Lost The Faith

[Pakeha]

Ok wise ones. I've lost the faith. After years of making dam good money I'm thinking I was wrong. I've always been a bit of a socialist happy to give some of my good fortune to the not so fortunate. But now I've had a guts full! Should I rent the property and settle in los? I have a 10 year old daughter which is my priority of course.

[TAWP]

...and then you get a GF and suddenly you are supporting a village...

[Pakeha]

...and then you get a GF and suddenly you are supporting a village...

I don't mind them. I'm concerned about the lazy bastards I don't know! The village is fine. At least I know them... Not like the bludgers I'm supporting now!!!

[fred2007]

...and then you get a GF and suddenly you are supporting a village...

I don't mind them. I'm concerned about the lazy bastards I don't know! The village is fine. At least I know them... Not like the bludgers I'm supporting now!!!

you got me lost, you don't like to support as you say lazy bastards but you like to support a whole village? who are the lazy bastards then?

[Briggsy]

I'm confused.

Are you saying that you wish to resign from your job and retire to Thailand having had 'a gut full' of paying high income tax in a developed nation?

[najman]

Maybe you dont realize this but what you are doing is actually not good for them. How are they ever going to make their own way in life if they depend on you? How are they going to respect you for giving them something for nothing. And I'm sure you know the money requests dont stop and only get bigger.

It is a dis service to them to not teach them to make their own money. It's the same the world over. Giving money to staving people when instead you could be teaching them to get their own food and water. Sure its sometimes necessary to help someone out in a time of need. But to keep doing it and never letting them get on their own feet is something that will only hurt them AND you in the long run.

What about lending money only for a business with a proper business plan and a pledge to pay it back. At least then you can teach them independance and get some of your money back. Society does not work by giving something for nothing as is becoming more evident with the beginning of the world ecomony collapse.

[robblok]

I'm confused.

Are you saying that you wish to resign from your job and retire to Thailand having had 'a gut full' of paying high income tax in a developed nation?

I think what your saying is what he meant.

I was sick of it too.

[Scott]

If you don't like freeloaders, I would suggest you NOT settle in the LOS.

[Johpa]

Ok wise ones. I've lost the faith. After years of making dam good money I'm thinking I was wrong. I've always been a bit of a socialist happy to give some of my good fortune to the not so fortunate. But now I've had a guts full! Should I rent the property and settle in los? I have a 10 year old daughter which is my priority of course.

Sounds like you are spewing what we call here in the US "Trump" logic. This is the logic a certain Mr. Trump, a man of considerable wealth, who claims that if he can only keep $10 million in net profit out of a $20 million in gross profits that he would rather retire from investing and work and become a greeter at Walmart for minimum wage. This is of course entirely false logic, and Mr. Trump has no intentions of changing his behavior and that he is quite cognizant that is lifestyle will be little changed from the proposed increase in his taxes, although I am sure that he is upset that some of the redistributed money will go to people of color, the number one reason white people hate welfare. But it is a bit silly for people further down the ladder to jump on Trump's bandwagon. Sort of like having to listen to some taxi driver bemoaning the estate tax. Hey look, if you have made enough money to retire than go for it. I would if I could, but don't do it for Trump's false logic.

[MJo]

If the taxes are the problem there is a solution. Overseas expat job paying the same or more likely bit more and tax free with accommodation allowance etc etc. Plenty left for the villagers.

[wasabi]

Losing the faith as a young starving artist and doing something great before you become part of the machine is noble. Losing the faith after a lifetime of work and taking advantage of all your country had to offer you and having spent a lifetime at what you now claim to disdain is just not as cool. You don't need to act like you've had some epiphany, if you have enough to retire and want to do so go ahead.

[Pakeha]

I'm confused.

Are you saying that you wish to resign from your job and retire to Thailand having had 'a gut full' of paying high income tax in a developed nation?

Yes. You've hit the nail on the head. But I'm not ready to retire so I'd need to keep working... Somewhere?

[Pakeha]

Maybe you dont realize this but what you are doing is actually not good for them. How are they ever going to make their own way in life if they depend on you? How are they going to respect you for giving them something for nothing. And I'm sure you know the money requests dont stop and only get bigger.

It is a dis service to them to not teach them to make their own money. It's the same the world over. Giving money to staving people when instead you could be teaching them to get their own food and water. Sure its sometimes necessary to help someone out in a time of need. But to keep doing it and never letting them get on their own feet is something that will only hurt them AND you in the long run.

