Goodbye To A One Nice Forum.

[H2oDunc]

Um, I'm afraid we need to keep the discussion of ad removal out of the public forum.

I find the above unusual to say the least on a so called PUBLIC FORUM! or is this censorship in the name of commercialism?

[PeaceBlondie]

How much would you prepay for a year of ThaiVisa with no ads at all? How many others would subscribe?

[mark lamai]

quote> How much would you prepay for a year of ThaiVisa with no ads at all? How many others would subscribe? < endquote

sorry peaceblondie but that is a silly argument,

its about being sensible and not abusing the members experience, after all its the members who make your site for free and you reap the rewards in revenue.

have a look at the main page...

it has the following media in it.

Images sizes in forum main page in KB (not complete).

195

19.3

49.7

2.19

10.3

0.69

1.33

2.73

2.66

0.81

0.16

0.06

5.31

5.78

12.5

4.19

2.92

3.75

2.87

1.58

77.9

3.74

1.61

2.19

2.38

4.69

1.76

7.25

6.31

4.91

2.53

5.87

4.16

5.31

3.54

5.36

2.81

22.68

1.45

6.99

1.98

4.67

3.97

2.29

8.51

1.82

4.36

3.61

2.06

3.93

4.3

3.76

2.16

1.66

9.81

2.8

1.86

4.19

4.3

5.65

2.1

3.75

2.12

27.5

= 605.16KB

now that is not user-friendly in a developing country where many internet connections are slow.

and added to the time to load images is the data transfer to/from google/doubleclick and all that c r a p........

[jdinasia]

How much would you prepay for a year of ThaiVisa with no ads at all? How many others would subscribe?

Hmmm what is this type of argument called? Straw Man?

People are not suggesting NO adverts at all .... just not the recent craziness! (One would think that the Nation deal would have taken care of many of these income issues just in increased total viewers!)

[girlx]

hmmm to be honest this site has gone way downhill... i have already backed off a bit because most of the posts are crap these days, a lot of the people who come on here are sad losers, and well, the other issues i have with TV can't be discussed ... i certainly would not pay for a site that is censored to the extent this one is. but i do still have the occasional question that can't be answered anywhere else so i won't completely abandon it until there is some viable competition. mobi i sent you a PM as well hoping to get info on how to turn off these garish and annoying ads.

[Maigo6]

site that is censored to the extent this one is.

I agree with that GirlX, but we can't discuss it cos it against the rules............. it's a Catch 22 situation.

A nightlife forum where discussion of nighlife is forbidden, an internet forum where any discussion of file sharing, proxy servers, and god forbid, pirated software in Thailand is forbidden, cos we all know that pirated software don't exist and none of us would ever dream of buying it.

I know that rules are made to protect the site, but the Nightlife section really pizzes me off, Farang entertainment end nighlife is now reduced to wordgames through rules, I am not allowd to say overmoderation cos it's against the rules.

[klikster]

The cost for to run a forum like this are very high. It's not the Hard- and Software alone which cost a lot of money! The cost of the Internet Connection and the used Bandwith is very high as well!

I would be willing to bet that the ads use significantly more bandwidth than the text (forum posts).

Did you guys know how much you've to pay for a 1 Mbps up/down leased line for an SME? That's in Thailand just a little as above THB 50,000 a month for. To run a dedicated server in an communication center is even more expensive an the higher the speed you need the higher the cost plus the cost for connection sharing and and and!

And TV has much more than just 1 Mbps!

I have a dedicated server with 500g drives and unmetered bandwidth (3,xxx g) that doesn't even get close to THB 50,000/mo.

How much bandwidth would this site need if the server load had about 10% of the ads they currently display to serve.

[samuibeachcomber]

hmmm to be honest this site has gone way downhill... i have already backed off a bit because most of the posts are crap these days, a lot of the people who come on here are sad losers, and well, the other issues i have with TV can't be discussed ... i certainly would not pay for a site that is censored to the extent this one is. but i do still have the occasional question that can't be answered anywhere else so i won't completely abandon it until there is some viable competition. mobi i sent you a PM as well hoping to get info on how to turn off these garish and annoying ads.

please define a "sad loser" and also give us examples of your qualifications to make such a statement?are you a sad loser?

[mc2]

hmmm to be honest this site has gone way downhill... i have already backed off a bit because most of the posts are crap these days, a lot of the people who come on here are sad losers, and well, the other issues i have with TV can't be discussed ... i certainly would not pay for a site that is censored to the extent this one is. but i do still have the occasional question that can't be answered anywhere else so i won't completely abandon it until there is some viable competition. mobi i sent you a PM as well hoping to get info on how to turn off these garish and annoying ads.

please define a "sad loser" and also give us examples of your qualifications to make such a statement?are you a sad loser?

relax, she probably wasnt refering to you

[Maigo6]

relax, she probably wasnt refering to you

Probably referring to me...

