Banks To Protect Atms Against Skimming Scams

[george]

Banks to protect ATMs against skimming scams

BANGKOK: -- A special device to prevent the theft of information embedded in ATM cards is being installed in more than 30,000 ATM machines nationwide, Phol Thanachote, chairman of the Automated Teller Machines' businesses community, said Tuesday.

The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals in areas near ATM machines, to prevent stolen information from being relayed wirelessly, he said. Stickers will help ATM users determine which machine has been protected.

Skimming techniques have been in use for the past few years, though it has become more difficult to come up with protective measures due to fastdeveloping technology. However, he said, educated users should be able to protect themselves because they know about the tricks being used by scammers.

-- The Nation 2009-03-10

[riadoc]

I wonder if that is how after a trip to BKK last August where I used several ATMs on Sukhumvit Road and at MBK, my ATM card went on a trip to China and whooped it up at a "drinking and dancing" establishment, where the transaction was posted as "card present" at the same time I was in the grocery store in Denver, CO? My card had a grand time to the tune of nearly USD $5000!

It took three months to investigate the fraud and recover the amount charged back to my account.

What are those tricks? How strange that an article would say that and not elaborate on those tricks. Am I supposed to be a member of a secret club with a special logo jacket to "know about" the tricks?

[neverdie]

Strangely enough, the device that Bangkok Bank is fitting to their ATM's resembles a skimming device itself. Recently I attended my local ATM and saw this new devise fitted to the ATM & called the bank to report it & was told as above in the report.

You can never be too careful when it comes to these electronic crimes.

[huski]

The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals

good, i always seem to get behind the clueless girl on the phone that takes 10 minutes at the ATM

[RickFarang]

Gentlemen,

At this point, we should recognize that keeping large sums of money in an account that is accessible by an ATM card is very risky.

Keep the balance low and transfer in funds as needed.

Edited March 10, 2009 by RickFarang

[wrecker]

How incompetent could banks become? Jamming devices?? That would become a bloodbath in Bangkok and other areas with lots of offices and atm's . Nobody would be able anymore to sent wireless data. The banks should simply go for better and thus more expensive atm's that are really protected. In Western europe skimming was a real problem, done by skilled people from Eastern European countries. In South East Asia it is a Malay sport, I bet that you cannot count the number of people who have their creditcard cancelled after paying with it in Malaysia. The proposed solution is again laughable, just like the comment that people can protect themselves. Do we need to inspect the ATM? Do we need to be on the look out for tiny camera's recording our pincode? Come on...

[Thanh-BKK]

How incompetent could banks become? Jamming devices?? That would become a bloodbath in Bangkok and other areas with lots of offices and atm's . Nobody would be able anymore to sent wireless data. The banks should simply go for better and thus more expensive atm's that are really protected. In Western europe skimming was a real problem, done by skilled people from Eastern European countries. In South East Asia it is a Malay sport, I bet that you cannot count the number of people who have their creditcard cancelled after paying with it in Malaysia. The proposed solution is again laughable, just like the comment that people can protect themselves. Do we need to inspect the ATM? Do we need to be on the look out for tiny camera's recording our pincode? Come on...

Hi

I have seen something on television about this, it is a copied idea from japan where it seems to be standard that ATM's are equipped with cell phone jammers. I also think it's the wrong thing to do - talk about shopping malls or even 7-Eleven's with attached ATM, people inside will quickly complain when their calls get cut off once they get close to an ATM.

I believe the easiest thing to do is what K-Bank ATM's do (a good many of them at least), they pull the card in veeeeeery slowly and "stuttering" (and also release it in the same way), with the actual reader being deeper inside the machine - this way a skimmer would not be able to read the magnetic strip efficiently.

An even better system would be like a CD-ROM drive - tray opens, put the card inside it, tray closes and the reading happens completely inside the machine. Impossible to get a skimmer attached to such machine, however it would require extensive modification to the ATM.

Kind regards.....

Thanh

[fiddlehead]

Gentlemen,

At this point, we should recognize that keeping large sums of money in an account that is accessible by an ATM card is very risky.

Keep the balance low and transfer in funds as needed.

I agree. That's what i do. Never more than 100,000 baht at a time goes in there.

