Fairproperties Is Keeping Money From The Rentals Of My Condos, What Should I Do?

[David H]

I told you that I would report back on wether Fairproperties paid me the money that was owed to me for the rental of two of my condos. The deadline was today 3-3-09. Fairproperties DID NOT PAY ME . I don't understand why a big company like this is doing this to me. But I do know that they are liers who will steal your money. I found out the hard way. I have not received a cent for two months of rentals of two condos. They owe me for the months of January and February. We need to stand together somehow. I am from the USA and I realize that its my problem but you can spread the word to every one you know. They are pocketing 60,000 baht of my money with no one the wiser unless we talk about it here, and you tell others about this problem. Thank you all for the support I have recieved from you.

[foxxx]

sorry to hear, might be best to call up a lawyer in pattaya and have them drive on over and see what they can get out of them, they might be able to negotiate something.

[norrona]

been at it for years fair properties have...used to rent condos short term when owners were overseas and they knew wouldn't be back for a while...got caught out when certain owners decided to check their utility bills...this is just one of many things and they are not alone in doing this...might have a big office and loads of listings in the window but it doesn't make them straight!

you as the owner should have checked what they do with the holding deposits and if your paperwork is in order then you will have plenty proof and should get your money back when you turn up with a policeman bacuase this is fraud and they take it very seriously down soi 9...especially if you say help me get my money and theres so much in it for you...i'd even go large and hit them up for damages...

seen loads of stuff happen in my 10 years as a real estate agent in pattaya....this is a real low and doesn't help out other honest companies with integrity

[basjke]

I might be wrong but isn't fair properties the one who donated the land for the immigration office?If so they might be standing above the law.

[Chopper]

I might be wrong but isn't fair properties the one who donated the land for the immigration office?If so they might be standing above the law.

The owner of Pattaya Property's built Immigration as a quid pro quo against being prosecuted due to illegal activities being carried out during regular party's at his villa many years ago when he got raided.

The electronic ticketing machines in Immigration were supplied by Fair Property's as a gift. One of many gifts/envelopes the well connected owner had donated over the years.

Send an email and put in the subject line: FAO: The Owner. The owner will then most probably be given your email to read.

[norrona]

I might be wrong but isn't fair properties the one who donated the land for the immigration office?If so they might be standing above the law.

The owner of Pattaya Property's built Immigration as a quid pro quo against being prosecuted due to illegal activities being carried out during regular party's at his villa many years ago when he got raided.

The electronic ticketing machines in Immigration were supplied by Fair Property's as a gift. One of many gifts/envelopes the well connected owner had donated over the years.

Send an email and put in the subject line: FAO: The Owner. The owner will then most probably be given your email to read.

don't you do a bit of debt collecting chopper? theres an opening here for you mate

[Tarqin]

As said Fair Properties have been at it for years. I would never deal with them but I would never threaten the owner either. He is connected and knows how to make problems go away.

You need a trip to Pattaya new locks and new tenants. The rest you need to chalk up to experience.

[torrenova]

One way to do it which the Thais use is first and last where you pay the deposit (2 months rent) but use 1 month in the first month and 1 month for the last month, thus using up your deposit. We've just gone through that in Buriram.

Tenants like this are a real pain. I'm on the other side of the coin as a landlord and i'm so tired of tenants suddenly stopping payment before they move out on the understanding (their understanding i should say) that they need not pay as their deposit will cover it. Completely defeats the object of having a deposit in the first place. Just yesterday i was forced to go round and cut the water supply of one place because the tenant had stopped paying and wouldn't take my calls.

Funnily enough, the tenant suddenly regained the ability to communicate with me.

That said, i do feel for tenants for don't get their deposits back. When i take a deposit it goes straight into a high interest account and isn't touched. The tenant gets it back with accumulated interest assuming of course there are no deductions from damages or what-have-you. Shame that other landlords/ladies don't follow the same practice.

Don't knock me for this daft first and last thing as it was the landlord who suggested it. I think it is daft but the apparent thinking is that they don't want the responsibility to find the deposit money.

As for the case of me not paying rent then I'll expand. The owner had a guy come collect the rent each month. The agent had been given one month's money as commission. Now this guy never had any money, sometimes asking me for something on account to buy this or that. My contract was up in the May but the owner was not back until October. Just what chance do you think I stood to get my deposit back ? None, I suspect, unless someone else moved in and paid the deposit.