What about lending money only for a business with a proper business plan and a pledge to pay it back. At least then you can teach them independance and get some of your money back. Society does not work by giving something for nothing as is becoming more evident with the beginning of the world ecomony collapse.

Would you please explain this to my government.

[Pakeha]

If the taxes are the problem there is a solution. Overseas expat job paying the same or more likely bit more and tax free with accommodation allowance etc etc. Plenty left for the villagers.

Any offers?

[Pakeha]

Losing the faith as a young starving artist and doing something great before you become part of the machine is noble. Losing the faith after a lifetime of work and taking advantage of all your country had to offer you and having spent a lifetime at what you now claim to disdain is just not as cool. You don't need to act like you've had some epiphany, if you have enough to retire and want to do so go ahead.

You make too many assumptions wasabi. It's the lazy young starving artists I'm sick of supporting. And I have a lifetime ahead of me not behind me. Not sure if I'm happy with paying for 'all my country has to offer' so that lazy people can take advantage of it.

And it's not an epiphany for chrisakes... I'm keen to hear from others as to their experiences to help me make a decision... If that's alright with you?

[OriginalPoster]

Losing the faith as a young starving artist and doing something great before you become part of the machine is noble. Losing the faith after a lifetime of work and taking advantage of all your country had to offer you and having spent a lifetime at what you now claim to disdain is just not as cool. You don't need to act like you've had some epiphany, if you have enough to retire and want to do so go ahead.

That's impressively absurd. Sure, there's nothing more noble than rebelling against your parents.

Edited March 11, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[kiakaha]

Ok wise ones. I've lost the faith. After years of making dam good money I'm thinking I was wrong. I've always been a bit of a socialist happy to give some of my good fortune to the not so fortunate. But now I've had a guts full! Should I rent the property and settle in los? I have a 10 year old daughter which is my priority of course.

My wife and I(both kiwis) moved from NZL to LOS ~ 14 years ago for work , rented out our house in NZL at the time etc....

should you too ?...rent market is down , your NZD income isn't as strong on the FX ...will you have Baht income or any other non NZD income ?

subject to what income your have, where you choose to live etc... , your 10 year old daughter has ample schooling opportunitys in Thailand.

[kiakaha]

If the taxes are the problem there is a solution. Overseas expat job paying the same or more likely bit more and tax free with accommodation allowance etc etc. Plenty left for the villagers.

Tax free...really....talking from experience ?

sorry to knock you off your barstool, but.....

If you work in thailand it is a felony not to pay tax. I've been in an "expat" position for more than a decade...you have to pay PIT(personal income tax) to the revenue department. You also need your tax return records for your 1 yearly permit of stay extension.

Salary splitting is sometimes done.But, tax is still paid on the thai amount of the salary.

[flying]

I think many will follow you this year.

Maybe not to TL but I think many in developed?? countries have had enough of it.

The financial folly that is sure to be followed by hard times & higher taxes have many pulling up stakes while they still can.

[GuestHouse]

One presumes the OP's ten year old daughter benefits from a state education while he and she enjoy the security of knowing they can rely on health care, social services, welfare, police, fire and ambulance services and all the other benefits that he grumbles over paying for.

Worst comes to worst and the OP winds up unable to support himself and his daugther in Thailand and he gets back on the plane, goes home and puts his hand out...... Yeh I get it...... He's lost the faith.

[PhilHarries]

If the taxes are the problem there is a solution. Overseas expat job paying the same or more likely bit more and tax free with accommodation allowance etc etc. Plenty left for the villagers.

Tax free...really....talking from experience ?

sorry to knock you off your barstool, but.....

If you work in thailand it is a felony not to pay tax. I've been in an "expat" position for more than a decade...you have to pay PIT(personal income tax) to the revenue department. You also need your tax return records for your 1 yearly permit of stay extension.

Salary splitting is sometimes done.But, tax is still paid on the thai amount of the salary.

Quite right there. I have been working under such schemes for many years now, they are not tax free but tax "protected" i.e. you pay tax in the country you work in but only on a proportion of your pay.

To the OP, I appreciate your sentiments entirely. Welfare systems the world over are being abused by those too idle to work because the incentive to work has gone. Not only that but, to a large extent, the work ethic has gone. Young people are leaving school with few qualifications, no prospects of a job (or one that pays above the minimum wage) thus they'd rather sit and do fek all for a miserly state hand out than get off their ar5es for an equally miserly pay packet. They do this with no sense of shame that they are sponging off their fellow citizens.

