Visa Running Big Bikes

[HamSabai]

There is lots of threads regarding registrations, scams, unreliable bike dealership, etc etc...

A few peoples also mentionned the possibility of shipping a bike already registered in Europe and visa run the bike once in a while.

Would that be possible and legal?

If yes, how often would you have to do the visa runs?

Would you still have some taxes to pay?

Anybody has information's about that?

[Tod]

There is lots of threads regarding registrations, scams, unreliable bike dealership, etc etc...

A few peoples also mentionned the possibility of shipping a bike already registered in Europe and visa run the bike once in a while.

Would that be possible and legal?

If yes, how often would you have to do the visa runs?

Would you still have some taxes to pay?

Anybody has information's about that?

Don't want to be pessimistic but that sounds to good to be true...

[LivinLOS]

Its relatively easy..

You come into Thailand, the bike gets its initial temp import time (I hear up north they only give 30 days, I think Malay border gives 2 or even 3 months if you have a visa that allows long stay).. You then go to the local customs office and extend your time incountry (free) for up to 6 months, in 2 month chunks IIRC. Then you visa run the out of the country bike and return.

I have many mates who do this.. One has had his Cali harley on this system for years, 3 or 4 at least..

Its free, its almost easy and my local customs office positively encouraged it, when I went to asked about temp import he gave me his private mobile number so if phuket airport gave any problems they could call him direct to clarify it was tax free. He didnt even hint for a payment !! Personally I would ride in tho, the airport customs are a corrupt bunch of <deleted>.

Of course there are no absolutes, I figure a different customs office could refuse this rule or interpret it differently and make life a real hassle.

[BigBikeBKK]

How would you insure a bike in this situation?

[CroBiker]

In 2007 bunch of Saudi harley riders were refused entry through Thai port. They were on their way to Phuket Bike Week.

Instead, they entered through Port Kelang in Malaysia and drove to Phuket with no troubles. Point I'm trying to make: it is very easy to enter bike or car to thailand once it's imported via Malaysia from other country.

[goldfish]

Is there not a deposit which needs to be paid, refundable upon exit? I have ridden a bike through the Malaysia/Thai border many times without incident. Just ride through, park the bike, and then go back to handle the formalities. The bike has never been questioned

[LivinLOS]

How would you insure a bike in this situation?

Thai companies will insure it based on OS paperwork.. Same as you can get insurance on unplated bikes !! Blew me away when I found that out.

[neverdie]

And then some official decides to have the law changed & you've got to fly your bike back out of the country again.

I would imagine that its a fairly expesive exercise flying the bike in, even on the first occassion, unless of course you can do that by land, which elimates most people on this thread, considering this?

[LivinLOS]

Is there not a deposit which needs to be paid, refundable upon exit? I have ridden a bike through the Malaysia/Thai border many times without incident. Just ride through, park the bike, and then go back to handle the formalities. The bike has never been questioned

Thanks you.. I have said the same to be basically told what I posted was untrue.

The rules are that for ANY OS vehicle a bond needs to be left, but that in the case of motorcycles the rider can vouch for the bond, and he is ultimately responsible.. This does not carry over to 'vouching' for a car.

As to riding out to Malaysia, I have done this a few years ago, and someone I know did it down to the recent sepang races, and I have heard of multiple other times, where the rider was simply unquestioned and didnt show any paperwork, no books, no owners letter, no anything. I posted this on GT-Rider and on here and was shouted down saying this is totally impossible.. all I can say is its happened to me and many others, both in the past and recently.

Now would the same ease happen on a non Thai bike ?? I cant say that.. But what I will say is they didnt appear to have seen my plate (on the rear of the bike) when I went through anyway. I think the 'trick' if there is a trick to it.. Is to ride up, dismount, walk into the foot passenger groups with the on the bus visa runners.. Clear customs, return to bike and ride through the vehicle channel. Once they saw that I had passed the passport stage they just waved me through without any of the forms, books, etc that I am told are 100% needed. Technically you need to fill in a temp export form and then thats registered and cancelled when you return to Thailand. While it may be against the grain of forum experience all I can say is this is what has happened to me in the past, a close friend recently, and seems to be much more the case down there. I am fairly confident I could simply ride a OS bike in without doing the temp import papers if I wanted to chance it, however that would put you in the illegal limbo state and run the risk of confiscation or later penalty. As a 6 monthly visa run isnt the end of the world, especially when you consider the amounts saved on some machines, I would personally stay legit.

