My Catfish Farm Operation

[Dancealot]

ah here it is again.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/249638-my-catfish-farm-operation/page-4#entry6559431

[RedBullHorn]

Dear ray23,

Forget Pla Duk... Don't dream of Pla Duk, You won't get rich with Pla Duk, Just play play with Pla Duk, Stick to Pla Room...

I mean Mushroom, Stick to Mushroom, REAL money is Mushduk... I mean Mushroom.

God ! Now I'm confused too

Now that is a fact

The Pla rooms we netted 20 K for last year and slowly built to 14,000, the goal for this year is a 100 K net. That would be a nice supplement to my wife's income. We still sale everything within 3 Klms of the farm. Our market is primarily a small village area. We haven't ventured in Udon yet, That is where everyone else goes. So I'm not stepping on any Thai toes.

Pla Mor should be interesting never done that before, they will be in above ground tanks I'm planning to pump oxygen at this point..

Maybe I better stick to the fish as a hobby.

To answer the other Gentleman's have used forced air for two years no clogging issues. What I did was drill hose in a pvc pipe capped off the end and then connected it to hose. You have to weight it down or it will just float on the top

If you made money, you are on the right track, stick to it and don't give up. I started small too and today i've build my empire of pla duk.

From my my 1st batch untill my 3rd batch, 11/4/2013 untill 23/7/2013. For this season (hot season, Thailand Summer) I've already NETTed ฿393'000.-

Clarias catfish calender start on March and end in following February each year.

...and I've got 2 more season to go.

Same period last year (without the EXPANSION) I NETTed ฿316'000.- My hired farmhand bagged ฿56'000 for his share on the rental pond. (rearing period = 11/4/2013 - 15/7/2013) I pay him according to harvest yield. 1kg=฿3. (1 tonnes=฿3'000.-)

Good farmhand is very hard to come by, Jai tem 100 !!! (100% commitment and follow my instruction to the finest detail) Give people a chance, there's a Chinese saying : " If in doubt, don't use his service, if you use his service, don't doubt."

After all expenses, my Nett from this reantal pond is ฿133'000.- (inclusive of hired help share of ฿56'000.- )

Laughing to the bank...again~

Edited July 27, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[Bodrules]

To answer the other Gentleman's have used forced air for two years no clogging issues. What I did was drill hose in a pvc pipe capped off the end and then connected it to hose. You have to weight it down or it will just float on the top

Thanks Ray for the information, so down to personal preferences then?

Wonder which one is the more efficient at getting Oxygen into the water....mmmm also wonder about other gaseous exchange re the CO2 being helped along by the process (dim memories re partial pressures of vapour in school physics lessons creeping back into my head here)

[tingtong]

first of all, congrats to RedBullHorn, for the great numbers!!

you and what you do are a motivation for me and many!

as i sidenote, i would like to add a few things.

RBH does this for a while, and most importantly has the contacts (and contracts) that ensure a relative smooth sale, and what a newbie cant just duplicate!!

some smart proverbs says that: the profit is made at the buying, not the selling....and it is just as true with the catfish.

RBH fairly clearly knows at the start how much is his feed costs, enjoying bulk buying discounts a small scale farmer never will.

has supply of fingerlings at a price a small scale farmer will find quite impossible to locate.

and has a contract t9o sell at farm gate, for a pretty decent price.

all these are LOTS of EDGE (hard earned as they are) what very few will enjoy. It isnt just the game of money to put there!

We had been given it a shot to catfish.

Started out small, 200 in a net, than 1000...just about like Ray did, small profit and all....all fine, so, let try in real scale, 10.000.

a 1000m2 pond, full of fish. about 20% save on feed, yay, on the way, right?

not quite!!

found out that the local market ppl who promised to buy bulk will backpaddle to maybe 10kg a day, for the whopping price of 35baht, vs the 42 previously said. of course, there was promise but not contract, and as selling date neared shrinked both the daily amount and the price.

So, go retail!!

