How Many Bargirls In Bkk/thailand?

[LaoPo]

A gentleman who has seen his gf in Thailand 4 times in the past year is financially supporting her, otherwise, so he fears, she's going to the bars to work in order to raise her little daughter, since she doesn't have any money...

The gf is living with her parents, so he decided to support her monthly instead of her let go to work (I don't know if -again-)

I advised and warned him, telling him...the old story...but many people attacked me that he was 'old and wise' enough to know for himself...blah blah.

Question:

are there any figures in TH about the more or less real number of BG's working around in BKK, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui and other places.

I told him there were hundreds of thousands, but I might be wrong since I stopped counting

If I take, let's say 1 square KM in Pattaya alone, what would you say...?

5.000, more? or less?

Appreciate your answers, since this gentleman doesn't believe 'the old story'; but than again, he's been in TH already 4 times, right?

[britmaveric]

Who knows? Used google and found this from 1997:

THAILAND

Estimates of women in prostitution range from 300,000 to 2.8 million, of which a third are minors and children. Thai women are also in prostitution in many countries in Asia, Australia, Europe and the US.

4.6 million Thai men regularly, and 500,000 foreign tourists annually, use prostituted women and girls.

Some estimates put the number of under-age prostitutes in Thailand at 400,000 (Asiaweek, February 7, 1997)"

[Humphrey Bear]

A gentleman who has seen his gf in Thailand 4 times in the past year is financially supporting her, otherwise, so he fears, she's going to the bars to work in order to raise her little daughter, since she doesn't have any money...

The gf is living with her parents, so he decided to support her monthly instead of her let go to work (I don't know if -again-)

I advised and warned him, telling him...the old story...but many people attacked me that he was 'old and wise' enough to know for himself...blah blah.

Question:

are there any figures in TH about the more or less real number of BG's working around in BKK, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui and other places.

I told him there were hundreds of thousands, but I might be wrong since I stopped counting

If I take, let's say 1 square KM in Pattaya alone, what would you say...?

5.000,  more? or less?

Appreciate your answers, since this gentleman doesn't believe 'the old story'; but than again, he's been in TH already 4 times, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not just the main tourist centres, where the bar-girls are obvious and looking for foreigners. You will find 'comfort houses' in every district of Thailand, catering for the locals. And then the richer Thais have their 'mia noi' (lesser wife) or several to take away the pain. it is a part of the culture here and is not really understood by most foreigners, nd some residents, who think of the whole system as being prostitution as known in the West. This is not quite the case - one 'adopts' a girl or two and helps support them - they in turn oblige with favours. It's a two-way street, walked by all but the anal-retentive NGO types who declaim loudly against it.

You do not own another person, if you wish to support them, fine. But you cannot dictate their whole life, solely because you have spare money which you give to them.

[chanchao]

LaoPo: Why bother? In the end it comes down to this: He's in love with a bargirl/prostitute and there's nothing you can say or do that will make him change his mind; specific hard evidence aside.

Statistics don't work on people who are in love/lust.

Chances are it'll even work out fine; plenty examples of that too, and apparently those men aren't too bothered about the status of their spouse: live and let live, up to them. Most thais take this attitude so I think so can you.

I know plenty of bargirls who receive some/regular/a lot of money from overseas but still work in bars. And you know what, that's exactly what I'd recommend them to do, unless of course they're actually uncomfortable doing bar work. It completely runs the spectrum of 'what a sucker, I don't care' to feeling genuinely troubled by it and trying to stick to non-prostitution related activities.. And even actually quitting bar work of course, and go do something else. I do tend to think though that 'go sit at home at the farm next to a fixed line phone so hubby can call and check' is a non-starter. I think the best ones do quit but manage to start another line of work.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

(Actually I think all long-distance + cross cultural relationships are a non-starter. )

[LaoPo]

Humphrey Bear,

Maybe I have expressed myself wrong in the original message. I am not questioning the culture in TH; I know about the TH culture and that the same is indeed mostly misunderstood in the West.

I know and realize for more than 25 years that the Westerns didn't bring the 'Angels' into temptation, but that it is hidden in the Thai culture already since centuries; it only became more into the picture so to say, since the the US Navy 'landed' at the shores of Pattaya during the Vietnam war. Did you know that the best kept secrets of the Navy (landing at the shores of Pattay) was widely spread and rumoured in TH, and hundreds of buses followed their 'noses' to Pattaya filled with ladies?

It was merely meant (apart from my question about the No. of bargirls in BKK/TH) to 'warn' the gentleman if he knew what he was doing, sending monthly financial support to his gf.

Maybe I did wrong by doing so since there is indeed nothing bad about doing so; just wanted to ask him if he realized that there are thousands of Farang guys doing this and that the girls, after saying goodby at BKK airport, full of tears of sadness, are back in the bar the same night.

