Insomnia

[desi]

After being an insomniac for what seems like forever (when I was a toddler, my mother would follow me around the house), so I'd like to hear from anyone who has anything new to add to the game. Even if it seems a bit 'out there because I've done everything possible for years.

This is day four and I'm blinking fed up with it all.

The basics of what I've done so far...

Cut down on caffeine

Increase exercise

Watch alcohol intake

Use iPod with relaxing mp3's

Be religious with hormones

And when all else fails, I get out of bed and try to sleep on the sofa with tv on (this usually works).

I don't like drugs, so when I get to this point (four days) I'll have a whisky or glass of wine in the hopes that it'll 'push' me over into la la land.

It's so frustrating. When I run into stretches of non sleep my life goes into a sort of survival mode where I'm fighting to make it back to 'there'.

I have problems with recall, my balance goes out, and at times I can't trust my hearing as sounds come in wonky and distorted. Not being confident with what I'm hearing means I cannot possibly make my way outside.

Sometimes my skin shakes from the inside, taking my focus with it (similar to Max Headroom). And when it's bad, I'm forced to cancel obligations, a part I hate as then I'm forced to make 'excuses'. When it was really bad I'd hallucinate, but it's been years since then.

How do you get through insomnia? Anyone?

[krading]

I suppose you've already heard of 'cognitive behavior therapy'.

[JSixpack]

There was a thread on this not too long ago. Search around.

[ukme]

Try to do some GENTLE aerobic activity before going to bed. Note GENTLE as vigerous exercise will have the opposite effect. An evening stroll is best. Breathe deeply as you walk and "self talk" yourself into a state of relaxation - " I am now winding down" " My eyes are getting heavier" Breathe - IN and Out deeply and slowly.

Don't watch TV/Movies before going to bed as this will stimulate your mind/emotions. Make your bedroom oh so cosy! The correct temperature is important, sound/light proof the room as best as you can. A decent pillow is a must - try memory foam.

Eat a small protien rich meal before going to bed, getting hungry during the night can cause sleep problems.

Best of luck.

[Pakeha]

One bottle of good red wine. I say 'good' because otherwise you will suffer many of the side effects you have mentioned the next day anyway

Probably not what the doctors would prescribe but you will get a nights sleep!

[rak sa_ngop]

Load some Vietnamese language lessons onto your MP3 player and listen to in bed. Listening to the 'sing-song' Vietnamese language always used to send me to sleep straight away.

[Captain Haddock]

Read a book in bed. After 20-30 minutes I find my eyes are closing and I just turn out the light. Doesn't matter if I drop the book or forget the light, no accidents are going to happen.

[davidthai]

After being an insomniac for what seems like forever (when I was a toddler, my mother would follow me around the house), so I'd like to hear from anyone who has anything new to add to the game. Even if it seems a bit 'out there because I've done everything possible for years.

This is day four and I'm blinking fed up with it all.

The basics of what I've done so far...

Cut down on caffeine

Increase exercise

Watch alcohol intake

Use iPod with relaxing mp3's

Be religious with hormones

And when all else fails, I get out of bed and try to sleep on the sofa with tv on (this usually works).

I don't like drugs, so when I get to this point (four days) I'll have a whisky or glass of wine in the hopes that it'll 'push' me over into la la land.

I had the same problem , until i had Air con installed in the bedroom, (We live in an old town house, rented)

It's so frustrating. When I run into stretches of non sleep my life goes into a sort of survival mode where I'm fighting to make it back to 'there'.

I have problems with recall, my balance goes out, and at times I can't trust my hearing as sounds come in wonky and distorted. Not being confident with what I'm hearing means I cannot possibly make my way outside.

Sometimes my skin shakes from the inside, taking my focus with it (similar to Max Headroom). And when it's bad, I'm forced to cancel obligations, a part I hate as then I'm forced to make 'excuses'. When it was really bad I'd hallucinate, but it's been years since then.

How do you get through insomnia? Anyone?

