Is There A Lot Of Racism Toward Children Of Mixed Ethnicities?

[Gary A]

Many Hi-So Thais are snobby as well as VERY rude. They treat upcountry Thais little better than animals especially if they are dark skinned. I really have no idea why but the upcountry dark skinned people seem to accept it without getting upset.

[Heng]

I think a luk krueng with a Thai and British/US/Australian passport and a degree from a British/US/Australian university is more employable to a foreign company than a full-blood Thai who graduated from Payap Uni majoring in how to make 100 hello kitty postures in photographs.

Absolutely, unfortunately these kids typically get the local pay package starting anywhere from between 9,000 and 40,000 Baht a month, genetic makeup notwithstanding.

[Heng]

Many Hi-So Thais are snobby as well as VERY rude. They treat upcountry Thais little better than animals especially if they are dark skinned. I really have no idea why but the upcountry dark skinned people seem to accept it without getting upset.

Some do get upset. An awful lot accept their station in life without a second thought. IMO the local religion carries a lot of the blame for that one.

[oevna]

Many Hi-So Thais are snobby as well as VERY rude. They treat upcountry Thais little better than animals especially if they are dark skinned. I really have no idea why but the upcountry dark skinned people seem to accept it without getting upset.

Some do get upset. An awful lot accept their station in life without a second thought. IMO the local religion carries a lot of the blame for that one.

I think it has more to do with not knowing how influential the person is who is insulting them. They may be afraid that if they protest or get visibly upset, it will escalate the situation and they will end up worse off. Better to just shrug it off and not start any trouble.

Unfortunately, some people get used to being able to abuse others and get away with it, and they seek out targets that are not likely to put up a fight.

[oevna]

Most of us are talking about mixed-Thais while the OP wants to know about a white Korean. In my Korea vs. Thailand thread we talked about how Koreans are worshipped in Thailand (even 10,000 people saw Wonder Girls at Siam Square!) and we know how they feel about the Caucasian male. Put it together your child will be LOVED!!!

anything else would be off topic

I disagree that anything else is off-topic. The OP's specific case is of a child that is half-Korean and half-Caucasian, however, the subject of this thread is "Is There A Lot Of Racism Toward Children Of Mixed Ethnicities?" This is a general question, and an interesting one, as there are many facets to it depending on the particular mix of ethnicities of the children, and the social status of the people judging them.

[WOWAsia]

What of negros though?...I havnt seen many black people in Thailand, what are Thai opinion of Negros?

haha

[oevna]

...

However the thing I find a bit disturbing is the term 'luuk krueng'. In the West when we want to know what people are doing with language, we often look at the construction of the descriptive labels used. At face value. calling somebody a half-child rather than a child would seem to indicate a less-highly valued social status.

...

While I understand your concern, I don't think this is the intent of the Thai term luuk khreung. I think it is just an idiomatic shorthand for "child that is half one ethnicity and half another," which would be a mouthful in any language.

Thai usage would ordinarily put the word khreung ("half") before the noun to make it half of a whole, not after. Examples are khreung chua-mong (half-hour), as opposed to chua-mong khreung (an hour and a half), or khreung kaew (half a glass).

[jayjayjayjay]

During my last visit to Bangkok (October 2008) my wife and I where having dinner with friends at an 'up market' restaurant, the diners on other tables clearly wealthy middle to upper middle class Thais.

Our hosts, a mixed Thai English couple became aggitaed when theye picked up on the conversation on an ajacent table which had turned to what I can only describe as 'extremely offensive remarks' about mixed race children and their parents at a Private School in Bangkok (I shall not repeat these comments here in TV).

Not only where the comments offensive, but the people making the comments where clearly raising their voices to ensure that their comments where being heard by everyone in the restaurant.

Perhaps the wine was loosening toungues, but the opinions expressed where offensive they were by any measure racist (I would say racist filth), and they are presumably opionions that the people expressing them held before they came to the restaurant. (Comments spoken through too much wine, not sentiments arrising from too much wine).

This experience confirms to me that Racism towards mixed race children in Thailand does exist and that it is not limited to people of lower education/income.