What is the answer? Well maybe raising that minimum wage would reinstate the desire to get off state hand outs and get back to work. Of course that would mean the rest of us paying more for goods and services but surely that is better than paying taxes to keep people idle?

But that doesn't answer your immediate question. There comes a time in all our lives when we have to make the tough decision, your time has come and only you can provide the answer because only you have all the facts.

[OriginalPoster]

To the OP, I appreciate your sentiments entirely. Welfare systems the world over are being abused by those too idle to work because the incentive to work has gone. Not only that but, to a large extent, the work ethic has gone. Young people are leaving school with few qualifications, no prospects of a job (or one that pays above the minimum wage) thus they'd rather sit and do fek all for a miserly state hand out than get off their ar5es for an equally miserly pay packet. They do this with no sense of shame that they are sponging off their fellow citizens.

Can you really do that in NZ? Hypothetically, let's suppose I'm from NZ, drop out of college, am 22 ys old, able bodied, and wanted to do nothing except sit around and complain about the injustice of society and the conformity of my elders. How much money will the State pay me to do that?

Edited March 11, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[PattayaParent]

If the taxes are the problem there is a solution. Overseas expat job paying the same or more likely bit more and tax free with accommodation allowance etc etc. Plenty left for the villagers.

Tax free...really....talking from experience ?

sorry to knock you off your barstool, but.....

If you work in thailand it is a felony not to pay tax. I've been in an "expat" position for more than a decade...you have to pay PIT(personal income tax) to the revenue department. You also need your tax return records for your 1 yearly permit of stay extension.

Salary splitting is sometimes done.But, tax is still paid on the thai amount of the salary.

Quite right there. I have been working under such schemes for many years now, they are not tax free but tax "protected" i.e. you pay tax in the country you work in but only on a proportion of your pay.

You 2 guys have been working for the wrong companies.

I get a tax free salary here in LOS and my company takes care of the tax.

Same same as when I worked for them in Korea where income tax is payable on salary.

Same same when I worked in Viet Nam, and Indonesia, and LOS 2 times before.

i.e. the salary negotiated is what I get in the bank, what the company has to pay in tax I don't care about.

Edited March 11, 2009 by PattayaParent

[PhilHarries]

If the taxes are the problem there is a solution. Overseas expat job paying the same or more likely bit more and tax free with accommodation allowance etc etc. Plenty left for the villagers.

Tax free...really....talking from experience ?

sorry to knock you off your barstool, but.....

If you work in thailand it is a felony not to pay tax. I've been in an "expat" position for more than a decade...you have to pay PIT(personal income tax) to the revenue department. You also need your tax return records for your 1 yearly permit of stay extension.

Salary splitting is sometimes done.But, tax is still paid on the thai amount of the salary.

Quite right there. I have been working under such schemes for many years now, they are not tax free but tax "protected" i.e. you pay tax in the country you work in but only on a proportion of your pay.

You 2 guys have been working for the wrong companies.

I get a tax free salary here in LOS and my company takes care of the tax.

Same same as when I worked for them in Korea where income tax is payable on salary.

Same same when I worked in Viet Nam, and Indonesia, and LOS 2 times before.

i.e. the salary negotiated is what I get in the bank, what the company has to pay in tax I don't care about.

That is exactly he same as I am working on now, Korea, and before in Malaysia and Viet Nam. It is not tax free although it might pander to your ego to think so. The amount the company pays is essentially off your pay rate although we all ignore it as our negotiated rate is what we get. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it don't exist.

[TexasRanger]

I don't know how people get themselves into this whole supporting the village thing. No one asks me for anything here, a good job really because it's not my business to support them. I do other things to help e.g at tthe moment I have employed a cousin to build my perimeter wall, I have a reputation for getting what I pay for so they know they get no favours for being family and they are doing a very very good job, I do buy them drinks after work sometimes and last week i gave them all the day off and we all went fishing and swimming at the river. We had a new temple dedication ceremony yesterday and I helped out with a lot of lifting and shifting and I regularly ferry the local head monk around from temple to temple but I won't be taken advantage of.

I think it's all about setting a precedent, be generous but never be taken for granted.

Having said all that I guess if an old man in the village needed some pills or something and didn't have the money I might be inclined to help although there aren't that many desperately poor people here.

[kiakaha]

If the taxes are the problem there is a solution. Overseas expat job paying the same or more likely bit more and tax free with accommodation allowance etc etc. Plenty left for the villagers.