Actually in the beginning it worked fine, sold up to 20kg a day....but then you have over 2000kg fish, so, guess it isnt overnight to sell!! the price of 60thb some consolation, sure it sounds better than 35...

but soon enough you find that getting out of the lake 15-20kg a day isnt that easy.

Ray, this especially for you, planning to sell 6kg a day

while RBH sells bulk, you wont have that luxury! Neither had I.

Drain the lake, and lose lots of fish as thai wont be willing to buy dead catfish, and some inevitably will die.

Or what?!

And here end the story.

Conclusion:

If you dont have a firm contract/system in place, as RBH has, dont contemplate to repeat his story, even if much smaller scale, it wont happen ( else you have many 20m2 lakes with 200 fish in each, for easier empty out/sell process?)

Contracts (real or imaginary) are highly guarded, thus you wont have too much chance to enter anything larger scale, not even to supply local market stall, unless you are willing to be selling in the market.

If you still try, expect laughable bulk price from the existing sellers to switch to your fish...low enough that you will lose.

All above is only to give applause to RBH for his great things, but also a little warning to others that it isnt that easy as it looks!!

In comparison, mushroom is an easier ride, less investment, easier retail sell, not to mention i like to eat it more than catfish

Sorry for the long post!

[Bodrules]

Very interesting stuff - even for a non fish farmer like me - couple things have tweaked my curiosity meter;

1) anyone have an opinion on why concrete vs earth ponds should produce a difference in growth rate?

2) with regard aeration, interesting method to use a paddle wheel or similar, just wondering if a forced air bubbling system (at its most basic hose with holes in it and pump to force air through it) is ruled out due to potential silting / clogging issues

Concrete tank is not their natural habitat and nobody will put soil in it. Earthen pond's bed have the ability to store heat during the day and release during the night. (in Cold season)

Thanks RBH, most appreciated,

It makes sense when it's put that way - water stays warmer for longer, therefore the fish have an elevated metabolic rate which leads to more chance for them to grow.

[RedBullHorn]

first of all, congrats to RedBullHorn, for the great numbers!!

you and what you do are a motivation for me and many!

as i sidenote, i would like to add a few things.

RBH does this for a while, and most importantly has the contacts (and contracts) that ensure a relative smooth sale, and what a newbie cant just duplicate!!

some smart proverbs says that: the profit is made at the buying, not the selling....and it is just as true with the catfish.

RBH fairly clearly knows at the start how much is his feed costs, enjoying bulk buying discounts a small scale farmer never will.

has supply of fingerlings at a price a small scale farmer will find quite impossible to locate.

and has a contract t9o sell at farm gate, for a pretty decent price.

all these are LOTS of EDGE (hard earned as they are) what very few will enjoy. It isnt just the game of money to put there!

We had been given it a shot to catfish.

Started out small, 200 in a net, than 1000...just about like Ray did, small profit and all....all fine, so, let try in real scale, 10.000.

a 1000m2 pond, full of fish. about 20% save on feed, yay, on the way, right?

not quite!!

found out that the local market ppl who promised to buy bulk will backpaddle to maybe 10kg a day, for the whopping price of 35baht, vs the 42 previously said. of course, there was promise but not contract, and as selling date neared shrinked both the daily amount and the price.

So, go retail!!

Actually in the beginning it worked fine, sold up to 20kg a day....but then you have over 2000kg fish, so, guess it isnt overnight to sell!! the price of 60thb some consolation, sure it sounds better than 35...

but soon enough you find that getting out of the lake 15-20kg a day isnt that easy.

Ray, this especially for you, planning to sell 6kg a day

while RBH sells bulk, you wont have that luxury! Neither had I.

Drain the lake, and lose lots of fish as thai wont be willing to buy dead catfish, and some inevitably will die.

Or what?!

And here end the story.

Conclusion:

If you dont have a firm contract/system in place, as RBH has, dont contemplate to repeat his story, even if much smaller scale, it wont happen ( else you have many 20m2 lakes with 200 fish in each, for easier empty out/sell process?)