Lastly, this ability to leave the country on a Thai bike without registering its left the country throws up another less legit idea.. Which is bring the OS bike to Malaysia.. Ride in and do the legal temp import paperwork,, You then have the bike in Thailand for 6 months. Then use one of the legal services to properly register the bike, about 80 - 100k registers a bike properly I am told, even if there is no customs paperwork or 'invoice' as Motocy refers to it (legal here is a stretch but I am often assured that this can be done and the lack of 'invoice' is a issue that can be smoothed over).. Or use your 6 months to find a grey book (if your comfortable with that 'legality') and have the engine and frame numbers matched. Once this is done you now have the bike on temp import papers AND a legal Thai registration.. Ride out of Thailand on the legal temp import, have it cancelled, so you now no longer in the system, move the plates over in the huge no mans land, duty free areas.. Ride into Malaysia on the Thai plates and return.. Your now in Thailand on a thai registered bike..

When you consider the price of ducis, triumphs, and other desirable big bikes you can basically knock 100's of k off the total ownership costs, same bike, same registration.

[LivinLOS]

And then some official decides to have the law changed & you've got to fly your bike back out of the country again.

I would imagine that its a fairly expesive exercise flying the bike in, even on the first occassion, unless of course you can do that by land, which elimates most people on this thread, considering this?

1300 USD from LA and 800 - 1000 GBP from London.. Both to KL. Thats for drop ship, boxed, crated, insured and KL customs cleared. So 50k ish baht. Priced about 5 months ago.

Now think you can get a couple of 1000 mile K1200R BMW in the states from BMW dealers for what 8 - 10k USD.. The whole thing is here for 400 - 450k ish ?? Same bike costs what from BMW ?? 1.2 mil ??

At the low end.. You can get a well cared for older Monster for 2k GBP on the UK monster forums, so 150k baht or so incountry.. Same bike second hand value here 300 ?? Or move up to a 4k monster in the UK and your talking a 400k machine easy.

I could go on and on at the values, 2 - 3k gbp gets a one owner FSH couple 1000 mile pristine FZ6.. Sub 200k incountry v 400 or so here for the same bike.

Yes the law could change at any minute, as can any law.. But if you do this with the low end bikes, whats to lose ?? The bikes worth as much on the black market without plates as you have put into it. Worst case you had it confiscated after a year or two riding it, you would lose more than that in depreciation on a Thai one.

Edited December 22, 2008 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

Of course if anyone can find books of wrecked superbikes, you can also simply buy the bike that the book is for on ebay.. And go that route.

[BigBikeBKK]

How would you insure a bike in this situation?

Thai companies will insure it based on OS paperwork.. Same as you can get insurance on unplated bikes !! Blew me away when I found that out.

Well... I used to sell property, health and liability insurance in the US and it was a disgusting business. We were encouraged to sell policies to people who would never be able to successfully file a claim. For example health insurance to someone with pre-existing conditions, or vehicle insurance to someone without a license. Sure- we'd issue the policy, but we weren't supposed to tell our clients you that their future claims would be denied.

As a wise man once said, "the Large Print Giveth, and the Small Print Taketh Away."

I'll ask my Thai insurance company about coverage for unregistered vehicles when I return to Thailand. I'm pretty sure I know what they'll say.

Caveat emptor!

[BigBikeBKK]

Of course if anyone can find books of wrecked superbikes, you can also simply buy the bike that the book is for on ebay.. And go that route.

This will require changing frame and engine numbers. Now you're talking about forgeries and recycled green books... Both illegal and if caught by an officer that can't be paid off you can kiss your bike goodbye and risk criminal prosecution... Perhaps this still works in Phuket, but would you try this strategy in Bangkok??? I'm just sayin'...

[LivinLOS]

How would you insure a bike in this situation?

Thai companies will insure it based on OS paperwork.. Same as you can get insurance on unplated bikes !! Blew me away when I found that out.

Well... I used to sell property, health and liability insurance in the US and it was a disgusting business. We were encouraged to sell policies to people who would never be able to successfully file a claim. For example health insurance to someone with pre-existing conditions, or vehicle insurance to someone without a license. Sure- we'd issue the policy, but we weren't supposed to tell our clients you that their future claims would be denied.

As a wise man once said, "the Large Print Giveth, and the Small Print Taketh Away."

I'll ask my Thai insurance company about coverage for unregistered vehicles when I return to Thailand. I'm pretty sure I know what they'll say.

Caveat emptor!

Yeah there I do agree.. On unplated bikes it seemed a major stretch.. On OS bikes less so, I mean I can insure an OS car in another country (at a premium) all over the world. I ALWAYS drove an OS registered car for years, must have had 5 or more in the time, meant I could park on pavements, speed, etc etc.. All the tickets and photo convictions just went into the bin.

The the cost of my (specialist OS) insurance while young 20's on a BMW 850 CSI 5.6l 380 BHP car was just nuts.. So were the fuel stops.. Could make Tilburg to Berlin in record setting time tho, 240 for hours down the autobahns. dam_n I miss nice motors !!