But, I am not trying to moralize whatsoever, and again, I apologize if I you misunderstood me.

[LaoPo]

Apart from the above, I forgot to mention that this particular gentleman, after visiting his gf in TH, 4 times, invited her to come to Europe.

She applied for a tourist-Visa and this was turned down 2 seperate times by the Embassy and the Immigration (at a later stage) of this European country.

It will be extremely difficult for him now to ever invite his gf and 'do' something back for her. That's sad

At this moment however, I still didn't get an answer to my initial question:

How many bargirls are there in BKK/TH?

.

[chonabot]

I would hazard at a guess there could be anywhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 "workers" within various sectors of the p4p industry.

What I'm wondering is , if you can get this "point" across to "this particular gentleman" , what is the message you hope he will receive?

[chanchao]

Is your gentleman a close friend of yours? If not, why side with him and not with the girl?

And as to the number of bargirls, I get the feeling you want to restrict this to girls in tourist areas right? Perhaps restrict it only to areas where Western tourists go, so not including places like Had Yai right? I don't think there's a single number, it depends on who you count.

For girls in the tourist scene, perhaps 30,000 nationwide? Just a wild guess, I won't get religious about it when someone thinks it's half that or 10 times that.

[poolcleaner]

Apart from the above, I forgot to mention that this particular gentleman, after visiting his gf in TH, 4 times, invited her to come to Europe.

She applied for a tourist-Visa and this was turned down 2 seperate times by the Embassy and the Immigration (at a later stage) of this European country.

It will be extremely difficult for him now to ever invite his gf and 'do' something back for her. That's sad

At this moment however, I still didn't get an answer to my initial question:

How many bargirls are there in BKK/TH?

.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At last count 876,443.............................but that's only the girls I've 'known'

[lampard10]

A gentleman who has seen his gf in Thailand 4 times in the past year is financially supporting her, otherwise, so he fears, she's going to the bars to work in order to raise her little daughter, since she doesn't have any money...

The gf is living with her parents, so he decided to support her monthly instead of her let go to work (I don't know if -again-)

I advised and warned him, telling him...the old story...but many people attacked me that he was 'old and wise' enough to know for himself...blah blah.

Question:

are there any figures in TH about the more or less real number of BG's working around in BKK, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui and other places.

I told him there were hundreds of thousands, but I might be wrong since I stopped counting

If I take, let's say 1 square KM in Pattaya alone, what would you say...?

5.000,  more? or less?

Appreciate your answers, since this gentleman doesn't believe 'the old story'; but than again, he's been in TH already 4 times, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it depends on who you listen to those against; about 179,946,980 or those for 37

[Pink Mist]

lets see how long this thread takes to start to deteriorate, it closes as soon as it does.

as to an accurate figure, at best a guess.

[Doctor John]

Question:

are there any figures in TH about the more or less real number of BG's working around in BKK, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui and other places.

I told him there were hundreds of thousands, but I might be wrong since I stopped counting

And what would you tell him if you knew the exact number was 500,017 instead of 395,873 ?

Does he send money to 500,017 or 395,873 or just 1 ?

Anyway good luck to the girl. If your friend was willing to travel thousands of miles to take advantage of another persons financial situation in a country that has no state benefits, then I think he can send the girl some money to atone for his sin.

[chico]

does it depend on the number of girls working in that profession, either forced by not getting any other job or maybe even liking it?

does it matter for your friend? you did not mention her asking him to send, but rather he wants to do it - so let him do!

maybe he get cheated, maybe it is the real and good thing? not your, but his problem - give him a chance to find out for himself!

[Marmite the Dog]

If you offer enough money, I reckon every woman would get her knickers off, so I reckon there's about 30,000,000 in Thailand.

[gburns57au]

I believe the question was how many bars girls...not girls who have sex for money...the number of bar workers does number in the hundreds of thousands.

If you add on all the freelancers and others who sell themselves outside of the bars, then even a guess is not possible.

On the point of girls staying out of the bar....my girl quit the bar last year after I met her but before I made any commitment to her, She is working in a market stall with her sister to make some money and I send her a small amount so that she is a bit more comfortable. Will she go back to the bar....I dont know, if she does there is little I can do about it but for the moment she not interested in going back.

[gburns57au]

I believe the question was how many bars girls...not girls who have sex for money...the number of bar workers does number in the hundreds of thousands.

If you add on all the freelancers and others who sell themselves outside of the bars, then even a guess is not possible.

On the point of girls staying out of the bar....my girl quit the bar last year after I met her but before I made any commitment to her, She is working in a market stall with her sister to make some money and I send her a small amount so that she is a bit more comfortable. Will she go back to the bar....I dont know, if she does there is little I can do about it but for the moment she not interested in going back.