GH, thank you for pointing this out, however, we all know there are extremes in all situations, this being a particular case. My now teenage daughters, both Luk Krungs have never once encountered a single case of racist comments. I discussed this with them and they are old enough to recount all going on in there lives. We travel often, we dine in anything from roadside to 5 star. Not a single case can be remembered by all of us. It is certainly not in Thai schools, private or public, expecially not in the same maner in which the OP is speaking.

To the OP:

My daughters best friend is a sweat Korean girl. They live free of any type of the concerns you have. My advice in don't raise your family in Korea as this is well known in the western community in Asia the racist attitude of Koreans. This is not a slight at Koreans as racisim of one is not the attitude of another. It only takes a few rotten apples to turn the whole bunch rotten. Good luck. JJJJ

Edited January 31, 2009 by jayjayjayjay

[Heng]

Many Hi-So Thais are snobby as well as VERY rude. They treat upcountry Thais little better than animals especially if they are dark skinned. I really have no idea why but the upcountry dark skinned people seem to accept it without getting upset.

Some do get upset. An awful lot accept their station in life without a second thought. IMO the local religion carries a lot of the blame for that one.

I think it has more to do with not knowing how influential the person is who is insulting them. They may be afraid that if they protest or get visibly upset, it will escalate the situation and they will end up worse off. Better to just shrug it off and not start any trouble.

Unfortunately, some people get used to being able to abuse others and get away with it, and they seek out targets that are not likely to put up a fight.

That's certainly one response that many folks likely have. Although I think you're more likely extrapolating personal fears/uncertainties as a foreigner who isn't quite sure of where any particular individual might rank. In my experience, locals typically know exactly where they stand in the social hierarchy. And when it's a case of stranger vs. stranger, they figure it out within a few minutes or a few days.

Religion is the blanket here which so many people resort to as reason and even "logic" as to why they are living the way they are. I'm poor, so it's obviously my own fault... likely from another life. They tend not to consider that they can slowly build upon what little they have in THIS life.

[Heng]

His Majesty The King has two luk krueng grandchildren.

His Majesty also stripped -to allow her to save face, she was allowed to relinquish the title- the title of his eldest daughter for marrying a falang (who incidentally turned out to be a wife beater to add insult to injury). Needless to say, the ex is banned from visiting the Kingdom. Now that that's fortunately behind her, she again has her title back.

The title of this thread is 'Is There A Lot Of Racism Toward Children Of Mixed Ethnicities?' and even at the highest level of society there doesn't seem to be unless mum is dark, from the NE, used to work in a bar and dad is kiinok.

His Majesty may not have wanted his first child to marry a yank (understandable) but I have seen no evidence the children suffer from racists attitudes here.

Stating a fact, just as you did. You can interpret and rationalize its meaning as much as you wish. As for "mum is dark, from the NE, used to work in a bar and dad is kiinok..." that's like saying the "only" African Americans who face discrimination in the US are those who use the surnames of former slave owners, and those whose ancestors come from Sub-Saharan Africa.

What would pass as evidence for you since it can all be rationalized away? Say if the comment was: There's not a single (I think at one time there might have been 1-2) luk krung CEO or majority shareholder of any publicly listed company, and the numbers don't get much better when you look at the vast legion of small/medium sized enterprises either? Would you just say... "aw shucks, the SET isn't all it's cracked up to be? or 'luk krungs prefer more artistic career paths?' or 'all the smart ones move away!'"

Edited January 31, 2009 by Heng

[Loaded]

His Majesty The King has two luk krueng grandchildren.

His Majesty also stripped -to allow her to save face, she was allowed to relinquish the title- the title of his eldest daughter for marrying a falang (who incidentally turned out to be a wife beater to add insult to injury). Needless to say, the ex is banned from visiting the Kingdom. Now that that's fortunately behind her, she again has her title back.

The title of this thread is 'Is There A Lot Of Racism Toward Children Of Mixed Ethnicities?' and even at the highest level of society there doesn't seem to be unless mum is dark, from the NE, used to work in a bar and dad is kiinok.