Contracts (real or imaginary) are highly guarded, thus you wont have too much chance to enter anything larger scale, not even to supply local market stall, unless you are willing to be selling in the market.

If you still try, expect laughable bulk price from the existing sellers to switch to your fish...low enough that you will lose.

All above is only to give applause to RBH for his great things, but also a little warning to others that it isnt that easy as it looks!!

In comparison, mushroom is an easier ride, less investment, easier retail sell, not to mention i like to eat it more than catfish

Sorry for the long post!

And that is the truth...It's a game of wholesalers' politic, played out in a provincial platform, on a nation-wide stage. Same goes with the pig arena. My pain-staking stint to curry flavour wholesalers and amount of brew i spent during the early years paid off.

I AM FEED INDEPENDENT. My feed supply comes straight from the factory by-passing middleman. And also...

I AM FINGERLINGS INDEPENDENT. No middleman to take a cut on the price of my stock supply.

All this are hard to come by, that's why i share no contacts.

Edited July 27, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[ray23]

first of all, congrats to RedBullHorn, for the great numbers!!

you and what you do are a motivation for me and many!

as i sidenote, i would like to add a few things.

RBH does this for a while, and most importantly has the contacts (and contracts) that ensure a relative smooth sale, and what a newbie cant just duplicate!!

some smart proverbs says that: the profit is made at the buying, not the selling....and it is just as true with the catfish.

RBH fairly clearly knows at the start how much is his feed costs, enjoying bulk buying discounts a small scale farmer never will.

has supply of fingerlings at a price a small scale farmer will find quite impossible to locate.

and has a contract t9o sell at farm gate, for a pretty decent price.

all these are LOTS of EDGE (hard earned as they are) what very few will enjoy. It isnt just the game of money to put there!

We had been given it a shot to catfish.

Started out small, 200 in a net, than 1000...just about like Ray did, small profit and all....all fine, so, let try in real scale, 10.000.

a 1000m2 pond, full of fish. about 20% save on feed, yay, on the way, right?

not quite!!

found out that the local market ppl who promised to buy bulk will backpaddle to maybe 10kg a day, for the whopping price of 35baht, vs the 42 previously said. of course, there was promise but not contract, and as selling date neared shrinked both the daily amount and the price.

So, go retail!!

Actually in the beginning it worked fine, sold up to 20kg a day....but then you have over 2000kg fish, so, guess it isnt overnight to sell!! the price of 60thb some consolation, sure it sounds better than 35...

but soon enough you find that getting out of the lake 15-20kg a day isnt that easy.

Ray, this especially for you, planning to sell 6kg a day

while RBH sells bulk, you wont have that luxury! Neither had I.

Drain the lake, and lose lots of fish as thai wont be willing to buy dead catfish, and some inevitably will die.

Or what?!

And here end the story.

Conclusion:

If you dont have a firm contract/system in place, as RBH has, dont contemplate to repeat his story, even if much smaller scale, it wont happen ( else you have many 20m2 lakes with 200 fish in each, for easier empty out/sell process?)

Contracts (real or imaginary) are highly guarded, thus you wont have too much chance to enter anything larger scale, not even to supply local market stall, unless you are willing to be selling in the market.

If you still try, expect laughable bulk price from the existing sellers to switch to your fish...low enough that you will lose.

All above is only to give applause to RBH for his great things, but also a little warning to others that it isnt that easy as it looks!!

In comparison, mushroom is an easier ride, less investment, easier retail sell, not to mention i like to eat it more than catfish

Sorry for the long post!

And that is the truth...It's a game of wholesalers' politic, played out in a provincial platform, on a nation-wide stage. Same goes with the pig arena. My pain-staking stint to curry flavour wholesalers and amount of brew i spent during the early years paid off.

I AM FEED INDEPENDENT. My feed supply comes straight from the factory by-passing middleman. And also...