[LivinLOS]

Of course if anyone can find books of wrecked superbikes, you can also simply buy the bike that the book is for on ebay.. And go that route.

This will require changing frame and engine numbers. Now you're talking about forgeries and recycled green books... Both illegal and if caught by an officer that can't be paid off you can kiss your bike goodbye and risk criminal prosecution... Perhaps this still works in Phuket, but would you try this strategy in Bangkok??? I'm just sayin'...

A HUGE proportion of the big bikes are registered on recycled books.. Yes its illegal.. But its how the Thais do it..

Once the numbers have been fully ground off, restamped, and correctly sprayed.. Do you really think Sgt Somchai is going to perform forensic radiology in the frame ??

It is what it is.. I am not saying its legal, however neither is riding in the right hand lane, riding on red plates after dark, or a host of other things done routinely. I reckon, away from farang eyes, With thai regged big bikes, this is as routine.. Even tin shack scooter kid fixers can get a frame restamped to match. The reason I havent had the bandit fixed yet is some Thai lads are sniffing at the book. The book is as valuable as the bike.

[BigBikeBKK]

A HUGE proportion of the big bikes are registered on recycled books.. Yes its illegal.. But its how the Thais do it..

I agree 110% LivinLOS. My only concern really is that you are advising foreigners to bring in foreign registered bikes and keep them in Thailand by exploiting some questionable loopholes without spelling out the risks. I am not Thai. I am a guest in the Kingdom. Just because a lot of Thai´s break a certain rule or law does not give me carte blanche to do the same. Just consider me the devil`s advocate on this topic.

Happy Trails!

[Richard-BKK]

@BigBikeBKK,

Additional to your concern I have a additional question, what is the reselling value of a foreign motorcycle in Thailand. I saw a guy wanting to sell a Canadian registered Triumph, and so far as I know the Canadian mission in Thailand not offers the service of changing vehicle ownership.... Or at least they never don it before....

So you ride a foreign bike in Thailand which holds no value, other then selling it to another country men. Who is willing to go with you to the nearest country to change ownership....

Also not let something like foreign license plates fool you, my g/f had for almost a year Japanese plates on here Yamaha FZ1. She only gets a ticket for not showing the a license plate... With most Police officers being okay if she showed the right paperwork and license papers.... The tin plate on the back has little value... Currently she has to travel daily much more so she changed to Thai plates...

The moral of this is that it can look that something is cool to ride with USA plates.... but in fact the bike or car is registered in Thailand. In BKK you can see whole groups of teenagers who drive cars with HK or Nippon plates.... still they just registered in Thailand only not show plates.

[dotcom]

Big respect to your girlfriend if she rides a Fazer 1000. Sweet bike.

Edited December 23, 2008 by dotcom

[LivinLOS]

@BigBikeBKK,

Additional to your concern I have a additional question, what is the reselling value of a foreign motorcycle in Thailand. I saw a guy wanting to sell a Canadian registered Triumph, and so far as I know the Canadian mission in Thailand not offers the service of changing vehicle ownership.... Or at least they never don it before....

So you ride a foreign bike in Thailand which holds no value, other then selling it to another country men. Who is willing to go with you to the nearest country to change ownership....

Also not let something like foreign license plates fool you, my g/f had for almost a year Japanese plates on here Yamaha FZ1. She only gets a ticket for not showing the a license plate... With most Police officers being okay if she showed the right paperwork and license papers.... The tin plate on the back has little value... Currently she has to travel daily much more so she changed to Thai plates...

The moral of this is that it can look that something is cool to ride with USA plates.... but in fact the bike or car is registered in Thailand. In BKK you can see whole groups of teenagers who drive cars with HK or Nippon plates.... still they just registered in Thailand only not show plates.

Again.. Very easy if UK..

A UK bike (where I would source one being as I have UK connections) you would then do a SORN paper in the UK which is a statutory off road notification. This means the bike is no longer on UK roads and you no longer need to get a MOT or pay road tax, I used to do this on my cars when I regged them in UK then drove to live in mainland europe.

Once a bike is sorned theres no problem at all to still do a V5 transfer, any name can go on, they dont need ID, the person doesnt need to be a UK resident, etc etc.. You just mail the paperwork away and a new V5 is posted to the new owner in thier name.. Of course you need a UK address to register to which would be easy for a UK citizen or you could simply use your own address as a favor to the new owner or any mail redirection service. I could also point out that you dont actually need the bike in your name anyway to ride in and out of the country, just a letter from the owner confirming you give permission.

The mechanics of one person riding out and a different person riding back in are a little tricky with a switcheroo in no mans land, but again not unstoppable..

