Which Way Is Easier? Thailand Or The Netherlands?

[Bunnysgal]

Hello

I'm thai gal living in Thailand now, and are making pretty big decision with my bf. He's in the Netherlands, 25 yrs old. We want to get married and are making up our mind to choose whether he should come live here or me should go live there.

So, I need some advices. You think which choice can be done easier considering chances to get job & paper work to get visa and all that?

The situation is that my Bf got a colledge diploma in multimedia design & some work experience in that field & Customer relation field. I think he can provide some saving money (around 400K-800K) and transfer it to thai bank and use as proof to request non-immi visa to support me. But the problem is if he comes live here, will he be able to get a job with workpermit in like a year? while that visa still valid ...

And me .. if we choose that I go live in the Netherlands, will that be possible? It can be done? The job he gets there pay around 1300sth Euros/mth. (which is around the minimum requirement of income needed to be able to bring someone to live with you in the Netherlands) + he has 1yr contract. Will I be able to request for a WVV and resident permit to stay there as his spouse? Will it be hard to be granted if my bf doesn't have high salary and still live at his parent's house .. and can only afford to rent an apartment?

Thanks for all advices in advance

[udon]

Hi Bunnysgal,

have you been to Europe?

The weather in Winter can be bad news for someone from a Thai climate.

Do you think you could cope with many cold and grey miserable days.

Saying that, the Dutch are good people and very friendly.

If possible, the best would be if yr BF could get work in

LoS.

Sorry, I can't be more helpful.

[Bunnysgal]

Thank you Udon

Hmmm that's the part we're worrying bout ... Getting job here.

Cose he seems to be able to make good progress in his career there in The Netherlands too.

And hey that you said, the best would be he get a job here. You meant I might not be able to live there cose they won't give me visa ... or cose of climate? hehe Cose if cose of climate or other things I think i can handle

We just want to be together

[Darknight]

Thank you Udon 

Hmmm that's the part we're worrying bout ... Getting job here.

Cose he seems to be able to make good progress in his career there in The Netherlands too.

And hey that you said, the best would be he get a job here. You meant I might not be able to live there cose they won't give me visa ... or cose of climate? hehe Cose if cose of climate or other things I think i can handle 

We just want to be together

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi bunnysgal. I just returned from living a year in thailand with my wife and i'm back in belgium now. It sounds like your boyfriend is still young and at the beginning of his career?

If so it will be nearly impossible for him to find a WP job in a thai company for the simpel reason that the labour department will state that he doesn't have enough experience to teach a thai his knowledge. i worked in a company where they wanted to hire a 22 year old civil engineer (very good degree) and they still refused based on age. So unless he wants to become an underpaid basic english teacher or something i doubt he will find legal work (he's not an english native speaker so ). I also would not reccomend for somebody at the start of your carreer to move to thailand cause basically he will ruin it from the start , if he ever would want to return to holland especially in the It field he would be seriously behind, and nobody takes experience in thailand as a reference here

Regarding you moving to holland, you can probably just first do it on a tourist visa, just to see if you like living toghether. You didn't tell me his salary is the Gross or Netto amount ? if it's gross then it will be very hard to support someone on that.

Actually the only easy option is to marry each other , but i realise that is a verry large and personal decision. You would then be able to stay in holland and have a dutch pasport after 3 or 5 years. He would be able to stay in thailand on a Non immigrant O visa for up to a year (4 border runs) after which he needs to renew outside thailand.

The climate is not to bad according to my wife , she is used to putting big coats on at this time of year now

[Bunnysgal]

Hey Thank you Darknight :-)

So basically, you would recommend the choice of me going to live in the Netherlands? :-) For me & my bf, we want to get married either here or there. So that's no problem. We've been apart for few yrs now. And we think it's time to finally be together. I have no problem with living there if they allow me. And oh... my bf's salary that i said 1300 euros ...is Netto :-)

You think I stand any chance in getting permit to go there on WVV (longer than 3 months visa) and get married there and live with him?

Cose like you said, he's still young and even if he could get teaching Eng job here, I think there's very very lil chance he can get 40k a month to be able to stay on non-imm visa based on supporting me. ... SO now I'm kind of aiming to go stay there if possible.

