Governor Petitioned To Ban The Second Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade

[StevieH]

So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?

i think you're missing the point. a pride march is not about people celebrating that they are gay, but that gay people won acceptance into society and equal rights. how can that not be a reason for a bit of a party?

Not completely. Maybe in Holland. Certainly the discrimination isn't over in the US and Thailand. Yes, there has been major progress in many countries.

i think it's linked to equal / civil rights and legal equality as US citizens isn't it? though you're right, as this thread demonstrates perfectly, ignorance, prejudice and discrimination are far from eliminated.

Edited February 5, 2009 by StevieH

[tigerbeer]

let them bring on whatever they want. as long as it brings money back into the local economy.

[ChiangMai2]

So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?

For the same reasons Americans still commemorate Martin Luther King Day, the French Bastille day and countless other examples around the world. Some of the posts on this thread show that discrimination and bigotry are not completely eliminated from society.

Well they are both national holidays - Not really quite the same thing....But heck, If we can get a national holiday to commemorate being gay then that's fantastic news! Perhaps you could have regular gay days at Tuskers, in fact really you should be sponsoring this event no?

[endure]

Also, Gay culture in Thailand, as seen by Thai people (not the western view of it), is very different from that seen and accepted in the west. Take for example the number of ladyboys here and events like lady boy shows and contests which are popular even in small farming communities. The culture here is just not the same. For example, should ladyboys have been banned from the Loy Kratong festival parades for the same reasons?

But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.

[Jingthing]

why do your gay and bi friends need your support to go on a march?

Support from friends and family is always a positive thing, wouldn't you agree? Need might be too strong a word, but most welcome, most certainly. I know in my case what hurt the most when I came out as a youth was the instant rejection from some friends and family members. One so called friend called me a degenerate to my face, and he was a Yale man (like George W. Bush).

But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.

I agree and that is my small issue with these events here. However, Thailand is part of the world and is influenced by the world. KFC is not part of traditional Thai culture but it has become a part of it (sadly). When I marched in gay parades in SF, these events were started by diverse Americans. If a faction of gay Chinese nationals had started those parades and pretended it was anything other than a celebration of Chinese gay cultural values, I would have found them a bit out of bounds. I also wish the Christian missionaries here would just do their charity and shut their traps about religion, that ain't gonna happen either.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

I imagine most "out" western gay people wouldn't share my view that we should not push a western paradigm of gay liberation on Thais. Another case in point, we are just people, with many varying points of view.

I share your view Jing.

[Kaez]

I really like what Khun Milton said : "I just happen to believe that public festivals where a particular section of society can interact with the wider community are a positive thing beneficial to the whole."

And I agree with other commentators who have noted that "regular life" here in Chiang Mai is already a "heterosexual parade" (even if most of the clowns are ignorant unsmiling louts who carry beer-bellies and Singha, not balloons).

No one is "forced" to attend a Gay Pride Parade to my knowledge : so I fail to see why several posters have to use analogies like "rammed down my throat" except as an expression of their own sexual insecurities.

As a permanently maladjusted hard-wired heterosexual I'd like to say, as did Chairman Mao : "let a thousand flowers bloom."

If we are all not God's children no matter what our gender "flavour," then what are we ?

~o:37;

Having a parade, you force your presence on people. How? Well, the shop owner that happens to be on the street that you choose has little option to get up and leave, as do those that get caught in traffic and have to wait to pass. Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. And I said I do not like it rammed in my face, like what a parade does. And why is it that when ever someone mentions an opinion that differs than that of the gay community, that they are accused of being insecure of their own sexuality?? This is a trend that I notice when ever I express my opinion about gays, they accuse me of being gay myself!

[Lobin]

Don't act so innocent anyway, who do you think you are fooling?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chiang-Mai-s...-T-t240645.html

you obviously could not see the tongue in my cheek for that one

you pro-paraders are obviously forgetting about freedom of speech and the freedom for people to have differing opinions, and just because someone else opinions differ from yours , you call them bigots. does that fit this definition?

bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

[Kaez]

why do your gay and bi friends need your support to go on a march?

Support from friends and family is always a positive thing, wouldn't you agree? Need might be too strong a word, but most welcome, most certainly. I know in my case what hurt the most when I came out as a youth was the instant rejection from some friends and family members. One so called friend called me a degenerate to my face, and he was a Yale man (like George W. Bush).

But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.

