2009 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

Second practice Hungarian GP. Mclaren 1st & 2nd

Early days yet, but looks like they have made improvements.

In Hungary, much of the race results depend on qualifying and the start. Do well in both and you've got a good shot. For me, this says nothing good about the track.

All the discussion and research by the FIA into how to make races more competitive and exciting by changes to the regulations every year seems to make little difference. I think they are tackling the problem from the wrong direction. The tracks are the problem, not the cars. Too many of them are out-dated and don't allow for over-taking. They should forget sentimentality and ditch them from the calandar - except of course for Monaco! Whilst over-taking at Monaco might be limited, noone can deny that the track does provide entertainment and excitement.

Despite saying all that, hope for a good race this weekend. It will be interesting, if perhaps not exciting!

[Mosha]

Slater. "Massa has elected to stay in the car." Well it looks like he was at least out cold. I hope he's ok.

Oh shit something hit him on the head.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Mosha

[Mosha]

A picture of Massa after the impact shows one eye shut. The doctors put him under to relieve pressure on his brain. He could be away for a while.

[TBWG]

A picture of Massa after the impact shows one eye shut. The doctors put him under to relieve pressure on his brain. He could be away for a while.

Latest info says he has surgery for a fractured skull, they say it has been successful let's hope so. It really is not Ferraris year. A particularly bad week what with Henry Surtees similar incident.

I am not really a fan of Massa but hope to see him back racing soon.

TBWG

[TBWG]

Hi

See grid plus fuel load ~~~~ Alonso running on fumes, stops lap 13 ~~~ Button heaviest of top ten, stops lap 26. 19 starters tomorrow.

Weights

01. Alonso Renault 637.5

02. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 655.0

03. Webber Red Bull-Renault 652.0

04. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 650.5

05. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 654.0

06. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 655.5

07. Raikkonen Ferrari 651.5

08. Button Brawn-Mercedes 664.5

09. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 658.0

10. Massa Ferrari

11. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 671.5

12. Trulli Toyota 671.3

13. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 689.0

14. Glock Toyota 679.2

15. Piquet Renault 667.7

16. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber 658.0

17. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 680.5

18. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 683.5

19. Kubica BMW-Sauber 666.0

20. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 675.5

TBWG

[wackysleet]

Hi

See grid plus fuel load ~~~~ Alonso running on fumes, stops lap 13 ~~~ Button heaviest of top ten, stops lap 26. 19 starters tomorrow.

Weights

01. Alonso Renault 637.5

02. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 655.0

03. Webber Red Bull-Renault 652.0

04. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 650.5

05. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 654.0

06. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 655.5

07. Raikkonen Ferrari 651.5

08. Button Brawn-Mercedes 664.5

09. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 658.0

10. Massa Ferrari

11. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 671.5

12. Trulli Toyota 671.3

13. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 689.0

14. Glock Toyota 679.2

15. Piquet Renault 667.7

16. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber 658.0

17. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 680.5

18. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 683.5

19. Kubica BMW-Sauber 666.0

20. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 675.5

TBWG

TBWG. I thought that I read somewhere that a manufacturer cound not supply more than two teams with engines until 2010 then the FIA as we all know proposes Cosworth engines for the new comers.

[Mosha]

The EU may have something to say about that. Anti competition laws etc..

[Mosha]

What is Slater smoking? A couple after his co commentator comments on Felipe' being in a medically induced coma. The camera shows the team with a message to their driver. Slater says something about if he is awake as he seen the message. Dawson also made a stupid comment but I forget that now. Slater should stop expressing comments and concentrate on specifics.

PS I'm an happy bunny. Unashamedly a McLaren fan, but hoping Kimi isn't punished. IMHO a racing incident.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Mosha

[TBWG]

Hi F1 fans

Well that is a turn up for the books, but being a Brit I am a happy bunny! A Brit won and damage limitation for Button although as Eddie Irvine once said you have to win the championship yourself and not rely on other drivers (He had just been gifted a win by the other Mika i.e. Salo).

I now see that Renault have been excluded from the next GP at Valencia for their lack of action in the loose wheel incident, yes OK it was stupid but they paid the price with Alonso's retirement. However who will suffer at the end of the day? ~~~ the fans, only 18 cars on the grid, a mass stay away of Spanish fans at a concrete industrial estate circuit that was only half full last year and needs as many bums on seats as possible!

Fine them or give them a grid penalty but don't punish the fans, mind you it will prove all those people right who said Piquet will not be on the grid at the next GP!

I do hope the FIA do not start a witch hunt after the bit falling off Rubens Brawn, if they do they should may be look at their own inaction last year when Kimi trailed a loose exhaust round for many laps with no penalty, perhaps something they should bear in mind before banning teams.

