But I Don't Give A Hoot !

[qualtrough]

I first encountered the Trink column in 1980. At that time he had several pages in the afternoon Bangkok World, and I believe he had his Saturday BKK Post full page spread then as well. The World featured pictures of dancers along with little anecdotes about them. Pretty remarkable for what was otherwise a regular newspaper. At that time my friends and I used to make fun of Trink for his cliches and, well-known Trinkisms. If you ever read his columns you know what I am referring too. Later it grew on me and I always looked forward to the Saturday paper. Remember, those were pre-Internet days, pre-cable TV days, pre-English radio days, so getting my hands on a paper was something eagerly awaited. I saw him making his rounds once or twice back then, and once later during one of the few times I have been to Pattaya. He has a very peculiar shape, you couldn't miss him (more anon), and always had his shirt open with the big owl medallion hanging around his neck. Following two steps behind him was a very stern looking Thai woman that I believe was his wife. BTW, even in 1980 I remember the Trink graffiti. The rumor was that it was Trink who did that, and I strongly suspect that was true. Fast forward to 92-93 and I was doing a part-time gig for the program guide for the forerunner of True (IBC?). One day I was assigned to go interview Bernard Trink! I did that at the Post building. He had a small office and still used a manual typewriter. He was pretty much shunned by all the other people there by that time. When he stood up I noticed that his pants were undone, that is what he did before sitting down. Here are the details on the peculiar body shape I mentioned earlier. Not exactly a pot belly, his front just started moving outward from his neck, reached its apex around his belly button, and then tapered back in. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I digress. Anyway, he explained that the owl medallion was given to him by a filipina singer, and that it was actually the symbol of the city of Athens. That was the origin of the Night Owl according to him. One of the things he told me was that his column had often been imitated and even copied, something I believe he mentioned in his columns from time to time. I must have registered some incredulity because he handed me a file that was filled with columns from papers around the world that bore a remarkable resemblance to his. Score for Trink! He also shared some of his hate mail, which was interesting to say the least. Love him or hate him, he was a guy who staked out a niche and did what he loved for more than 40 years, which is more than most of us can claim.

[Ulysses G.]

Love him or hate him, he was a guy who staked out a niche and did what he loved for more than 40 years, which is more than most of us can claim.

Very nice post!

[Lite Beer]

Ofensive post deleted.

[t.s]

However, I still wear a condom with every partner.

There's more than one?!

why shouln't there be? he's got the money.

[Ulysses G.]

True enough.

[polecat]

One of the things he told me was that his column had often been imitated and even copied

Yup. There used to be an appalling one in Chiang Mai called the Night Fowl. Hideous.

[LooseCannon]

That it is difficult for straight men to catch AIDS from vaginal sex.

It seems to me that - like many posters on Thai Visa - you are trying to start a fight about nothing. Trink did not "promote" unsafe sex. He always recommended condoms, but he still felt that it was difficult for heterosexual men to catch AIDS from vaginal sex.

Also, he was not comparing between women and men. He felt that homosexual (mostly anal) sex and drug needles were the most common ways for men to catch the disease. He did not think that anyone's lives were any less valuable than anyone else's, but he felt that the public had been misled about some of the characteristics of the disease.

He also felt that HIV was not the cause of AIDS, and, at that time, there were a number of researchers who agreed with him. I do not and did not agree with him about that and it was not mainstream thinking, but there were eminant scientists that did promote these theories. Also, a lot of reporting was being done at that time about alternate AIDs possibilities.

"That it is difficult for straight men to catch AIDS from vaginal sex". - no it is actually fairly easy, if a male (no condom) has vaginal sex with an HIV infected women the probability is 1 in 500-1000 ... pretty horrific odds.

These odds are reduced significantly when either one or both parties are suffering from an STD that causes open sores or breaks in the skin (e.g., syphilis, herpes, chancroid) or does not cause breaks in the skin (e.g., chlamydia, gonorrhea). Care to hazard a guess at the percentage of Thai prostitutes that have one or more of these STD's?

There does not appear to be any researcher that is willing to state a probability under these conditions, but "death sentence" springs to mind.

"He always recommended condoms....." - absolute unadulterated rubbish. This statement is complete bullsh*t!

In less than a minute a simple search using Google found this little gem from Feb 7 1998 (this was the first one I opened!)....

