I thought that I had an understanding of the Thai Immigration system

[Nick33]

I thought that I had an understanding of the Thai Immigration system and its requirements after being here now for a couple of years but it seems not and I wonder if someone can answer the following questions:

I am on a retirement visa and have just renewed my annual at Kap Choeng. I previously had a multi entry visa which cost 3800B but this year I was told that it is no longer available and I had to have the standard visa at 1900B? If I want to leave the country to visit another country, say Cambodia or Lao, do I have to apply to an immigration office requesting permission to leave or can I do that at a border post on leaving?

If you are married I understood that you can apply or reapply having either 400,000B in a Thai bank for three months or more or a monthly pension of 65,000B. (Yesterday I was informed that if you are married then you only need a monthly pension of 40,000B?) If you are single then I understood you required 800,000B or a pension of 65,000B a month. Yet now I am told that the Thai Immigration Authorities want both the required level of savings and a monthly pension? Why and how can they change the requirements to suit their mood?

When you have been here for a couple of years then the chances are that you have built a house for your wife/girlfriend and are in the process of supporting her (and her extended family). You pay for the electricity, water, telephone, two mobile telephones, UBC, household bills, medical bills, feeding and clothing her and any other expense that may have arisen since you met. You have probably bought a car (or two) and a motorbike. Are paying for her motorbike and any other hire purchase agreements that she (or her family) may of entered into without a hope in hel_l of paying off. All in all you have probably made a substantial financial investment in Thailand.

So why are we always made to feel like second class citizens when reporting to Thai Immigration? When you arrive they speak to you with disdain and as if you are a criminal reporting to your probation officer. If you dare to arrive without all of the necessary documention in the exact provision to support your stay you are chastised and spoken to like a schoolchild.

When we went last week I had a letter from one bank stating that I had 665,689B in my account and a statement from another bank stating that I had over one million Baht in a long term savings account. Unfortunately however the statement, run off 5 days earlier, only ran up until February and now we were in March! They asked me for my bank books, which I had made the mistake of not taking for the first time, and then made me drive the four hour round trip back home and back to the Immigration office so that they could see that I had the required funds to allow me to stay.

What happens if they decide that you do not have the necessary financial clout? What happens to the house that you have paid to have built but can never own? Who pays for the electricity, water, telephones, UBC, food, household, medical bills then?

I had also committed the heinous crime of overstaying by one day. The Immigration Officer was in her element when she discovered that and spoke to and looked at me as if I had insulted her family. She then made me pay the 500B fine and had me sign as an Alleged Offender in her little book for naughty boys.

I do wish that Thailand would wake up to the fact that people like me pay an awful lot of money to stay in Thailand. I love Thailand and its people. I have a great respect for your King and Buddha and hope that I can stay here paying my way for many years to come. I just wish that I was appreciated more by the Thai authorities and was treated with the same respect that is demanded by them.

[Jingthing]

If I want to leave the country to visit another country, say Cambodia or Lao, do I have to apply to an immigration office requesting permission to leave or can I do that at a border post on leaving?

You need to apply at your immigration office. I am not sure if you can do this at any immigration office or only your "home" immigration office. By permission to leave, I mean you need a valid re-entry permit for such trips if you wish to retain your current extension of stay.

As far as the fact that we are being treated as second class citizens beings (we are not any kind of citizen here!), frankly I knew the score about that before I moved here. It is not going to change. Ever. So we must accept it or go crazy. We weren't invited. We invited ourselves.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

I thought that I had an understanding of the Thai Immigration system and its requirements after being here now for a couple of years but it seems not and I wonder if someone can answer the following questions:...

Yes, it does seem that you do not understand the Thai immigration system very well.

I am on a retirement visa and have just renewed my annual at Kap Choeng. I previously had a multi entry visa which cost 3800B but this year I was told that it is no longer available and I had to have the standard visa at 1900B? If I want to leave the country to visit another country, say Cambodia or Lao, do I have to apply to an immigration office requesting permission to leave or can I do that at a border post on leaving? ...

I believe you are talking about a retirement extension, not a visa, and that you previously had a multiple-entry re-entry permit for which you paid the regular fee of 3,800 Baht.

There is no “standard visa at 1,900 Baht” but the standard fee for the annual extension of stay is 1,900 Baht.

The multiple-entry re-entry permit for 3,900 Baht is still available. The single-entry re-entry permit costs 1,000 Baht.