I agree and that is my small issue with these events here. However, Thailand is part of the world and is influenced by the world. KFC is not part of traditional Thai culture but it has become a part of it (sadly). When I marched in gay parades in SF, these events were started by diverse Americans. If a faction of gay Chinese nationals had started those parades and pretended it was anything other than a celebration of Chinese gay cultural values, I would have found them a bit out of bounds. I also wish the Christian missionaries here would just do their charity and shut their traps about religion, that ain't gonna happen either.

You and me both. Those people scare me, they seem to have this look on their face, like......they are hooked up some high voltage prongs and know that they are about to get zapped!! I dunno, its a weird look.

[StevieH]

Having a parade, you force your presence on people. How? Well, the shop owner that happens to be on the street that you choose has little option to get up and leave, as do those that get caught in traffic and have to wait to pass. Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. And I said I do not like it rammed in my face, like what a parade does. And why is it that when ever someone mentions an opinion that differs than that of the gay community, that they are accused of being insecure of their own sexuality?? This is a trend that I notice when ever I express my opinion about gays, they accuse me of being gay myself!

isn't it possible that a parade would bring in more people than ever and thereby actually increase the business of said shop owners?

[miltonbentley]

Perhaps you could have regular gay days at Tuskers, in fact really you should be sponsoring this event no?

I hope people will find that Tuskers welcomes all kinds of people equally and that the clientele represents a diversity of people regardless of their nationality, race, sexual preference or age. I happen to think diversity of clientele is a strength for any organisation whether it is a bar, company, club or country. I would have no problem hosting a gay event if the people from the community wanted it. Just as I have hosted events for the Scottish, Dutch and other communities over the past year. These events however were not exclusive to those particular groups but enjoyed by all. Exactly what I was getting at in my earlier post which struck a chord with Orang37.

[DanaDeLuxe]

@ChiangMai2:

Post # 15: "Their chosen sexuality is their business but I don't wish to have it rammed down my throat ( no pun intended ) In fact I find the whole idea of 'Gay Pride' parades offensive.."

Post # 35: "It is the parade I take offence with, not someone being homosexual. That is a personal sexual choice..."

And I do support Gay Pride marches because most of my glbt friends have had a very hard time in their families and personal surroundings while in the process of coming out (and later on), so this one day of the year they can celebrate being accepted not just being gay but because of their being gay.

And above that those pride parties are lots of fun, showing and celebrating the diversity within the scene as well as in the society. I for one welcome that.

I hope all of the above makes sense, my english skills still lack when trying to word complicated issues......

Dana

[StevieH]

have to say that i find it quite scary that there are still people who think that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, like being a punk or a teddy boy. read some books, guys.

[Kaez]

Having a parade, you force your presence on people. How? Well, the shop owner that happens to be on the street that you choose has little option to get up and leave, as do those that get caught in traffic and have to wait to pass. Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. And I said I do not like it rammed in my face, like what a parade does. And why is it that when ever someone mentions an opinion that differs than that of the gay community, that they are accused of being insecure of their own sexuality?? This is a trend that I notice when ever I express my opinion about gays, they accuse me of being gay myself!

isn't it possible that a parade would bring in more people than ever and thereby actually increase the business of said shop owners?

Wether sales would increase or not is not what is being debated.

[Jingthing]

Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with.

Kind of defeats the purpose of a gay PRIDE event to hide up in the mountains away from other people, as if being gay is something to be ashamed of and to hide. If you think that is how gay people should think, too bad for you. Edited February 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[BigSnake]

Sounds like all to do over nothing, Gays are here to stay, they are your friend, cousins, sons, daughter, aunts brothers, plus they are a very vital party of what makes this city go round. So my advise to Mr Governor and Company CHILL OUT you will live longer and happier.

[StevieH]

Having a parade, you force your presence on people. How? Well, the shop owner that happens to be on the street that you choose has little option to get up and leave, as do those that get caught in traffic and have to wait to pass. Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. And I said I do not like it rammed in my face, like what a parade does. And why is it that when ever someone mentions an opinion that differs than that of the gay community, that they are accused of being insecure of their own sexuality?? This is a trend that I notice when ever I express my opinion about gays, they accuse me of being gay myself!

isn't it possible that a parade would bring in more people than ever and thereby actually increase the business of said shop owners?

Wether sales would increase or not is not what is being debated.

so what was your point? that there shouldn't be a parade because you personally don't like having gayness 'rammed in your face'?

parades and festivals of all kinds bring more money into a local economy. i can't imagine too many shop owners having a problem with that.