Tax free...really....talking from experience ?

sorry to knock you off your barstool, but.....

If you work in thailand it is a felony not to pay tax. I've been in an "expat" position for more than a decade...you have to pay PIT(personal income tax) to the revenue department. You also need your tax return records for your 1 yearly permit of stay extension.

Salary splitting is sometimes done.But, tax is still paid on the thai amount of the salary.

Quite right there. I have been working under such schemes for many years now, they are not tax free but tax "protected" i.e. you pay tax in the country you work in but only on a proportion of your pay.

You 2 guys have been working for the wrong companies.

I get a tax free salary here in LOS and my company takes care of the tax.

Same same as when I worked for them in Korea where income tax is payable on salary.

Same same when I worked in Viet Nam, and Indonesia, and LOS 2 times before.

i.e. the salary negotiated is what I get in the bank, what the company has to pay in tax I don't care about.

you are just mincing words really.

to be accurate , you get a net amount after tax is paid to the revenue department. there is still a gross amount before tax (check your tax records that you use for your permit extensions)

you've just talked yourself into thinking of your net pay as "tax free on the gross that I expect"...hey, whatever gets you through the day

my net amount after tax is very nice also, more than any gross amount i could earn in the west. so no, I am not working for the wrong company.

[PattayaParent]

To be accurate I get excatly the salary I ask for tax free.

If the company said I have to pay tax on what I ask for I wouldn't be working for them, what they do about tax is their problem, NI also is not deducted from my salary.

[OriginalPoster]

To be accurate I get excatly the salary I ask for tax free.

If the company said I have to pay tax on what I ask for I wouldn't be working for them, what they do about tax is their problem, NI also is not deducted from my salary.

And if you had asked them to quote your salary offer as a gross salary instead of as a net salary, they would have offered a higher dollar amount. Same Same.

Edited March 11, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[ballpoint]

To be accurate I get excatly the salary I ask for tax free.

If the company said I have to pay tax on what I ask for I wouldn't be working for them, what they do about tax is their problem, NI also is not deducted from my salary.

And if you had asked them to quote your salary offer as a gross salary instead of as a net salary, they would have offered a higher dollar amount. Same Same.

Yes, but if I was quoted a salary for say Australia of $100,000, I know I'd be paying around $40,000, or whatever the rate there is now, in tax, leaving me with $60,000. If I'm quoted a salary of $100,000 for an expat position, I can be reasonably confident that I'd get the whole lot, plus goods and services, housing, schooling, car and driver etc. You'd need to be quoted a salary of over $200,000 in Australia to be making what you'd earn in Thailand on a $100,000 one.

[bonobo]

Maybe you dont realize this but what you are doing is actually not good for them. How are they ever going to make their own way in life if they depend on you? How are they going to respect you for giving them something for nothing. And I'm sure you know the money requests dont stop and only get bigger.

It is a dis service to them to not teach them to make their own money. It's the same the world over. Giving money to staving people when instead you could be teaching them to get their own food and water. Sure its sometimes necessary to help someone out in a time of need. But to keep doing it and never letting them get on their own feet is something that will only hurt them AND you in the long run.

What about lending money only for a business with a proper business plan and a pledge to pay it back. At least then you can teach them independance and get some of your money back. Society does not work by giving something for nothing as is becoming more evident with the beginning of the world ecomony collapse.

I have never understood this line of thinking.  If a person is willing to shoulder the financial burden, then the benficiaries are not going to have to make their own way.  Teaching someone to do that is fine, and I have spent part of my career doing just that.  But I want to marry someone, pay for her living, have a child, pay for all those expenses, support her extended family, and provide for them after I am gone, well, who is to say that that is wrong?  Why are we so obssessed with peopel working as hard as some of us do?

And how does that hurt them?  If I meet a destitute man in the streets, someone down on his luck, and I choose to give him something, then what is the result?  He gets a small reprieve from his situation, gets a nice meal or two. When that donation runs out, well, he is exactly in the same situation he was in before, but now with a full stomach.  Oh, I agree that it is better to help someone learn how to pull his or herself up, and I donate to organizations which do this. 

I give my mother money on which to live.  She does not work now nor has she ever worked.  She is dependant upon my sister, my brother and me to live.  So are we "harming" her? Should we be teaching her how to survive on her own?

If someone is willing to shoulder the financial burden for someone else, then so be it.  I don't think it is up to anyone else to say whether we are harming someone or not by doing that. Not everyone needs to live in a western-centric industrial work ethic kind of life.