I had a card copied from use in Big C 2 or 3 years ago. (it was the only place i had used my credit card)

When i went back and told them and explained how they could find the culprit with my help, the manager there just shrugged his shoulders and walked away. I guess he just figured it was another farang with money to lose. Needless to say, i don't use my credit card in Thailand anymore.

But as far as Kasikorn bank goes, i have 3 accounts there now: One for ATM (with small balance) , one that draws interest, now at only 1.5% i believe in a fixed account, and now i have one that is in US funds. (expecting the baht to devalue a bit against the dollar)

Glad to see they are going to make an effort to foil these crooks but it'll be something new tomorrow. Just minimize your losses.

[wormdrive]

I have to call BS on this one as being little more than a complete PR stunt. The U.S. has been trying to counter skimmers for nearly a decade now - the financial institutions lose billions a year due to fraud/skimming.

Don't you think they would have developed a method to prevent it if there were one? "Devices" attached to machines to prevent skimming is an attempt to restore some false confidence to the financial consumers and nothing more - almost the same way a car alarm does for it's owner. If a person wants your information, believe me.... they will get it.

Technology and sophistication within the skimming community is dynamic. It is constantly adapting to whatever changes are being made. Thailand and SEA, are a hub for this type of activity. Most of the ATM skimming devices (not inhand physical skimming. ie at restaurants) are fabricated in SEA or Russia.

The best way to protect yourself is do not use a debit card at an ATM. Using a credit card offers you some degree of fraud protection, but using a debit card you are generally going to have a VERY difficult time getting any lost money back.

If you have no choice other than to use a debit card:

Have 2 accounts, and establish access to them via online. You can set up automatic transfers between the two. Keep one account as your bi-weekly cash account. Your first account is used for the direct deposit of your salary. Then set up an online transfer from that account to your 2nd account, which is your daily expense account. Just transfer enough in the account for your expenses for a 2 week period, or the duration that you choose.

Use the debit card of the 2nd account at ATM's etc, never from the 1st.

[vahack]

I believe the easiest thing to do is what K-Bank ATM's do (a good many of them at least), they pull the card in veeeeeery slowly and "stuttering" (and also release it in the same way), with the actual reader being deeper inside the machine - this way a skimmer would not be able to read the magnetic strip efficiently.

thats interesting. i thought they just had crappy equipment lol

[VoIP]

I have to call BS on this one as being little more than a complete PR stunt. The U.S. has been trying to counter skimmers for nearly a decade now - the financial institutions lose billions a year due to fraud/skimming.

Don't you think they would have developed a method to prevent it if there were one? "Devices" attached to machines to prevent skimming is an attempt to restore some false confidence to the financial consumers and nothing more - almost the same way a car alarm does for it's owner. If a person wants your information, believe me.... they will get it.

Technology and sophistication within the skimming community is dynamic. It is constantly adapting to whatever changes are being made.

Couldn't agree more. The 'jamming device' idea would be another extremely short sighted solution causing frustration to you and me but not to the skimmers, who would just overcome the jamming by sending out a stronger signal (a few watts instead of mwatts).

[sprq]

I've no idea what skimming is and still have no idea after reading all of this thread.

Can somebody please enlighten those of us with no idea or give a link to some explanation?

[buddyholly1]

I also think it's the wrong thing to do - talk about shopping malls or even 7-Eleven's with attached ATM, people inside will quickly complain when their calls get cut off once they get close to an ATM.

Any mall or 7/11 that did that would get my business. Being forced to listen to the moronic chit-chat of idiots with cell phones attached to their ears in public places is one of the biggest drawbacks of modern technology.

Like smoking, cell phone use should be banned where it is a public health threat.

[neverdie]

Why don't they start using eyescan or fingerprint technology, theres many options.

As for many credit cards now theres a digital photo on the card, I understand that doesnt help with internet fraud etc.....maybe people that want to use their credit cards online could go thru an eyescan or something similar.

You think with all the millions in fraud going out the door that things would progress a little quicker in the security dept.

[bkk_mike]

Skimming is only a problem because there are still countries that are backward enough to still use the magnetic strip (Thailand, and the US, amongst them).