TBWG

[TBWG]

TBWG. I thought that I read somewhere that a manufacturer cound not supply more than two teams with engines until 2010 then the FIA as we all know proposes Cosworth engines for the new comers.

I think this is currently a grey area, yes at the moment they can only supply 2 other teams but as you say the FIA have stretched the rules for Cosworth but then they are not an entrant.

I think next years rules must have been relaxed because I would have expected a Prodrive entry to be Mercedes powered, Force India and Brawn will surely not wish to change supplier and Red Bull are in talks with Mercedes so another FIA attempt to rein in the manufacturers seems to have backfired.

But maybe with Red Bulls current competitive package they will not wish to change?

TBWG

[skydiver77]

Had a pleasant surprise after watching the press conference.

I switched over to see if could catch some of Moto GP at Donnington Park. It had'nt even started yet and all were in a bit of a tiz. On slicks ready for the warm up lap, then ever increasing drops of rain started to come down.

Then on catching sight of a bulky figure wandering around, wearing a baseball cap, I thought, 'It can't be.' Then as the camera dove in on him, it was! My all time favourite racer, Nigel Mansell, comfortingly carrying a naturally expanded waistline. It seems he was there as a guest of Rossi and in the short interview he mentioned how much he admired all the riders.

During his racing days, only he and Irvine were never intimidated by Senna, and I often think how Nigel in his younger days would fare against todays stars. One things for sure, he would have a hel_l of a job squeezing in todays sardine cans.

Then another surprise. Someone else, looking strangely familier, drifted in front of the camera. Phil Read, 8 times world champion and looking rather old. Sometimes it's a shock to see how time marches on.

I guess that makes me just a grumpy old git.

[njpski]

Well done, Webber

Best wishes to Massa, those helmets are sure strong

[Mosha]

While I'm pleased he is showing signs of recovert. I also think Massa's career as a F1 driver is over. If he races again I will show (discreetly) my bare arse. This is Thailand after all. As for Planet F1 forums saying Alonso will drive for Ferrari in Valencia, 'cos Renault are banned. Oh dear

[TBWG]

Hi

It is being suggested that Massa may have sustained some eye damage, if this is the case then I fear that his F1 career may indeed be over.

With restricted vision in one eye I believe ones depth perception is affected, in F1 any shortcomings are magnified and the slightest impediment could make the difference between the front row and the back of the grid.

Last week there was a TV programme in the UK which featured Sevy Ballesteros who has been left with vision problems in one eye, he mentioned that he can putt OK with the aid of a pencil mark on the ball, but any distance shots were now out of the question due to poor depth perception. While I wish Felipe a 100% recovery I do have concerns.

As for Alonso stepping into a Ferrari for Valencia I hope it happens but it will need a lot of goodwill between sponsors and contractural obligations, but it would be good for Kimi comparison purposes and would put a lot of Bums on seats!

TBWG

PS Mosha... yes please be discreet when exposing your bare a**e especially if it's in the Surin area or else you might finish up in the slammer overnight like another forum sponsor member

[rixalex]

most do not blame the car week in week out, take Jenson, for some years now he's been driving a car that had no realistic chance but didn't moan about it and just went about his job with what he had,

During Sunday's race, Button was heard asking his team over the radio: "How can this car be so bad at the moment?"

[Mosha]

When reports say that Barrichello spoke to him on Saturday, I assumed they were talking about a conversation, albeit a limited one. This article hints he is communicating with gestures. I'm wondering if he's in a worse state than people are letting on.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Motorspor...ered_eye_damage

[wackysleet]

most do not blame the car week in week out, take Jenson, for some years now he's been driving a car that had no realistic chance but didn't moan about it and just went about his job with what he had,

During Sunday's race, Button was heard asking his team over the radio: "How can this car be so bad at the moment?"

Thats an old quote from me rixalex,especially when you consider Jenson had been driving pigs forever and a day, and your quoted comments from Jenson about sundays race were very mild after this seasons performances from the Brawn, please quote some of the comments from Hamilton when his car was not performing, or is this a case of selective amnesia? , by the way, I'm a Vettel and Alonso supporter.

[rixalex]

most do not blame the car week in week out, take Jenson, for some years now he's been driving a car that had no realistic chance but didn't moan about it and just went about his job with what he had,

During Sunday's race, Button was heard asking his team over the radio: "How can this car be so bad at the moment?"

Thats an old quote from me rixalex,especially when you consider Jenson had been driving pigs forever and a day, and your quoted comments from Jenson about sundays race were very mild after this seasons performances from the Brawn, please quote some of the comments from Hamilton when his car was not performing, or is this a case of selective amnesia? , by the way, I'm a Vettel and Alonso supporter.

Mate, when you state an opinion it's up to you whether you want to substaniate it or not. You accused Lewis of turning too quickly on his team, not me, so why should i be the one digging around for quotes that make your point?