His Majesty may not have wanted his first child to marry a yank (understandable) but I have seen no evidence the children suffer from racists attitudes here.

Stating a fact, just as you did. You can interpret and rationalize its meaning as much as you wish. As for "mum is dark, from the NE, used to work in a bar and dad is kiinok..." that's like saying the "only" African Americans who face discrimination in the US are those who use the surnames of former slave owners, and those whose ancestors come from Sub-Saharan Africa.

What would pass as evidence for you since it can all be rationalized away? Say if the comment was: There's not a single (I think at one time there might have been 1-2) luk krung CEO or majority shareholder of any publicly listed company, and the numbers don't get much better when you look at the vast legion of small/medium sized enterprises either? Would you just say... "aw shucks, the SET isn't all it's cracked up to be? or 'luk krungs prefer more artistic career paths?' or 'all the smart ones move away!'"

I think there are very few luk kruengs in Thailand of an age where they may be considered for a position such as CEO. Sure there were a few left over from Vietnam but Dad went home and mum bought the bar. Those kids went nowhere although a few became pop stars. The massive explosion of educated Thai woman marrying farang men over the last decade or so, would I guess, lead to a lot of well-educated luk kruengs with parents of a respectful rank within Thai society. I believe strongly that these kids, the luk krueng baby boomers, will be the future of Thailand. Afterall it only took Chinese-Thais a few generations to take over all business and much of the administration of this country and it won't be long before Luk Kruengs are in this position as well.

[oevna]

Many Hi-So Thais are snobby as well as VERY rude. They treat upcountry Thais little better than animals especially if they are dark skinned. I really have no idea why but the upcountry dark skinned people seem to accept it without getting upset.

Some do get upset. An awful lot accept their station in life without a second thought. IMO the local religion carries a lot of the blame for that one.

I think it has more to do with not knowing how influential the person is who is insulting them. They may be afraid that if they protest or get visibly upset, it will escalate the situation and they will end up worse off. Better to just shrug it off and not start any trouble.

Unfortunately, some people get used to being able to abuse others and get away with it, and they seek out targets that are not likely to put up a fight.

That's certainly one response that many folks likely have. Although I think you're more likely extrapolating personal fears/uncertainties as a foreigner who isn't quite sure of where any particular individual might rank. In my experience, locals typically know exactly where they stand in the social hierarchy. And when it's a case of stranger vs. stranger, they figure it out within a few minutes or a few days.

Religion is the blanket here which so many people resort to as reason and even "logic" as to why they are living the way they are. I'm poor, so it's obviously my own fault... likely from another life. They tend not to consider that they can slowly build upon what little they have in THIS life.

Apologies, I think I misunderstood your initial point, which was to state that Thais accept their lot in life due to karma from past lives, etc.

I wasn't saying that Thais can't determine their relative position in the social strata compared to others, but that they might not know exactly *how* influential someone is who is insulting them, even if it is clear that the person is "higher" in social status. It still might not be obvious if that person has the power to wreck their life, or just make them lose face in front of others. This is what I was commenting on.

[esprit]

I am not sure what the point of Guesthouse's comment is as I don't think anyone here said that there is NO racism here. If I can sum up what has been written here so far it is that farang-thai luk krungs may even enjoy an advantage here. As the parents of two luk-krungs (ages 11 and 8) I can say that I cannot recall even one untoward incident here since they were born. I can recall numerous times in which they were singled out for praise, provided with special treatment, etc. & etc. They are among a handful of luk-krungs at a large school, and enjoy lots of friends and love the school. I have never been in a country where it would be better to be of mixed farang-thai background. I say farang-thai as we all know some other color combos are not as well received here. YMMV of course.

P.S. I expect any time now to be told that the term luk-krung is offensive or demeaning. Ditto for farang. Yawn...

The point of GH's post was as always to typify his own pomposity and had little to do with the posters original question. GH's mention of dining in an "up-market restaurent" was purely an ego boast and totally irrelevant, not worthy of a mention. Whilst he purported to have overheard certain comments I suspect perhaps whilst enthusing that "wine was loosening their tongues" ( please note correct spelling) one also has to consider as to whether or not similar alchoholic consumption was stimulating GH's imagination ?

