Andaman Storm Sinks Dive Boat: Seven dead

[RubbahSlippahs]

What part of Phuket did this tragedy occur? Close to shore or far out?

It must've been a gnarly wave.

[thefalang]

I have seen here many comments about safety and attitude. Obviously, the standard is not at the level where most people want it.

I think, we should not try to change people because firstly there is no right to do so (it is indeed THEIR country) and secondly because time has shown that it does not work if we try. So why not changing ourselves? If we seek the lowest price, we also get the lowest standard. If I do not have confidence in "this Thai captain" - well: is it so hard not to do the trip with him? We seemingly have forgotten to take responsibility for our own activities; there are so often people who know it better - unfortunately always only afterwards...

The best we can make from this accident now, is to find what happened and how. From there, someone can carry on and do it better and his/her efforts should be honoured; those who do not thrive for (active, please!) improvement better go down as well.

Is Dive Asia to blame? For the victims that does not make a difference. I am sure that this company followed all requirements - if they are sufficient or not - and obviously did more for the standard than many other competitors. It seems that everyone knows about those "typically Thai" conditions and so each individual must be aware of taking a risk probably. That is the price of being an adult.

The vivid discussion about a dead couple found is indeed somehow displaced. On the other hand: If it is true what we all seem to think here - if we cannot change the fact that we die, it seems best not to die alone but in company with someone we love. I think there was a successful movie about a similar topic...

I personally decided to let everyone get away with everything - - - as long as they don't get away with ME!

Up to now I am still breathing

Phuket is a world-famous tourist destination spot whereas many hotels and tourist activities are charged at levels commensurate with those in other locations of the world. Why should a tourist expect a lower level of safety and/or competance in the (so called) Thai professionals (captains, engineers, etc) with whom they have entrusted their lives?

Your statement "I personally decided to let everyone get away with everything - - - as long as they don't get away with ME! " demonstrates that you have little understanding of this matter and/or have a limited ability to converse intelligently on the matter.

[thefalang]

Condolences to the families of the deceased.

I hope Thailand stays the way it is. I like Thailand the way it is and I live here because of the freedom and lack of bullshit bureaucracies.

Thailand leaves alot open for "common sense" issues to be determined by each individual. NO, I'm not saying that the people that died on that ferry had no common sense, so spare me the bs.

Of course every boat should have an EPERB on board, but if it doesn't, you can bring your own, they are not expensive, and you can also wear your life jacket the entire time you are on the boat and can even buy your own boat if you want to. Some may ask "If EPERBS are not expensive, then why don't all the boats have them?" And the answer is because tourists, and everyone else as well, want CHEAP tickets.

Also, as with many things in life, complacency is the downfall. You get what you pay for, prepare for and train for.

I get so tired of people trying to push their opinions and concepts on other people and other countries, so I will spare you mine.

I also really get tired of hearing tourists happily chatting about how CHEAP the ferries, busses etc. are and then when something happens on one of the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of trips these boats and buses make, they make it sound like everything in Thailand is a catastrophe.

I won't go as far as saying "accept it or leave ", but I don't think this country should be like your or any other country, or it wouldn't be Thailand.

[thefalang]

Condolences to the families of the deceased.

I hope Thailand stays the way it is. I like Thailand the way it is and I live here because of the freedom and lack of bullshit bureaucracies.

Thailand leaves alot open for "common sense" issues to be determined by each individual. NO, I'm not saying that the people that died on that ferry had no common sense, so spare me the bs.

Of course every boat should have an EPERB on board, but if it doesn't, you can bring your own, they are not expensive, and you can also wear your life jacket the entire time you are on the boat and can even buy your own boat if you want to. Some may ask "If EPERBS are not expensive, then why don't all the boats have them?" And the answer is because tourists, and everyone else as well, want CHEAP tickets.

Also, as with many things in life, complacency is the downfall. You get what you pay for, prepare for and train for.

I get so tired of people trying to push their opinions and concepts on other people and other countries, so I will spare you mine.

I also really get tired of hearing tourists happily chatting about how CHEAP the ferries, busses etc. are and then when something happens on one of the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of trips these boats and buses make, they make it sound like everything in Thailand is a catastrophe.

I won't go as far as saying "accept it or leave ", but I don't think this country should be like your or any other country, or it wouldn't be Thailand.

You suggest that a tourist bring along his private "EPIRB" (not EPERB). That's as ridiculous as requiring a customer to bring his own own place setting to a restaurant. You obviously have no clue as to standard protocol or Int'l standards for marine-related businesses.