[PeaceBlondie]

Now for a few silly opinions from that gay guy with all those children and 11 grandchildren..

One obvious way to tell a homophobe (someone scared of and hateful of gay folks) is that they express a serious fear that gay men are cramming gay sex down their throat!

Let's let Thais do Thai culture, straight or sideways or gay. The OP was written by a gay Thai, whom I probably met twelve days ago. If gay Thais want a gay parade, let the Thais do it. Besides, they do not need a work permit.

Posts that violate ThaiVisa will continue to be deleted by all moderators. Enjoy the thread, and the gay pride activities. If you see me there, I am the one with the low voice.

[mc2]

acceptance and tolerance of gays is improving slowly and steadily, actually Thailand has one of the highest levels of acceptance in the world.

problem is these gay pride marches are not Thai style. Thais don't like things forced on them , passerbys are thinking , ok thats great , but so what . stop blocking the road for gods sake . so basically the marchers end up shooting themselves in the foot.

change is slow but its happening quick enough , no need to disrupt the equilibrium

[ilovecm]

Sounds like all to do over nothing, Gays are here to stay, they are your friend, cousins, sons, daughter, aunts brothers, plus they are a very vital party of what makes this city go round. So my advise to Mr Governor and Company CHILL OUT you will live longer and happier.

Big Snake - guess you did not read the previous messages. it is not the Governor and Company trying to stop it - rather a couple of Gay people - one Thai and one German who complained. If they had not complained it would never have gone to the Governor.

[Lobin]

rather a couple of Gay people - one Thai and one German who complained.

a gay couple complained about it?

ooooh the bloody bigots!

[malcy]

Hey lets have a straight pride march people can march down the street NOT wearing backless leather chaps , they could shave off their moustaches and untie their tee shirts from around their navel . Seriously why do gay people feel the need to parade their sexuality in such a way ? its almost as if they want to provoke a reaction be it positve or negative . Why not just get on and live your lives no one is that interested in you or what you do , isnt that what you keep saying you want ?

[Jingthing]

Why not just get on and live your lives no one is that interested in you or what you do , isnt that what you keep saying you want ?

Here is hoping that reincarnation really happens and you get a chance to understand first hand. Obviously, you aren't capable of understanding this in your current life.

[malcy]

you are correct there

[Shazza]

And let the authorities who are objecting take a look at the massive revenue this type of event generates in other places eg Sydney and see how long it takes them to abandon this high moral when the Baht signs start flashing in their greedy little eyes.

Congratulations to the author on a well-written piece. "Gay" could easily be replaced by the word 'foreigner' in this passage, lest we forget.

Avatars are fun to have a look at and fun to read - it was the smilie Jesus that made me look... honest.... on boards you don't always really get to know people at all, just many of their thoughts... avatars can sometimes tell you just a little more about the person.... By the way... I think your new one is funny!

[Paagai]

Also, Gay culture in Thailand, as seen by Thai people (not the western view of it), is very different from that seen and accepted in the west. Take for example the number of ladyboys here and events like lady boy shows and contests which are popular even in small farming communities. The culture here is just not the same. For example, should ladyboys have been banned from the Loy Kratong festival parades for the same reasons?

But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.

Agreed, but in this case the western import has been taken over by Thais. And the gay community should be rightly sceptical, think of BKK pride........ on second thoughts lets not go there

Any thai gay event in Thailand would inevitably have loads of guys dressing up as women, even in the provinces where there are no Farangs, and this would be one of the more fun aspects of a Thai Gay pride parade. On the other hand, some of the more blatant displays of flesh which come from western influences are not at all appropriate in public in Thailand.

This thread kinda demonstrates the big concerns about this type of event some in the gay community have - it actually shows gay people are not at all integrated into mainstream society and gives the bigots an opportunity to bash us. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing and am only supporting it because of the HIV angle, which is important.

Had Mplus organised an HIV awareness parade on 1 December (World AIDs day) it may have been a better tactic and wouldn't have drawn the attention and venom that this "Gay Pride" event clearly is.

[jupiterandromeda]

Perhaps you could have regular gay days at Tuskers, in fact really you should be sponsoring this event no?

I hope people will find that Tuskers welcomes all kinds of people equally and that the clientele represents a diversity of people regardless of their nationality, race, sexual preference or age. I happen to think diversity of clientele is a strength for any organisation whether it is a bar, company, club or country. I would have no problem hosting a gay event if the people from the community wanted it. Just as I have hosted events for the Scottish, Dutch and other communities over the past year. These events however were not exclusive to those particular groups but enjoyed by all. Exactly what I was getting at in my earlier post which struck a chord with Orang37.

