Re:marriage Laws

[Shrek]

Can anyone help ?

1. If I marry in BK before my decree absolute is final in UK do I commot any offense in England eg bygamy

2. If I marry in BK can I still marry in England later

3. If I marry in BK does that alone meet all of the requirements for residency in 2 years ?

Thanks

ps for those who remember me from last summer ... yes things have moved on since then and we are very happy - my thai girlfriend left pattaya a couple of weeks after I returned home and since has stayed with her family 600 miles away from pattaya so there are some good hearts stuck in the seedy bars maybe I just got lucky

[the scouser]

Unfortunately it's a non-starter from the word go. If you are as yet not divorced you wouldn't be able to even marry in Thailand as in order to do so you need to swear an affirmation of freedom to marry and provide your decree absolute in order to get this. You could, of course, just lie but then the marriage would be legal neither in Thailand nor the UK as it would be bigamous, the maximum penalty for which is having 2 mothers-in-law . As the marriage would be unlawful your g/f would not qualify for a settlement visa.

Scouse.

[Shrek]

Unfortunately it's a non-starter from the word go. If you are as yet not divorced you wouldn't be able to even marry in Thailand as in order to do so you need to swear an affirmation of freedom to marry and provide your decree absolute in order to get this. You could, of course, just lie but then the marriage would be legal neither in Thailand nor the UK as it would be bigamous, the maximum penalty for which is having 2 mothers-in-law  . As the marriage would be unlawful your g/f would not qualify for a settlement visa.

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes suspected as much, not a big issue as the inetrview date is expected to be late march and the divorce expected final date is also expected late march so may as well hang on for the absolute to avoid any issues later if they check the dates on the papers are the wrong way round. Do you know the answers to the other 2 q?

[Richard W]

Can anyone help ?

1. If I marry in BK before my decree absolute is final in UK do I commot any offense in England eg  bygamy

If you mean registration at an amphur (or equivalent):

• Probably a criminal offence in Thailand!
  
• Probably perjury (in England) or equivalent, for you will have sworn that your affirmation of freedom to marry is true.
  
• It will not be valid for immigration purposes - if the visa is not refused, your wife will almost certainly be an illegal immigrant!
  

A blessing (monks, massive party etc.) seems to be legal - Simon43 is assuming it is - and I know a minor wife who had such a ceremony.

2. If I marry in BK can I still marry in England later

You can have the blessing in Thailand and have the legal marriage in England. Your girlfriend would then come to England on a fiancee visa (unless you're planning to move to Thailand immediately afterwards).

Scotland would probably be easier! It has the concept of a re-marriage when it is not clear whether a couple are married.

My wife was very dubious that our marriage in Thailand was valid. When I registered our daughter's birth, I asked the registrar about the legal position. His answer was that we should not have a second marriage, as it would cast doubt on the legality of the first marriage. As my wife and daughter's right to be in this country depend on the legality of that marriage, casting doubt on it would be unwise. My wife stopped worrying when she learnt that another English-Thai couple in the same town had married at the same 'amphur' as us.

If it matters to you, you can probably arrange for your union to be blessed in the UK. That certainly used to be done for couples who could not marry in church because one of the couple was divorced. How many receptions are you planning to have?

3. If I marry in BK does that alone meet all of the requirements for residency in 2 years ?

To what you actually wrote the answer is 'No way!'. A marriage registered at an amphur in Thailand is as valid as a marriage celebrated in England, but there are other issues.

The requirements for 'indefinite leave to remain' have recently been discussed (see topics started by Geoffers), but are basically that at the end of the two year probationary period your marriage is still subsisting (anglice: not broken down), that you can still maintain and support yourselves, and that your wife is in the UK. The probationary period starts when your wife enters the UK on a settlement visa, or, if she enters in any other way, when she is granted further leave to remain (fee £155).

Thanks

ps for those who remember me from last summer ... yes things have moved on since then and we are very happy - my thai girlfriend left pattaya a couple of weeks after I returned home and since has stayed with her family 600 miles away from pattaya so there are some good hearts stuck in the seedy bars maybe I just got lucky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm glad to hear your news. I was wondering about you over Christmas, and worrying that you might have been caught by the tsunami. I didn't try PMing you as I'd got it into my head that Shrek was just your avatar.

As to bargirls, I can remember a former hotel worker telling me they were 80% bad, 20% good. Many of us know that there are some good hearts in the bars. Good luck for the future - you already know that mixed marriages (male/female) have their problems.

[Shrek]

Can anyone help ?