To be honest.. I would just look at it for a bike that I really wanted, that I was going to own for a number of years.. Then write the whole cost of the bike off and any resale would be a benefit. I was offered a 900 monster with just a few 1000 miles for 1200 quid a few months ago, the reason it was so cheap was it was a uk bike in spain on uk plates and in storage.. So 60k baht for a 900 monster ?? Add the shipping for 120k baht I have it sat outside my house. So I cant sell it ?? Boo hoo !! So maybe in a few years it becomes a hassle ?? Scrap it !! Its 120k baht, how else can you get a legally plated and rideable duci for 120k ??

[prestburypark]

Bl**dy brilliant idea, I am back in UK in Feb, and am feeling seriously underpowered here on my baby CBR. I cant justify Red Baron prices for what is essentially a pure hobby, , but a decent secondhand machine at half Thai prices, without a view to selling, perfect solution. Might nick some nice winter prices over there too! Will post if I do this and how it all goes and flows.

PP

[LivinLOS]

First port of call would be your local customs office to make sure they will assist in 'extending' the bikes permission to stay.. If they dont agree to that essential stage, or are resistant to repeatedly performing this.. Your screwed, and the idea falls apart fast, doing super regular visa runs would be a real hassle. All I can say is Phukets customs are more than willing.

Do keep us informed.. I have just had a string of shitty luck where a bike I had agreed to buy (weeks ago !!) was first nabbed by the local corrupt customs, then the guy got it back with his lawyer last weekend, I was due to go pick it up yesterday, and the night before he took it for 'one more ride' and woke up in the hospital.. All I know is the bike is in the police compound in a mess !! Of course primary concern is the seller is OK, 50 odd stitches but should make a full recovery, but selfishly I am pissed as that was my upgrade plan I have been working over for a month. Now its back to my ebay watch account drooling over cheap triumph speed triples.

[prestburypark]

Yes, must admit the idea is good, the reality could be a pain, been looking on Gt Rider at bikes for sale,and doing some maths.

If I intend to keep the bike, well forever, then new is essential, maybe just swallow the Thai price. Fancied the adventure of KL to Thailand, will do some research, and as you suggest, actually talk to customs face to face.

[nikster]

Its relatively easy..

You come into Thailand, the bike gets its initial temp import time (I hear up north they only give 30 days, I think Malay border gives 2 or even 3 months if you have a visa that allows long stay).. You then go to the local customs office and extend your time incountry (free) for up to 6 months, in 2 month chunks IIRC. Then you visa run the out of the country bike and return.

I have many mates who do this.. One has had his Cali harley on this system for years, 3 or 4 at least..

Its free, its almost easy and my local customs office positively encouraged it, when I went to asked about temp import he gave me his private mobile number so if phuket airport gave any problems they could call him direct to clarify it was tax free. He didnt even hint for a payment !! Personally I would ride in tho, the airport customs are a corrupt bunch of <deleted>.

Of course there are no absolutes, I figure a different customs office could refuse this rule or interpret it differently and make life a real hassle.

Maybe this works if you live near the Malaysia border but I am sure it won't work on the Burma border (Mae Sai). They are on a mission to stamp out farang visa runs and I am pretty sure they'd dislike "bike" visa runs even more. So it's not an option for me, I'd also be concerned that the laws change and I can't keep the bike.

A fake green book is probably the route to go for this but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. I think I'll just drive my BMW in the states and the Kawa here until BMW come to their senses and sell their bikes for a normal price here which might never happen.

[LivinLOS]

How could you visa run it into Burma ?? Do Burma allow vehicles to cross at all ?? Tho of course just close to Mai Sai in the Chiang Kong border point to Laos, so your much closer to a border than many.

You would need to have a once every 6 month trip, but for many the point of having a bike is to do some touring. Ride over and into Cambo or down to the Malaysian races etc.

I would love to know what Chiang Mai's customs attitude to this process is.. Surely someone up there is doing it ?? Here its not that uncommon at all.

[prestburypark]

If you were to use the southern way in, with the good attitude of the customs down there, would it matter if you were resident in another part of Thailand?

I would not consider a trip to Malaysia once every 6 months more than a nice holiday on my ride, certainly not a hassle to do.

What I am not sure of is which customs would need to give you the necessary 3x2 months extensions, your local, or the entering port, any ideas?

Bike prices in UK very tempting, would certainly land something sweet here sub 200k .

PP

[LivinLOS]

Of course someone from any part of the country can enter and exit via the Malay border..

Your local customs office must perform the extension process(es) from your initial stamp up to 6 months. Thats why its vital they can and will do this.. As Thailand doesnt have equal standards please dont assume they will based on the fact phuket does.