[Groongthep]

Try seeing a specialist at the Bumrungrad sleep disorder center. Telephone 02 667 1555

Here's their website: Bumrungrad Sleep Disorder Center

[BigSnake]

Xanax ONCE in AWHILE works wonder for me. Like any other over the counter drug it can be addict with some side affect. BEWARE!!

[desi]

I suppose you've already heard of 'cognitive behavior therapy'.

Thank you so much for this. I know about the therapy but didn't realise that they now use it for insomnia. And googling, I see that cognitive behaviour is quite popular so I'll give it a shot. Btw - this is what I meant when I made my request. I've been fighting insomnia a long while, but with (perhaps) outdated methods.

Try to do some GENTLE aerobic activity before going to bed. Note GENTLE as vigerous exercise will have the opposite effect. An evening stroll is best. Breathe deeply as you walk and "self talk" yourself into a state of relaxation - " I am now winding down" " My eyes are getting heavier" Breathe - IN and Out deeply and slowly.

Don't watch TV/Movies before going to bed as this will stimulate your mind/emotions. Make your bedroom oh so cosy! The correct temperature is important, sound/light proof the room as best as you can. A decent pillow is a must - try memory foam.

Eat a small protien rich meal before going to bed, getting hungry during the night can cause sleep problems.

Best of luck.

Thanks ukme. I just got back in from being out (trying to wear myself out). My preference was to sleep or lay around but I know that exercise is better, even if it's only walking around.

I switched pillows recently (threw out my cherished feather one). And last night I did have bananas, chicken and some cheese, all recommended.

The light aerobics before going to bed is doable, even if I'm tired (I have an airwalker).

For tv, the History channel often has programs that are soft in presentation, which usually puts me right to sleep (15 min tops). Only, last night they switched to fighting a war and the guns going off kept waking me up.

And as TV won't let me reply to all... to be continued...

[desi]

One bottle of good red wine. I say 'good' because otherwise you will suffer many of the side effects you have mentioned the next day anyway wink.gif

Probably not what the doctors would prescribe but you will get a nights sleep!

This is EXACTLY my emergency remedy! And I agree, it works a real treat. I usually wait until day four or five though, just to make sure my body won't relax on its own. In my 30's I experienced all the reasons why one should not treat insomnia with alcohol so I'm fairly careful these days. But it does work if used right.

On my outing today I picked up a lovely red. And no, I do not have any intentions of posting tonight ;-)

Load some Vietnamese language lessons onto your MP3 player and listen to in bed. Listening to the 'sing-song' Vietnamese language always used to send me to sleep straight away.

This is another one I do, only I use Pimsleurs Thai. Right about... 'An American man sits next to a Thai women on a bus'... I'm usually fast asleep.

I also have my iPod loaded down with all the top insomnia mp3s. Paul McKenna is a favourite but recently I've been listending to Speed Sleep (includes stretching exercises).

Read a book in bed. After 20-30 minutes I find my eyes are closing and I just turn out the light. Doesn't matter if I drop the book or forget the light, no accidents are going to happen.

That would work but I have a man who is not on for it. Just like the tv control, he's also in control of lights out.

Try seeing a specialist at the Bumrungrad sleep disorder center. Telephone 02 667 1555

Here's their website: Bumrungrad Sleep Disorder Center

Thanks. I'm at the point where I'm ready to talk to a sleep disorder specialist. My only worry is that I'm not always having a hard time of it, but I'm sure they'll sort that out.

again... to be continued...

[desi]

Xanax ONCE in AWHILE works wonder for me. Like any other over the counter drug it can be addict with some side affect. BEWARE!! dry.gif smile.gif

Is Xanax over the counter? If not, I'll ask the doctors about it for a last resort. I may not be into drugs, but at times (like right now) I get desperate!

Coming here for advice was clearly the right thing to do. Thank you.

[JSixpack]

Xanax ONCE in AWHILE works wonder for me. Like any other over the counter drug it can be addict with some side affect. BEWARE!! dry.gif smile.gif

Is Xanax over the counter?

Definitely not, but Amitriptylene is. Give that a shot. Non-addictive, too.

[desi]

Definitely not, but Amitriptylene is. Give that a shot. Non-addictive, too.

Thanks. I'll give it a go.