[sbk]

relax, she probably wasnt refering to you

Probably referring to me...

who would do that Maigo6? I'd have to say you rank up there in top ten most popular and beloved posters

(must be the avatar )

[Mobi]

site that is censored to the extent this one is.

I agree with that GirlX, but we can't discuss it cos it against the rules............. it's a Catch 22 situation.

A nightlife forum where discussion of nighlife is forbidden, an internet forum where any discussion of file sharing, proxy servers, and god forbid, pirated software in Thailand is forbidden, cos we all know that pirated software don't exist and none of us would ever dream of buying it.

I know that rules are made to protect the site, but the Nightlife section really pizzes me off, Farang entertainment end nighlife is now reduced to wordgames through rules, I am not allowd to say overmoderation cos it's against the rules.

Funny you should say that. There is a recent thread in the SEA forum on Angeles City PI. Well the only reason for the existence of AC, even more than Pattaya, is for tourists to hook up with prostitutes. I happened to offer a few mild comments, that wouldn't make a virgin blush, on the quality of the "product' available there, and my words were immediately edited out with the comment "we all know that prostitution exists in AC, as it does in Pattaya, but forum rules forbid you discussing it.

It's bit like the Victorians putting covers on furniture with Queen Anne legs, or withdrawing Thomas Hardy's books from the libraries because he dared to write about unmarried mothers.

Gladstone would be proud of ThaiVisa (And he had a secret life of 'saving' ladies of disrepute)

Edited February 10, 2009 by Mobi

[girlx]

please define a "sad loser" and also give us examples of your qualifications to make such a statement?are you a sad loser?

ha i can be a sad loser at times too, just like the rest of us... but there seem to be a lot of people in thailand who are perpetually miserable here, living on english teacher's pathetic salaries, getting burnt by bargirls, not bothering to learn about the culture and yet constantly denigrating thai people- these are the typical expats i meet on or off this board really, with some exceptions... or there are those big egos criticizing everyone else, who claim to have millions of dollars stashed away and be retired early, with their 5 cars, multiple condos, powerful connections, and the white skinned chinese hi-so wife of course. i for one am more impressed by down-to-earth, honest people with human flaws and thoughtful contributions. would be nice to see more of those on here again.

p.s. managed to block the ads much better

Edited February 10, 2009 by girlx

[Maestro]

I have suggested a few topics to be pinned, will never happen. Anything that is detrimental to sales of houses, visas will not be pinned.

I have given a lot of thought to this regarding the Visa forum, in which I am most active and where I actually plan to suggest a reduction of the number of pinned topics.

You are right, there are a lot of topics that would deserve being pinned. In the visa forum I can think of at least 200 such topics. The reverse side of the coin is that too many pinned topics make it necessary for the readers to scroll down a long way until they arrive at the top of the list of new topics. In some forums this may cause little inconvenience but in the visa forum, for example, it was found to be annoying and a little over a year ago administration reduced the number of pinned items in this forum. The number has increased again and I am racking my brain to think of a way to reduce it again while at the same time making it very convenient to access easily an even larger number of those important topics that ought to be pinned. I have an idea how this might be done but have not yet got around to explore its feasibility with administration: instead of the section “Pinned topics” at the top of the forum's main page, have a link to a subforum called “Pinned Topics” and then put those important topics in that subforum.

You mentioned that more pinned topics would reduce the number of repetitive new topics always asking the same question over and over again. I had the same thought but somehow I have certain doubts about it and I wonder how many posters even look at the titles of pinned topics before posting their own new topic, to see if they might find the answer in a pinned topic. How much are these pinned topics really being used? I have little idea about other forums, but have my doubts about the visa forum. Just the same, I am looking for a way to increase the number of pinned topics without the need to scroll down a long way to get to the first new topic.

--

Maestro

[jdinasia]

please define a "sad loser" and also give us examples of your qualifications to make such a statement?are you a sad loser?

ha i can be a sad loser at times too, just like the rest of us... but there seem to be a lot of people in thailand who are perpetually miserable here, living on english teacher's pathetic salaries, getting burnt by bargirls, not bothering to learn about the culture and yet constantly denigrating thai people- these are the typical expats i meet on or off this board really, with some exceptions... or there are those big egos criticizing everyone else, who claim to have millions of dollars stashed away and be retired early, with their 5 cars, multiple condos, powerful connections, and the white skinned chinese hi-so wife of course. i for one am more impressed by down-to-earth, honest people with human flaws and thoughtful contributions. would be nice to see more of those on here again.