As both myself and another poster have had mixed race children attending full time education here in Thailand, between us dating back almost 25 years, I can confirm that our children were/are not exposed to any prejudice whatsoever.

[citizen33]

...

However the thing I find a bit disturbing is the term 'luuk krueng'. In the West when we want to know what people are doing with language, we often look at the construction of the descriptive labels used. At face value. calling somebody a half-child rather than a child would seem to indicate a less-highly valued social status.

...

While I understand your concern, I don't think this is the intent of the Thai term luuk khreung. I think it is just an idiomatic shorthand for "child that is half one ethnicity and half another," which would be a mouthful in any language.

Thai usage would ordinarily put the word khreung ("half") before the noun to make it half of a whole, not after. Examples are khreung chua-mong (half-hour), as opposed to chua-mong khreung (an hour and a half), or khreung kaew (half a glass).

Thanks for this, which makes a good point. It does seem clear that Thais are not speaking of 'half a child' in the way they might speak of 'half a glass', but rather a child that is half of something. The question for me though is: half of what? The meaning you suggest is neutral, but would it be as neutral if, say, the phrase referred to 'a child that is half-Thai'? For me this still might carry negative connotations. I'm not sure if Thais regularly use luuk khreung to apply to somebody like Mr Obama or mostly to children of mixed Thai/caucasian ethnicity. I guess if we really wanted to know we would need to find the answer in usage rather than grammar.

Edited January 31, 2009 by citizen33

[Heng]

His Majesty The King has two luk krueng grandchildren.

His Majesty also stripped -to allow her to save face, she was allowed to relinquish the title- the title of his eldest daughter for marrying a falang (who incidentally turned out to be a wife beater to add insult to injury). Needless to say, the ex is banned from visiting the Kingdom. Now that that's fortunately behind her, she again has her title back.

The title of this thread is 'Is There A Lot Of Racism Toward Children Of Mixed Ethnicities?' and even at the highest level of society there doesn't seem to be unless mum is dark, from the NE, used to work in a bar and dad is kiinok.

His Majesty may not have wanted his first child to marry a yank (understandable) but I have seen no evidence the children suffer from racists attitudes here.

Stating a fact, just as you did. You can interpret and rationalize its meaning as much as you wish. As for "mum is dark, from the NE, used to work in a bar and dad is kiinok..." that's like saying the "only" African Americans who face discrimination in the US are those who use the surnames of former slave owners, and those whose ancestors come from Sub-Saharan Africa.

What would pass as evidence for you since it can all be rationalized away? Say if the comment was: There's not a single (I think at one time there might have been 1-2) luk krung CEO or majority shareholder of any publicly listed company, and the numbers don't get much better when you look at the vast legion of small/medium sized enterprises either? Would you just say... "aw shucks, the SET isn't all it's cracked up to be? or 'luk krungs prefer more artistic career paths?' or 'all the smart ones move away!'"

I think there are very few luk kruengs in Thailand of an age where they may be considered for a position such as CEO. Sure there were a few left over from Vietnam but Dad went home and mum bought the bar. Those kids went nowhere although a few became pop stars. The massive explosion of educated Thai woman marrying farang men over the last decade or so, would I guess, lead to a lot of well-educated luk kruengs with parents of a respectful rank within Thai society. I believe strongly that these kids, the luk krueng baby boomers, will be the future of Thailand. Afterall it only took Chinese-Thais a few generations to take over all business and much of the administration of this country and it won't be long before Luk Kruengs are in this position as well.

How old do you need to be to be a CEO? Especially in the tech age? Luk krungs are hardly a decades only old phenomena. IMO they (of course there are hundreds of notable exceptions) have always "gone nowhere" and even now continue to do so. Until they start uniting (which will be difficult in and of itself since being "half-something" creates some issues when people try to find commonalities to unite around), the odds will continue to be stacked against them.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Heng

[Heng]

Many Hi-So Thais are snobby as well as VERY rude. They treat upcountry Thais little better than animals especially if they are dark skinned. I really have no idea why but the upcountry dark skinned people seem to accept it without getting upset.

