C Section

[teddy_bare]

Hello,

Recently read an article in a girl mag, that 49% of Thai women are choosing to have C Sections instead of a natural birth. The reasons given were to do with: being less painful; quicker; perceived medical needs. The article did highlight that it's actually more painfully in the long run due to post op recovery time. In addition, medical staff were readily offering the procedure as routine.

My Thai wife is about to have my kid. We have talked about it already and we agree it's not something we would want to have unnecessarily.

My worry is that the medical advice we get is baised, flawed, misconceived, with the addition of the expectation of medical staff and friends etc that is is ok and normal. This could lead to a lot of unnecessary concern to my wife at a time where we would both need accurate advice, free from myths, fashion and money making bais.

I realise our child could be of larger porportions due to my DNA input. Not that I am a giant.

I am not looking for anyones opinion of the medical ethics or mystical believes of individuals. I would just like to know if anyone else has experienced anything like this recently. If so what were your observations and what did you do?

For those who want a reference: I was in Soi 70/1 Charen Sanitwong, in the Coffee shop, in the Natural Place when i read the article. The mag will probably still be there.

[Briggsy]

When the doctor says it's for the best, I'm sure it's very hard to contradict him/her.

[leftcross]

one thing you may want to consider if your wife is of small stature is that the baby will be unusually large for her body to push out. this could lead to a loss of elasticity (i believe the medical term is 'soggy welly top').

not something either of you want.....

[torrenova]

Pregnancy and indeed all medicine in Thailand is a business and don't ever forget that. As caesarian sections are more costly than natural births then they are also more profitable.

Thai people think doctors are some sort of gods and kiss the ground they walk on. I don't. Therefore, as doctors are profit driven and Thai people are subservient towards them, it is not surprising that caesarian births are on the rise.

Don't let any discussion with the doctor be in Thai if your partner can understand English. Get involved. If you do not, the doctors will steam roller over you as they do with their Thai patients.

There are good ones I know but even those have the $ in the eye at some times.

As for needing a caesarian birth, the size is not the real issue but rather dilation, how near to full term and rate of baby growth. Those fact and the mother's condition should dictate your choice, not what the doctor wants or what is fashionable. Ask your doctor what his / her % rates are for caesarian.

[teddy_bare]

Pregnancy and indeed all medicine in Thailand is a business and don't ever forget that. As caesarian sections are more costly than natural births then they are also more profitable.

Thai people think doctors are some sort of gods and kiss the ground they walk on. I don't. Therefore, as doctors are profit driven and Thai people are subservient towards them, it is not surprising that caesarian births are on the rise.

Don't let any discussion with the doctor be in Thai if your partner can understand English. Get involved. If you do not, the doctors will steam roller over you as they do with their Thai patients.

There are good ones I know but even those have the $ in the eye at some times.

As for needing a caesarian birth, the size is not the real issue but rather dilation, how near to full term and rate of baby growth. Those fact and the mother's condition should dictate your choice, not what the doctor wants or what is fashionable. Ask your doctor what his / her % rates are for caesarian.

I understand what your experience with Thai Doctors. I have been in Yanhee many times, and even got advised to have a full op for a throat cyst that turned out to be a allegy when checked at the ENT hospital an Pin Klao and cost 2000 baht and not the Yanhee 50,000 Baht!!!!!!

My wife speaks and understand English good enough for a full blown medical discussion so the plan was to do everything in English.

I am just curious to see if anyone has experience of the C Section op recently.

[Heng]

The doctors pitch it, and the parents to be often push for it as well particularly the segment of society that believes a baby should be born on X day at Z time, etc. For us, we decided on a C-section but pretty much to avoid the rush on "busy" (read: lucky/auspicious) birth days. We told our doctor that we'd like any day where she had one operation (ours) scheduled.

[Sabum]

When the doctor says it's for the best, I'm sure it's very hard to contradict him/her.

Uhm NO. Every time I go to see a Thai doctor they prescribe me a bunch of antibiotics and painkillers I dont need but cost 2k, its all bullsheet, do not trust a Thai doctors advice.

[joskydive]

Pregnancy and indeed all medicine in Thailand is a business and don't ever forget that. As caesarian sections are more costly than natural births then they are also more profitable.

Thai people think doctors are some sort of gods and kiss the ground they walk on. I don't. Therefore, as doctors are profit driven and Thai people are subservient towards them, it is not surprising that caesarian births are on the rise.