Chip and Pin isn't perfect (a lot more chances for people to see your PIN for a start), but skimming the chip is a lot harder than skimming a magnetic strip. The downside is switching to chip and pin is expensive.

Personally, I cover my hand when entering the PIN (even with nobody around), and tend to use the same ATMs all the time so that I'd notice if something was different.

As for online - have you tried using a card online recently. You now have to enter minimum 8 character passwords with memory defying rules about capital letters and numbers, so much so that I can't use some cards online myself...

[Khun Bob]

Anyone got advice on how to spot or test for a skimming device ?

Is it possible to get an ATM card that can be used before your main card, to test for the presence of an illegal device ?

I guess soem good advice is to use an ATM that is inside a bank - I know this isnt always convenient, but it may reduce the risk.

Also, anyone got photos of the device proposed in this article and how to know if it is genuine - if it is visible that is...

[worthingmike]

Banks to protect ATMs against skimming scams

BANGKOK: -- A special device to prevent the theft of information embedded in ATM cards is being installed in more than 30,000 ATM machines nationwide, Phol Thanachote, chairman of the Automated Teller Machines' businesses community, said Tuesday.

The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals in areas near ATM machines, to prevent stolen information from being relayed wirelessly, he said. Stickers will help ATM users determine which machine has been protected.

Skimming techniques have been in use for the past few years, though it has become more difficult to come up with protective measures due to fastdeveloping technology. However, he said, educated users should be able to protect themselves because they know about the tricks being used by scammers.

-- The Nation 2009-03-10

[mamanoodle]

This sounds like thai logic trying to instill a false sense of security to farang atm card users, now very safe to use your card here etc. etc(haha). I personally have not used atm machines here in pattaya if the card slot to insert bankcard looked odd or not to be right in any way, if there was any card or leaflet containers right above the keypad I would rip them off and throw away, and never use a machine outside a minimart or other business where there are any thais or others lurking about nearby, also never use a machine in very quiet or secluded areas( you never know who is lurking in the background)

[Moonrakers]

When back in the UK I worked for Nationwide, for the Non-Brits they are a very large financial organisation that is similar to a bank.

Anyway, I was once invited to Head Office for a presentation on the latest ATM security device. This gadget meant that one's ATM card would only work after a successful retina scan from some laser gadget inside the machine.

It was trialled in one country, unfortunately as a result there are a few more one eyed Brazilians out there as a result of the trial.

Whoops.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Moonrakers

[cognos]

Why don't they start using eyescan or fingerprint technology, theres many options.

As for many credit cards now theres a digital photo on the card, I understand that doesnt help with internet fraud etc.....maybe people that want to use their credit cards online could go thru an eyescan or something similar.

You think with all the millions in fraud going out the door that things would progress a little quicker in the security dept.

Maybe you should buy a lotto ticket today;you have 4 deuces..

[Mali1964]

Gentlemen,

At this point, we should recognize that keeping large sums of money in an account that is accessible by an ATM card is very risky.

Keep the balance low and transfer in funds as needed.

& should we all cancel our overdrafts too.

[Chaimai]

I've no idea what skimming is and still have no idea after reading all of this thread.

Can somebody please enlighten those of us with no idea or give a link to some explanation?

Try these:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_fraud

[tropo]

Gentlemen,

At this point, we should recognize that keeping large sums of money in an account that is accessible by an ATM card is very risky.

Keep the balance low and transfer in funds as needed.

I disagree. The risk may be present, but it is very low.

[tropo]

Anyone got advice on how to spot or test for a skimming device ?

Is it possible to get an ATM card that can be used before your main card, to test for the presence of an illegal device ?

I guess soem good advice is to use an ATM that is inside a bank - I know this isnt always convenient, but it may reduce the risk.

Also, anyone got photos of the device proposed in this article and how to know if it is genuine - if it is visible that is...

Here's some photos of an ATM skimming device. This is the bad guy - an attached card reader and key pad. It'll clone your card via the stuck on scanner and get your pin number via the stuck on key pad.