...If you are married I understood that you can apply or reapply having either 400,000B in a Thai bank for three months or more or a monthly pension of 65,000B. (Yesterday I was informed that if you are married then you only need a monthly pension of 40,000B?) If you are single then I understood you required 800,000B or a pension of 65,000B a month. Yet now I am told that the Thai Immigration Authorities want both the required level of savings and a monthly pension? ...

The current requirements for extensions of stay are laid out in Police Order No. 777/2551. See clause 2.18(6) for the marriage extension, clause 2.22 for the retirement extension.

...Why and how can they change the requirements to suit their mood? ...

They, ie an authorised institution of the Thai government, can change the rules because the respective law allows it. How do they do it? For the rules for extensions of stay, they issue a new Police Order.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...What happens if they decide that you do not have the necessary financial clout? What happens to the house that you have paid to have built but can never own? Who pays for the electricity, water, telephones, UBC, food, household, medical bills then?...

If you cannot meet the financial requirements for the annual extension you have two options:

1. Apply for special consideration under paragraph 5 of Police Order 777/2551:

5. If the applicant does not fully meet the qualifications as prescribed by this order or other cases not stipulated herein, the competent official holding a rank of police inspector and higher will consider if there are sufficient reasons to stay in the Kingdom. If so, the competent official shall submit the application to the Command-General or authorized person to consider an alien applicant.

2. If you are not given special consideration, leave Thailand for good or leave and return with a visa, eg a multiple-entry non-O visa.

...So why are we always made to feel like second class citizens when reporting to Thai Immigration?...

Feelings are a very subjective thing and I cannot say why you feel in a particular way in a particular situation.

...What happens if they decide that you do not have the necessary financial clout? What happens to the house that you have paid to have built but can never own? Who pays for the electricity, water, telephones, UBC, food, household, medical bills then?...

You should feel free you include these questions when applying for special consideration as mentioned above. The decision is then up to the “authorised person”

—

Maestro

P.S. Had to make two post to answer all questions because when I had it in one post I got the error message saying that I used more than the allowed number of quotes.

[InterestedObserver]

After being here a couple of years you clearly do not understand the Thai system, immigration or otherwise, and as a foreigner your status in Thailand.

[CosmicSurfer]

Thais have never learned that "respect" is something that is earned.. not 'owed'!.. and certainly something not to be demanded, unless of course they don't care about actual real respect, and only require a superficial token of respect.. which is, after all, all that Thai elites are really about... superficiality and tokenisms.

As such, they will never respect you for your positive feelings and contributions towards their country.

Now, when I say "they" I am referring to the hi-so elites that actually control and run this place, not the average everyday educated middle and uneducated lower classes who welcome you for whatever their personal reasons may be.

So my advice to you, as their head-in-the ground disrespectful treatment of you begins to fester, is to sell your house, cut your extended family adrift to join the masses of people that the Thai government abandons and ignores, packed up your possessions, your wife, your kids, clear your bank account, and head to almost any other country in the region, or back to where you are from, where the word respect and contribute has actual real-life meaning and value.

Things here are on a irreversible downward slide, and hopes of recovery or change are just pipedreams, with no grounding in reality. Thailand does not deserve good people like you. One day somebody will wake up and wonder what happened... all they need do is look in the mirror, or open their mindless TV, or observe their brain-dead children struggle with the most basic common sense logic, and ask themselves how they allowed it to happen, because the reason is staring them in the face.

Leaving is what I dream about doing everyday... I only wish I was in a position to actually do it, and not only dream.

Maybe someday... Fingers crossed.

CS

Edited March 21, 2009 by CosmicSurfer

[loong]

I'm confused..

I had also committed the heinous crime of overstaying by one day. The Immigration Officer was in her element when she discovered that and spoke to and looked at me as if I had insulted her family. She then made me pay the 500B fine and had me sign as an Alleged Offender in her little book for naughty boys.

Are you on a visa or extension? If overstayed on a visa, you will get fined 500 Baht per day, it also means that you are in Thailand without the necessary permission as I can't see that you can extend on an overstay.

If you are on an extension and miss the 90 day report, it's a fixed fine not relating to the number of days.

[ballbreaker]

Why do people always wait till the last minute to take care of something so important. I generally process my extension 2-3 weeks prior to expiration.

Was the immigration officer really that bad. Since you overstayed she could have very easily given a 7 day extension to leave the country and then you would have to start the process all over. She did not but instead fined you and gave you the extension you requested.