Heading - "HIV not sexually transmitted" The article quotes a piece of research done by a certain Dr Peter Duesberg (professor of molecular and cell biology at the University of California at Berkeley)

Quote - "Moreover, unwanted pregnancies and venereal diseases, but not HIV infections, have increased significantly in the US since HIV has been known. This argues directly against sexual transmission of HIV."

Quote - "Sexual transmission is so inefficient because there is no free, non-neutralised HIV anywhere in antibody-positive persons, particularly not in Africa."

Condoms, safe sex or any type of warning are not mentioned once in this column.

"He also felt that HIV was not the cause of AIDS....." - yes, he was quite happy to propagate this tripe with no disclaimer regarding condom usage & safe sex.

"It seems to me that - like many posters on Thai Visa - you are trying to start a fight about nothing." - you make a fallacious statement expect to be challenged. If you want somebody to agree with you I am sure that there are plenty of service girls that will oblige for a fee.

[PattayaParent]

"That it is difficult for straight men to catch AIDS from vaginal sex". - no it is actually fairly easy, if a male (no condom) has vaginal sex with an HIV infected women the probability is 1 in 500-1000 ... pretty horrific odds.

So you're saying you've got to shag 1,000 women without a condoom on to get infected with HIV. How many do you get through in a night?

[Ulysses G.]

"That it is difficult for straight men to catch AIDS from vaginal sex". - no it is actually fairly easy, if a male (no condom) has vaginal sex with an HIV infected women the probability is 1 in 500-1000 ... pretty horrific odds.

So you're saying you've got to shag 1,000 women without a condom on to get infected with HIV. How many do you get through in a night?

It is difficult for men to catch it with vaginal sex according to doctors who are experts on the subject.

[PattayaParent]

"That it is difficult for straight men to catch AIDS from vaginal sex". - no it is actually fairly easy, if a male (no condom) has vaginal sex with an HIV infected women the probability is 1 in 500-1000 ... pretty horrific odds.

So you're saying you've got to shag 1,000 women without a condom on to get infected with HIV. How many do you get through in a night?

It is difficult for men to catch it with vaginal sex according to doctors who are experts on the subject.

Yes I know Ulysses, but his point is it's not impossible. It seems from the odds though that if you shag 1,000 different women without a condom then you are certain to become HIV infected.

I don't know about you guys but I'll make sure I stop at 999 'cos I don't want to take any chances.

[Ulysses G.]

I have said over and over again that doctors say that is is DIFFICULT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

Also, Trink did tell readers to use condoms on a regular basis, but that does not mean he said it every single week.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I agree with Ulysses that Trink often recommended condom use, and every single time he'd mention that that would be to prevent pregnancy and STDs but not Aids.

HOWEVER, that's no excuse to promote his own oddball medical theories over and over again ad vomitum, especially at times that people were dying left right and center from Aids. Along with all the other regurgitated crap that reliably found its way into his page/column. Stupid Burma Shave rhymes, stupid jokes, stupid 'oxymorons', stupid whining on whatever is out of stock at Foodland, stupid acronyms immediately followed by the acronym spelled out every single time thus making the acronym completely useless..

God I miss it.

( By the way, did we actually go 6 pages without the word demimondaines? )

[polecat]

Pity this has turned into a barroom debate about how you catch HIV/AIDS.

I preferred the barroom debate on whether yellow trousers automatically render you a bad columnist.

(I'm with the yesses, by the way.)

[Ulysses G.]

HOWEVER, that's no excuse to promote his own oddball medical theories over and over again ad vomitum, especially at times that people were dying left right and center from Aids.

Actually, I have always agreed with this, but also never thought that anyone would be dumb enough to plan their sex life according to Trink's theories.

[Razzler1973]

His views on HIV/Aids aside I do remember reading his column, was never into that whole scene much but still read his piece, I just remember him being so well known so whenever I had the paper I'd read to see what the fuss was all about, never really sure I knew to be honest

[LooseCannon]

HOWEVER, that's no excuse to promote his own oddball medical theories over and over again ad vomitum, especially at times that people were dying left right and center from Aids.

Actually, I have always agreed with this, but also never thought that anyone would be dumb enough to plan their sex life according to Trink's theories.

