Why Big Water Come?

[snoophound]

can anyone link me or post some thai script so I can show my lady why the tidal wave happened.

I am sure some other members significant others would like to know too.

[Edward B]

A tsunami (ซูนามิ or คลื่นยักษ์ [giant wave] ) is caused by an earthquake under the sea.

Earthquake = แผ่นดินไหว (paen din wai)

So,

ซูนามิคือคลื่นยักษ์ที่มีกำเนิดจากแผ่นดินไหวใต้มหาสมุทรและเคลื่อนที่เข้าสู่ชายฝั่ง

The grammar is probably sloppy but the message is clear.

[Edward B]

Actually, most people know HOW tsunamis happen, what most people want to know is WHY there were no warnings given.

[snoophound]

becuase life is cheap in asia

public servants greedy and incompetent?

Actually, most people know HOW tsunamis happen, what most people want to know is WHY there were no warnings given. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[meadish_sweetball]

A tsunami (ซูนามิ or คลื่นยักษ์  [giant wave] ) is caused by an earthquake under the sea.

Earthquake = แผ่นดินไหว  (paen din wai)

So,

ซูนามิคือคลื่นยักษ์ที่มีกำเนิดจากแผ่นดินไหวใต้มหาสมุทรและเคลื่อนที่เข้าสู่ชายฝั่ง

The grammar is probably sloppy but the message is clear.

Edward, as far as I can make out, the only change needed in your sentence is to erase the "mee" - "kamnert" is a verb "to arise, to be born, to come about" and there is no need for the "mee".

Perfect in all other respects.

[Richard W]

Actually, most people know HOW tsunamis happen, what most people want to know is WHY there were no warnings given. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One argument is that there would have been a massive language problem in evacuating the beaches. I wonder. How international is tsunami? I couldn't find 'tsunami' or ซูนามิ in my Thai dictionaries, nor in my pocket German dictionary. My first thought when I saw the argument was indeed that 'tsunami' was an international word, but my dictionaries implied it wasn't.

Nature did give an unreliable warning - some in Phuket felt the earthquake. Very few understood it.

Curving back to the topic of the Thai language, I would find it useful if someone could point me to Thai versions of the article and letter from the Nation quoted in English in Status of Tsunami Deaths. I'd like to prepare some copies for a Thai-based new year's party in Watford, England tonight. I feel justified by the Thai leaflets circulating in England a few years ago accusing Chuan Leekpai of giving Thailand away to foreigners. I don't know whether it would be acceptable to take some on to the wat in the morning. I suspect not.

[sabaijai]

Actually, most people know HOW tsunamis happen, what most people want to know is WHY there were no warnings given. 

One argument is that there would have been a massive language problem in evacuating the beaches. I wonder. How international is tsunami? I couldn't find 'tsunami' or «Ù¹ÒÁÔ in my Thai dictionaries, nor in my pocket German dictionary. My first thought when I saw the argument was indeed that 'tsunami' was an international word, but my dictionaries implied it wasn't.

Nature did give an unreliable warning - some in Phuket felt the earthquake. Very few understood it.

Curving back to the topic of the Thai language, I would find it useful if someone could point me to Thai versions of the article and letter from the Nation quoted in English in Status of Tsunami Deaths. I'd like to prepare some copies for a Thai-based new year's party in Watford, England tonight. I feel justified by the Thai leaflets circulating in England a few years ago accusing Chuan Leekpai of giving Thailand away to foreigners. I don't know whether it would be acceptable to take some on to the wat in the morning. I suspect not.

I don't know the source for these but it's just possible they would have appeared in the Thai version of The Nation, if you can find an online archive for that.

Off-topic aside: The retired police colonel's remarks were remarkably restrained. After the warning two years ago, the Phuket governor *banned* Smith Thamsaroj, the Meterological Dept scientist who issued the warning two years ago, from ever setting foot on Phuket again. The same scientist wanted to issue the warning this time, too but was barred from doing so (all this gleaned from watching recent Thai TV news, for what it's worth), as Phuket had used its influence to get him fired from the Dept.

I just read in the BKK Post today that he has been reinstated in a higher position before, and has been put in charge of creating a tidal wave early-warning system for Thailand.

I do think the Thais are well aware that their govt screwed up, so not sure how much effect your handouts would have. Then again, perhaps Thais in the UK aren't hearing this news.