Now I don't see why I should have to lose Bt32,000 because of some tosser landlord - do you ?

The problem is that if you give the deposit to the landlord then they have a chance to spend it. If the agent keeps it then they have a chance to spend it. There is not a perfect solution unless you can be assured that you will get your deposit back.

[David H]

As said Fair Properties have been at it for years. I would never deal with them but I would never threaten the owner either. He is connected and knows how to make problems go away.

You need a trip to Pattaya new locks and new tenants. The rest you need to chalk up to experience.

Tarqin, I am in the process of getting a tenant out of one of my condos, the other is being placed with another company. My friend has used this other company for a year and a half with no complaints. I will chang the locks when done. The thai lawyers aren't worth it. I contacted one that wanted 3,000 baht just to send a letter to Fairproperties. I would engage a lawyer that upon completion of the job, and sucessfully getting my money back a percentage of the retrieved funds. I will not start handing out thousands of baht with no guarantee of sucess, and get shafted twice.

[Chopper]

I might be wrong but isn't fair properties the one who donated the land for the immigration office?If so they might be standing above the law.

The owner of Pattaya Property's built Immigration as a quid pro quo against being prosecuted due to illegal activities being carried out during regular party's at his villa many years ago when he got raided.

The electronic ticketing machines in Immigration were supplied by Fair Property's as a gift. One of many gifts/envelopes the well connected owner had donated over the years.

Send an email and put in the subject line: FAO: The Owner. The owner will then most probably be given your email to read.

don't you do a bit of debt collecting chopper? theres an opening here for you mate

OK 'norrona', I will bite: to the OP I would venture to suggest that the owner will have not seen your emails. Further to my post above; write in the subject line. FAO: Mr R. Belgravia (OWNER). You will be sure to get his attention!

FP get thousands of emails that are sorted out by the staff and ones with subject lines thus will be passed on to him. (He is almost never in the office), he just checks the daily reconciliation sheets from wherever he may be...

[Phil Conners]

Some European banks offer a kind of escrow bank account where the tenant puts the deposit in his own name but is unable to release the funds until the landlord signs a document that everything is in order. Unfortunately banks here have never heard of anything like this.

[Lost in LOS]

Consumer Protection Agency

they will be scared of it

[Basil B]

As said Fair Properties have been at it for years. I would never deal with them but I would never threaten the owner either. He is connected and knows how to make problems go away.

You need a trip to Pattaya new locks and new tenants. The rest you need to chalk up to experience.

Tarqin, I am in the process of getting a tenant out of one of my condos, the other is being placed with another company. My friend has used this other company for a year and a half with no complaints. I will chang the locks when done. The thai lawyers aren't worth it. I contacted one that wanted 3,000 baht just to send a letter to Fairproperties. I would engage a lawyer that upon completion of the job, and sucessfully getting my money back a percentage of the retrieved funds. I will not start handing out thousands of baht with no guarantee of sucess, and get shafted twice.

One thing you may have overlooked is that you probably signed an "Power of Attorney" agreement with FP, suggest you revoke it with immediate effect, Write to them with a recorded letter or get your friend to deliver it with a witness and get them to sign for it. the send letter to the Juristic Person at your condo informing them that FP no longer act on your behalf and any POA's with FP are now negated, also explain the problems with your unwanted tenant.

As I recall FP is run by farang, just more proof that it is more likely that you will get ripped of by one of your own.

[Guderian]

Some European banks offer a kind of escrow bank account where the tenant puts the deposit in his own name but is unable to release the funds until the landlord signs a document that everything is in order. Unfortunately banks here have never heard of anything like this.

What's to stop you asking a decent lawyer or third-party estate agent to hold the deposit, with the fee to be paid 50/50 by lessor/lessee, say?

[Phil Conners]

Some European banks offer a kind of escrow bank account where the tenant puts the deposit in his own name but is unable to release the funds until the landlord signs a document that everything is in order. Unfortunately banks here have never heard of anything like this.

What's to stop you asking a decent lawyer or third-party estate agent to hold the deposit, with the fee to be paid 50/50 by lessor/lessee, say?

Probably would be difficult to find someone that both parties would trust.

[foxxx]

could just rent a pickup with a billboard to sit outside their office with a big sign saying FP RIPPED ME OFF... that might get their attention...

[David H]

could just rent a pickup with a billboard to sit outside their office with a big sign saying FP RIPPED ME OFF... that might get their attention...