Your statement "Also, as with many things in life, complacency is the downfall. You get what you pay for, prepare for and train for." You don't always get what you pay for. Do you actually reside in Thailand and if so, how long have you lived in Thailand?

You also stated "I hope Thailand stays the way it is. I like Thailand the way it is and I live here because of the freedom and lack of bullshit bureaucracies." Do you as a foreigner (I assume you are a non-Thai) actually feel "free", do you not experience any racism and do you not experience "bullshit bureaucracies" more so than your native country?

I'm looking forward to your reply and "common sense" regarding these issues.

[JetsetBkk]

...The homicide with firearms rates in Thailand are equally as staggering.

Yes. Staggeringly wrong.

Based on the 8^th UN survey 2002, Thailand rated 3^rd in the world for murders with firearms, surpassed only by Columbia and South Africa. On a per capita basis, Thailand’s murder rate was approximately 6 times that of the US. Thailand’s murder rate (all causes) was double that of the US.

All your deductions are wrong because the source data is wrong. Check out this post and thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Ran...t&p=1573400

[corky]

Hiya,

To End all speculations a direct eye-wittness (a german diver who survived) reported on a german forum (taucher.Net) :

"Es war kein nennenswerter Wellengang vorhanden, das Schiff wurde durch den Wind auf die Steuerbordseite umgedrückt."

...there has been no significant Swell /Waves , the boat has been thrown to the side by the wind...free translated...

Does this statement match with the captains explanations, hmmmm ???...

ciao

[Quero]

Hiya,

To End all speculations a direct eye-wittness (a german diver who survived) reported on a german forum (taucher.Net) :

"Es war kein nennenswerter Wellengang vorhanden, das Schiff wurde durch den Wind auf die Steuerbordseite umgedrückt."

...there has been no significant Swell /Waves , the boat has been thrown to the side by the wind...free translated...

Does this statement match with the captains explanations, hmmmm ???...

ciao

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there, corky--whether you are saying that this suvivor's story supports what the captain said or contradicts it, but he certainly is entirely positive about Dive Asia in general, the boat (and it's safety features), and the crew.

For those who read German, one of the Dive Asia staff's story is published here. (For those who don't read German, Google can translate for you.)

[LivinLOS]

If I do not have confidence in "this Thai captain" - well: is it so hard not to do the trip with him?

Isnt it a legal requirement to have a Thai captain ??

[john b good]

Is there a list (names) of the dead ?

[NBT TV Phuket]

VDO: Six bodies have now been recovered from a sunken boat off Phuket leaving one body missing.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/prev...hp?news_id=1014

or

It has been 5 days since the Dive Asia boat, taking divers back from the Similans to Chalong pier in Phuket, sunk in severe weather and a total of six bodies have now been recovered out of seven missing from the accident. This follows intensive search operations by the authority and boat company. On Thursday morning experienced scuba divers from Marine Police with Kusoltham Foundation staff departed Rasada port in Marine police boat TOR 814 for the search and recovery of the bodies confirmed to have been trapped inside the boat as spotted since Wednesday evening. The five bodies included two believed to be Austrian, two Swiss, and one Japanese national, while another Austrian was found floating earlier on Tuesday. This leaves one person, still missing, the Thai cook. The Austrian diver’s funeral was held at Wat Prathong on Thursday.

When our news team went out to see marine travelers at Rasada port, it was still crowded with tourists mostly heading to Phi Phi island of Krabi. The Phuket Marine chief Mr. Oran Hengjaroen requested that boat operators and passengers check weather conditions before traveling out to sea.

Meanwhile one of the rescued DiveAsia passengers, Australian Michael Sampson, who Andaman News interviewed after he was recovered, told phuket-info.com forum that a DiveAsia dive master named Christian was a ‘true hero’ by swimming out in the dark night to bring four people drifting in the sea back to the life-rafts and ‘save their lives’. 23 then survived when they attracted a fishing boat by flashing sunlight with mirrors after half a day in the life-rafts.

Andaman News NBT TV (VHF dial) + Radio Thailand FM90.5 at 8.30am & perhaps repeats on Phuket Cable TV channel 1 at 7pm & 1am, broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces & maybe Mazz Radio FM108 at 7pm in Phuket, Friday13th March 2009 & http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/

& www.YouTube.com/AndamanNews

Send comments to [email protected]

Edited March 13, 2009 by NBT TV Phuket

[stevenl]

On the second point I can assure you that the majority of people learning to dive here and some experienced dive tourists have no concept of personal safety and what it entails. They rely on operators to take care of them and training agencies condone and encourage this for commercial reasons.