[sabaijai]

Edward, as far as I can make out, the only change needed in your sentence is to erase the "mee" - "kamnert" is a verb "to arise, to be born, to come about" and there is no need for the "mee".

This apparent redundancy is pretty common in Thai actually. When you ask a monk, for example, how long he plans to remain in robes, a devout monk may answer 'mai mee kamnot' (ไม่มีกำหนด - 'no limit') even though logically speaking 'mai kamnot' (ไม่กำหนด) would seem to suffice.

Likewise if you ask a shop clerk if he has an item for sale, he might reply 'mai mee khaay' (ไม่มีขาย) when again, 'mai khaay' (ไม่ขาย) might seem more logical to an English speaker.

Or an easier way to explain it is to note that กำเนิด is both a verb and a noun, as listed in Rajabhat:

1.

ค้น : กำเนิด

คำ : กำเนิด

เสียง : กำ-เหฺนิด

คำตั้ง : กำเนิด

ชนิด : น.

ที่ใช้ :

ที่มา :

นิยาม : การเกิด เช่น บิดามารดาเป็นผู้ให้กำเนิดแก่บุตร, มูลเหตุดั้งเดิม เช่น ตัวหนังสือไทยมีกำเนิดมาอย่างไร.

ภาพ :

อ้างอิง :

ปรับปรุง : 98/4/2

2.

ค้น : กำเนิด

คำ : กำเนิด

เสียง : กำ-เหฺนิด

คำตั้ง : กำเนิด

ชนิด : ก.

ที่ใช้ :

ที่มา :

นิยาม : เกิด, มีขึ้น, เป็นขึ้น, เช่น โลกกำเนิดมาจากดวงอาทิตย์.

ภาพ :

อ้างอิง :

ปรับปรุง : 98/4/2

http://rirs3.royin.go.th/ridictionary/lookup.html

[meadish_sweetball]

Edward, as far as I can make out, the only change needed in your sentence is to erase the "mee" - "kamnert" is a verb "to arise, to be born, to come about" and there is no need for the "mee".

This apparent redundancy is pretty common in Thai actually. When you ask a monk, for example, how long he plans to remain in robes, a devout monk may answer 'mai mee kamnot' (ไม่มีกำหนด - 'no limit') even though logically speaking 'mai kamnot' (ไม่กำหนด) would seem to suffice.

Likewise if you ask a shop clerk if he has an item for sale, he might reply 'mai mee khaay' (ไม่มีขาย) when again, 'mai khaay' (ไม่ขาย) might seem more logical to an English speaker.

Or an easier way to explain it is to note that กำเนิด is both a verb and a noun, as listed in Rajabhat:

1.

ค้น : กำเนิด

คำ : กำเนิด

เสียง : กำ-เหฺนิด

คำตั้ง : กำเนิด

ชนิด : น.

ที่ใช้ :

ที่มา :

นิยาม : การเกิด เช่น บิดามารดาเป็นผู้ให้กำเนิดแก่บุตร, มูลเหตุดั้งเดิม เช่น ตัวหนังสือไทยมีกำเนิดมาอย่างไร.

ภาพ :

อ้างอิง :

ปรับปรุง : 98/4/2

2.

ค้น : กำเนิด

คำ : กำเนิด

เสียง : กำ-เหฺนิด

คำตั้ง : กำเนิด

ชนิด : ก.

ที่ใช้ :

ที่มา :

นิยาม : เกิด, มีขึ้น, เป็นขึ้น, เช่น โลกกำเนิดมาจากดวงอาทิตย์.

ภาพ :

อ้างอิง :

ปรับปรุง : 98/4/2

http://rirs3.royin.go.th/ridictionary/lookup.html

Your illustrative examples are spot on, so I think I stand corrected. They are both negations though - could it be that this type of construction is less common in positive statements?

[snowleopard]

Edward, as far as I can make out, the only change needed in your sentence is to erase the "mee" - "kamnert" is a verb "to arise, to be born, to come about" and there is no need for the "mee".

This apparent redundancy is pretty common in Thai actually. When you ask a monk, for example, how long he plans to remain in robes, a devout monk may answer 'mai mee kamnot' (ไม่มีกำหนด - 'no limit') even though logically speaking 'mai kamnot' (ไม่กำหนด) would seem to suffice.