Thank you very much :-)

[ZOVOX]

Hey Thank you Darknight :-)

So basically, you would recommend the choice of me going to live in the Netherlands? :-) For me & my bf, we want to get married either here or there. So that's no problem. We've been apart for few yrs now. And we think it's time to  finally be together. I have no problem with living there if they allow me. And oh... my bf's salary that i said 1300 euros ...is Netto :-)

You think I stand any chance in getting permit to go there on WVV (longer than 3 months visa) and get married there and live with him?

Cose like you said, he's still young and even if he could get teaching Eng job here, I think there's very very lil chance he can get 40k a month to be able to stay on non-imm visa based on supporting me. ... SO now I'm kind of aiming to go stay there if possible.

Thank you very much :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with everything Darknight has said, but equally, it's hard for the woman to adapt to a western life. I know many asian girls who go to the west and they have no friends and family, and end up very lonely and isolated. It puts a lot of strain on the relationship. The truth is it will be hard either way, and it basically depends on the two of you. Personally, i would move to Thailand to be with my partner, but that's just me - your case may be different. Good luck !

[Bunnysgal]

Thank you ZOVOX :-)

To be honest, both of us don't really have problem in adapting into either thai or dutch lifestyle i think :-)

My bf would love to move here too. And i would love to move there too.

The thing that we concern isn't really bout lifestyle or climate or cultures or anything like that. But we we're worrying bout now is .. the visa & all that to be able to live in one country legally together.

And that you said "the truth is it will be hard either way" .. you mean the adapting to eachother's lifestyle part, or getting visa part?

Thank you for every advices. I just think if two ppl love eachother, and willing to go live either here or there. That country shouldn't deny

[Richard W]

A wild thought: Would there be any point in moving to another EU country? If you can't satisfy the Dutch immigration rules, you may find that another country's rules as applying to EU nationals (other than its own) impose a lower income threshold. I believe the UK effectively doesn't have an income threshold in such cases, but I have a strange feeling that the UK's interpretation of the immigration rights of non-British EU citizens and their families is more generous than it need be. By the Surinder Singh precedent (EU law, not British law) you could move to the Netherlands after a sufficient period in another EU country.

However, are your employment prospects in the Netherlands relevant to meeting the Dutch immmigration requirements.

I did make some notes about what the relevant laws were (mostly EU directives, plus some notes from UK home office procedures, not all of which are necessarily legally correct) when I was considering Surinder Singh for my stepdaughter. Let me know if you want me to search for these notes for you. There seem to be EU moves afoot to curb these Surinder Singh rights.

I remember a Malay-Spanish couple who ended up settling in England (the Malay husband was a graphic designer, she was, I think, doing a job in England for which she was overqualified) because neither Spain nor Malaysia offered a suitable home. However, he had studied in England, so it's not the same as your case.

Their legal status in the UK always struck me as most bizarre. The Spanish wife could only vote in local elections (I'm not sure about the process for the European Parliament), while the Malaysian husband had full voting rights (because Malaysia is in the Commonwealth). However, he was only allowed to be in the country (and work) because of his Spanish wife. He entered the country on a fiancé visa, but on marriage, instead of getting further leave to remain, which apparently was taking a long time to grant, he rapidly got the necessary stamps allowing him to work (and continue residing) because his wife had a non-British EU nationality.

As a footnote, 'non-British EU citizens' includes Britons with Irish citizenship (at least, on the mainland it does), and exercising Treaty of Rome rights to work outside the UK may confer the privileges of a non-British EU citizen on a Britsh citizen.

[Bunnysgal]

A wild thought: Would there be any point in moving to another EU country? If you can't satisfy the Dutch immigration rules, you may find that another country's rules as applying to EU nationals (other than its own) impose a lower income threshold. I believe the UK effectively doesn't have an income threshold in such cases, but I have a strange feeling that the UK's interpretation of the immigration rights of non-British EU citizens and their families is more generous than it need be. By the Surinder Singh precedent (EU law, not British law) you could move to the Netherlands after a sufficient period in another EU country.

However, are your employment prospects in the Netherlands relevant to meeting the Dutch immmigration requirements.