I AM FINGERLINGS INDEPENDENT. No middleman to take a cut on the price of my stock supply.

All this are hard to come by, that's why i share no contacts.

[ray23]

I followed up on a manufactor. We could get a better price if we bought in 100 bags lots. But, being small that brings up a storage problem.

We have a dry outside storage room, we can use. But if you only order once in five years, your not going to be welcome long. We can stock Pla Duk again today. But, I think the hand writing on the wall your just going to get a profit, from your work. Twice through, better results this time. But no need to beat a dead horse.

So it will be Pla Mor or pass for that pond. Problem is out local supplier doesn

t have them. I doubt we will get special order for a !,000

So does anyone gave a source for Pla Mor?

By the way we only get 50 baht a kilo on Pla Duk, in Udon and that's retail.

Your operation is outstanding RBH, I know you put a lot of work in getting there I'm happy for you.

Edited July 28, 2013 by ray23

[tingtong]

The self life of the pla duk feed, (and many others) are about 3 months, and while it might be just ok after, the quality will be lower...

so, store only what you feed in this time window.

50thb/kg is very low retail price. we can sell for 60, and that is a steady price.

but as i said, getting out 5-10kg a day from the lake isnt economically viable, especially that if you have around 2000kg fish ready to go...would take 200 days by 10kg a day....and they like to eat during that time too!!

So, as for me, they will be for my fun, and to weed out the baby tilapias in the other ponds (we have 3).

The tilapia can be sold once a yr or about, when the lake drained in the dry season, whatever grow is 100% profit ( - the pumpuing cost, but water should be pumped to the sugarcane anyway)...

[RedBullHorn]

I followed up on a manufactor. We could get a better price if we bought in 100 bags lots. But, being small that brings up a storage problem.

We have a dry outside storage room, we can use. But if you only order once in five years, your not going to be welcome long. We can stock Pla Duk again today. But, I think the hand writing on the wall your just going to get a profit, from your work. Twice through, better results this time. But no need to beat a dead horse.

So it will be Pla Mor or pass for that pond. Problem is out local supplier doesn

t have them. I doubt we will get special order for a !,000

So does anyone gave a source for Pla Mor?

By the way we only get 50 baht a kilo on Pla Duk, in Udon and that's retail.

Your operation is outstanding RBH, I know you put a lot of work in getting there I'm happy for you.

Please be aware that a 100 sacks of pellet feed doesn't qualify you a manufacture/factory price, you will get a discount price. (still middleman)

Understanding the term Factory Price.

By the term of "factory price" meaning i will have to sit down in a meeting with the (brand) company's sale representative and area/zone manager for about 5 times to negotiate term & condition like monthly targeted feed quota in tonnage, cash rebate for ordering different truck load (6 wheelers/10 wheelers/12 wheelers), transportation fee, unloading labour fee, conditions to get free airline flight tickets to Europe, under-table commission/cash back, products series that i will gain control of in my district (exclusive rights), penalties on default, period/years of contract....etc,etc...

I'm like a area sole distributor. (I didn't find them, they found me. Every year, 3-4 feed sale reps come to see me and offer deals.)

This is the level i am at right now. The volume of fishes i farm per calender year is more than enough to use all the feed i order, i use between 9'900 - 10'800 sacks/year. And potential to expand further.

I also make about ฿30'000/year from selling empty sacks.

Edited July 28, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[Dancealot]

One of my village neighbours dug out his pond to expand it's capacity. Great to witness.

[ray23]

My 100 bags even I could use them wouldn't amount to much in the scheme of things. Unless I wanted to fight my way to where you are, never will be a comparison. I don't want to do that I have a good retirement. This is something for my wifes future.

I believe that will rest in plarooms.

[RedBullHorn]

New arrival for 2nd season, this is the 1st batch - 100'000 fingerlings. Planned harvest on 20th of October.

2nd batch of 120'000 is schduled to arrive in the next 20 days.

[RedBullHorn]

Double post. Deleted.