Plenty of dullards & dimwits washing ashore every year in Thailand. Many in denial about the dangers of HIV, just waiting to have their belief reinforced by reading this sort of pseudoscience. This would then enable them to 'holiday' without a care in the world. If Trink had restricted himself to commenting on whether Dang or Noi gave a better headjob, he could have been considered a harmless fool. Unfortunately, when he became an Aids denier & started propagating his beliefs, he became a dangerous fool.

I wonder how many where "dumb enough to plan their sex life according to Trink's theories"?

[Ulysses G.]

Everyone that I knew just laughed at him for many of his beliefs, but they all rushed out to buy the Saturday paper to see what he would come up with every week.

[sabaijai]

Pierrot, you've just read a book about him right? I'm confused as to why you said his last columns were in 1993 - i would have said more like about ten years later. No?

In December 2003, Trink's column was dropped without fanfare by a new editor, who decided it was time for Trink to go. There was no announcement that it was ending, nor any farewell party for the long time columnist. The "Nite Owl" column simply vanished. Trink still writes book reviews for the Post and for a time did his own web site, but he is now more or less retired.

source wiki

Correct. He still comes to the Post newsroom regularly, still types on a manual.

[rixalex]

I wonder how many where "dumb enough to plan their sex life according to Trink's theories"?

As i've already said though, anybody that dumb would be quite capable of doing something stupid with or without the help of Mr Trink and his theories.

What next? Should we outlaw the wristwatch to protect dimwits from telling the time whilst holding a hot cup of coffee?

[sabaijai]

P.S. On a another sort-of-related topic.....Is there anyone still around on the forum who actually remembers Tiger and Tiger's bar? Or am I the last one?

I remember Tiger from when he could walk and when he couldn't and his bar (on Suriwongse if I remember correctly) and also Lucy's Tiger Den when his widow moved it to Silom. I also know quite a few other people of that era who are still around.

I was in Lucy's Tiger Den in the early 80's, a friend and I ordered his chili beans and Tiger went crazy, shouting that the beans were only a come on and were not meant to be served.

The wall behind the bar was covered with bad checks that Tiger had accepted from various patrons claiming a temporary shortage of funds.

Lucy's Tiger Den gets a bit of a write up in Monika Jensen-Stevenson’s NF book “Kiss the Boys Goodbye” and I recently heard there is a book out on Tiger.

My geography may be a bit off here, but was Lucy’s Tiger Den on Silom Road almost opposite the entrance to Patpong.?

Yep. In the late 70s it was free beef stew alternating with free spaghetti every Friday. I seem to recall the nickname for that night was 'hobo feed' but don't recall if that was what some customers called it or how it was advertised.

[bertlamar]

he didn't get booted and his column reduced because of mgt PC blah blah blah although probably didn't help. by the time near the end, his column was 3/4 about shaving foam, the risk of fire at the Patpong market, letters to people unknown, references to damiones or whatever that word was he used to describe nightworkers, and a fairly limited number of free pigs on spits etc at various bars.

It took up 1/2 a page where he could have been talking as he did previously about good places to go out, rates, etc etc.

His theories were about on par with what most whoremongers would love to believe (the women all choose to work, the AIDS thing is mostly exagerated etc etc) but I doubt many people ever read it and thought yeah, I am going to change my mind and go out and start shagging bareback all over town.

It just reached the point where it was frigging boring to read the same column every week for a year. 1/2 a page was torture, a full page would have been like the same column twice....per week.

[dbrenn]

he didn't get booted and his column reduced because of mgt PC blah blah blah although probably didn't help. by the time near the end, his column was 3/4 about shaving foam, the risk of fire at the Patpong market, letters to people unknown, references to damiones or whatever that word was he used to describe nightworkers, and a fairly limited number of free pigs on spits etc at various bars.

It took up 1/2 a page where he could have been talking as he did previously about good places to go out, rates, etc etc.

His theories were about on par with what most whoremongers would love to believe (the women all choose to work, the AIDS thing is mostly exagerated etc etc) but I doubt many people ever read it and thought yeah, I am going to change my mind and go out and start shagging bareback all over town.

It just reached the point where it was frigging boring to read the same column every week for a year. 1/2 a page was torture, a full page would have been like the same column twice....per week.

Agreed. He was boring. 'Nuff said.