Edited March 22, 2009 by ballbreaker

[harrry]

Was the immigration officer really that bad. Since you overstayed she could have very easily given a 7 day extension to leave the country and then you would have to start the process all over. She did not but instead fined you and gave you the extension you requested.

Or if she had been really nasty detained you and locked you up until youcould make arangements from inside the jail to buy an airline ticket and leave the country.

[tartempion]

Things here are on a irreversible downward slide, and hopes of recovery or change are just pipedreams, with no grounding in reality. Thailand does not deserve good people like you.

CS

Well spot on CS.

Every new day I live here I am more and more aware of this.

Unfortunately the OP has not gotten that far yet.

My turn has come to look down on those who run this place and unfortunately on those who represent them.

I will continue to be nice to the people sitting on the lower branches of the tree and being sh*tted upon though

[NanLaew]

Give the OP a break eh? We are all hard-nosed and cynical of Thai immigration policy but that's no excuse to break the OP's balls about something even the most cynical of us used to worry about a lot.

The ultimate plan would be to up-sticks and take the tribe to another, more foreigner friendly place. Unfortunately, unless money is no option and you are a childless couple, that option isn't as easy as it sounds.

[bumbui]

I thought that I had an understanding of the Thai Immigration system and its requirements after being here now for a couple of years but it seems not and I wonder if someone can answer the following questions:

I am on a retirement visa and have just renewed my annual at Kap Choeng. I previously had a multi entry visa which cost 3800B but this year I was told that it is no longer available and I had to have the standard visa at 1900B? If I want to leave the country to visit another country, say Cambodia or Lao, do I have to apply to an immigration office requesting permission to leave or can I do that at a border post on leaving?

If you are married I understood that you can apply or reapply having either 400,000B in a Thai bank for three months or more or a monthly pension of 65,000B. (Yesterday I was informed that if you are married then you only need a monthly pension of 40,000B?) If you are single then I understood you required 800,000B or a pension of 65,000B a month. Yet now I am told that the Thai Immigration Authorities want both the required level of savings and a monthly pension? Why and how can they change the requirements to suit their mood?

When you have been here for a couple of years then the chances are that you have built a house for your wife/girlfriend and are in the process of supporting her (and her extended family). You pay for the electricity, water, telephone, two mobile telephones, UBC, household bills, medical bills, feeding and clothing her and any other expense that may have arisen since you met. You have probably bought a car (or two) and a motorbike. Are paying for her motorbike and any other hire purchase agreements that she (or her family) may of entered into without a hope in hel_l of paying off. All in all you have probably made a substantial financial investment in Thailand.

So why are we always made to feel like second class citizens when reporting to Thai Immigration? When you arrive they speak to you with disdain and as if you are a criminal reporting to your probation officer. If you dare to arrive without all of the necessary documention in the exact provision to support your stay you are chastised and spoken to like a schoolchild.

When we went last week I had a letter from one bank stating that I had 665,689B in my account and a statement from another bank stating that I had over one million Baht in a long term savings account. Unfortunately however the statement, run off 5 days earlier, only ran up until February and now we were in March! They asked me for my bank books, which I had made the mistake of not taking for the first time, and then made me drive the four hour round trip back home and back to the Immigration office so that they could see that I had the required funds to allow me to stay.

What happens if they decide that you do not have the necessary financial clout? What happens to the house that you have paid to have built but can never own? Who pays for the electricity, water, telephones, UBC, food, household, medical bills then?

I had also committed the heinous crime of overstaying by one day. The Immigration Officer was in her element when she discovered that and spoke to and looked at me as if I had insulted her family. She then made me pay the 500B fine and had me sign as an Alleged Offender in her little book for naughty boys.

I do wish that Thailand would wake up to the fact that people like me pay an awful lot of money to stay in Thailand. I love Thailand and its people. I have a great respect for your King and Buddha and hope that I can stay here paying my way for many years to come. I just wish that I was appreciated more by the Thai authorities and was treated with the same respect that is demanded by them.

I never had problem with the immigratrion office KAP CHEUNG, very friendly an helpfull staff, the problem must be YOU

[ignis]

Simple renew early, then if there is any problem you have time to fix, or look at other options...

You can renew up to 3 months early !! I went on the 4th Feb, thankfully for the 5th year running there was no problem, so my extension is good till 26th March 2010

[TheWalkingMan]

My understanding of the immigration system is:

Many stops and starts with dead ends galore. Make sure you have a map from those who have gone before and remember, the rules up to interpretation.

