Do You Make An Effort To Learn Thai?

[Naam]

I used to learn 5 new words everyday. I used to have a lot of learning Thai books and hung out with Thai people. I've never been to a class but think it's necessay for some if they have the time/money. When learning to read and write I put aside 1 hour a day, which when you think about it is nothing.

The best way to learn is immersion, in MHO.

I think it's sad when someone who has been here for 20 years can't pick up the local newspaper or have a proper conversation. I'd be embarassed. I remember many years ago sitting in a Pat Pong bar not being able to ask for a knife and fork after being here for 18 months. Knowing then I'd probably be here fo a while, I made a huge effort and am so glad I did.

It's amazing the number of times I go to a new restaurant and the waitress gives a menu to only my wife and totally ignores me. Thailand must be the only country in the world that treats foreigners this way, probably due to the number who can't speak. Can you imagine a waiter in UK asking a Uk woman what her brown-skinned partner wanted to drink.

What do you do to improve your Thai?

If you do nothing, why?

Laziness, arrogance, fear, stupidity?

Thais who are interested to deal with me and are (99.9% of the cases) after my money must have the ability to communicate in one of the languages i master.

as simple as that

[Naam]

i have never heard a farang speak like a native thai. not even andrew biggs or any other farang on tv.

i apppreciate the effort they put in, but 20 year expat heros who claim to speak obscure dialects or claim to 'waal isaan' still speak 'mai chat'.

polite thai is essential to learn.

that it is essential to learn and of course use a dozen polite phrases goes without saying.

[Neeranam]

Thais who are interested to deal with me and are (99.9% of the cases) after my money must have the ability to communicate in one of the languages i master.

as simple as that whistling.gif

How sad.

[Neeranam]

i have never heard a farang speak like a native thai. not even andrew biggs or any other farang on tv.

i apppreciate the effort they put in, but 20 year expat heros who claim to speak obscure dialects or claim to 'waal isaan' still speak 'mai chat'.

polite thai is essential to learn.

Really, I've heard a lot.

[kiakaha]

i have never heard a farang speak like a native thai. not even andrew biggs or any other farang on tv.

i apppreciate the effort they put in, but 20 year expat heros who claim to speak obscure dialects or claim to 'waal isaan' still speak 'mai chat'.

polite thai is essential to learn.

Really, I've heard a lot.

I too have heard foreigners speak like a native thai, indistinguishable accent. I also know countless foreigners who can read and write exceptionally well where many native thais are illiterate or have very poor reading/writing skills.

[keestha]

Glad I finally found the time&energy to read this thread. The subject greatly interests me, but it is always a bit difficult to get over the threshold to start reading a very long thread from the beginning.

Just a few loose observations:

1) Personally I couldn't imagine living and doing business in Thailand without speaking/reading Thai, but I know that there are many expats having happy and productive lives without speaking the language. Everybody has to make choices about what abilities to acquire. Many divers would probably hold me for crazy, living in a world class diving area but never having learned to dive, though probably using business leverage I could get a diving course for free.

2) Farangs who are oh so proud of speaking good Thai (or think they can) , really showing it off on purpose, just get on my nerves. When a farang starts speaking Thai to me, I immediately point out to him that my English/German is better than my Thai, that in his case this will be the same, and that I am not interested in a competition who speaks the best Thai.

3) Sadly enough, in my bar owner days I experienced that the ladies working for me received the rudest, least respectful treatment from Thai speaking farangs.

4) It is indeed a VERY difficult language. The muscles in these people's jaws have developed in a different way, and you never get the pronounciation right. To the tourists I am doing business with, my Thai seems fluent, but when they ask about it, I always say that even though I speak far better English and German than that I speak French, my French is still better than my Thai. In Thai I know much more words than in French, but my French sounds much better, much more natural. Speaking Thai, though I am understood well, I will always sound like an extraterrestial.

5) What about this "natural approach" the AUA applies? They claim you learn to speak EXACTLY like the Thais. Inside I was chuckling though, when this guy who had followed this course told me in heavily German accented English that he spoke Thai exactly like the Thais.

