Divorce & Property Ownership.

[timetogeteven]

Dear All

Please I hope you can help me. We are half way through buying a Condo in Jomtien in a Thai Company Name. My name is not on anything (paperwork) at all in Thailand. My hubby has admitted he's been playing away with a Thai bar girl!!!

I'm worried that, if once it has all been purchased and all paperwork is in order, he will leave, we end up getting divorced. He shacks up in what was our Condo, with the bit of fluff. She get's her claws in deeper than what they already are. She ends up with a nice Condo which should really be for our kids, thank you very much!

Can UK Law make him sell? If he dies would it automatically go to our kids, with it being in Thailand? I don't really understand much about Thai law, I just don't want the bit of fluff making a fast buck out of all the hard work that I have put into our marriage, it's not her's it's my kids. Does a UK will have any standing in Thailand?

Regards

Timetogeteven

[InterestedObserver]

I'm not a lawyer, which is what you need, but I will hazard a guess that any UK divorce settlement will be virtually imposable to enforce in Thailand given that your husband does not own the condo, a Thai company does. You would have to obtain a judgment against the Thai company that owns the condo. You say that your name does not appear on any of the paperwork. What proof do you have to show the court that this is marital property?

A UK will can be recognized in Thailand through the Probate Courts. Evicting the "bit of fluff" from the condo is another matter.

[patklang]

Why isnt he buying a condo in his or both your names.Why have you started another thread,you have one on the go already.

[InterestedObserver]

Why isnt he buying a condo in his or both your names.Why have you started another thread,you have one on the go already.

Simple, either 1) the condo is not available for foreign ownership or 2) he does not want to give the condo up in a divorce settlement. I vote for number 2.

[patklang]

You could be right my friend,wish i was devious like that lol.

[donne]

If you bought property after being married.

-proof that it is your money or both of you pay for property.

-it will split in 2 parts. propably the court will force to sell and separate money into 2. or let one of you get it but pay the rest of estimated value to another person.

-if he dies, and property is under his name. it will pass to son/daughter, not wife, unless you have no kids.

If you bought before being married.

-good luck with fighting in court.

p.s. I am not a lawyer.

[InterestedObserver]

If you bought property after being married.

-proof that it is your money or both of you pay for property.

-it will split in 2 parts. propably the court will force to sell and separate money into 2. or let one of you get it but pay the rest of estimated value to another person.

-if he dies, and property is under his name. it will pass to son/daughter, not wife, unless you have no kids.

If you bought before being married.

-good luck with fighting in court.

p.s. I am not a lawyer.

The OP states that the condo will be owned by a Thai company with no paper trail back to the wife. Even If the wife could prove that the condo is marital property, and the UK divorce court court splits ownership 50/50, a UK divorce court can't force the sale of property owned by a third party Thai company. If the husband dies, and the Thai girlfriend happens to be a major shareholder in the company that owns the condo, guess what...........she effectively owns it.

I'm afraid the OP's best hope would be to force the husband, through the UK divorce court, to compensate her for her share of the condo, but he (the husband) can't be forced to sell what he doesn't own in the first place. Just my humble opinion.

[timetogeteven]

Hi

Thanks to all of you, who have left your comments. It has certainly given me alot of options and thrown up things that I hadn't thought of.

Once again

Thanks

Time to get even

[haltes]

Actually in Thai law you can sue the girl for adultery as a civil action. This used to be possible in the UK until 1972 but it's still on the books here.

[hhgz]

"We are half way through buying a Condo in Jomtien ..."

Why are you continuing the process?

[ballbreaker]

If possible you should compile a paper trail of all the money that was transferred to Thailand for the purchase and obtain copies of paperwork relating to the Thai company. Even though your name might not be on anything should you end up getting a divorced I would think the court would see his actions as an attempt to shield assets from the divorce settlement.

[noo1]

Hello, can you help me to give me an information.

I was married with a foreign guy, after fews years we deceided to bought a house, we borowed the monney at the bank at my name and he is the guarantor. Now i'm divorced and when the distric ask us if we have property to split, we answerd that we don't have nothing to split and we signed the paper divorce in this term. After one year divorced, he came to ask me to split 50/50 of the house. Can you tel me if it's possible by the layer to get back 50%, even we signed the divorced with nothing to spilt. Thank you verry much for your help.

[InterestedObserver]

Hello, can you help me to give me an information.