TheWalkingMan

[JR Texas]

Things here are on a irreversible downward slide, and hopes of recovery or change are just pipedreams, with no grounding in reality. Thailand does not deserve good people like you.

CS

Well spot on CS.

Every new day I live here I am more and more aware of this.

Unfortunately the OP has not gotten that far yet.

My turn has come to look down on those who run this place and unfortunately on those who represent them.

I will continue to be nice to the people sitting on the lower branches of the tree and being sh*tted upon though

Totally agree...........it is an "irreversible downward slide." It started to accelerate w/ the Thaksin administration........now it has gone past the point of repair (at least in the short term).

Ignorance and xenophobia are a bad foundation on which to build a society. We can only hope that surrounding countries do not follow Thailand's lead (Myanmar aside.......they have already fallen into a bottomless pit).

[beechguy]

How do you get "Ignorance and xenophbia" out of this situation? The guy showed up unprepared and oblivious to the details he needed to know, and it's the Thai's fault? I would be willing to bet that majority of us have little or no problem getting our visa, extensions, and going on with life. Sure, one can run into the occasional individual that isn't helpful, but most of the time I read about someone having problems, it's situations like the op's, where they failed to prepare for their request.

Edited March 22, 2009 by beechguy

[CosmicSurfer]

How do you get "Ignorance and xenophbia" out of this situation? The guy showed up unprepared and oblivious to the details he needed to know, and it's the Thai's fault? I would be willing to bet that majority of us have little or no problem getting our visa, extensions, and going on with life. Sure, one can run into the occasional individual that isn't helpful, but most of the time I read about someone having problems, it's situations like the op's, where they failed to prepare for their request.

Yes, the OP referred to specific problems in his post, but the reasons behind that attitude is what I and others have been addressing.

Ignorance and xenophopbia come into play by the entirely dogmatic approach that Thais have to their Immigration system, and their attitude to both foreigners and their own people's desire to cohabit with non-Thais.

I've been here for 7 years, and I try to prepare for every eventuality when approaching immigration, and usually there are no problems (last time I was one photo short, causing a 300 baht cab ride and ridiculous waste of time). But it's their system and of course they can demand whatever they want.

The issue, however , revolves around how useful their requests are in reality. Do they really contribute to the process, or are they only set up as hurdles... Is there any logic to their requests, or their refusal to accept documents tendard? How do they conform to International standards, norms and treaties in their application of the rules? Are the regulations even legal and in conformity with their own Thai Constitution? Some of these issues have been discussed in great depth in other previous threads, so I won't go into then today.

For me, the issue becomes not have I prepared properly for the illogic I'm about to face, But rather, how much abuse becomes too much? When do I just give up and move on... and Most important... What kind of person do I want my children to grow up to be? Is life here benifiting and contibuting to their wellbeing and future life.. or am I limiting their opportunities and setting them up for the servitude and lack of imagination that is inherent to the majority of the population in the Feudal Meritaucracy that is the Thai social structure.

If the system here was logical and straight forward, would this Board even need to exisit? Would people be asking the same questions over and over and over again, only to get confusing and opposing answers, leading to only more questions? Would we constantly be scrambling to deduce that latest interpretation to regulations that are subject to changes on a whim, with the frequency of my babies diaper demands, or the regularity of a flatulant buffalo?

I think not.

CS

[Tod Daniels]

I too cannot understand the "its the thais fault" attitude which so many people cop after going to immigrations ill-prepared, and/or ignorant of any changes in either the rules or the interpretation/enforcement of them concerning foreigners staying in thailand.

I've been here over 4 years, and as I just turned 50 this year; I got my first annual extension based on retirement at Suan Plu in less than 40 minutes!!

That the O/P would take the time to post such an well thought out post but NOT do the simple research to continue his stay in thailand, says more for his whining after the fact than his ability to pre-act to a situation by preparing for it.

Last time I looked out my window, this was still thailand . The thais are free to draft, interpret and enforce the rules how they see fit.

That the O/P believes (in his mind anyway) he has made a "significant" contribution to the society by his incredible humanitarian efforts is really a moot point.

I am far from a 'champion' of either the thais or thailand and I don't agree with some of the oxymoronic rules here, BUT I follow them because I live in their country.

[ilyushin]

The Thai immigration has never had a uniformed way of doing things.

Toss of the coin.