The standard of diving courses here on Phuket is high, and certainly comparable to those in Western Europe, and IMO higher than those in the USA or Australia foe example.

[saneroad]

Is there a list (names) of the dead ?

Found and identified are: Yuba Hirotsuga, Japan; Klaus Konradoer, Austria; Monika Schuster, Austria; Gabrielle Jetzinger, Austria; Sibylle Bucher, Switzerland, Rolf Niederberge, Switzerland.

A search is still underway for the boat's Thai cook, Jumpa Sorntat.

[corky]

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there, corky--whether you are saying that this suvivor's story supports what the captain said or contradicts it, but he certainly is entirely positive about Dive Asia in general, the boat (and it's safety features), and the crew.

I don`t belive 2-3 freak-waves turned the boat to the side. Where they should came from ?, from the shore ? I`ve seen many diveboats over the years on Phuket and a lot of them are too top-heavy. When there is sufficent weight

in the hull, they are more or less stable, but after a few days abroad , a lot of fuel and freshwater (a few tons ! ) must been gone and the boat gets more top-heavy.

When I hearded about that a dive-boat sunk, I had in mind an other one , with a similar design.

It has been only a question of time, a tragedy like this must happen!

I apologize, if I hurt somebody with my written thoughts, but I think its nessesary that all facts been revealed and to be talked about to avoid similar accidents in the future.

Edited March 13, 2009 by corky

[seri thai]

On the second point I can assure you that the majority of people learning to dive here and some experienced dive tourists have no concept of personal safety and what it entails. They rely on operators to take care of them and training agencies condone and encourage this for commercial reasons.

The standard of diving courses here on Phuket is high, and certainly comparable to those in Western Europe, and IMO higher than those in the USA or Australia foe example.

Well that's Phuket off the hook then isn't it?

[thaiwanderer]

On the second point I can assure you that the majority of people learning to dive here and some experienced dive tourists have no concept of personal safety and what it entails. They rely on operators to take care of them and training agencies condone and encourage this for commercial reasons.

The standard of diving courses here on Phuket is high, and certainly comparable to those in Western Europe, and IMO higher than those in the USA or Australia foe example.

Joking, right?

[baabaabobo]

Body found at sea presumed to be missing cook

PHUKET: Earlier today, Marine police found what they suspect

is the body of the last victim from the Choke Somboon 19 dive

boat accident in which seven people went missing when the

boat capsized during a storm about 12 miles off the coast of

Phuket on March 8.

Having found and identified the bodies of six missing tourists

who were on the boat when it sank, police believe they have

now found the body of the boat's cook, a male Thai national,

floating about 24 miles off the coast of Phuket.

The body was discovered during air and sea search operations

at 1pm today and the Department of Disaster Prevention &

Mitigation - Phuket are currently working to confirm the identity

of the body.

From The Phuket Gazette

[thefalang]

...The homicide with firearms rates in Thailand are equally as staggering.

Yes. Staggeringly wrong.

Based on the 8^th UN survey 2002, Thailand rated 3^rd in the world for murders with firearms, surpassed only by Columbia and South Africa. On a per capita basis, Thailand's murder rate was approximately 6 times that of the US. Thailand's murder rate (all causes) was double that of the US.

All your deductions are wrong because the source data is wrong. Check out this post and thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Ran...t&p=1573400

"All my deductions are wrong because the source data is wrong"... How can you justify such a comment?

Statistics aside, I'm certain, based on my personal experiences fromover 20-years in Thailand, that the incidence of murders and traffic fatalites is extremely high. I don't have to refer to statistics compiled by the UN or anyone else for that matter. I did find a credible source that susbtantiated my personal conclusions on these two issues and shared my findings with this forum.

I read the thread you mentioned regarding flawed statistics and I admit that statistics (from any source) always contain a margin of error.

[JetsetBkk]

"All my deductions are wrong because the source data is wrong"... How can you justify such a comment?

Statistics aside...

I can justify it simply because the statistics are wrong. Whoever tried to use the data that was supplied written in Thai, misread it - they simply did not understand what was written. Nationmaster used that data so their ranking for Thailand is wrong.

The "per capita basis" list that you gave is identical to the Nationmaster ranking, so is also wrong.

...Statistics aside, I'm certain, based on my personal experiences fromover 20-years in Thailand, that the incidence of murders and traffic fatalites is extremely high. I don't have to refer to statistics compiled by the UN or anyone else for that matter. I did find a credible source that susbtantiated my personal conclusions on these two issues and shared my findings with this forum...