Edited July 29, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[banned1000]

plaa mor: how much per kg are you looking to sell these for?

[RedBullHorn]

Link =

^{Pla Mor, Climbing Perch ( Not a True Perch)}

ray23 please try to recall what you have read before.

Edit: Market is very narrow for this fish even though they fetch very high price.

Food for thought... Why i didn't want it ?

Edited July 29, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[banned1000]

"but soon enough you find that getting out of the lake 15-20kg a day isnt that easy."

i dont understand this. you have to feed them and when they feed they gather at the surface in large numbers, so why cant you just hit them with a cast net at feeding time till you get what you want? do they get cagey or something?

[ray23]

"but soon enough you find that getting out of the lake 15-20kg a day isnt that easy."

i dont understand this. you have to feed them and when they feed they gather at the surface in large numbers, so why cant you just hit them with a cast net at feeding time till you get what you want? do they get cagey or something?

Yes they are, for example you catch one with bait, your done for the day. Casting nets they will hide in the mud. Speaking Pla duk.

This is the best thing I found on E.M. and the only one that I found that talked about mud balls

http://emrojapan.com/about-em/em-products/activated-materials/howtomakebokashi.html

I certainly understand RBH, But, working in very small numbers, retailing to villagers I think I can move them if I ever find them. The price retail is 100 baht per kilo locally.

I have to review this again and fishing 201.

I admire your operation, never seen anything like it in the Udon area. My other hobby is motorcycle touring and I have been on just about every back road in the Udon area, I don't know why they are not here, maybe we are to far from Bangkok.

That certainly seems to be the case for Mushrooms. I have enough room to increase it by five times. But, I haven't found a market for that many yet.

It was interesting when I did my research the EM was illustrated in compost mostly.

I apologize RBH but, my memory is bad these days. I will do more review.

[RedBullHorn]

catfishes are instinctive and will avoid certain spots where net were cast before. feeding and casting net will also make them wary and most will no come to eat. It is just like calling my dog "Come !" it will come because he know i'm going to pet him. But if he know i'm going to punish him, it will be reluctant to come even when i call out the command "Come !" repeatedly.

Edited July 30, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[tingtong]

"but soon enough you find that getting out of the lake 15-20kg a day isnt that easy."

i dont understand this. you have to feed them and when they feed they gather at the surface in large numbers, so why cant you just hit them with a cast net at feeding time till you get what you want? do they get cagey or something?

it is as the others answered

and having a 600-1000m2 pond vs. a 4m2 castnet, lives the fish lots of room to avoid you!

do the cast net thing at feeding time repeatedly, and after 3-4 days you will find that almost non will come to eat!!

fishing with bait....not a viable way, good for fun, wont work for quantity daily.

[ozzydom]

"but soon enough you find that getting out of the lake 15-20kg a day isnt that easy."

i dont understand this. you have to feed them and when they feed they gather at the surface in large numbers, so why cant you just hit them with a cast net at feeding time till you get what you want? do they get cagey or something?

it is as the others answered

and having a 600-1000m2 pond vs. a 4m2 castnet, lives the fish lots of room to avoid you!

do the cast net thing at feeding time repeatedly, and after 3-4 days you will find that almost non will come to eat!!

fishing with bait....not a viable way, good for fun, wont work for quantity daily.

The secret is to alternate your catching area around the ponds.We turn over about 8 tonne of Pla Nin a year, all caught with cast nets.

Our ponds are 1 rai minimum and I use custom made nets of 6 metre diameter with 2-21/2" mesh and extra heavy chain to get faster sinking.

Catching should be carried out morning and evening as Pla Nin "rest up" when sun is directly overhead,as indeed do most fish .

Catfish ,as mentioned have a habit of burying in the mud to avoid netting.

For final cleanup of ponds ,we pump water down to about 30cm and drag a net similar to a trawl with top floats and 3/8inch chain bottom to dig down into the mud ,the last phase is to pump out remaining water then get down and dirty hand catching the stragglers.