Foxx I don't believe that I'm the first one that Fairproperties has stolen money, but it does seem odd that I hadn't heard about it before. I obviously would have chosen another company. I had a feeling that something was wrong last year, when I had gotten e-mail acess to my thai bank account. I found out that no money was in the account, but the condos had been rented. Fairproperties said that the person that was in charge of my condos forgot to put the money in my account. Tung the owners wife, I believe said that they were sorry, and it would not happen again. they did deposit that money. They also agreed to have the money put into my account within 7-10 days of receiving it from the client, that promise was never kept. I had to repeatedly e-mail them and have my wife call them to ask them to put the money into my account. Every month it was the same story the person in charge of your account is out sick, they next week their on vacation time off etc. till it was the end of the month then the money was put into my account usually the last week of the month. Now, here we are and they haven't put money owed 2months worth of rental into my account. They ignore my E-mails and don't even respond. You know hind sight is twenty -twenty, that saying applies here. Last year (when they forgot to put my money into my account) a dozen redflags went up, but I ignored them. Now I'm paying for that. Everyone here take warning, Fairproperties is a corrupt organization run by a falang, and they will steal your money. I have learned the hard way ! Take care, David Henault

[David H]

I might be wrong but isn't fair properties the one who donated the land for the immigration office?If so they might be standing above the law.

The owner of Pattaya Property's built Immigration as a quid pro quo against being prosecuted due to illegal activities being carried out during regular party's at his villa many years ago when he got raided.

The electronic ticketing machines in Immigration were supplied by Fair Property's as a gift. One of many gifts/envelopes the well connected owner had donated over the years.

Send an email and put in the subject line: FAO: The Owner. The owner will then most probably be given your email to read.

don't you do a bit of debt collecting chopper? theres an opening here for you mate

OK 'norrona', I will bite: to the OP I would venture to suggest that the owner will have not seen your emails. Further to my post above; write in the subject line. FAO: Mr R. Belgravia (OWNER). You will be sure to get his attention!

FP get thousands of emails that are sorted out by the staff and ones with subject lines thus will be passed on to him. (He is almost never in the office), he just checks the daily reconciliation sheets from wherever he may be...

Chopper, Thanks for the advice, I have done what you said to do. I have nothing to lose at this point. Stay tuned i will keep you updated .

[David H]

Consumer Protection Agency

they will be scared of it

Lost in LOS, Thank you also, I have contacted the Consumer Protection Agency in Bangkok. I am waiting for a reply, stay tuned I will keep you informed.

[xminator]

Personaly I had a very good experience with this company two years ago. It might be that my wife is thai, but the impression was still good. Of course, a lot of things can happen in two years, and I did notice a long delay in new condo postings on their webpage at the start of "high season". BTW, I got my deposit back in cash. Is there anyone that got their deposits back recently, because if this was a company in trouble it would be the rule and not exeption. Otherwise mistakes do happen, and communicating with thai is not always error-free...

[barky]

Seems that they are not so ''fair '' .Send a few Thai men around .

Kinda agree here. If you want to see any of your money you'd better start and fight hard NOW. On the other hand, if you don't have the stomach for a bit of a fight (not the physical type preferably) right it off and find another agent (one without the word "fair" in their name) or alternatively manage it yourself if you can.

Edited March 5, 2009 by barky

[David H]

Seems that they are not so ''fair '' .Send a few Thai men around .

Kinda agree here. If you want to see any of your money you'd better start and fight hard NOW. On the other hand, if you don't have the stomach for a bit of a fight (not the physical type preferably) right it off and find another agent (one without the word "fair" in their name) or alternatively manage it yourself if you can.

I have some news, I have since received some of the money, 36,000 baht . Fairprpoperties still owes me and the wife another 18,000 baht. I did report them to the Department of Consumer Affairs in Bangkok, for suspicious business practices. We'll see if the other 18,000 baht shows up. The 36,000 was over two months late, but better late, than never as the saying goes. I will not be a customer of theirs again. I own three condos and they did not mind treating me badly, as they still have many more people signing up to use there service every week. I had also sent a e-mail to the owner, with no response (Mr. R. Belgravia ) I hope that Fairproperties will show everyone on this forum that they will do the Right thing, by returning ALL money owed, and maybe restore some trust and respect. David H.

[NanLaew]

Until you actually spend some money, retain legal counsel or send a recorded delivery letter to this company, you will;

A ) Continue to get strung along with partial payments.

B ) Continue to waste bandwidth on this forum.