[dukkha]

I have been speaking it, in my fashion, for 4 years, daily with my partner...had a few lessons but just bit the bullet, no seriously, I have a gift for languages but this one scared the *&^%$ out of me, I decided to just be confident and see how it goes, could not imagine living here without the spoken word or without understanding the spoken word of others...but hey, wateva rocks ya boat... Dukkha

[barrybankruad]

I've lived here over 4 years now, and I certainly regret for the first 32 months, I ignored the thai language spoken around me. Instead I pushed it into the background like a nuisance noise.

I've studied thai for at least several hours a day, nearly everyday for the last 16 months straight. I taught myself to read first, and then speak, and also to type on the pc, but I still have problems with writing. I wish I'd paid more attention to learning thai when I first got here but, hindsight is 20/20.

I think ANYONE; even alleged 'tone deaf' foreigners who think they don't have a knack for languages can learn "two-word" or "tourist" thai quite easily IF they try. Ordering food, directing a taxi, asking the location of something if you're lost, day to day pleasantries, telling someone you only speak thai a little bit, asking someone to speak slower; all of those things aren't hard by any stretch of the imagination. Most are "frozen phrases" which a thai would understand even if the foreigner saying it mangled the phrase horribly.

Granted with a limited vocabulary once a thai goes off "script" you could be lost, but day to day or what some thai language schools call "survival thai" can be a BIG help. You're certainly not going to be talking about the upcoming G8 Summit or global warming, but you can get by day to day quite easily and build on what you know.

I am continually amazed at the number of people who've lived here a LONG time, often married to thai women (whose engrish is marginal at best), living up-country in Nakhon Nowhere and yet they cannot speak or understand the simplest thai. Perhaps they make do thru the clever use of mime and/or charades, who knows. I also meet retired foreigners who've been here a long time as well and who are just too lazy to even try, saying it is too difficult or takes too much time. <deleted>, you're retired, you don't DO anything but kill time, how can you not at least learn some thai. The mind just wobbles at how they even manage to survive here. With thai language schools being both plentiful and inexpensive in the Bangkok area, there is no reason not to learn survival thai.

I am far from a foreign wanna-b-thai sock puppet, but I do believe IF I live here I should be able to converse with the native inhabitants in their language. Although if the truth be told, usually I'll try to coerce them into speaking english first to gauge their mood as they chatter away thinking I can't speak or understand thai. I have found a good ice breaker after listening to them denigrate you to your face while hiding behind their presumed language barrier is; "Why do you speak like that? Do you think only thai people can speak and understand thai?" It certainly quiets them down, lol...

It was a hard uphill battle to learn to speak clear enough, and with the right word order to be understood and I still have problems if I don't watch them reply to me, as I tend to tune them out, but in my opinion it was and is time well spent.

[Underbelly]

I know 1 american guy who can speak Thai like a Thai.

When he is on the phone they think he is Thai. So its rubbish that people claim that you can never speak the language as good or close to a Thai.

This guy has only been learning for 3 years too.

[Groongthep]

Glad I finally found the time&energy to read this thread. The subject greatly interests me, but it is always a bit difficult to get over the threshold to start reading Just a few loose observations:

5) What about this "natural approach" the AUA applies? They claim you learn to speak EXACTLY like the Thais.

They claim that you will learn Thai exactly the same way the Thais themselves learned it; by listening before speaking. Nowhere do they claim that the students will eventually speak exactly like a native. A few have though.

[Neeranam]

I know 1 american guy who can speak Thai like a Thai.

When he is on the phone they think he is Thai. So its rubbish that people claim that you can never speak the language as good or close to a Thai.

This guy has only been learning for 3 years too.

People think I'm Japanese when I seak Thai on the phone.

[sanook2me]

Reading this posting - i went and bought a new Thai English book yesterday from Asia Books.

I bought one from the Thai section - Learn English grammar etc..

it was 190 baht .. English under the Thai so ideal for reading Thai

It was 100 -200 baht cheaper than the same style books in the learn Thai section...

if you are interested in learning buy the Thai version books - much wider choice and cheaper to boot !