Never a shortage of helpers as the deal is, market size fish go into the holding net and the helpers keep the small koong , snakeheads etc.

[ray23]

Good to see you back Dom. Netting talapia is much easier then cat fish, in small ponds like mine. From time to time we will use a net in the larger pond. The rocks make it tough. Thai's enjoy pole fishing so many times I let them do the harvesting and charge the same.

Still working on the Pla Mor. the supplier on the Nong Khia hwy is trying to find us some. So we will see I have learned from Redbull cat fish, either get in it or don't bother. Unless you can operate on that level, where you have discounted foods ect.

I still operate the same as you with Pla Nin. algae and food occasionally I will be pumping the big pond in March to give it a bit of a rest. And I think we are getting to many fry form the existing fish so time to clear things out .

Edited July 30, 2013 by ray23

[banned1000]

ok so there are two other methods i would have considered. lift nets and traps.

wouldnt need to be as big as this one and try in conjunction with feeding.

these of various designs

also in conjunction with holder cages for when you catch more than you need for the day.

what are the problems with these? same learned longer term (few days) shyness i guess?

Edited July 30, 2013 by banned1000

[banned1000]

duplicate removed

Edited July 30, 2013 by banned1000

[banned1000]

download and play locally not streaming

video of trap in ratchaburi beside the train line over the bridge

http://www.datafilehost.com/d/d49ae8a1

video of lift net in action 2 minutes for up remove catch and down to reset.

http://www.datafilehost.com/d/96d78068

Edited July 30, 2013 by banned1000

[RedBullHorn]

Thank you for taking the time to post the links...But can i kindly impose on you to post them in YouTube or any other way to embed them here...I am a bit wary when it is an .exe file...

Thank you in advance for your understanding.

Edited July 30, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[banned1000]

Thank you for taking the time to post the links...But can i kindly impose on you to post them in YouTube or any other way to embed them here...I am a bit wary when it is an .exe file...

Thank you in advance for your understanding.

that is an ad spam link the real link is a mp4 download and looks like this

if your are still worried i'll try vimeo.

these will be ready in about 45 minutes from now:

lift net https://vimeo.com/71339919

fish trap https://vimeo.com/71340174

Edited July 30, 2013 by banned1000

[tingtong]

nice that you spent the time.

my experience with fish trap, that is also works ok until a certain fish density in the pond...then it is kind a useless. we have 2 fishtraps, experimented with them for a while...

the pull up net was mentioned, while i said a smaller size, simply as that is a mobile version ( approx. 2x2m) that we can pull up still fast enough from a 2m deep pond to have a chance to find something in it.

while you pic/video shows a lot larger size, i hope you realise that it isnt really made for a 25x40m pond...

anyway, it is somewhat theory vs reality, even though it might just be my reality. but this reality based on experience not video....

trust me, if there would be an easy way, i would love it, especially in the rainy season when ppl arent emptying out pond, thus even easier to sell fish.

their is money to kae in catfish, as RBH's example shows, even though he happy to sell for 42thb farmgate...and there is breakeven results even if you sell 60thb retail, like we do/did....due to many facts that the 2 operation differs.

should one be able to duplicate RBH?

ONLY if has his contacts, else, DONT EVEN TRY!

and that was the real point of posting here for prospective fish farmers )

[RedBullHorn]

"Current" Clarias catfish Farmgate Price: Northern region ฿46-48, Southern region ฿48-50. Due to short supply and high demand. Current support line on the chart is ฿45.8 if it is based on feed price.

Why the short supply ? I won't go into detail~

Edit: price quoted are base on Catfish Association of the region. what price i got ? Yes you guess it.

A fish farmer should always not just farm for the sake of farming. A well informed farmer will know that Market intel is equivalently important.

Edited July 30, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[RedBullHorn]

Flash flood at the path to my catfish farm 2 years ago (2011). I go through with ease on my ATV.

Edited July 30, 2013 by RedBullHorn