They are playing you and you have already fallen nicely into their little trap when you state 'better late than never'. You have been out of pocket for two months already and most likely will be for another month at least but you see this as progress? Would you be as forgiving with other blatant thieves and robbers or would you just send them an email asking for your stuff back? You contacted one lawyer and think 3000 baht is too much for a letter. Up to you but cadging for other badly treated clients on this forum to band together and help you out isn't going to get you your money any time soon. Farangs who live here quickly adopt this Thai 'face' bullsh!t and they aren't about to make it public that they have been shafted by 'one of their own'.

[David H]

Until you actually spend some money, retain legal counsel or send a recorded delivery letter to this company, you will;

A ) Continue to get strung along with partial payments.

B ) Continue to waste bandwidth on this forum.

They are playing you and you have already fallen nicely into their little trap when you state 'better late than never'. You have been out of pocket for two months already and most likely will be for another month at least but you see this as progress? Would you be as forgiving with other blatant thieves and robbers or would you just send them an email asking for your stuff back? You contacted one lawyer and think 3000 baht is too much for a letter. Up to you but cadging for other badly treated clients on this forum to band together and help you out isn't going to get you your money any time soon. Farangs who live here quickly adopt this Thai 'face' bullsh!t and they aren't about to make it public that they have been shafted by 'one of their own'.

NanLaew, I am not getting strung along, I don't trust thai lawyers who want to get paid for doing basicly nothing. I mean a letter for 3 thousand baht, and then they guarantee nothing. I would use a lawyer if they were to be paid pro bono. They get a percentage of all money recovered, no recovery no pay day. I have recovered most of the money owed to me, and I'm not being strung along as yo call it. I have told alot of people about their bad business practices and I don't give a ("""""") about face. I know what you say about others worrying about it and you may be right about that, as I don"t see any responses from the others that were screwed. I will give Fairproperties more time to pay the rest of the money owed to me, as I have said. As far as wasting bandwidth maybe you are just as guilty of that. I don't consider what I have written and said a waste, because to warn others is something a responsible human should do, and it is the right thing.

[chiangmaibruce]

I hope you get every last satang back - this sort of business operation really sux and should be closed down. A couple of tips from one who has pursued money from turkeys like this:

1. never release the pressure on them even minutely until such time as you have ALL your money back. In fact I recommend a process of slowly/gradually/regularly winding it on. eg. every monday make a point to write a post in a new thai expat forum telling of your experiences etc etc. I am not sure what you meant about "giving them more time". If they think you will drop the ball then they will proceed accordingly (and stall, duck and weave, etc). If you don't have the time (a lot of it) and the writing skills then that's where a (good) lawyer may be worth the money. get a personal recommendation, not some wally you found with google.

2. once you have commited to fight for your rights then be very careful in everything you say or do. assume for example that every email or letter you write will, at a later date, be read by a magistrate - and write accordingly. never abusive, never exaggerated, never anything that could be construed as threatening them with violence, etc. many people in your position come unstuck this way - they start off 100% in the right but then blunder and end up giving ammunition to the people they are pursuing and completely undermine their own cause.

3. as others posters have suggested formalise every step with registered/witnessed letters. as well as being good business practice this tells the turkeys that you are thinking and are serious about getting your money back - not just some mindless ranter

keep at it

- CB

[David H]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to finish this post. I did not recieve the last months rent on one of my condo. Fairproperties has robbed me and the wife. I will not hire a lawyer for the last 20,000 baht owed to me. The lawyers would get all of it anyhow. FAIRPROPERTIES ARE THIEVES BEWARE OF DOING ANY BUSINESS WITH THEM. i WAS ROBBED OF THE 20,000 BAHT OWED TO THE WIFE AND I. It has been two months and I will never deal with them again, it was just an ordeal.. I just wanted to let my friends on this forum know, so they don't make the same mistake.

[Boyzie]

Anyone know of this lot are still not passing on rents?

[dogleg]

Their offices were closed at VT1 and Foodmart yesterday afternoon.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

David

If you have a friend who could talk to the bib and offer them 50% of what they collect chances are they will pursue the matter. They may decide they want 100% but better the bib get the money than unfair properties. Since you are writing it off anyhow why not cause them some grief?

[Asianrider]

Anyone know of this lot are still not passing on rents?

A friend of mine has been having similar problems to DavidH, initially they paid a small amount of the arrears, then it has been a series of broken promises. Clearly you do business with at your peril !