Some do get upset. An awful lot accept their station in life without a second thought. IMO the local religion carries a lot of the blame for that one.

I think it has more to do with not knowing how influential the person is who is insulting them. They may be afraid that if they protest or get visibly upset, it will escalate the situation and they will end up worse off. Better to just shrug it off and not start any trouble.

Unfortunately, some people get used to being able to abuse others and get away with it, and they seek out targets that are not likely to put up a fight.

That's certainly one response that many folks likely have. Although I think you're more likely extrapolating personal fears/uncertainties as a foreigner who isn't quite sure of where any particular individual might rank. In my experience, locals typically know exactly where they stand in the social hierarchy. And when it's a case of stranger vs. stranger, they figure it out within a few minutes or a few days.

Religion is the blanket here which so many people resort to as reason and even "logic" as to why they are living the way they are. I'm poor, so it's obviously my own fault... likely from another life. They tend not to consider that they can slowly build upon what little they have in THIS life.

Apologies, I think I misunderstood your initial point, which was to state that Thais accept their lot in life due to karma from past lives, etc.

I wasn't saying that Thais can't determine their relative position in the social strata compared to others, but that they might not know exactly *how* influential someone is who is insulting them, even if it is clear that the person is "higher" in social status. It still might not be obvious if that person has the power to wreck their life, or just make them lose face in front of others. This is what I was commenting on.

It of course sometimes happens as you suggest. And yes, I wasn't merely referring responses to insults. So many people live their entire lives kow-towing to others here just because they believe that they are where they deserve to be and those who they hold highly are where they deserve to be (yes, karma wise).

[drummachine]

My Son is treated well, however other children always comment when seeing him as "farang" (he is half British, half Thai), innocent yet I believe is still in western society a unintentional racist comment.... I know others on here claim it to be non racist, but in my country if I call someone from another race like that, its look upon as racism and you can be arrested for it...

[jubby]

My Kids are always 'Falang Noi ' here ; and in the UK I've heard them called 'Chinese' more than once. I see it as an observation rather than an insult especially from other Kids. My Children are aware they are different, but if I was to ask them if anyone had been 'Racist' towards them they wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. As they are Girls I'm saving my concerns for the teenage years . Shotgun anyone ?

[dave9988]

Stating a fact, just as you did. You can interpret and rationalize its meaning as much as you wish. As for "mum is dark, from the NE, used to work in a bar and dad is kiinok..." that's like saying the "only" African Americans who face discrimination in the US are those who use the surnames of former slave owners, and those whose ancestors come from Sub-Saharan Africa.

What would pass as evidence for you since it can all be rationalized away? Say if the comment was: There's not a single (I think at one time there might have been 1-2) luk krung CEO or majority shareholder of any publicly listed company, and the numbers don't get much better when you look at the vast legion of small/medium sized enterprises either? Would you just say... "aw shucks, the SET isn't all it's cracked up to be? or 'luk krungs prefer more artistic career paths?' or 'all the smart ones move away!'"

I think there are very few luk kruengs in Thailand of an age where they may be considered for a position such as CEO. Sure there were a few left over from Vietnam but Dad went home and mum bought the bar. Those kids went nowhere although a few became pop stars. The massive explosion of educated Thai woman marrying farang men over the last decade or so, would I guess, lead to a lot of well-educated luk kruengs with parents of a respectful rank within Thai society. I believe strongly that these kids, the luk krueng baby boomers, will be the future of Thailand. Afterall it only took Chinese-Thais a few generations to take over all business and much of the administration of this country and it won't be long before Luk Kruengs are in this position as well.