Don't let any discussion with the doctor be in Thai if your partner can understand English. Get involved. If you do not, the doctors will steam roller over you as they do with their Thai patients.

There are good ones I know but even those have the $ in the eye at some times.

As for needing a caesarian birth, the size is not the real issue but rather dilation, how near to full term and rate of baby growth. Those fact and the mother's condition should dictate your choice, not what the doctor wants or what is fashionable. Ask your doctor what his / her % rates are for caesarian.

I understand what your experience with Thai Doctors. I have been in Yanhee many times, and even got advised to have a full op for a throat cyst that turned out to be a allegy when checked at the ENT hospital an Pin Klao and cost 2000 baht and not the Yanhee 50,000 Baht!!!!!!

My wife speaks and understand English good enough for a full blown medical discussion so the plan was to do everything in English.

I am just curious to see if anyone has experience of the C Section op recently.

Most of my friends who have had children here, have had C Sections and it seems to be accepted as the 'norm' here, natural birth is not and also very inconvenient. This is with both Thai/Thai parents and Thai/Foreigner parents.

When I have asked them why they undergo quite a major operation, nearly all of them have replied that this is how we have babies here or the Doctor said so and none of them have even posed the question 'why' after the Doctor said so.

The main reason that I can see is obviously the $$ but also the convenience (to the Hospital, Doctors and Nurses) not the patient or yourself, because then they know exactly when to book you in, what medications are required, what day and time exactly the child will be born and how many days you will remain in the hospital after the birth if all is well. I think it's called Factory Setup!

Some people don't respond well to anaesthetics either, which I don't believe they tell you and your wife can have quite a nasty reaction to it if she is intolerent. There again though, more drugs would be required so, of course, the $$$ come into play again.

The main thing that you both need to remember is that you are having this child and so it's up to you how you have it and not up to the Doctor or the Hospital because it's their policy or whatever. I would only have a C section if it is the last resort and either the mother or the child is in distress.

By the way, when I had my daughter, she was natural birth and only 5lb 13 oz. I then had a 2 1/2 hour stitch up. My neighbour had 10lb baby naturally and NO flipping stitches atall. NOT impressed! However, that puts paid to the idea that you require a C section because the baby is big.

Hope all is well on the big day and you recieve the treatment that satisfies both of you and the baby. Good Luck.

[Likenitstill]

C sections should only be normally performed as an emergency procedure, however even in the west they are becoming more popular as a result of high queues and business. My Thai wife and I insisted that we wanted the process to be entirely natural without any medication or pain killers or anything to induce the birth. Birth and mom were fine with one small cut to assist the delivery at both hers and my request. Don't foget with a c section you will not be assisting or holding your wifes hand during the delivery! We have had hospitals insist on the c section highly recommending it and stating that natural birth was unsafe!!

Our birth was great except for one thing. In the middle of the delivery with the babies head showing the whole delivery team, doctor and nurses ran out for 10 minutes to deliver another baby that was considered an emergency delivery. We were left there with legs spread. We are no longer dealing with this particular hospital as I asked the MD a question regarding a vaccine later and he did not give me a sufficient answer. I asked why and he said it was because, and i quote "an idiot" After speaking with the hospital administration on this unprofessional behaviour they told asked us to find a new hospital if we were not happy. We did and were happy until the next vaccine was due, lol. After the nurse injected the infant without gloves she jabbed the needle down into the matress with all of its blood born pathogens (think of all the bacteria in that mattress from all the other patients?? I brought that up with the head of the pediatrics department and he said this was wrong and not normal practice. From then on they have warn gloves and I have not add this re occur. Also our doctor speaks perfect English and can handle a medical question from someone with a background in healthcare.

Do your homework

Oh I should also mention that her father tried to tell us what day to have the baby on (hence a c-section) because in his Thai Fen Shui methods or belief it was more important to deliver the baby on a lucky day. Well he quickly found out what I thought of that. Luckily my wife took my side on that one.... So there you go, this is another reason why there is such a high percentage of cesareans here.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Likenitstill

[offset]

My GF is due in Feb this is her 2nd birth 1st one was by C Section so the doctor said that it was best to have another C Section well after checking on the Internet and according to the latest it seems 50-50 weather an C Section is best when I asked the doctor she told me that due to the higher infection rates in England that is the case for the UK but not in Thailand because they have much lower infection rates so we compromised and if it was small baby we would go for a normal delivery the next thing I find out that the GF as been to see her Buddha and found out what is a lucky time and date so we are back to a C Section not totally the doctor decision but I do not really have a say in it because can you imagine that I insisted on normal delivery and something went wrong so I keep quite and I must admit knowing the date is not all bad

[garyh]

When the doctor says it's for the best, I'm sure it's very hard to contradict him/her.