I was married with a foreign guy, after fews years we deceided to bought a house, we borowed the monney at the bank at my name and he is the guarantor. Now i'm divorced and when the distric ask us if we have property to split, we answerd that we don't have nothing to split and we signed the paper divorce in this term. After one year divorced, he came to ask me to split 50/50 of the house. Can you tel me if it's possible by the layer to get back 50%, even we signed the divorced with nothing to spilt. Thank you verry much for your help.

What happened to the bank mortgage? Is the house/land paid for? Whose money actually paid the bank? Whose name is on the Chanote as land owner? Is this a Thai company arrangement as owner? Is the divorce final? Need a few details please.

[noo1]

1,every things is all my name, mortgage, house, land, chanote and only his name is for the guarantore at the bank.

We devorced one year ago and he paid for loan, now he stops and pay by my self. So could he get back 50% by the layew or not???

[theoldgit]

You should see a lawyer, you can bet your life he has.

I am not sure if by saying at the Amphur that you have no property to split that is the end of the matter, but if he can take it to court and prove that he has paid for some of the house and land then he might have a case.

I have to stress that I have no knowledge of civil law, you really need proper legal advice.

[InterestedObserver]

1,every things is all my name, mortgage, house, land, chanote and only his name is for the guarantore at the bank.

We devorced one year ago and he paid for loan, now he stops and pay by my self. So could he get back 50% by the layew or not???

I will assume by your answer that the loan is current, not in default and that the bank accepts the situation as it exists today. Any modification of the divorce terms recorded at the Amphur (District Office) will require a court order. Your ex husband will have to sue you in civil court to get his split of the marital property, usually 50%, the value of which is determined at the time the divorce was registered. Any money paid by you toward the mortgage since the divorce was registered is yours and not marital property. The court will determine how much your ex husband is entitled to, if anything, by the facts presented in court including the fact that your ex husband may have abandoned his claim to the house/land. You will need a lawyer to represent you in court.

If you have the funds, you could offer to buy out (pay him) his 50% equity in the house/land that existed at the time the divorce was registered. This would be the simplest solution, but maybe not practical if the divorce was not amicable.

Edited February 7, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[InterestedObserver]

You should see a lawyer, you can bet your life he has.

I am not sure if by saying at the Amphur that you have no property to split that is the end of the matter, but if he can take it to court and prove that he has paid for some of the house and land then he might have a case.

I have to stress that I have no knowledge of civil law, you really need proper legal advice.

It could certainly be argued by the ex wife that the ex husband, by not declaring any community property on the divorce documents registered at the Amphur, was making a gift of the house and land to the ex wife.

Edited February 8, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[theoldgit]

You should see a lawyer, you can bet your life he has.

I am not sure if by saying at the Amphur that you have no property to split that is the end of the matter, but if he can take it to court and prove that he has paid for some of the house and land then he might have a case.

I have to stress that I have no knowledge of civil law, you really need proper legal advice.

It could certainly be argued by the ex wife that the ex husband, by not declaring any community property on the divorce documents registered at the Amphur, was making a gift of the house and land to the ex wife.

Yes, you are probably right, this is a term often used. Then again the ex-husband might say who in their right mind would make a gift like this, bearing in mind he is probably walking away with nothing and having to start again, it does not seem unreasonable that he might want to try and retrieve something.

Of course I don't know the circumstances of this split.

[RubbaJohnny]

See alawyer

Consider a detective

Stop purchase condos are a poor investment here for hunky dory marriages

Beware her claws don't join the falang falls off 2inch balcony syndrome

[Pdavies99]

To: Timetogeteven

Really not hard...see your UK lawyer and put a stop on exporting marital funds out of UK without your agreement or if he wants the marriage to succeed he will have no issue putting the purchase in 50:50 with divorce clauses.

That will force or settle the issue.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Pdavies99

[Pdavies99]

To: Noo1

So basically you both lied when you were asked if you have property to split....so now you have to sort this out...you will be lucky to get 50% seeing as you contributed little to the purchase before divorce...but this is Thailand and 50% looks pretty fair in an out of court agreement without lengthy expensive legal costs in any country.

The interesting question is why did you both not tell the truth???

Edited March 6, 2009 by Pdavies99

[Arkady]

Hello, can you help me to give me an information.

I was married with a foreign guy, after fews years we deceided to bought a house, we borowed the monney at the bank at my name and he is the guarantor. Now i'm divorced and when the distric ask us if we have property to split, we answerd that we don't have nothing to split and we signed the paper divorce in this term. After one year divorced, he came to ask me to split 50/50 of the house. Can you tel me if it's possible by the layer to get back 50%, even we signed the divorced with nothing to spilt. Thank you verry much for your help.