(I'm not sure how much real sleep I got last night - but I do have a very slight headache)

[samuibeachcomber]

Xanax ONCE in AWHILE works wonder for me. Like any other over the counter drug it can be addict with some side affect. BEWARE!! dry.gif smile.gif

Is Xanax over the counter?

Definitely not, but Amitriptylene is. Give that a shot. Non-addictive, too.

They say it (xanax) addictive,but everyones addictive levels are different.However my doctor back home warned me off it as the powers that be reckon it can have long term bad consequences and flatly refused to give me another prescription.But for the price of a good nights sleep maybe its worth taking it.Bad sleep patterns am told can be very harmful,food intake up,blood sugar levels up etc.does the amitriptylene work?I have found nothing works better than xanax so far,although am currently taking a herbal compound instead of xanax(i did feel the effects for 3 days coming off xanax)one is a pill to reduce anxiety,inducing calmness(same as xanax) the other is to boost the sleep hormone selitonin.two month course,see how i go.

[desi]

They say it is addictive,but everyones addictive levels are different.However my doctor back home warned me off it as the powers that be reckon it can have long term bad consequences and flatly refused to give me another prescription.But for the price of a good nights sleep maybe its worth taking it.Bad sleep patterns am told can be very harmful,food intake up,blood sugar levels up etc.does the amitriptylene work?I have found nothing works better than xanax so far,although am currently taking a herbal compound instead of xanax(i did feel the effects for 3 days coming off xanax)one is a pill to reduce anxiety,inducing calmness(same as xanax) the other is to boost the sleep hormone selitonin.two month course,see how i go.

So does Xanax need to be taken every night? I don't have insomnia every night, just for stretches of time. I'm ok for taking a pill on the odd occasion but not on a regular basis as I'm not much of a pill person.

I don't have anxiety but boosting sleep hormones sounds good. Where did you get the selatonin?

[samuibeachcomber]

They say it is addictive,but everyones addictive levels are different.However my doctor back home warned me off it as the powers that be reckon it can have long term bad consequences and flatly refused to give me another prescription.But for the price of a good nights sleep maybe its worth taking it.Bad sleep patterns am told can be very harmful,food intake up,blood sugar levels up etc.does the amitriptylene work?I have found nothing works better than xanax so far,although am currently taking a herbal compound instead of xanax(i did feel the effects for 3 days coming off xanax)one is a pill to reduce anxiety,inducing calmness(same as xanax) the other is to boost the sleep hormone selitonin.two month course,see how i go.

So does Xanax need to be taken every night? I don't have insomnia every night, just for stretches of time. I'm ok for taking a pill on the odd occasion but not on a regular basis as I'm not much of a pill person.

I don't have anxiety but boosting sleep hormones sounds good. Where did you get the selatonin?

regarding xanax,i used to take 1 tablet 1 hour before going to sleep,no you dont have to take one every night,but i did find if i skipped a night i had a very bad sleep,hence i used to take one every night,i guess thats where the addiction comes in.

regarding my herbal treatment for insomnia,i got them sent over from australia from a naturopath i used to go to in sydney,am 10 days into a 2 month course so will see how i go.

[Neeranam]

They say it is addictive,but everyones addictive levels are different.

Yes, same for heroin and cocaine

[Neeranam]

you know you can get xanax over the counter.They say it is addictive,but everyones addictive levels are different.However my doctor back home warned me off it as the powers that be reckon it can have long term bad consequences and flatly refused to give me another prescription.But for the price of a good nights sleep maybe its worth taking it.Bad sleep patterns am told can be very harmful,food intake up,blood sugar levels up etc.does the amitriptylene work?I have found nothing works better than xanax so far,although am currently taking a herbal compound instead of xanax(i did feel the effects for 3 days coming off xanax)one is a pill to reduce anxiety,inducing calmness(same as xanax) the other is to boost the sleep hormone selitonin.two month course,see how i go.

So does Xanax need to be taken every night? I don't have insomnia every night, just for stretches of time. I'm ok for taking a pill on the odd occasion but not on a regular basis as I'm not much of a pill person.