1. If I marry in BK before my decree absolute is final in UK do I commot any offense in England eg  bygamy

If you mean registration at an amphur (or equivalent):

• Probably a criminal offence in Thailand!
  
• Probably perjury (in England) or equivalent, for you will have sworn that your affirmation of freedom to marry is true.
  
• It will not be valid for immigration purposes - if the visa is not refused, your wife will almost certainly be an illegal immigrant!
  Thought so thanks
  

A blessing (monks, massive party etc.) seems to be legal - Simon43 is assuming it is - and I know a minor wife who had such a ceremony.

2. If I marry in BK can I still marry in England later

You can have the blessing in Thailand and have the legal marriage in England. Your girlfriend would then come to England on a fiancee visa (unless you're planning to move to Thailand immediately afterwards).

OK

Scotland would probably be easier! It has the concept of a re-marriage when it is not clear whether a couple are married.

My wife was very dubious that our marriage in Thailand was valid. When I registered our daughter's birth, I asked the registrar about the legal position. His answer was that we should not have a second marriage, as it would cast doubt on the legality of the first marriage.

I have heard that before

As my wife and daughter's right to be in this country depend on the legality of that marriage, casting doubt on it would be unwise. My wife stopped worrying when she learnt that another English-Thai couple in the same town had married at the same 'amphur' as us.

If it matters to you, you can probably arrange for your union to be blessed in the UK. That certainly used to be done for couples who could not marry in church because one of the couple was divorced. How many receptions are you planning to have?

Will have a blessing in UK if marry in BK - one reception but it will last many days!

3. If I marry in BK does that alone meet all of the requirements for residency in 2 years ?

To what you actually wrote the answer is 'No way!'. A marriage registered at an amphur in Thailand is as valid as a marriage celebrated in England, but there are other issues.

The requirements for 'indefinite leave to remain' have recently been discussed (see topics started by Geoffers), but are basically that at the end of the two year probationary period your marriage is still subsisting (anglice: not broken down), that you can still maintain and support yourselves, and that your wife is in the UK. The probationary period starts when your wife enters the UK on a settlement visa, or, if she enters in any other way, when she is granted further leave to remain (fee £155).

Sorry I mislead you, I know there are other requirements I just meant will a marriage in BK be recognised when we apply for residency

Thanks

ps for those who remember me from last summer ... yes things have moved on since then and we are very happy - my thai girlfriend left pattaya a couple of weeks after I returned home and since has stayed with her family 600 miles away from pattaya so there are some good hearts stuck in the seedy bars maybe I just got lucky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm glad to hear your news. I was wondering about you over Christmas, and worrying that you might have been caught by the tsunami. I didn't try PMing you as I'd got it into my head that Shrek was just your avatar.

As to bargirls, I can remember a former hotel worker telling me they were 80% bad, 20% good. Many of us know that there are some good hearts in the bars. Good luck for the future - you already know that mixed marriages (male/female) have their problems.

I returned to Thailand after only a few weeks and stayed with her family in the middle of nowhere in the north east. I may never visit the gulf again, dunno, it was lucky for me but it still hurts to think of Pattaya, not only for me but for the other 20% of genuine girls who seem to have little chance of escape

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Richard W]

Yes suspected as much, not a big issue as the inetrview date is expected to be late march and the divorce expected final date is also expected late march so may as well hang on for the absolute to avoid any issues later if they check the dates on the papers are the wrong way round.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can (or at least, could in 1998) submit the visa application before the decree absolute. I would expect at least three-month delay before the earliest interview date. You don't have to take the first date offered - you can ask (and usually get) a later, more convenient date. Allow for time to get a Thai marriage certificate translated if you're marrying before the interview. (My schedule was something like: affirm on Monday, marry on Friday, interview on Thursday, buy wife's ticket and reschedule my flight the same morning, fly home together on Tuesday.) You may need to wait a few weeks from the decree absolute to actually getting the stamped copies - you will need to present one at your girlfriend/wife's visa interview, and possibly when you affirm that you are free to marry. I recall that fiancee visas are not issued before the fiance's decree absolute.

[the scouser]

The requirements for 'indefinite leave to remain' have recently been discussed ...but are basically that at the end of the two year probationary period your marriage is still subsisting (anglice: not broken down), that you can still maintain and support yourselves, and that your wife is in the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not only does the marriage have to be subsisting but you need to also still be living together. It is possible to have a subsisting marriage but live apart.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

You can (or at least, could in 1998) submit the visa application before the decree absolute.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but timing is the key as of the effective decision date; i.e. the date the visa officer decides whether or not to issue the visa, both parties must be free to marry.

Scouse.