Luk Krueng does not exist as a ethnicity because it requires luk krungs to continually marry other luk kruengs. its possible, but highly doubtful. the chinese thai selection pool is much higher, even if many of them are still being forced to marry their cousin. luk kurngs come from farang fathers. farang males have little to no pull in this country. and as you can guess, the social status of your father is a probably a good indication of where you are headed.

the lack of CEO luk krungs can be attributed to:

1. overall lack of connections in business

2. generally speaking, not coming from overly wealthy households. (sorry, but with a few exceptions its pretty hard for a farang to make it here as opposed to make it elsewhere and move here, inwhich case, how long does it take you to make it elsewhere? those luk krungs who grew up here likely did not come from upperclass households, but rather middle class.

3. general level of racism that all minorities face in other societies (luk krungs are a minority, see double pricing)

personally, i would prefer it if my child chooses not to limit himself to only Thailand. Its a big world out there, and even if its cheap here, I'd prefer he conquers the first world instead. Then he does not have to go on vacation to see Rome or somewhere and think "I wish I could move and work there, but can't".

[dave9988]

As they are Girls I'm saving my concerns for the teenage years . Shotgun anyone ?

I raised this concern in another thread, but was quickly shot down by the ThaiWannabes. The premise of my thread was essentially, Thailand is very much a male dominated society and that raising a daughter here might lead to her being treated as a trophy wife as a luk krung and not an equal partner to her husband.

The general consensus was that I hate Thailand and that your daughter will end up marrying someone good or bad depending on how you raise her.

I laugh at both responses, as if the lack of feminism in Thailand does not have an effect on every male and female being raised here. Its like supposing "If you raise your kids in South Bronx, they won't end up dealing drugs if you teach them not to"... Ah, yeah, your role as a parent matters, but the environment your child grows up in is also going to be a big factor.

If the vast majority of Thai males are adulterers (And I am not passing moral judgment, just stating a fact), than it is highly likely that our luk krung daughters will grow up to marry an adulterer themselvses. Right?

Edited January 31, 2009 by dave9988

[Geekfreaklover]

We've got a couple of kids at school here (my children are luk krungs) and for the most part there is no problem with regards to racism.I think in general they are looked up to, as if they have some kind of secret knowledge or something. which they don't.

It did make me smile the other day when my son came home and asked me what 'farang kee nok' is as that is what a school friend had said to him at school. Made me smile as there was a thread on Thai visa about that saying and most farangs were defending the saying, claiming it was not racist - just a cultural saying or whatever.

Well, saying it's not racist doesn't get away from the fact that it is racist. But racism works best for the racist when the abused reacts. Best thing is to not react. Having a half blood child being called 'Farang Kee nok' is like if you are a Pakistani parent with children at school in England and your kid gets called a 'smelly Paki' by the white kids. It's racist, pure and simple. When the Asian kids at my old school in London got called names they didn't react. They kept their head down and worked hard. Now most of the Asian kids I was at school with are doctors or dentists and the white bullies are probably plumbers planining a holiday to Pattaya. Go figure.

So many people on TV defend Thai racists, which, paradoxcally shows both cultural strength/tolerance and self weekness/lack of principles at the same time.

I haven't really seen too much racism in the schools here. If it happens from classmates at school I would tell my kids to ignore it. If the teachers discriminated against my half-caste kids I would move them into a new school.

But anyway, we are looking to move my boys to a school in the UK soon anyway. And if they get racial abuse there I will simply sue the school/government and make a few grand (pud-len - only joking)

GFL

Edited January 31, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[F1fanatic]

As they are Girls I'm saving my concerns for the teenage years . Shotgun anyone ?

I raised this concern in another thread, but was quickly shot down by the ThaiWannabes. The premise of my thread was essentially, Thailand is very much a male dominated society and that raising a daughter here might lead to her being treated as a trophy wife as a luk krung and not an equal partner to her husband.

The general consensus was that I hate Thailand and that your daughter will end up marrying someone good or bad depending on how you raise her.

I laugh at both responses, as if the lack of feminism in Thailand does not have an effect on every male and female being raised here. Its like supposing "If you raise your kids in South Bronx, they won't end up dealing drugs if you teach them not to"... Ah, yeah, your role as a parent matters, but the environment your child grows up in is also going to be a big factor.