[BAZZAT]

Know what you mean these cards are very lucky these days last year mine went on a round the world trip the bank finally after 6 months Bank decided to pick up the tab but had a hel_l of a job convincing them it was not me untill a certain transation one day was buying something in Samui Thailand and Brisban Austrailia at the same time or with in hour of each other, the penny finally dropped with the bank and they thought something is not right here have they put a world wide stop on the old card nope!!! it still goes on.what tickles me is how something so simple like cancelling a credit card is so difficult to do.

I wonder if that is how after a trip to BKK last August where I used several ATMs on Sukhumvit Road and at MBK, my ATM card went on a trip to China and whooped it up at a "drinking and dancing" establishment, where the transaction was posted as "card present" at the same time I was in the grocery store in Denver, CO? My card had a grand time to the tune of nearly USD $5000!

It took three months to investigate the fraud and recover the amount charged back to my account.

What are those tricks? How strange that an article would say that and not elaborate on those tricks. Am I supposed to be a member of a secret club with a special logo jacket to "know about" the tricks?

[BAZZAT]

I totaly agree let me look after it for you!!!!

Gentlemen,

At this point, we should recognize that keeping large sums of money in an account that is accessible by an ATM card is very risky.

Keep the balance low and transfer in funds as needed.

I disagree. The risk may be present, but it is very low.

[puyaidon]

I don't know if it was a skimmer but I used a credit card at a hospital that caters mainly to farangs and found a charge for a hotel room in Mumbai, India. Took me three months to get that straight as it was a US based credit card. Another incident at a service station with a Thai credit card and then a charge of 45,000 baht at a major discount store on Rama 2. Not only the skimmers but people also. Beware.

[BAZZAT]

Theres only one place to use your card inside the bank or directly outside less chance of being tampered with but not 100% as you say mini marts or the exchange booths my golden rule is do not use any machine under the influence of falling down liquid seen some stupid people do some stupid things over the years.

This sounds like thai logic trying to instill a false sense of security to farang atm card users, now very safe to use your card here etc. etc(haha). I personally have not used atm machines here in pattaya if the card slot to insert bankcard looked odd or not to be right in any way, if there was any card or leaflet containers right above the keypad I would rip them off and throw away, and never use a machine outside a minimart or other business where there are any thais or others lurking about nearby, also never use a machine in very quiet or secluded areas( you never know who is lurking in the background)

[tartempion]

In France all debit and credit cards have a chip with pin code, better replace all the ATM's in Thailand, that will not happen soon, technology takes long time to get to a third world country

[Doctordon2000]

How incompetent could banks become? Jamming devices?? That would become a bloodbath in Bangkok and other areas with lots of offices and atm's . Nobody would be able anymore to sent wireless data. The banks should simply go for better and thus more expensive atm's that are really protected. In Western europe skimming was a real problem, done by skilled people from Eastern European countries. In South East Asia it is a Malay sport, I bet that you cannot count the number of people who have their creditcard cancelled after paying with it in Malaysia. The proposed solution is again laughable, just like the comment that people can protect themselves. Do we need to inspect the ATM? Do we need to be on the look out for tiny camera's recording our pincode? Come on...

Hi

I have seen something on television about this, it is a copied idea from japan where it seems to be standard that ATM's are equipped with cell phone jammers. I also think it's the wrong thing to do - talk about shopping malls or even 7-Eleven's with attached ATM, people inside will quickly complain when their calls get cut off once they get close to an ATM.

I believe the easiest thing to do is what K-Bank ATM's do (a good many of them at least), they pull the card in veeeeeery slowly and "stuttering" (and also release it in the same way), with the actual reader being deeper inside the machine - this way a skimmer would not be able to read the magnetic strip efficiently.

An even better system would be like a CD-ROM drive - tray opens, put the card inside it, tray closes and the reading happens completely inside the machine. Impossible to get a skimmer attached to such machine, however it would require extensive modification to the ATM.

Kind regards.....

Thanh

That idea of a CD-Rom type drive........is excellent!! It is totally secure for the card to be read...............there is no way the scammers can attach a skimming device.......and following the transaction, the card is delivered safely back to you. If the card is fraudulent..........then it can be confiscated by the machine. It's a great idea.........really! Question is...........who is skilled enough to convince banks................. to actually spend money..................... to safeguard their customers money?