I quite agree that the incidences of traffic deaths and murder are high, but the Nationmaster data has been shown to be wrong, is not credible, and that's what you used to back up your opinion.

...I read the thread you mentioned regarding flawed statistics and I admit that statistics (from any source) always contain a margin of error.

The margin of error is 300%. The figure for crimes where a gun was involved was used as the number of murders! So the figure for murders by gun was four times too big and gave Thailand a totally wrong ranking of 3rd in the world.

[markg]

[LivinLOS]

The surviving Ozzie diver is a board member on Phuket-info.. His account of the story is scary as hel_l and basically confirms the theory of simply strong wind blew the top heavy craft over.. Sudden storm, side wind, over it went straight away (low heel angle of righting).. He made it out through the water inflow and chaos, the people that died were in the higher cabins on the side that went down, apparently when it capsized the windows on that side popped / broke and flooded the cabins. One woman survived that side by getting some air trapped in a air pocket in her cupboard and then swimming out through the broken window and to safety !!!

Also tale of heroics from one of the DM's who left the lifeboats to rescue others.. Bloody legend.

[thefalang]

"All my deductions are wrong because the source data is wrong"... How can you justify such a comment?

Statistics aside...

I can justify it simply because the statistics are wrong. Whoever tried to use the data that was supplied written in Thai, misread it - they simply did not understand what was written. Nationmaster used that data so their ranking for Thailand is wrong.

The "per capita basis" list that you gave is identical to the Nationmaster ranking, so is also wrong.

...Statistics aside, I'm certain, based on my personal experiences fromover 20-years in Thailand, that the incidence of murders and traffic fatalites is extremely high. I don't have to refer to statistics compiled by the UN or anyone else for that matter. I did find a credible source that susbtantiated my personal conclusions on these two issues and shared my findings with this forum...

I quite agree that the incidences of traffic deaths and murder are high, but the Nationmaster data has been shown to be wrong, is not credible, and that's what you used to back up your opinion.

...I read the thread you mentioned regarding flawed statistics and I admit that statistics (from any source) always contain a margin of error.

The margin of error is 300%. The figure for crimes where a gun was involved was used as the number of murders! So the figure for murders by gun was four times too big and gave Thailand a totally wrong ranking of 3rd in the world.

Here are some more statistics (from various sources) that support the notion that Thailand has extremely high incidence of deaths from various sources. It's up to the individual to compile as much data as one can, "qualify" the data and then make a deduction. I've made my deduction, and it's not based solely on data from one source.

As per the Global Peace Index 2008:

Thai USA

Number of homicides per 100,000 people 3 2

Level of violent crime 4 1

Level of organised conflict (internal) 3 1

Overall rank 2008 1-140 (1 most peacful) 118 97

As per GRSP (Global Road Safety Partnership) in Thailand and the Thai Ministry of Transport and Communications:

Basic indicators for 10 HMCs (1996)

USA Thailand

Road fatalities 41,967 16,782

Deaths per 100,000 pop. 15.8 28.0

Motor vehicles per1000 pop. 787 294

Motor vehicles in use(x1000) 208,801 17,666

Fatalities per 100,000 MV 20 95

Deaths per 10,000 motor vehicles 2 9.5

GNP per capita ($USD) 29,339

As per WHO:

Heavy vehicle driver collision with car, pickup, van *

Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)

#1 Ecuador: 185 deaths

#2 Thailand: 48 deaths

#3 Mexico: 15 deaths

#4 Venezuela: 6 deaths

#5 Korea, South: 6 deaths

#6 Egypt: 4 deaths

#7 Netherlands: 2 deaths

#8 United States: 2 deaths

#9 Paraguay: 1 deaths

#10 Japan: 1 deaths

#11 Colombia: 1 deaths

#12 Brazil: 1 deaths

#13 El Salvador: 1 deaths

#14 Norway: 1 deaths

#15 Germany: 1 deaths

this is particularily relevant to this thread:

Unspecified drowning and submersion (per capita)

Deaths per 1 million people (numbers rounded to nearest whole digit)

#1 Belize: 64

#2 Thailand: 56

#3 Cayman Islands :45

#4 Kyrgyzstan: 44

#5 El Salvador:: 42

#42 Japan: 3

#39 US: 4

#57 UK: 0

Source: WHO Database compiled January 2004.