If the vast majority of Thai males are adulterers (And I am not passing moral judgment, just stating a fact), than it is highly likely that our luk krung daughters will grow up to marry an adulterer themselvses. Right?

No, they'll marry old farangs.

[Geekfreaklover]

As they are Girls I'm saving my concerns for the teenage years . Shotgun anyone ?

I raised this concern in another thread, but was quickly shot down by the ThaiWannabes. The premise of my thread was essentially, Thailand is very much a male dominated society and that raising a daughter here might lead to her being treated as a trophy wife as a luk krung and not an equal partner to her husband.

The general consensus was that I hate Thailand and that your daughter will end up marrying someone good or bad depending on how you raise her.

I laugh at both responses, as if the lack of feminism in Thailand does not have an effect on every male and female being raised here. Its like supposing "If you raise your kids in South Bronx, they won't end up dealing drugs if you teach them not to"... Ah, yeah, your role as a parent matters, but the environment your child grows up in is also going to be a big factor.

If the vast majority of Thai males are adulterers (And I am not passing moral judgment, just stating a fact), than it is highly likely that our luk krung daughters will grow up to marry an adulterer themselvses. Right?

No, they'll marry old farangs.

F1 fan, no disrespect intended, but I must ask but why do you stay in Thailand if you have these unresolvable issues regarding farang / thai relationships? Every post you make seems to be venting some anger towards Thai women. It's not healthy.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[F1fanatic]

As they are Girls I'm saving my concerns for the teenage years . Shotgun anyone ?

I raised this concern in another thread, but was quickly shot down by the ThaiWannabes. The premise of my thread was essentially, Thailand is very much a male dominated society and that raising a daughter here might lead to her being treated as a trophy wife as a luk krung and not an equal partner to her husband.

The general consensus was that I hate Thailand and that your daughter will end up marrying someone good or bad depending on how you raise her.

I laugh at both responses, as if the lack of feminism in Thailand does not have an effect on every male and female being raised here. Its like supposing "If you raise your kids in South Bronx, they won't end up dealing drugs if you teach them not to"... Ah, yeah, your role as a parent matters, but the environment your child grows up in is also going to be a big factor.

If the vast majority of Thai males are adulterers (And I am not passing moral judgment, just stating a fact), than it is highly likely that our luk krung daughters will grow up to marry an adulterer themselvses. Right?

No, they'll marry old farangs.

F1 fan, no disrespect intended, but I must ask but why do you stay in Thailand if you have these unresolvable issues regarding farang / thai relationships? Every post you make seems to be venting some anger towards Thai women. It's not healthy.

Isn't it obvious?? I love living in Thailand - it's so beautiful, laid back and the attitude of smiling (even if you don't mean it) is far more pleasant than the morosity of life in the West! The repulsiveness of the vast majority of fararng/thai relationships is a small price to pay.

[macduff]

I married a thai from the north east and she's quite dark. We've had a child and he's totally white and takes after me. I would think when he starts school nobody would think he was half thai. I would think if my wife went to pick him up from school his friends would probably ask questions as to who she was. If there were any racial comments it would probably come from the parents of the other children and in turn would pass down to the children at some point and the way things are in this town the parents would think she's a pakistani. There are so many nationallitys in this town i think the question about racism especially in this town in the north of england would probably cancel itself out over the next 10 years and the whites would be the minority.(that's just my opinion). As for bringing him up in Thailand i would think it would be benefical to him and he would be looked at as a superstar and someone who would be better off because of his skin colour and the way Thai's in general which we've noticed through visits are attracted to him.

[Freddie_fly]

My daughter (now 10) has not I believe faced any problems viz-a-viz racism here at all, on the other hand having lived in South korea for a while, I believe your children would face a much harder time there.

regards

Freddie

[dave9988]

As for bringing him up in Thailand i would think it would be benefical to him and he would be looked at as a superstar and someone who would be better off because of his skin colour and the way Thai's in general which we've noticed through visits are attracted to him.

This is interesting, as what I have noticed, and I am not saying it is you in particular, but many here, like the idea of their child being looked at as attractive or a superstar, while at the same time lambasting the fact that there wife is looked down upon for being dark-skinned. Its kind of a have your cake and eat it too type deal.