I am assuming you are Thai, the house is in Thailand, you bought the land and house in your own name and you got divorced in Thailand. If so, you declared correctly that you had no property to divided. Legally land cannot form part of the conjugal property in Thailand where a foreigner is married to a Thai. You should have brought him along to the Land Dept office when you registered the land in your name and got him to make a declaration that the money used to purchase the land was all yours and that he has no claim on the land as conjugal property. If you did not, you are both guilty of a criminal offence under the 1999 amendments to the Land Code and it would not be a good idea for him to start a legal case in Thailand on that basis.

[Arkady]

Dear All

Please I hope you can help me. We are half way through buying a Condo in Jomtien in a Thai Company Name. My name is not on anything (paperwork) at all in Thailand. My hubby has admitted he's been playing away with a Thai bar girl!!!

I'm worried that, if once it has all been purchased and all paperwork is in order, he will leave, we end up getting divorced. He shacks up in what was our Condo, with the bit of fluff. She get's her claws in deeper than what they already are. She ends up with a nice Condo which should really be for our kids, thank you very much!

Can UK Law make him sell? If he dies would it automatically go to our kids, with it being in Thailand? I don't really understand much about Thai law, I just don't want the bit of fluff making a fast buck out of all the hard work that I have put into our marriage, it's not her's it's my kids. Does a UK will have any standing in Thailand?

Regards

Timetogeteven

A British court has no jurisdiction in Thailand. Thai courts are under no obligation to abide by rulings of foreign courts, although they are allowed to take tham into account. You can sue for divorce in a Thai court but they are not under an obligation to accept the case. They look at where you were married and where you are resident. In the case of two foreigners married outside Thailand, neither of whom is a permanent resident, they might not accept the case. It would be easier to get the case heard in Thailand if both parties want it heard here. It is possible that, having divorced overseas you could pursue the case in a Thai court in order to get your share of property in Thailand. A Thai lawyer should advise on that.

Now to the actual property in question. I presume that you are buying the condo through a Thai company because foreigners already owned 49% of the project and you couldn't register in a foreign name. You need to know who the shareholders of the company are but at least 51% of the shares will be owned by Thais. Your husband may own up to 49% in his own name. You will have no claim under Thai law over the shares held by shareholders other than your husband. I would imagine that, if he has wind of any legal from yourself in Thailand, he would transfer any shares in the company to some one else or even transfer the condo completely to his piece of fluff, who would thereupon probably kick him out and move her Thai husband in! Another question is whether the condo is purchased wholly for cash or whether the company borrowed money to buy. In the latter case, the lenders would certainly have a prior claim over the company's assets to yours.

I don't know enough English law to say how an English court deals with overseas assets. I believe they feel they have jurisdiction everywhere, even if they can't enforce their judgements outside the UK. In this case, your husband would in contempt of court in the UK, if he failed to abide by an order to pay you half of the value of assets overseas. Perhaps you could persuade the court that the total investment in the condo is part of the assets to be divided and, if he doesn't pay up, you could get a bigger slice of any assets in the UK in compensation, if there are any. Another possibility, if your husband used Thai nominees as shareholders, although I hesitate to mention it, is to threaten to have a complaint made to the Land Dept about your husband's possible breaches of the Land Code and Foreign Business Act in using a nominee structure to set up the company and buy a condo that was reserved for Thai ownership. Then there is also the possibility mentioned above of suing the piece of fluff for adultery, which I rather like. You would be entitled to damages, if you won, which your husband might end up paying.

A foreign will is recognised in Thailand, as long as it is drawn up in line with Thai legal requirements which basically require the will to be either properly signed and witnessed or written out in long hand by the testator (a holograph will). It can be used in a Thai court with a certified Thai translation. Direct family cannot be completely cut out of a will under Thai law. I can't remember exactly the proportions but a wife and children are entitled to a certain percentage of the Thai assets. The problem is of course that it is not clear who owns the shares in the company and whether there is any debt. Your husband's estate would only have claim on shares in the company that are in his name. Since this will be less than 50%, the estate would not be able to force the company to sell the condo against the wishes of the other shareholders. Even, if they did agree to sell, any debt in the company would have to be paid off before they paid the proceeds to the estate. If the company is closed down too, the whole process could take three or four years with cooperation from the other shareholders. If the other shareholders don't want to pay out anything, they can just run the company into the ground by paying themselves big salaries and expenses, or sell the condo to themselves for a cheap price and there is nothing the estate could do. They may well cheat your husband anyway, as this is all too common, especially in Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui where naive foreigners make easy pickings for dishonest lawyers, real estate agents and developers in cahoots with each other.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Arkady