Likewise if you ask a shop clerk if he has an item for sale, he might reply 'mai mee khaay' (ไม่มีขาย) when again, 'mai khaay' (ไม่ขาย) might seem more logical to an English speaker.

Or an easier way to explain it is to note that กำเนิด is both a verb and a noun, as listed in Rajabhat:

1.

ค้น : กำเนิด

คำ : กำเนิด

เสียง : กำ-เหฺนิด

คำตั้ง : กำเนิด

ชนิด : น.

ที่ใช้ :

ที่มา :

นิยาม : การเกิด เช่น บิดามารดาเป็นผู้ให้กำเนิดแก่บุตร, มูลเหตุดั้งเดิม เช่น ตัวหนังสือไทยมีกำเนิดมาอย่างไร.

ภาพ :

อ้างอิง :

ปรับปรุง : 98/4/2

2.

ค้น : กำเนิด

คำ : กำเนิด

เสียง : กำ-เหฺนิด

คำตั้ง : กำเนิด

ชนิด : ก.

ที่ใช้ :

ที่มา :

นิยาม : เกิด, มีขึ้น, เป็นขึ้น, เช่น โลกกำเนิดมาจากดวงอาทิตย์.

ภาพ :

อ้างอิง :

ปรับปรุง : 98/4/2

http://rirs3.royin.go.th/ridictionary/lookup.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your illustrative examples are spot on, so I think I stand corrected. They are both negations though - could it be that this type of construction is less common in positive statements?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Likewise if you ask a shop clerk if he has an item for sale, he might reply 'mai mee khaay' (ไม่มีขาย) when again, 'mai khaay' (ไม่ขาย) might seem more logical to an English speaker.

คนละความหมายกัน

1.ไม่มีขาย=ไม่มีของจึงขายไม่ได้

2.ไม่ขาย=มีของแต่ไม่ต้องการขาย

เสือดาว

[taxexile]

what is the thai for

"lets not split hairs"

[snowleopard]

what is the thai for

"lets not split hairs" 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could use one of these which I've posted on an earlier occasion...

1.โต้เถียงเรื่องไร้สาระ "dto-te-ang reu-ang rai saa-ra"=argue about nonsense matters

2.พยายามจับผิด "pa-yaa-yaam jup pid"=trying to find faults;nit-picking;niggling

3.หาข้อผิดพลาดเล็กๆ น้อยๆ "haa koh pid plaad lek lek noi noi"=petti-foggery

Out of Stock vs Don't Wanna Sell

คนละความหมายกัน "kon la kwaam mai gun"

1.ไม่มีขาย=ไม่มีของจึงขายไม่ได้ "mai mee kaai=mai mee korng jeung kaai mai dai"

2.ไม่ขาย=มีของแต่ไม่ต้องการขาย "mai kaai=mee korng dtae mai dtorng gaan kaai"

Snowleopard

[sabaijai]

They are both negations though - could it be that this type of construction is less common in positive statements?

That seems to be the case, generally speaking. And yes there's a difference in meaning between the constructions with or without 'mee', but Thais often use the negative form without regard to that perceived difference. Or so I've noticed ...

[taxexile]

1.โต้เถียงเรื่องไร้สาระ "dto-te-ang reu-ang rai saa-ra"=argue about nonsense matters

2.พยายามจับผิด "pa-yaa-yaam jup pid"=trying to find faults;nit-picking;niggling

3.หาข้อผิดพลาดเล็กๆ น้อยๆ "haa koh pid plaad lek lek noi noi"=petti-foggery

thanks snowleopard.

[bannork]

Actually, most people know HOW tsunamis happen, what most people want to know is WHY there were no warnings given. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One argument is that there would have been a massive language problem in evacuating the beaches. I wonder. How international is tsunami? I couldn't find 'tsunami' or ซูนามิ in my Thai dictionaries, nor in my pocket German dictionary. My first thought when I saw the argument was indeed that 'tsunami' was an international word, but my dictionaries implied it wasn't.

Nature did give an unreliable warning - some in Phuket felt the earthquake. Very few understood it.