[stevenl]

On the second point I can assure you that the majority of people learning to dive here and some experienced dive tourists have no concept of personal safety and what it entails. They rely on operators to take care of them and training agencies condone and encourage this for commercial reasons.

The standard of diving courses here on Phuket is high, and certainly comparable to those in Western Europe, and IMO higher than those in the USA or Australia foe example.

Joking, right?

No, speaking from experience.

[ScubaBuddha]

I don`t belive 2-3 freak-waves turned the boat to the side. Where they should came from ?, from the shore ?

Corky, Have you ever spent any time at sea? I doubt it or you would know that when mother nature decides to change her moods, she can do so quickly. In minutes a perfectly flat ocean can become questionable sailing conditions at best. I have seen this.

SB

Edited March 14, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[george]

Update:

Last body in Andaman tragedy recovered; DNA tests identify six foreign victims

PHUKET: -- The body of a Thai cook, the last remaining of seven victims missing at sea this week after a tourist boat capsized in the Andaman Sea Sunday night, has been recovered, Thai navy officials said.

The body of Sornthat Champa, identified as a cook, was found late Friday and was later taken ashore at Phuket’s deep sea port and received by the governor and the third region navy commander.

Seven persons in total, including Mr. Sornthat, drowned Sunday night when their boat capsized in the Andaman Sea during a heavy storm. The bodies of the other six victims-- three Austrians, two Swiss and a Japanese--were retrieved earlier.

Pol. Col. Nithi Banthuwong, chief of the National Police’s personal identification agency, said DNA, teeth and fingerprint tests on the foreign victims were now completed and that the remains of some of the victims had already been given to families for religious rites.

Col. Nithi said rites for the Japanese man were held Saturday morning at a Thai Buddhist temple in Phuket and that rites for an Austrian victim will be conducted at the same temple in the afternoon.

The remains of an Austrian woman and a Swiss man are still lying in hospital, awaiting their relatives arrival to claim them, Col. Nithi said.

He said the body of the Thai cook had already been received by his family for religious rites at another temple.

-- TNA 2009-03-14

[markg]

I don`t belive 2-3 freak-waves turned the boat to the side. Where they should came from ?, from the shore ?

Corky, Have you ever spent any time at sea? I doubt it or you would know that when mother nature decides to change her moods, she can do so quickly. In minutes a perfectly flat ocean can become questionable sailing conditions at best. I have seen this.

I think the point is that as storms go, this one was reasonably unremarkable. 20 or even 30 odd knots of wind is fairly run of the mill. We get this in the English channel on a daily basis.

Squalls with 20 odd knots of wind are not really that uncommon here in Phuket either. I could understand if the boat went down in a 'hundred year storm' or some sort of other remarkable or unusual weather condition, but to get knocked down in a fairly tame squall, in an area which is renowned for squalls, is just not on.

This boat has been designed for this specific area. It goes out into the open ocean going to the Similans. It really should be able to take more weather than this.

Surely there is SOME sort of legislation regarding the design of boats?

[corky]

don`t belive 2-3 freak-waves turned the boat to the side. Where they should came from ?, from the shore ?

Corky, Have you ever spent any time at sea? I doubt it or you would know that when mother nature decides to change her moods, she can do so quickly. In minutes a perfectly flat ocean can become questionable sailing conditions at best. I have seen this.

22 years allready visiting Phuket and since 13 Years ( every year!) for 2 month

I go around Phuket / Krabi on 2 different motor-boats on my own nearly every day!, so I know what you are talking about.

I faced many thunderstorms and I`ve allways been happy, if I could managed to get shelter behind some island, but what I don`t understand, why the captain of the boat don`t changed the course and tourned the nose in the wind to north/east first to get closer to shore , then heading to south again when the Squalls are gone ??

little longer way, but more safe !!!

--stop--

Edited March 14, 2009 by corky

[corky]

Edited March 14, 2009 by corky

[thaiwanderer]

On the second point I can assure you that the majority of people learning to dive here and some experienced dive tourists have no concept of personal safety and what it entails. They rely on operators to take care of them and training agencies condone and encourage this for commercial reasons.

The standard of diving courses here on Phuket is high, and certainly comparable to those in Western Europe, and IMO higher than those in the USA or Australia foe example.

Joking, right?

No, speaking from experience.

blind or limited experience

the standard of diver training on phuket is woeful

[Cerberus]

^

I have to agree. Rushed through the courses so that they can start paying for dive drips ASAP.

[JetsetBkk]

Spare a thought for anyone out at sea tonight. Worst weather in months.