Tilac bar has changed the colour of its toilet paper and is serving suds that are two degrees warmer than usual, but deadbeats can get free food there tonight because Noi's mother has a birthday and has just bought a new buffalo with the proceeds from selling her youngest daughter and ripping off her loser boyfriend .... blah, blah, blah. ... The demimondaines in Soi Cowboy are uglier than they were last year, but not half as as ugly as a grossly fat underpaid pseudojournalist like yours truly - what's that all about, I wonder, etc, etc.

Who gives a hoot anyway. He's gone for good

[LooseCannon]

I wonder how many where "dumb enough to plan their sex life according to Trink's theories"?

As i've already said though, anybody that dumb would be quite capable of doing something stupid with or without the help of Mr Trink and his theories.

What next? Should we outlaw the wristwatch to protect dimwits from telling the time whilst holding a hot cup of coffee?

Funny you should say that, although this particular dimwit was holding a beer.

Certainly don't think it should be outlawed as long as I am free to ridicule & mock.

[Gary A]

What started out as a discussion of the old Trink Page has turned into a debate regarding AIDS. Anyone in their right mind accepts that regardless of what causes it, it is certainly a danger and precautions should be taken. Anyone who relies on a newspaper column that expresses any kind of opinion and takes it as fact is not too bright.

[Ulysses G.]

Agreed! Especially a newspaper column by Trink.

[LooseCannon]

... Anyone who relies on a newspaper column that expresses any kind of opinion and takes it as fact is not too bright.

Agreed! Especially a newspaper column by Trink.

Someone here seemed suitably impressed .....

...... he was someone in Bangkok. For a nobody, he's quite a role model.

Anybody have a daughter with journalistic ambitions? Uncle Bernie the role model.

[Plus]

You are still on the good old Trink?

These days people go to clubs where Trink can't pass the bouncer. As a nighlife reporter that sucks.

And very few people, comparatively, would ever step foot in some Pink Pussy for local whore's birthday party.

Times a-changing. Trink just got old.

Also much of his column in later years consisted of e-mail jokes going rounds on the Internet. It was ok in the 90s but pretty lame for a column now.

Hope he is not too bitter and starving, but if I ever met him I'd keep my distance, he is a relic of a bygone era, out of touch with reality.

[andyc2006]

As i recall it, he didn't actually advocate unprotected sex, but he did frequently mention his feelings that the dangers for men of contracting AIDS through hetrosexual sex had been exaggerated... come to think of it, that is a bit like advocating unprotected sex isn't it?

No, it's nothing like it.

I'm also of the opinion that the risk of HIV for a man engaging in heterosexual relations is very exaggerated, but at the same time, I think it's a good idea to cover up to avoid other diseases, pregnancy, and because the risk for women isn't very exaggerated (ie, you may have it, not know it, and in that case, you're very capable of passing it to a woman, easily).

Nobody admits it because what purpose would it serve to do so?

Some of us strive to be accurate in our claims, on a regular basis, even when it's not popular, but beyond that, there's a credibility issue.

Run around screaming that the sky is falling, and when it doesn't, nobody will listen to you when you tell them not to step onto the street in front of an oncoming bus.

No different than exaggerating the dangers of drug use -- once kids see that they're exaggerated, they wrongly assume that all the warnings are b.s.

If you don't watch your signal-to-noise ratio, everything you say gets ignored.

If you lose credibility, everything you say gets ignored.

It would just encourage certain men to be more careless.

Valid opinion, with which I disagree. The guy who'll do this doesn't need a reason to do it, though he may later cite the reason to justify it.

[rixalex]

As i recall it, he didn't actually advocate unprotected sex, but he did frequently mention his feelings that the dangers for men of contracting AIDS through hetrosexual sex had been exaggerated... come to think of it, that is a bit like advocating unprotected sex isn't it?

No, it's nothing like it.

Disagree. Indirectly, i think it is, but as i and many others have already stated on this thread, anyone who makes potentially life-threatening decisions based on the ramblings of a columnist, is obviously a complete dimwit. Let's not worry about them too much because they are likely to come a cropper no matter what advice they are given.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, I have always agreed with this, but also never thought that anyone would be dumb enough to plan their sex life according to Trink's theories.

Everyone that I knew just laughed at him for many of his beliefs, but they all rushed out to buy the Saturday paper to see what he would come up with every week.

Agreed! Especially a newspaper column by Trink.

Someone here seemed suitably impressed .....

Not if you read the thread carefully...