I don't have anxiety but boosting sleep hormones sounds good. Where did you get the selatonin?

regarding xanax,i used to take 1 tablet 1 hour before going to sleep,no you dont have to take one every night,but i did find if i skipped a night i had a very bad sleep,hence i used to take one every night,i guess thats where the addiction comes in.

regarding my herbal treatment for insomnia,i got them sent over from australia from a naturopath i used to go to in sydney,am 10 days into a 2 month course so will see how i go.

How did you find coming off the xanax, if you are off it?

[desi]

regarding my herbal treatment for insomnia, i got them sent over from australia from a naturopath i used to go to in sydney, am 10 days into a 2 month course so will see how i go.

Can I please get a list of what you are importing? I can have friends from Australia send them over...

And yes, I'm awake again.

This is totally frustrating.

[Sheryl]

Reminder: Xanax is a controlled substance in Thailand and its OTC sale is illegal. Discussion of illegal activity is not permitted on the forum.

Desit:

1) Goven the chronic nature of your problem I do not recmmend xanax or anything of the sort.

2) I do strongly recommend that you take a course of Vipassana meditation, no cost and will get to the root cause as well as leave you with a technique you can use to help you sleep. www.dhamma.org click on course schedules, Asia then Thailand for listing of centers and course dates.

3) Cognitive therapy may also be useful. So might hypnosis. A combination of meditation and therapy probably the best bet.

4) If really desperate for temporary relief can purchase Atarax over the counter, get the 25mg strength and can take up to 100mg as single dose. Not for chrionic use but may enable you to catch up on lost sleep for now.

Good luck

[desi]

Sheryl, I was not aware of Xanax being in that group so thanks for the heads up.

Early next week I'm headed off to an island where they offer a meditation course at a temple. I plan on taking it. Cognitive therapy is also real possibility so I'll look into it on my return. I have Atarax 25mg (it's what the airport pharmacy gave me when I asked for something to help me sleep on the plane). It hasn't worked for me when I get to this stage of not sleeping, but I'll try it tonight anyway.

I'm desperate as none of my tried and true tricks are working. There's a real possibility of this being related to something hormonal. Recently I changed my diet and took out all soya products (previously I deleted most dairy). Soya does have an affect on hormones so it could be the culprit. I'm usually on top of hormones but forgot about soya.

Thanks for the tips.

[Sheryl]

If you are perimenopausal or menopausal, hormones could indeed play a role and supplementing with natural estrogen (oestrogel) and progesterone may help.

Can get natural progesterone in micronized form brand namer Utrogestan, will cause some relaxation and sleeipiness.

Don't know what does of Atarax you sued but can go up to 100 mg (4 tabs). 35 mg doesn't put me to sleep at all, 50mg helps some, but 75 fopr sure. Again, not for long term use, but sounds like you really need to get caught up on your sleep.

[desi]

I started going through menopause in my 20's. I was fully out of it by 32 as exploratory surgery proved no eggs (but the doctors said most likely earlier).

I tried natural hormones in the beginning but they didn't work at that time. I'll look into Utrogestan (can I get them in Thailand?). But I don't like the side affects when I'm not the official drugs (thinned out nether regions... yeah...)

Atarax - maybe that's why they didn't work for me, because I don't take enough? But I'm a lightweight with drugs so I'm pretty careful. I try to be careful.

Yes, I'd really like some sleep. I'm now at the pathetic stage.

[Sheryl]

I started going through menopause in my 20's. I was fully out of it by 32 as exploratory surgery proved no eggs (but the doctors said most likely earlier).

I tried natural hormones in the beginning but they didn't work at that time. I'll look into Utrogestan (can I get them in Thailand?). But I don't like the side affects when I'm not the official drugs (thinned out nether regions... yeah...)

Atarax - maybe that's why they didn't work for me, because I don't take enough? But I'm a lightweight with drugs so I'm pretty careful. I try to be careful.

Yes, I'd really like some sleep. I'm now at the pathetic stage.