[Groongthep]

Reading this posting - i went and bought a new Thai English book yesterday from Asia Books.

I bought one from the Thai section - Learn English grammar etc..

it was 190 baht .. English under the Thai so ideal for reading Thai

It was 100 -200 baht cheaper than the same style books in the learn Thai section...

if you are interested in learning buy the Thai version books - much wider choice and cheaper to boot !

Your reasoning is sound but unfortunately there are many books on the market which are intended to teach English to Thais that are loaded with mistakes.

[Insight]

This thread has given me (yet another) proverbial kick-up-the-arse also. Going to pick up stationary this weekend to make flashcards with and try 5 words per day.

Guess I could try typing them out during the day to get me familiar with the keyboard...

[sanook2me]

Groongthep Posted Today, 2009-03-19 08:33:06

QUOTE (sanook2me @ 2009-03-19 00:20:09) *

Reading this posting - i went and bought a new Thai English book yesterday from Asia Books.

I bought one from the Thai section - Learn English grammar etc..

it was 190 baht .. English under the Thai so ideal for reading Thai

It was 100 -200 baht cheaper than the same style books in the learn Thai section...

if you are interested in learning buy the Thai version books - much wider choice and cheaper to boot !

Your reasoning is sound but unfortunately there are many books on the market which are intended to teach English to Thais that are loaded with mistakes.

As English is my native language I hope to be able to spot any deliberate mistakes by the editors to keep the Thais dumbfounded when learning from grammar books.

Where is your evidence of many books loaded with mistakes?

[bkkjames]

Groongthep Posted Today, 2009-03-19 08:33:06

QUOTE (sanook2me @ 2009-03-19 00:20:09) *

Reading this posting - i went and bought a new Thai English book yesterday from Asia Books.

I bought one from the Thai section - Learn English grammar etc..

it was 190 baht .. English under the Thai so ideal for reading Thai

It was 100 -200 baht cheaper than the same style books in the learn Thai section...

if you are interested in learning buy the Thai version books - much wider choice and cheaper to boot !

Your reasoning is sound but unfortunately there are many books on the market which are intended to teach English to Thais that are loaded with mistakes.

As English is my native language I hope to be able to spot any deliberate mistakes by the editors to keep the Thais dumbfounded when learning from grammar books.

Where is your evidence of many books loaded with mistakes?

In the Laern Elgish Section of the boosktore. Dontt belive me, go cee for myslefl.

[Neeranam]

This thread has given me (yet another) proverbial kick-up-the-arse also. Going to pick up stationary this weekend to make flashcards with and try 5 words per day.

Guess I could try typing them out during the day to get me familiar with the keyboard...

Good for you Insight!

There's a good thread pinned in the Thai forum.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Let-s-Learn-...Day-t49903.html

[PeaceBlondie]

Benjawan Poontang looks and dresses lovely. However, the a sound in baht and mahk and khrap is not a schwa. All the a sounds in Alaska sound nothing like it. Alaska begins and ends with a schwa sound, like the uh in....duh....Now, if a well trained expert in teaching Thai cannot start the alphabet correctly, why continue? In fact, it took a Slovene to show me that the basic vowels of Thai are almost identical to Spanish. A Slovene! And he wrote a book for Slovenes to learn Thai.

[wileycoyote]

I think it is worthwhile

[worldfun]

interesting - thai vowels are like spanish?

OK maybe best I go learn & verify for myself (thai+spanish!) LOL

[lobospec]

i have never heard a farang speak like a native thai. not even andrew biggs or any other farang on tv.

i apppreciate the effort they put in, but 20 year expat heros who claim to speak obscure dialects or claim to 'waal isaan' still speak 'mai chat'.

polite thai is essential to learn.

Really, I've heard a lot.

I too have heard foreigners speak like a native thai, indistinguishable accent. I also know countless foreigners who can read and write exceptionally well where many native thais are illiterate or have very poor reading/writing skills.