Don't forget the folks that abandon animals ... oh yeah and criticize everyone you listed above

Edited February 11, 2009 by sbk
Undid modification of quoted text, as this is bad netiquette - Maestro

[chiangmaibruce]

Can I make a special plea to fellow TV members not to sidetrack this thread into a member versus member slang-fest... the reason being that the net effect will only be to:

* let the powers-that-be off the hook, big-time

* provide what I think will be a much-appreciated opportunity to close this thread on the basis that "it has run its course and degenerated into a <insert exaggerated term of your choice here>"

This is an important discussion ... keep that constructive input flowing ... and can I please have my post back please

[jdinasia]

People come and go in TV all the time. The new inundation of ads is disturbing but they'll probably back off it entirely soon. If not they certainly won't stop anyone with any internet savvy from participating here (sadly it will just discourage the people that don't know the internet as well and thus really need TV more!)

[Mobi]

A point on the pinning of information.

I would venture to suggest that the Visa forum is a bit of a one off. There are so many different issues: there are many different types of visa - from residence to VOA and everything in between, and each typ has its own issues and requirements. The huge amount of information needed to be pinned will inevitably cause problems, and even if you did pin it all, it would probably be self defeating as the sheer volume and detail may put people off reading it.

If someone just wants to know what kind of bank account he should put his money in for a retirement visa, he may not feel like trawling through all the pinned information to find what he needs - and it might not even be there. So he will just post the question.

However, KJ is active and knowledgeable in the real estate forum, and I would imagine that although this is also a complex subject, the kind of issues that arise (Usufructs, 30 year leases, 30+ 30 leases, companies owning land, The FBA rules etc etc) are far less in overall number than the visa issues, and could easily be managed within the "Pinned" section, and would certainly avoid a great number of repeated threads., and lessen the "help" fatigue by experts such as KJ.

[silverhawk_usa]

I've got to say that I just signed on, after being gone for about week, and I was taken aback by all the "ads by Google" everywhere. I was searching for a place to post my opinion when I found this thread. I'll skip all the other rhetoric and just say; I don't like it at all !

[chiangmaibruce]

And again, on the topic of pinned items and thread duplication. One of the issues seems to be people just sign up and start posting their "I'm sorry if this has been asked before but ..." gems. I'll wager few if any read the forum rules or the help area information. Pinned topics are one good approach, but ...

Maybe there needs to be some induction process. Example. I just visited the paypal.com site to research the issue of cross-border money transfers. Went to the FAQ area, clicked on a topic (adding a bank account) and rather than just get a few lines of blurb, it was like a powerpoint presentation with sound. Not too long and involved, and didnt take too long to download (and my net speed sucks!). So perhaps something like this when people sign up... how to search threads, where are the rules, etc.

[peacerichard]

All suggestions how to improve the forum are welcome!

But you also should keep in mind that except just a few, the post's are made by the members of this forum which indicates that this forum is mainly build by it's members itself.

Those who are telling that they want to leave the forum because of it's style pp., should also realize that even them's own topics and post a part of that what this forum is today.

A logic consequence would be to improve the forum instead of leave it.

That's just my two Satang's!

Cheers./

Don't completely understand this post. But if it means Thaivisa listen to suggestions then that is not my experience or I beleive that of many members

[neverdie]

^ Great Idea CMB....or when you go to create a new topic there could be a little drop down box or boxes that people have to tick stating that they have searched for the topic & things like that.....that way it will make people think twice before creating a new topic

[peacerichard]

Our contracts with our advertisers prohibit comments with regard to advertisements which appear on our forums.

Fair enough to look after your own interests. But it is strange that that a site that supposedly encourages expats to share info and find their way around the good, the bad & the ugly of living in Thailand has a policy that basically encourages anyone with a dodgy business to pay to promote themselves knowing that they will be immune from criticism and will have their reputation defended staunchly by Mods. Whereas other, possibly better, companies who don't advertise are open for criticism.

Agreed. In the Uk there are advertising codes and the dodgy ones are (hopefully) screened out. That was usually successful when I worked in the media. But TIT. Money overrides

[peacerichard]

Our contracts with our advertisers prohibit comments with regard to advertisements which appear on our forums.

Fair enough to look after your own interests. But it is strange that that a site that supposedly encourages expats to share info and find their way around the good, the bad & the ugly of living in Thailand has a policy that basically encourages anyone with a dodgy business to pay to promote themselves knowing that they will be immune from criticism and will have their reputation defended staunchly by Mods. Whereas other, possibly better, companies who don't advertise are open for criticism.

It's called the Golden Rule mate, he who has the gold - makes the rules, take it or leave it.

And the gold comes from where? the members.