Very likely too low an Atarax dose. In low doses it acts as an antihistamine, in higher doses as a minor tranquilizer. Tranq dosage range is 25 - 100 mg. A one time does of 100mg won't do any harm other than leaving you with a very dry mouth.

Utrogestan is available in Thailand.

If the "official" drugs you are taking include provera that may be a large part of your problem. Suggest you at least switch from the progestin to a natural progesterone. Which utrogestan is. Although it is preferrable to take progesterone transdermally, the transdermal foprm (made by same company that makes Utrogestam) seems no longer abvailable in Thailand, so Utrogestan is the only locally available choice. One benefit of it is that it does give a peak level shortly after taking it which is conducive to sleep (dermal foprm is realeased more gradually).

[desi]

Thanks Sheryl,

I tried the Atarax last night and slept from 11pm to 4am. Five hours is not too shabby but it's not enough sleep either.

The hormones I'm on are Progynova 1mg for three months, then I switch to Premarin 0.625 for over a week (when I can bear it). I had to stop taking Premarin monthly due to a strong emotional reaction. I did try natural hormones years ago but suffered even more health problems so I need to be careful. And that's my worry about Utrogestan, but I'll try it out.

[yumidesign]

Try this it comes from a Yoga practice

Lie on your back in bed first with your toes together then ley you feet fall away. Palms up. Long slow breathing. Count 5 in and five out, longer if it feels comfortable.

Now slowly take your attention to the big toe of your right foot and relax that part of your body completely

then the next toe

thent the next etc etc

then the ball of the right foot then the arch of the right foot

then the heel of the right foot

the the lower right leg

the knee

buttocks

stop as you think about relaxing the part of the body you are concentrating on

go though the parts of the left leg

torso

arms

hands

fingers

neck

mouth

nose

eyes

sides of head

top of head

as you go through every part of your body continue breathing slowly in slowly out

if you are not asleep already

turn over on you right side and recite a mantra of a single word........

try it could work for u

good luck

[yumidesign]

google -- Yoga Nidra --- to find out more

[Sheryl]

Thanks Sheryl,

I tried the Atarax last night and slept from 11pm to 4am. Five hours is not too shabby but it's not enough sleep either.

The hormones I'm on are Progynova 1mg for three months, then I switch to Premarin 0.625 for over a week (when I can bear it). I had to stop taking Premarin monthly due to a strong emotional reaction. I did try natural hormones years ago but suffered even more health problems so I need to be careful. And that's my worry about Utrogestan, but I'll try it out.

Desi,

Have you had a hysterectomy? Because otherwise should not be takling unopposed estrogen which is what Progynova and Premarin are.

Progynova is a natural (human) estrogen. Premarin is horse estrogen. I have never heard of anyone taking both and don't know what point there would be to that. One or the other should suffice, action is the same except that the Progynova is likely to cause fewer problems since unlike the Premarin it is identical to the estrogen produced in the human body.

Since you are in fact taking a natural estrogne I am not sure what you werre referring to when you said you previously tried natural hormones??

If you have had a hysetrectomy then most doctors would indeed put you on only estrogen rather than estrogen and progesterone, but there is some thought that this is not ideal because the hormone deficiency post-menopause is a deficiency of both hormones, i.e. progesterone has other functions than just causing a shedding of the uterine lining.

Natural progesterone is usually well tolerated except for some drowsiness which in your case will be welcome. (Need to be careful about online purchase of "natural progesterone"though as quality and potency varies).

If you are taking both an estrogen and a progestin (as opposed to progesterone), studies have shown that progesterone makes a difference in sleep quality, see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11201509

This link givers detailed info on micronized progesterone (which is what utrogestan is):

http://www.medscape.com/druginfo/dosage?dr...onotype=default

There is some evidence to suggest that synthetic progestins may increase the risk of breast cancer. The effect of natutral progesterone has never been studied and synthetic progestins are completely different in chemical structure from natural progesterone; however in absence of studies it is probably wise to avoid if there is a family hostory of breast cancer.

Lastly the incidence of sleep disorders related to breathing (e.g. sleep apnea) increased post-menopause so if problem does nto respind should consider going to a sleep clinic, especially if your problem is of waking up after falling asleep.