Does this mean Tuskers would welcome a Gay Pride Fundraiser or Event???

(If so message me)

[jupiterandromeda]

Also, Gay culture in Thailand, as seen by Thai people (not the western view of it), is very different from that seen and accepted in the west. Take for example the number of ladyboys here and events like lady boy shows and contests which are popular even in small farming communities. The culture here is just not the same. For example, should ladyboys have been banned from the Loy Kratong festival parades for the same reasons?

But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.

Agreed, but in this case the western import has been taken over by Thais. And the gay community should be rightly sceptical, think of BKK pride........ on second thoughts lets not go there

Any thai gay event in Thailand would inevitably have loads of guys dressing up as women, even in the provinces where there are no Farangs, and this would be one of the more fun aspects of a Thai Gay pride parade. On the other hand, some of the more blatant displays of flesh which come from western influences are not at all appropriate in public in Thailand.

This thread kinda demonstrates the big concerns about this type of event some in the gay community have - it actually shows gay people are not at all integrated into mainstream society and gives the bigots an opportunity to bash us. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing and am only supporting it because of the HIV angle, which is important.

Had Mplus organised an HIV awareness parade on 1 December (World AIDs day) it may have been a better tactic and wouldn't have drawn the attention and venom that this "Gay Pride" event clearly is.

I think drawing the venom is just what these reptiles need. Let them speak. let the hat and bigotry and unwillingnes to change to allow for difference, to keep all the cards for themselves. This will not stand. You fascists are dinosaurs. Evolve or...............

[jupiterandromeda]

Hey lets have a straight pride march people can march down the street NOT wearing backless leather chaps , they could shave off their moustaches and untie their tee shirts from around their navel . Seriously why do gay people feel the need to parade their sexuality in such a way ? its almost as if they want to provoke a reaction be it positve or negative . Why not just get on and live your lives no one is that interested in you or what you do , isnt that what you keep saying you want ?

You guys and gals march every day. Look 13 of you got arrested in T for a sex party. That;s you. It;s time for the hetrosexual community to grow up. There are plenty of online sites of extremes for hetros. You just have to realise its time for you to change. Or be quiet, swallow your great opinion of yourself and show some humily, some respect for difference.

If gays were black we;d call your views Racist. Is there any difference between the racist against blacks and the racism shows against gays. NO. And who is doing it? Always the straight white males who thing the world belongs to them.

This world belongs to all the people living on it. So swallow your boasting ego. And learn humility and kindness. Pity the women and childrennaround you.

[jupiterandromeda]

Also, Gay culture in Thailand, as seen by Thai people (not the western view of it), is very different from that seen and accepted in the west. Take for example the number of ladyboys here and events like lady boy shows and contests which are popular even in small farming communities. The culture here is just not the same. For example, should ladyboys have been banned from the Loy Kratong festival parades for the same reasons?

But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.

Agreed, but in this case the western import has been taken over by Thais. And the gay community should be rightly sceptical, think of BKK pride........ on second thoughts lets not go there

There was a Dec 1 event fundraiser at Chedi Hotel. Being LGBT does not mean AIDS, let me remind you. Let me further inform you that there are 2 Gay Prides this month in Australia as well as Major one in Rio. Japan is next month. So you all see, this is not going to go away. Deal with it!

Any thai gay event in Thailand would inevitably have loads of guys dressing up as women, even in the provinces where there are no Farangs, and this would be one of the more fun aspects of a Thai Gay pride parade. On the other hand, some of the more blatant displays of flesh which come from western influences are not at all appropriate in public in Thailand.

This thread kinda demonstrates the big concerns about this type of event some in the gay community have - it actually shows gay people are not at all integrated into mainstream society and gives the bigots an opportunity to bash us. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing and am only supporting it because of the HIV angle, which is important.

Had Mplus organised an HIV awareness parade on 1 December (World AIDs day) it may have been a better tactic and wouldn't have drawn the attention and venom that this "Gay Pride" event clearly is.

Gay Pride is not a western import. It is the free expression of a minority being expressed all over the world. Branded Gay Pride gives dignity back to those who feel margianized. And judging from this thread, they have reason to feel less than welcome on planet earth.

There was a Dec 1 event at Chedi Hotel. Furthermore this month there are 2 events in Australia and a major one in Rio. Japan happens next month. Actually Gay Pride is a world wide phenomena. Deal with it.