Just don't respond to the advertisers

[pumpuiman]

The influx of ads is disturbing, and why flash ads? With internet speeds in Thailand being what they are, flash ads serve to infuriatingly slow the load time for a page. I purposely will never click a flash ad, as they reek like a carnival barker selling snake oil.

Partnering with a politically bias newspaper and being more and more frequently forced to hold my tongue has unfortunately got me looking for other places to go.

More advertisements hastens my search.

Edited February 10, 2009 by pumpuiman

[peacerichard]

personally dont know what all the fuss is about.

it's about being fairer.

[Mario2008]

As said before, Thai Visa is currently experimenting with the ads and your input is welcome. You can see that the experiment with ads inside postings has been discontinued.

[jcon]

site that is censored to the extent this one is.

I agree with that GirlX, but we can't discuss it cos it against the rules............. it's a Catch 22 situation.

A nightlife forum where discussion of nighlife is forbidden, an internet forum where any discussion of file sharing, proxy servers, and god forbid, pirated software in Thailand is forbidden, cos we all know that pirated software don't exist and none of us would ever dream of buying it.

I know that rules are made to protect the site, but the Nightlife section really pizzes me off, Farang entertainment end nighlife is now reduced to wordgames through rules, I am not allowd to say overmoderation cos it's against the rules.

Agree. It all seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it? Sometimes I get really frustrated over these issues above, and they seem to be getting worse. I wonder how many posts have been deleted from this thread alone, for example? I'd say more than the number of posts currently in the thread, at least. And without explanation.... Now I can picture a moderator saying the infamous saying, "If you don't like it, leave," but that's not the point here... We did like it, and that's why we stayed... but everybody has a threshold, and if TV keeps pushing it, then certainly things will not go the way they were expected to go - my own hypothesis.

There are SO MANY guests or non-active members that read this forum regularly, but don't post... and if TV loses the posting members by having nutty flash banners everywhere, then these guests will have nothing to read. And if they have nothing to read, they will not click on any ads. And if they don't click any ads, etc. etc... downward spriral, and no amount of "10,000 Baht tag competitions" is going to help in tha scenario (that was a good ploy, I admit, to get internet traffic by having members tag for their own greed - is anybody going to ever "win" that competition anyway, and will anybody ever see the 10k Baht. I'd like to know when they do - credibility at stake, and that may be the final straw for me).

My 2 cents (of probably 6 or 8 cents of mine so far in this thread, though some 4 cents have "disappeared" ).

[ThaiLife]

You don't have to watch all the flashing if you don't want to ...

[JacknDanny]

Um, I'm afraid we need to keep the discussion of ad removal out of the public forum.

I agree with KJ that the search function could be improved (the tags may help with that). Thread pinning is up to each individual forum mod; but in many forums if too many threads are pinned it gets annoying as threads slip off the first page more quickly. On the other hand, in the teacher's forum we do a lot of thread merging for topics with similar themes (like questions about qualifications for those who want to start teaching in Thailand). But it's up to the subforum moderators, who are all (as has been pointed out) volunteers.

Can you kindly point me in the direction of where in the forum rules, it states that ad removals or discussions of ads affecting the site, cannot be discussed?

From my point of you I understand that the owners of this site are not a charitable organisation, and it is a fine balance between making money and keeping everybody happy.

It would be impossible to run this site without advertisers and advertisments. However I have noticed a spike in annoying adverts recently, with all these flashing lights etc, etc. Apart from anything else it makes the loading of the pages very very slow, and in my opinion detracts from what I thought was the purpose of the site, ie information and sharing of views.

Swings and roundabouts, I'm afraid.

7) Spam, flooding, commercial or for-profit advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and similar solicitations are also inappropriate and not allowed on thaivisa.com. Any member who might violate this prohibition will be banned from these forums and this site. Membership is at the will of thaivisa.com. Our contracts with our advertisers prohibit comments with regard to advertisements which appear on our forums. Such comments should not be posted and will be removed. Please don't drop promotional urls, signature files, or specifics that would lead people to your site.

And while it does not specifically state ad removal, as you are well aware, it is not free for george to run this site, he must pay for the servers etc etc etc. To block ads is to say, essentially, that you want him to pay for everything, you want a say in how its run and yet you are unwilling to help him out by allowing ads.

sbk, I am disappointed

You are misquoting me!!

I have NEVER stated that ads should not be allowed, nor that george should pay for everything. (please re-read my post)

What I was saying is that there appears to be an increase in these type of ads with flashing, blinking, annoying stuff on them, that slow down the loading of the pages., and that I personally find annoying

Anyway thanks for pointing out 7 b I wasnt aware of it.

Edited February 10, 2009 by JacknDanny