I had previously expressed that i didn't think Jenson was any different from Lewis, or any of the other drivers for that matter, in complaining about his car when it was difficult to drive - just that before he was at the back of the field and not fighting for the Championship so we weren't hearing much of what he had to say - now we are, and his quote i think demonstrates that he can complain as much as the next man. And as for it being a very mild comment, i have to say that to my mind it wasn't. He wasn't just complaining about one area, he was implying the whole car was crap. Not that i blame him, because it obviously is crap right now - just as Lewis's car obviously was crap at the beggining of the season.

Anyway, if you consider "How can this car be so bad at the moment?" to be very mild, i look forward to hearing how it compares to what Lewis has said.

Regarding the ban for Renault, i too think it's very harsh. If anything i would say that the Red Bull team's action of letting Webber out into the path of another car in the pits was equally as dangerous. There are so many team crew members standing around in that tight area that the potential for fatality is very high. I recall Massa's team doing likewise a year or two ago when McClaren were being penalised for sneezing, and he also received no penalty - strange.

Also who can forget when Kimi was dragging around his exhaust that was hanging off. There's no consistency.

[rixalex]

Schumacher to make a come-back?! Surely not!

Actually although i don't think it will happen, it might be fun. I'd certainly be interested to know how he fared against the new talent that's out there.

My guess is though he could quite easily live with Kimi's pace - a few years ago i wouldn't have said that, but Kimi's heart just hasn't been in it for some time now. Both him and Massa are finished at Ferrari - for different reasons.

[Mosha]

If Kimi thinks he has a chance in a car, he'll drive is heart out. Give him a mediocre car and you'll get a performance to match. I'd put money on MS struggling with this years car.

[TBWG]

If Kimi thinks he has a chance in a car, he'll drive is heart out. Give him a mediocre car and you'll get a performance to match. I'd put money on MS struggling with this years car.

Hi

Reports say that MS is not fit enough and is still suffering from an injury sustained earlier in the year when he was involved in a motorcycle racing incident! Not to mention the fact that he is now 40.

Various names have been put forward including Bourdais and DC!

TBWG

[F1fanatic]

If Kimi thinks he has a chance in a car, he'll drive is heart out. Give him a mediocre car and you'll get a performance to match. I'd put money on MS struggling with this years car.

Hi

Reports say that MS is not fit enough and is still suffering from an injury sustained earlier in the year when he was involved in a motorcycle racing incident! Not to mention the fact that he is now 40.

Various names have been put forward including Bourdais and DC!

TBWG

I'm completely torn on the issue of Schumi coming back.

On the one hand it would be great to see him race again and, having nothing to lose (i.e. not racing for the WDC), would race his heart out. On the other - he hasn't raced for 2.5 years, so much has changed - its inconceivable that he could match his past performance.

One of Schumi's great strengths was always that he would never give up. Never mind how bad the car (2005 springs to mind!), he outperformed the car. Much as I dislike Alonso's previous 'toys out of the pram' attitude, he has the same strength of fighting despite the poor performance of his car.

That's why I've far less time for other drivers who perform well in a top car, but lose motivation (or drive badly)when the car is rubbish.

I'm not only referring to Kimi, as Jenson and Lewis also fall into this category IMO.

Edited July 28, 2009 by F1fanatic

[rixalex]

One of Schumi's great strengths was always that he would never give up. Never mind how bad the car (2005 springs to mind!), he outperformed the car. Much as I dislike Alonso's previous 'toys out of the pram' attitude, he has the same strength of fighting despite the poor performance of his car.

That's why I've far less time for other drivers who perform well in a top car, but lose motivation (or drive badly)when the car is rubbish.

I'm not only referring to Kimi, as Jenson and Lewis also fall into this category IMO.

Now there are bad cars and there are bad cars. What Jenson has to to cope with for the last three of four years, and what Lewis was driving earlier this season, redefine bad in a way that Alonso wouldn't have experienced. Don't get me wrong, if you take character out of the equation, Alonso is one of the best without a shadow of a doubt, but the car he is driving now is a mid-field performer and he is generally finishing just above mid-field, whilst his team mate consistently puts the car below mid-field. That difference in class is flattering Alonso very nicely. Let's see how he performs if and when he has some real competition along side him - like when he was at McClaren.

[F1fanatic]

One of Schumi's great strengths was always that he would never give up. Never mind how bad the car (2005 springs to mind!), he outperformed the car. Much as I dislike Alonso's previous 'toys out of the pram' attitude, he has the same strength of fighting despite the poor performance of his car.

That's why I've far less time for other drivers who perform well in a top car, but lose motivation (or drive badly)when the car is rubbish.

I'm not only referring to Kimi, as Jenson and Lewis also fall into this category IMO.