[Heng]

Stating a fact, just as you did. You can interpret and rationalize its meaning as much as you wish. As for "mum is dark, from the NE, used to work in a bar and dad is kiinok..." that's like saying the "only" African Americans who face discrimination in the US are those who use the surnames of former slave owners, and those whose ancestors come from Sub-Saharan Africa.

What would pass as evidence for you since it can all be rationalized away? Say if the comment was: There's not a single (I think at one time there might have been 1-2) luk krung CEO or majority shareholder of any publicly listed company, and the numbers don't get much better when you look at the vast legion of small/medium sized enterprises either? Would you just say... "aw shucks, the SET isn't all it's cracked up to be? or 'luk krungs prefer more artistic career paths?' or 'all the smart ones move away!'"

I think there are very few luk kruengs in Thailand of an age where they may be considered for a position such as CEO. Sure there were a few left over from Vietnam but Dad went home and mum bought the bar. Those kids went nowhere although a few became pop stars. The massive explosion of educated Thai woman marrying farang men over the last decade or so, would I guess, lead to a lot of well-educated luk kruengs with parents of a respectful rank within Thai society. I believe strongly that these kids, the luk krueng baby boomers, will be the future of Thailand. Afterall it only took Chinese-Thais a few generations to take over all business and much of the administration of this country and it won't be long before Luk Kruengs are in this position as well.

Luk Krueng does not exist as a ethnicity because it requires luk krungs to continually marry other luk kruengs. its possible, but highly doubtful. the chinese thai selection pool is much higher, even if many of them are still being forced to marry their cousin. luk kurngs come from farang fathers. farang males have little to no pull in this country. and as you can guess, the social status of your father is a probably a good indication of where you are headed.

the lack of CEO luk krungs can be attributed to:

1. overall lack of connections in business

2. generally speaking, not coming from overly wealthy households. (sorry, but with a few exceptions its pretty hard for a farang to make it here as opposed to make it elsewhere and move here, inwhich case, how long does it take you to make it elsewhere? those luk krungs who grew up here likely did not come from upperclass households, but rather middle class.

3. general level of racism that all minorities face in other societies (luk krungs are a minority, see double pricing)

personally, i would prefer it if my child chooses not to limit himself to only Thailand. Its a big world out there, and even if its cheap here, I'd prefer he conquers the first world instead. Then he does not have to go on vacation to see Rome or somewhere and think "I wish I could move and work there, but can't".

Yeah, I've long said as well that's it difficult for luk krungs to get a foothold because after generation two, there are no longer many luk krungs left. And because of the whole dark eyes/dark skin dominant allele thing, it's difficult to tell at all after a few generations (ala a good portion of the Brazil population).

As to the lk's themselves, yours is certainly a more plausible way of looking at things. More realistic than IMO thinking that the playing field is skewed in their favor when the results clearly don't seem to point to that. It's good to look at the world in a positive light and all, but it doesn't take much observation to note that these kids -first gen luk krungs- (and many of them my friends) are running into road blocks.

Edited February 1, 2009 by Heng

[Lite Beer]

Two post refering to the Royal Family deleted as per Furum Rules.

Discussion of topics concerning the King or other current or deceased members of the Thai Royal Family is forbidden.

[Westerner]

I married a thai from the north east and she's quite dark. We've had a child and he's totally white and takes after me. I would think when he starts school nobody would think he was half thai. I would think if my wife went to pick him up from school his friends would probably ask questions as to who she was. If there were any racial comments it would probably come from the parents of the other children and in turn would pass down to the children at some point and the way things are in this town the parents would think she's a pakistani. There are so many nationallitys in this town i think the question about racism especially in this town in the north of england would probably cancel itself out over the next 10 years and the whites would be the minority.(that's just my opinion). As for bringing him up in Thailand i would think it would be benefical to him and he would be looked at as a superstar and someone who would be better off because of his skin colour and the way Thai's in general which we've noticed through visits are attracted to him.

I think you are very misguided!