Uhm NO. Every time I go to see a Thai doctor they prescribe me a bunch of antibiotics and painkillers I dont need but cost 2k, its all bullsheet, do not trust a Thai doctors advice.

If the doctor did not perscribe all those drugs every time he would be considered to not be doing his job very well by most Thai people. It has come to be expected.

[TJAN]

When the doctor says it's for the best, I'm sure it's very hard to contradict him/her.

Uhm NO. Every time I go to see a Thai doctor they prescribe me a bunch of antibiotics and painkillers I dont need but cost 2k, its all bullsheet, do not trust a Thai doctors advice.

ok when it is al BULSHEET then don't even go to a thai doctor,but by a ticket home and see your own doctor when you need one.

[G54]

Can I go slightly off topic and ask why there are so many different size C-section scars? I've seen them in size almost from hip bone to hip bone and bright red even after 2 years, while others are delicate and a couple of inches across.

Is this down to the doctor or the size of the baby?

Also, how many babies can you have by C-section? Is there a limit?

Does the scarring get worse after each C-section?

To the OP, I have seen quite a few C-section scars here, though they do not put me off, I know many of the ladies have been embarrassed by them, especially the larger ones, both vertical and horizontal. Maybe also a little something to consider?

[teddy_bare]

Can I go slightly off topic and ask why there are so many different size C-section scars? I've seen them in size almost from hip bone to hip bone and bright red even after 2 years, while others are delicate and a couple of inches across.

Is this down to the doctor or the size of the baby?

Also, how many babies can you have by C-section? Is there a limit?

Does the scarring get worse after each C-section?

To the OP, I have seen quite a few C-section scars here, though they do not put me off, I know many of the ladies have been embarrassed by them, especially the larger ones, both vertical and horizontal. Maybe also a little something to consider?

Totally agree. This is one of the reasons, but not the main. So far the examples are unfortunately as I expected. Just handy to know all the usual reasoning being used to justify unnecessary C Sections.

I guess another expensive option is to go back to UK to do it there. Not really ideal.

Before anyone comments, I know TIT and comsumers are not a major concern in the selling of incorrect or bad service.

Again, just interested in other peoples actual experiences' with this procedure

[bonobo]

I was in Siam Reap this weekend, and the talk drifted to Angelina Jolie. (After conversations with several people from USAID who have dealt with her on some of her charity trips, I have nothing but the utmost respect for her as a person.)

Someone then mentioned that she had a c-section so she could retain full enjoyment of sex after the birth of her twins. The Cambodians in the conversation all nodded sagely as if she really did say it.

I don't know if she said that or not, but the Cambodians sure think she did, and they all seem to agree with her thinking. So if Thais have heard the same thing, whether true or not, it would not suprise me to see some copycat c-sections. In other words, if it is good enough for Angelina, then it is good enough for them. And I would not put it past some doctors to kind of throw out that little tidbit when discussing the options.

[jumnien]

You must remember that Thailand is predominantly a Buddhist country. In the west, the predominantly Judeo-christian hospitals have ingrained the general public for generations that natural childbirth is the way God intended it to be, that Jesus would not be pleased with the dodging of suffering with a C-section. That is the difference primarily.

[geriatrickid]

C-Sections get a bum rap now because of their inappropriate use. As a result, we have seen the pendulum swing the other way to over compensate for the procedure's popularity. There have been several good comments about dilation, need etc., so I won't get into the science of it all, but one should keep in mind that giving birth represents the peak of danger in a child's life. This is where there are complications in either/or mother and child, so anything that can reduce those risks is something to consider, and a C-section does deliver on that IF there are other risk factors present.