Curving back to the topic of the Thai language, I would find it useful if someone could point me to Thai versions of the article and letter from the Nation quoted in English in Status of Tsunami Deaths. I'd like to prepare some copies for a Thai-based new year's party in Watford, England tonight. I feel justified by the Thai leaflets circulating in England a few years ago accusing Chuan Leekpai of giving Thailand away to foreigners. I don't know whether it would be acceptable to take some on to the wat in the morning. I suspect not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Richard,

The Thai newspapers write it สึนามิ, that got me thinking because I can't recall seeing สึ on its own before without being followed by a noun or consonant.

Also, the Japanese word 'tsunami', what's the 't' doing there? It's unpronounced in English and Thai, is it the same in Japanese?

bannork.

[meadish_sweetball]

Actually, most people know HOW tsunamis happen, what most people want to know is WHY there were no warnings given. 

One argument is that there would have been a massive language problem in evacuating the beaches. I wonder. How international is tsunami? I couldn't find 'tsunami' or ซูนามิ in my Thai dictionaries, nor in my pocket German dictionary. My first thought when I saw the argument was indeed that 'tsunami' was an international word, but my dictionaries implied it wasn't.

Nature did give an unreliable warning - some in Phuket felt the earthquake. Very few understood it.

Curving back to the topic of the Thai language, I would find it useful if someone could point me to Thai versions of the article and letter from the Nation quoted in English in Status of Tsunami Deaths. I'd like to prepare some copies for a Thai-based new year's party in Watford, England tonight. I feel justified by the Thai leaflets circulating in England a few years ago accusing Chuan Leekpai of giving Thailand away to foreigners. I don't know whether it would be acceptable to take some on to the wat in the morning. I suspect not.

Richard,

The Thai newspapers write it สึนามิ, that got me thinking because I can't recall seeing สึ on its own before without being followed by a noun or consonant.

Also, the Japanese word 'tsunami', what's the 't' doing there? It's unpronounced in English and Thai, is it the same in Japanese?

bannork.

The word as such seems to be at the coining stage. The newspapers have chosen to spell it สึนามิ and ซึนามิ but the ubiquitous Aet Carabao who has written a song about it, sings it with a "uu" sound, more like the English pronunciation.

The sound [อึ] (high back vowel with unrounded lips... ? Richard W...?) is closer to the Japanese sound in "tsunami" and "sushi" than the English rounded pronunciation of "u" in foreign words.

As for the initial "ts", it is pronounced in Swedish... like in Greek "tzatziki"(yoghurt, garlic and cucumber).

The initial consonant cluster "ts" is possible in Japanese. See www.f.waseda.jp/vicky/2004/ CO203/lecture/LinguisticLevels.doc for a short example containing the word "tsunami".

[Richard W]

One argument is that there would have been a massive language problem in evacuating the beaches.  I wonder.  How international is tsunami?  I couldn't find 'tsunami' or ซูนามิ in my Thai dictionaries, nor in my pocket German dictionary.  My first thought when I saw the argument was indeed that 'tsunami' was an international word, but my dictionaries implied it wasn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Richard,

The Thai newspapers write it สึนามิ, that got me thinking because I can't recall seeing สึ on its own before without being followed by a noun or consonant.

Also, the Japanese word 'tsunami', what's the 't' doing there? It's unpronounced in English and Thai, is it the same in Japanese?

bannork.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The sound [อึ] (high back vowel with unrounded lips... ? Richard W...?) is closer to the Japanese sound in "tsunami" and "sushi" than the English rounded pronunciation of "u" in foreign words.

Yes, though the Japanese vowel is lower. I've seen it transcribed as a mid-high vowel (Ram's horns - see U+0264 in Unicode IPA Extensions), which would make เสอะนามิ a more appropriate transliteration into Thai.

As for the initial "ts", it is pronounced in Swedish... like in Greek "tzatziki"(yoghurt, garlic and cucumber).

The initial consonant cluster "ts" is possible in Japanese. See www.f.waseda.jp/vicky/2004/ CO203/lecture/LinguisticLevels.doc for a short example containing the word "tsunami".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed, Japanese 'tu' automatically becomes 'tsu' - the rounding has been transferred from the vowel to the consonant, and as sometimes happens rounded [t] has become [ts].

As for seeing the สึ of สึนามิ on its own, it's theoretically possible, but the vowel is rare in monosyllables 'ending in a short vowel'. The example used at thai-language.com is รึ rue[HS], a colloquial shortening of หรือ rue[HL] 'or', whose high (as opposed to rising) tone is likewise dependent on its lack of stress.