draw and continue the draw every year based on these rules. This is not a do it yourself thing. But if done properly it is totally legal.

There is more than a fair chance the minimum Social Security draw age might be made higher, to deal with the crisis of the baby boomers retiring. Almostly certainly, the age to get full Social Security benefits will be raised from the current age 65.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good points, Thaiquila, about IRA money before age 60. But SS benefits are already past age 65 for full amount. If you turned age 62 this year, as I did, the full age is 65 years and 10 months. Check www.ssa.gov for 'retirement age' and you'll see that for somebody born after 1954, the age slides from 66 and to age 67.

If Bush is serious about reforming SS without raising FICA/SE taxes, these retirement dates will slide further up the scale of antiquity. Possibly to age 69 or 70. And then they can further fiddle with the adjustment factor for retiring with partial benefits earlier. My guess is that they'll start with those born after 1954 or 1960, and hit them hard.

Edited December 25, 2004 by PeaceBlondie

[harpman88]

Thaiquila,Peace Blondie: Your statements about the SS system are precisely why some of us refer to it as socialIST INsecurity!

I feel so blessed that I got in early enough to be under the U.S.

Civil Service Retirement system.

(Which was discontinued in 1984 when the Thrift Savings Plan began) TSP is nothing but government jargon for a 401K plan. Only when TSP began were govt. employees forced to contribute to the SS system as part of TSP. (At least TSP people can get a "free money" match,up to a certain percentage of their contributions..

not a bad deal there!) All the best the Harpman.

[Limbo]

Thank you for the information that also in the USA people have to work longer in future. The same tendency exists in Europe.

It seems to be a race at which side of the ocean people have to work more and longer.

Some years ago people in the USA were working in average almost three weeks more a year than in Europe. I don't know how it is now. People over sixty hardly work in Europe. They(so 'we') expect this to change in future.

I think the Swedish system is best (they actually are best in many things and itis not a Swede saying this): you can choose when you retire within a certain range.

Does this add something to our quality of life? I don't like to work and I never did.

50.000 Baht a month is really enough. At least if you look for quality in life. It is easy to spend to more, but it doesn't really add to your happiness. It leads to hang-overs, frustrations. It might just finance the remnants of your rat-race instincts. It is going to be car bigger than you need, super sized televison sets and so on.

Pubs and bars with nice chairs, where you can sit and look at yourself in the mirror behind the bar and so on.

You can also sit on a simple wooden thing at a market place in a little dirty outside restaurant. And look at the life around you as if it was a movie. Talk with the people, who are part of Thailand's real life.

The only horrible thing is that they mostly only have beer Chang or Leo.

Enjoy life, don't buy it!

[lopburi3]

Thaiquila,Peace Blondie: Your statements about the SS system are precisely why some of us refer to it as socialIST INsecurity! 

I feel so blessed that I got in early enough to be under the U.S.

Civil Service Retirement system.

(Which was discontinued in 1984 when the Thrift Savings Plan began) TSP is nothing but government jargon for a 401K plan. Only when TSP began were govt. employees forced to contribute to the SS system as part of TSP. (At least TSP people can get a "free money" match,up to a certain percentage of their contributions..

not a bad deal there!) All the best the Harpman.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think you have misunderstood. The Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) was replaced by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) and those in the system had the option to choose. There are provisions of each that are better for some people so it was not a black and white issue.

TSP is a savings account, in the model of 401K, but is only one part of the retirement system itself. And it is also available to those under CSRS at 10% rather than the 15% under FERS. It is a very worthwhile feature for either program.

[harpman88]

Hello Lop,First of all,let me say that Ive nothing at all against FERS/TSP....The tax deferral of the contributions along with the govt. "free money"match make it a very worthwhile program. Albeit not without it's limitations.As with any program of this type,you are limited as to the amount of investment vehicles available(this is why I urge people to supplement FERS,if they can afford to do so,with an IRA

in which you can invest in virtually anything) This is how they can diversify and go beyond what's offered as FERS choices. (FERS offers NO value funds,for instance) Also,there is absolutely no guidance offered as to how they should allocate their contributions.Many people that I know are very confused about this ,and I dont blame them.

This is where a good fee only financial planner would be beneficial..as with very few exceptions,most all the FERS people I know have virtually no prior investment experience.Most dont even know what a "portfolio" or "asset allocation" even is!

I also realize that we CSRS people had the option to go into FERS.

But(correct me if Im wrong) we

could not get the govt. match,as those who were"forced" into FERS.( ie.,hired after CSRS was discontinued.) I still maintain that

one of the main reasons CSRS was phased out was the realization that more people were needed to feed the socialIST INsecurity kitty,for as you know we CSRS people never had to,but FERS people MUST. Anyway,5 more working days and Im officially "outta there" and it will be time to get that 800K in BKK bank and visit the Thai Consulate....Happy New Year to all! the Harpman.