I did make some notes about what the relevant laws were (mostly EU directives, plus some notes from UK home office procedures, not all of which are necessarily legally correct) when I was considering Surinder Singh for my stepdaughter. Let me know if you want me to search for these notes for you. There seem to be EU moves afoot to curb these Surinder Singh rights.

I remember a Malay-Spanish couple who ended up settling in England (the Malay husband was a graphic designer, she was, I think, doing a job in England for which she was overqualified) because neither Spain nor Malaysia offered a suitable home. However, he had studied in England, so it's not the same as your case.

Their legal status in the UK always struck me as most bizarre. The Spanish wife could only vote in local elections (I'm not sure about the process for the European Parliament), while the Malaysian husband had full voting rights (because Malaysia is in the Commonwealth). However, he was only allowed to be in the country (and work) because of his Spanish wife. He entered the country on a fiancé visa, but on marriage, instead of getting further leave to remain, which apparently was taking a long time to grant, he rapidly got the necessary stamps allowing him to work (and continue residing) because his wife had a non-British EU nationality.

As a footnote, 'non-British EU citizens' includes Britons with Irish citizenship (at least, on the mainland it does), and exercising Treaty of Rome rights to work outside the UK may confer the privileges of a non-British EU citizen on a Britsh citizen.

Thank you Richard W

Yes, I'd love to get more info. bout how I can move to live in the Netherlands. Cose my bf isn't rich or has any business there. He just works like normal office-worker who got paid bout 1300 euros (net)

Appreciated

[2 satang]

Bunny,

Just my contribution here : you are both young and flexible, move to Holland, give it a try.

Want to get married, check all embassy websites first, or even better get a 30-day or even a 90-day visa to visit first.

I even believe Holland has a cohabitation visa in place, so not even need to get married. That is for 6 months, extensions locally.

Problem is your BF's salary, which he will have to present with your visa application...... to support himself and you, a strict min of Euro 1200 per month net is enforced.

Good luck.

just my 2 satang

[Darknight]

Hey Thank you Darknight :-)

So basically, you would recommend the choice of me going to live in the Netherlands? :-) For me & my bf, we want to get married either here or there. So that's no problem. We've been apart for few yrs now. And we think it's time to  finally be together. I have no problem with living there if they allow me. And oh... my bf's salary that i said 1300 euros ...is Netto :-)

You think I stand any chance in getting permit to go there on WVV (longer than 3 months visa) and get married there and live with him?

Cose like you said, he's still young and even if he could get teaching Eng job here, I think there's very very lil chance he can get 40k a month to be able to stay on non-imm visa based on supporting me. ... SO now I'm kind of aiming to go stay there if possible.

Thank you very much :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi bunny,

The weather in holland would be the last thing to worry about , but also understand that if you move to holland you will have to adapt to a new language, culture. It's not that difficult but at a minimum especially to get a regular job later, you will need to learn the language first. You also will need to work cause getting buy on a 1300- euro salery with two persons will only be basic to say the least.

Because you both are so young you are pretty flexible as another user said , but i would reccommend holland more because of better social services like unemployment, healthcare, ect... If your boyfriend goes to thailand now , he will forfit those very early in his career. which will have greater effects later on if you should decide to come back to holland. Better to work on careers , savings ect in europe and return to thailand later in life when you've built up something.

if you want some more info on life in holland send a pm to member Candyflip.

She's thai and has been a student in holland for two years. she can give you all the info from a female perspective

[2 satang]

Bunny,

1 last tip.... check out www.pantip.com its a nice board (in Thai), and lotsa members there live in Belgium, Holland and around......

Ask your questions there as well, 100 % you;ll find Thai girls living close or in the city where your BF lives

My GF is a member there.

just my 2 satang

[Girlfrombar]

hi bunny

i've moved to live with my husband in holland (he's italian tho) for almost a year by now, after in&out for experimental living there for 2 yrs

the decision is based on 'career'

simple says, coz he gains higher salary than me and his life-time work contract

have u ever been to the country b4?

to travel is wonderful, but to 'live' is another thing

anyway,

love can overcome everything (maybe yes maybe not)

about visa,

maybe u should ask for 90days-tourist visa before

what u need:

1. the legalised guarantee letter of your bf (can request from the gementee)

2. the letter of your bf describing about you guys relationship (how long/since when/ etc..)