Although a literature review indicates that C-sections have higher death rates and complications, the number is biased because many of the procedures were for emergency reasons, so the likelihood of death or complication was greater to start with. What one needs to do is to look at the actual elective C-section data, and unfortunately, there is none that I am aware of for Thailand, and the data available from the USA & UK, was not pure in respect to there being a true choice between vaginal delivery and C-section. Often a C-section is termed elective even though there is a heightened pre-existing risk factor that says one could go either way of delivery, both of which would produce a negative result. In such cases, the data is biased because the physician and patient will usually select the C-section to be prudent.

The point here is that C-sections are often blamed as the reason for death and complications, when often the case is that the patient(s) were already predisposed to complications.

As for the claim that the rate of infections would be lower in Thailand after the procedure, That's crap.

[torrenova]

My GF is due in Feb this is her 2nd birth 1st one was by C Section so the doctor said that it was best to have another C Section well after checking on the Internet and according to the latest it seems 50-50 weather an C Section is best when I asked the doctor she told me that due to the higher infection rates in England that is the case for the UK but not in Thailand because they have much lower infection rates so we compromised and if it was small baby we would go for a normal delivery the next thing I find out that the GF as been to see her Buddha and found out what is a lucky time and date so we are back to a C Section not totally the doctor decision but I do not really have a say in it because can you imagine that I insisted on normal delivery and something went wrong so I keep quite and I must admit knowing the date is not all bad

Sorry, but I can't and will never believe any of this mumbo jumbo. I couldn't give a toss about lucky this and auspicious that as I am more educated than a (please insert your own noun). I did go along with my ex wife's request to have a ceremony on such and such a day (she was Japanese) but you have to draw the line when it is medical.

Our doctor (18 months ago) was totally prepared to come in at any time of day or night and she informed us very early on that she would not schedule another delivery near ours as to make it a choice.

Can I go slightly off topic and ask why there are so many different size C-section scars? I've seen them in size almost from hip bone to hip bone and bright red even after 2 years, while others are delicate and a couple of inches across.

Is this down to the doctor or the size of the baby?

Also, how many babies can you have by C-section? Is there a limit?

Does the scarring get worse after each C-section?

To the OP, I have seen quite a few C-section scars here, though they do not put me off, I know many of the ladies have been embarrassed by them, especially the larger ones, both vertical and horizontal. Maybe also a little something to consider?

I was talking about this only the other day and it appears that the cut up the middle like you are sectioning a pig is the cheapo way performed by the government places. apparently a lot easier to get baby out and shove the remainder back in. Then you have abdominal cut with the lower bikini line being the most difficult, requiring the most experience and presumably therefore the highest cost. So I guess it comes down to a money / time thing.

[offset]

As for the claim that the rate of infections would be lower in Thailand after the procedure, That's crap.

And you know that for fact the British Government states that they are only just beginning to get infections under some control (if you believe that it is up to you) and I do not seem to hear about the same amount of infections in Thailand that I hear about in England

[offset]

Sorry, but I can't and will never believe any of this mumbo jumbo. I couldn't give a toss about lucky this and auspicious that as I am more educated than a (please insert your own noun). I did go along with my ex wife's request to have a ceremony on such and such a day (she was Japanese) but you have to draw the line when it is medical.

I do not believe in this mumbo jumbo either but even in the UK it is still a 50-50 call for the second baby after a c-section for the first also it is her body and I do think that she should have a little say in the matter even if I pay the bill.

[bonobo]

I also don't believe in all this "mumbo jumbo," but if I was married and my wife wanted a certain day for the birth, and the doctors confirmed that this would not cause any degree of a medical problem, then I would go along with it. A calm and happy mother-to-be seems to me to be better than one who is stressed out and unhappy.

[DaraRai]

Have you received medical advice on this issue from multiple doctors? If not, then I suggest you do so; doing so will give you a better idea of your choices, which would, in turn, allow you to decide more assuredly. I, however, would decide on the C-section. Actually, even in the states, it is becoming a more popular choice with women, and more are opting for it now than in the past.

[offset]

Have you received medical advice on this issue from multiple doctors? If not, then I suggest you do so; doing so will give you a better idea of your choices, which would, in turn, allow you to decide more assuredly. I, however, would decide on the C-section. Actually, even in the states, it is becoming a more popular choice with women, and more are opting for it now than in the past.

Good advice but in my case I do not think it will make any difference seeing another doctor her first C-section was an emergency I think she also likes and trust the doctor see has now the other thing is I think that she wants to have a C-section because she knows what to expect and sometimes it is better the devil you know that the devil you don't