Now there are bad cars and there are bad cars. What Jenson has to to cope with for the last three of four years, and what Lewis was driving earlier this season, redefine bad in a way that Alonso wouldn't have experienced. Don't get me wrong, if you take character out of the equation, Alonso is one of the best without a shadow of a doubt, but the car he is driving now is a mid-field performer and he is generally finishing just above mid-field, whilst his team mate consistently puts the car below mid-field. That difference in class is flattering Alonso very nicely. Let's see how he performs if and when he has some real competition along side him - like when he was at McClaren.

I think the Renault last year (and this year) was and is a seriously bad car. As I've said before, I'm not an Alonso fan, but I do think he outdrove the car. I agree though that it makes it harder to judge when your team mate performs badly. However, as I said in a previous post, Piquet hasn't been given the same equipment as Alonso - which doesn't help!

I agree that Jenson had a bad car for the last few years, but he added nothing to the car's performance. Rubens outperformed him last year in the same car.

Lewis had a seriously bad car at the beginning of the season and added nothing to it. He tried too hard and drove badly. Heikki (hardly a stunning team mate!) outperformed him at times although he always managed to mess up the race somehow!

p.s. The news on Massa is looking better! Let's hope he will be back next season! (I can't see that he could come back this season with the injuries he sustained)

Edited July 28, 2009 by F1fanatic

[rixalex]

Lewis had a seriously bad car at the beginning of the season and added nothing to it. He tried too hard and drove badly.

I agree that Lewis's weakness is pushing too hard and taking too many risks - and when they don't come off that looks bad on him - but it's also what makes him such an entertaining driver to watch. Better that than a driver who plays the percentages game and never gambles IMO.

[rixalex]

As I've said before, I'm not an Alonso fan, but I do think he outdrove the car. I agree though that it makes it harder to judge when your team mate performs badly.

No question at all that Alonso outdrives his car regularly. The degree to which he does does have a question mark though.

However, as I said in a previous post, Piquet hasn't been given the same equipment as Alonso - which doesn't help!

Maybe not but let's face it, Piquet has been hopeless and without his surname he would have been history ages ago.

[TBWG]

As I've said before, I'm not an Alonso fan, but I do think he outdrove the car. I agree though that it makes it harder to judge when your team mate performs badly.

No question at all that Alonso outdrives his car regularly. The degree to which he does does have a question mark though.

However, as I said in a previous post, Piquet hasn't been given the same equipment as Alonso - which doesn't help!

Maybe not but let's face it, Piquet has been hopeless and without his surname he would have been history ages ago.

Well it appears Nelson jnr has sealed his fate ~~~~ Quote "Flavio is a business man, but he doesn't understand s*** about F1," Piquet told Autosprint magazine. "He's my manager, but in his role of team boss he doesn't respect me.

"He only thinks about money, at how much money he can pocket in everything he's involved in, he's a man with no friends. Every day everyone asks me what's going on, so why should I always keep quiet?

Now I seem to recall that 'Flav' rose from the Benetton empire so he probably knows about knitwear but b****r all about F1 which would make you think he had style BUT anyone who has seen pictures of him in his swimwear might think otherwise!

I now recall a comment made by Ron Dennis many years ago when Flav won the World Championship with Schumacher and Benetton he also commented along the lines that how could he be so successful when he knew zip all about the sport!

TBWG

PS: I did think about posting a pic of Flav in his swimwear but thought it was pushing the boundaries of Thai Visa good taste rules! but if you ask nicely I could be persuaded

[Mosha]

Pretty please.

[F1fanatic]

PS: I did think about posting a pic of Flav in his swimwear but thought it was pushing the boundaries of Thai Visa good taste rules! but if you ask nicely I could be persuaded

NO, NOOOOO - PLEASE DON'T!!!

I've seen the photo to which I think you're referring and it may be funny but it is also revolting - certainly enough to put you of your dinner!

[F1fanatic]

Lewis had a seriously bad car at the beginning of the season and added nothing to it. He tried too hard and drove badly.

I agree that Lewis's weakness is pushing too hard and taking too many risks - and when they don't come off that looks bad on him - but it's also what makes him such an entertaining driver to watch. Better that than a driver who plays the percentages game and never gambles IMO.

I agree, sort of!

The trouble is that Hamilton's "taking too many risks" often relies on the drivers around him giving way or crashing!

However, I fully admit that I'm being v unfair in this criticism as Schumi used to do the same in his 'best' years, and I thought he was great.

Once Schumi started playing 'the percentages game', it was far less entertaining.

I think though, the difference is that Schumi rarely drove badly even when driving a car that was not race-winning material.

At the moment I think Hamilton has proven his detractors right - at the beginning of the season in a poor car he performed badly. Given a race winning car once again, he drove very well. Early days though - hopefully he will have learnt from the experience of driving a poor car and be more capable in this situation in the future. We'll see......