Heard a lot eh? On the bar stool in Sukhumvit Soi 4 eh? Real good thai being spoken there I bet.

How would a farang like be able to distinguish if there is an indistinguishable accent or not? A native Thai could. You wouldnt be able to pick up the subtle nuances and inflections.

Like I said, sure some farangs make an effort and speak Thai at a high level but I doubt a farang could speak like a native Thai.

jing jing

[sanook2me]

What's the fascination with speaking the same as a native Thai?

Do Thais sound like native English speakers when they are pretty much fluent? No....

you can always tell an Asian on the telephone even if they are fluent in English...so i doubt westerners can ever sound like a native Thai too...

[kiakaha]

What's the fascination with speaking the same as a native Thai?

It's called "setting goals". Nothing wrong with setting the bar as high as it will go mate. Tiger Woods didn't get to his level by simply striving to be a good Sunday golfer

[Neeranam]

What's the fascination with speaking the same as a native Thai?

Do Thais sound like native English speakers when they are pretty much fluent? No....

you can always tell an Asian on the telephone even if they are fluent in English...so i doubt westerners can ever sound like a native Thai too...

The Thais that I know who speak English fluently sound English - they studied in England.

Likewise, if an expat learned his Thai in Thailand, OF COURSE he might sound like a native Thai.

In Edinburgh, it's funny speaking to the Indians and Pakistanis, who, GUESS WHAT, speak with a heavy Edinburgh accent.

[sbk]

Inflammatory comments and their responses have been deleted. Flaming and inflammatory comments are against the forum rules and I would like to suggest to new members and old alike to please read the rules again before posting as further such comments will earn a formal warning rather than this public recommendationto remember to mind one's manners.

[patklang]

I try to learn new words every couple of days and after 5 years i am still crap,but do understand many words and understand some thai conversations more than i can speak.

Got to start learning the thai alphabet now,i can count to thousands but am lazy.

[kiakaha]

i have never heard a farang speak like a native thai. not even andrew biggs or any other farang on tv.

i apppreciate the effort they put in, but 20 year expat heros who claim to speak obscure dialects or claim to 'waal isaan' still speak 'mai chat'.

polite thai is essential to learn.

Really, I've heard a lot.

I too have heard foreigners speak like a native thai, indistinguishable accent. I also know countless foreigners who can read and write exceptionally well where many native thais are illiterate or have very poor reading/writing skills.

Heard a lot eh? On the bar stool in Sukhumvit Soi 4 eh? Real good thai being spoken there I bet.

No, I've been working here 13 years and the last time i heard a foreigner speak thai like a native thai speaker was in a lecture to an auditorium of 100+ thais, subject matter being the industry we are employed in. Given that my thai (reading and speaking) is at about มัธยม ๓ level, I have a fairly accurate opinion on what I hear.

[Oberkommando]

Some poster say we are all guests here, but that is not true. Many Farangs have everything they own here, they live and work here, family, house etc and they do not want to leave. Such a place is called home.

When you've got a stamp in your passport that says NON-IMMIGRANT or TOURIST that's what you are.

Just because you want to be something badly doesn't automatically make it so.

[kiakaha]

Some poster say we are all guests here, but that is not true. Many Farangs have everything they own here, they live and work here, family, house etc and they do not want to leave. Such a place is called home.

When you've got a stamp in your passport that says NON-IMMIGRANT or TOURIST that's what you are.

Just because you want to be something badly doesn't automatically make it so.

Its worth noting that many foreigners also have an IMMIGRANT Visa (also known as permanent residency)

[Neeranam]

Some poster say we are all guests here, but that is not true. Many Farangs have everything they own here, they live and work here, family, house etc and they do not want to leave. Such a place is called home.

When you've got a stamp in your passport that says NON-IMMIGRANT or TOURIST that's what you are.

Just because you want to be something badly doesn't automatically make it so.

Its worth noting that many foreigners also have an IMMIGRANT Visa (also known as permanent residency)

Many also have Thai passport. (farang that is NOT foreigners)

Edited March 21, 2009 by Neeranam