3. proof of ur bf account statement or income

4. a fotocopy of his passport

once ur bf is to be the 'sponsorship' (it's what they socalled)

the visa requirement is not too difficult to grant (no worry)

there's the group of thai people living in horn-land

and we always keep in touch to share any updates

feel free to email me OK?

and good luck

[Darknight]

horn-land

[alohasiam]

Maybe better to live in Nederlands at least your young husband will not be able to screw around like here in Thailand. If you can learn some Dutch and speak good English and Thai I am sure you can get a job worth over 1500 Euro maybe in some Thai related industries.

[smacko]

two very different countries.

i'd say, go over and visit him, see how you like it.. then start thinking about the future.. theres no reason to rush things.

[hotshot]

Apply for a Schengen visa - and give it a 3 months try! At least you will get some experience

[Bunnysgal]

Hey

Thank you for every advices

I wanna try every way possible too

Wish me luck!! Okie, you guys already did. Thanks

[PD0NVJ]

If you whant to live in Holland,

1 If you get married marrie in Thailand its cheaper and register it with the embasssy

2 let your boyfriend get a house or an apartment otherwhise they will not give you a visa

3 if you go for 3 months and you come back to Thailand you must wait 6 monts before you cab re-apply another visa married or not .

The visa you need is a MVV (machtiging voorlopig verblijf) whit this you can come in the country fore 7 day's.

with this MVV you go to the local police with all the neccesairie paperwork and ask a 1 year visa.

This will be granted if you comply with all the rules (change often so ask the Dutch embassy or the IND [immigratie & naturalisatie dienst] what you and he need).

You have to wait for 3 to 5 months before they will give you the MVV and another couple of months in Holland fore the 1 year visa.

If you are in Holland you must go to school for about 1 year to learn the language and customs, laws etc.

With the 1 year visa you are also allowed to work, but there is not so much work nowadays. Most Thai are working in massage parlours or in Thai restourants, but if you have a degree an can speak the language you might find a "better" job aswell.(don't forget to bring your school papers with a legalised translation).

[2 satang]

If you can learn some Dutch and speak good English and Thai I am sure you can get a job worth over 1500 Euro maybe in some Thai related industries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are kidding, right ?????

just my 2 satang

[Bunnysgal]

Thanks

Btw, My Bf has to get a house or apartment? You mean Buying? Or can be just renting?

And I'll be paying for the school i need to go to to learn Dutch? Or the govt. provides that?

Appreciated all advices >.<

[2 satang]

Thanks 

Btw, My Bf has to get a house or apartment? You mean Buying? Or can be just renting?

And I'll be paying for the school i need to go to to learn Dutch? Or the govt. provides that?

Appreciated all advices >.<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bunny,

Your BF can either buy or rent an appartment or a house, up to his income I would say. Big lists in the newspapers, he'll know his way. depending on where you'll want to live, and how large, it could be cheap.

As for school, depends if its private, you pay, if its government, its free !

Again, let him check at his city hall, plenty of language and integration courses.

Just DO NOT believe that you can make 1500 Euro a month net, unless you are very skilled or very lucky. Or if you want to go the massage way

Good luck !

just my 2 satang

[Bunnysgal]

Thank you 2 satang

Aahh I'm glad that at least renting is o.k. too, cose my BF isn't rich.

But one thing (I know i can be very paranoid sometimes, but .. I can't help it!) one thing ... We me & my bf met through the Net bout 3 yrs ago. And he came to see me like every year. But this year I plan to get tourist visa to go visit him You think the fact that we met throught the Net will make the whole long-stay visa and all that getting harder? Or it doesnt matter as long as we can impress them that we're serious

Yup I wish I'd be very lucky to get that well paid job. But I actually don't really mind whether I get high salary or not. I just want to be able to get a job there, so I can help my BF on some expenses

Thanks once again

[2 satang]

Bunny,

Thats funny, I met my GF also over the net 3 years ago

I went to visit her 8 times till august last year, she came 3 times to visit me, now she lives here with me.

We also rent by the way, no harm in that.....

No problem if you apply for a 90-day visa at the Dutch embassy, make sure you can prove your relation, add some photos, make sure you add copies of his passport with the stamps of his visit. The visa is a breeze.

I even know a couple that applied for a 90-day visa, received it, she came, and got married locally as well, she never returned.

just my 2 satang

[frumau]

I am Dutch myself and I will move to Bangkok to live with my Thai wife in 2006. I decided to move there cause my wife has a nice job and we think I will be more flexible, job wise and otherwise, to live there. To find a job will be very difficult though, but I am willing to take a shot. I will go for it all the way. If it doesn't work out we can always go and live in Holland. I think the decision between Holland and Thailand depends on where you stand in life, where you are on the career ladder and what you both think is the right decision. Paper work comes second..

[alohasiam]

You can make huge money between Thailand and Nederlands if you are a little business minded. My Dutch pals make over 20000 Euros profits in a month (no exaggeration at all) selling very nice and cheap watches and sun glasses from Thailand ( in night markets or street vendors in Bangkok sell for 100-200 bahts, they buy for less than 50 to 100 bahts from the factories and pack them and ship them from shipping agents in Pratunam or hand carry them sometimes to Holland and Belgium themselves and sell them for 20-40 Euros a peice in their stores and other stores, in flea markets, on the internet, or on the auction sites ect)

Before they also exported so many pirated games wares, watches, CDs, DVDs,

and fashion brand name items from Bangkok and poured in over 50000 Euros in a month for many years. But they have stopped pirated items since last year because the Dutch police is getting stricter at the customs also at the internet. But anyways there are still so many good cheap and legal items from Thailand you can sell easily in Holland and make a ton of money like my pals.

[frumau]

I am thinking of setting up a business myself. Tailor made Suits for instance. Furthermore, a friend of mine asked me to set up a diet products selling point. We'll see.... Any tips are always welcome....

[2 satang]

You can make huge money between Thailand and Nederlands if you are a little business minded. My Dutch pals make over 20000 Euros profits in a month (no exaggeration at all) selling very nice and cheap watches and sun glasses from Thailand ( in night markets or street vendors in Bangkok sell for 100-200 bahts, they buy for less than 50 to 100  bahts from the factories and pack them and ship them from shipping agents in Pratunam or hand carry them sometimes to Holland and Belgium themselves and sell them for 20-40 Euros a peice in their stores and other stores, in flea markets, on the internet, or on the auction sites ect)

Before they also exported so many pirated games wares, watches, CDs, DVDs,

and fashion brand name items from Bangkok and poured in over 50000 Euros in a month for many years. But they have stopped pirated items since last year because the Dutch police is getting stricter at the customs also at the internet. But anyways there are still so many good cheap and legal items from Thailand you can sell easily in Holland and make a ton of money like my pals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see now.

Making money in contraband products, no import taxes paid, no company taxes, no personal taxes paid. all black money profit then.

Not my style of living.

just my 2 (official) satang

[Girlfrombar]

bunny

kind of same story here,

i was IRCster (UNIX) and met my bf from internet (>/=8 yrs ago)

don't be worrried much about visa

the officers at dutch embassy in bkk are quite friendly

when they question u something, just reply them 'frankly'

since there're many cases that thai girls are lied&promised about the 'fancy' living life in horn-land, but once they land to the country, the daydreaming is just turn-up-side-down and a lot of them end up getting abused and working illegally (post-slave in the millenium)

anyway don't be prejudiced as well

a lot of thai girls i know, they have proper career in office with salary >EUR1500

(for real)

you can choose life, and use it wisely

[Bunnysgal]

Thank you for all advices

I'm planning to go visit him this April. Now collecting all documents needed to request visa for ..bout 10-12 days stay (I want it longer, but I couldn't take more days off work ) I'll have my bf's mother be the sponsor I'll also submit my Bank statement too, although there's not much money in it. And My mom'll go with me too. But she's a housewife now. So, my bf's mom has to be sponsor for my mom too.

----You think there will be a big chance of me & my mom not being able to get this tourist visa? Or you think asking for tourist visa to stay only 10 days won't be much of a problem? I'm aiming to go apply around end of this month

Bout the decision, I think we gonna need some time to think it through where the 1st place we both should move and try our luck would be

But Thank you anyway

And of course advices or tips always welcome