The question was, how many bar girls... I said, it is 'like' asking...

Just for the record.

I sincerely wish you luck with your girlfriend. If she feels secure with you, I doubt very much she'll ever go back. I think a great many of these girls just need a break in life... If you can give her that I for one think it is great!

Thank you kind Sir...

[DJ Pat]

Any of you ever heard of "Free sex"? Thats a Thai phenomenon where nobody can have strings-free sex without some kind of payment.

[chico]

Any of you ever heard of "Free sex"? Thats a Thai phenomenon where nobody can have strings-free sex without some kind of payment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

does it rain today in bkk?

[Doctor John]

If you offer enough money, I reckon every woman would get her knickers off, so I reckon there's about 30,000,000 in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And about 30 Million in Uk also.

[kat]

Who knows? Used google and found this from 1997:

THAILAND

Estimates of women in prostitution range from 300,000 to 2.8 million, of which a third are minors and children. Thai women are also in prostitution in many countries in Asia, Australia, Europe and the US.

4.6 million Thai men regularly, and 500,000 foreign tourists annually, use prostituted women and girls.

Some estimates put the number of under-age prostitutes in Thailand at 400,000 (Asiaweek, February 7, 1997)"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and these are old quotes since 1997. All sources are in agreement that Thai prostitution has increased exponentially, both domestic and transnational sex work.

There is an old 1994 quote from the police department which estimated 200,00 registered sex workers in the country. This is widely known to be deliberately underestimated, to hide the real quantity of their source of income from kickbacks. There are no firm figures because of a high rate of freelance sex work, but recent NGO estimates start at approximately 2 million. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is most likely higher if sex work has been on the increase since 1997.

If you offer enough money, I reckon every woman would get her knickers off, so I reckon there's about 30,000,000 in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please don't use your woeful attitudes about women to surmise the nature of "every" woman, as it's obvious your experience is limited.

[meemiathai]

If you offer enough money, I reckon every woman would get her knickers off, so I reckon there's about 30,000,000 in Thailand.

Please don't use your woeful attitudes about women to surmise the nature of "every" woman, as it's obvious your experience is limited.

Jai yen, Kat. I don't think it's meant to be serious.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is most likely higher if sex work has been on the increase since 1997.

????

[kat]

Thanks Meemia, but I'm a latin woman, not Thai. Jai yen is not a cultural value of mine. And anyway, why would you seek to regulate something I said as opposed to anyone else? Your statement can be said about any comment on this forum.

And you posted question marks to my statement about prostitution estimates increasing by all accounts since 1997.

So, what is your question?

[kreon]

and how many female 18+yr old students would there be here in thailand

[kat]

Kreon:

I'm not sure if your question is directed at me, or what point you are trying to make with such a question, and I don't want to assume.

What is your point?

[meemiathai]

Thanks Meemia, but I'm a latin woman, not Thai. Jai yen is not a cultural value of mine. And anyway, why would you seek to regulate something I said as opposed to anyone else? Your statement can be said about any comment on this forum.

Not sure what you meant by "Jai yen is not a cultural value of mine". It doesn't matter anyway. I was simply trying to explain that what that poster said wasn't really meant to degrade women and asking you not to be angry.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is most likely higher if sex work has been on the increase since 1997.

This sentence on its own does not make sense. You did not say anything that has proved "sex work has been on the increase since 1997", did you?

[kat]

Thanks Meemia, but I'm a latin woman, not Thai. Jai yen is not a cultural value of mine. And anyway, why would you seek to regulate something I said as opposed to anyone else? Your statement can be said about any comment on this forum.

Not sure what you meant by "Jai yen is not a cultural value of mine". It doesn't matter anyway. I was simply trying to explain that what that poster said wasn't really meant to degrade women and asking you not to be angry.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is most likely higher if sex work has been on the increase since 1997.

This sentence on its own does not make sense. You did not say anything that has proved "sex work has been on the increase since 1997", did you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok. I'm sorry to get defensive with you But I do disagree about the poster's intent to degrade or not. We don't know his intent and only have his comment, which is degrading.

I didn't say anything that "proved" sex work in Thailand increased since 1997, but do I need to pull out references? Come on, anyone who lives here for any length of time knows that to be the case. You're just busting my chops , but I can respect that.

There have been several studies that have cited an increase. Let's see, the ones off the top of my head while I sit here:

several months ago, this was reported in the English press here. The research was done by Thai academics and researchers.

Just about any recent research book on the sex trade here. One that springs to mind (I don't know the title verbatim and I'm not at home): The transnational sex trade - or something or other. It's currently on sale at book stores here in BKK (blue cover).

a Thai study that stated up to 30-50% of Thai unviersity students were involved in sex trade (but I heard of this second-hand).

A whole ream of research by the UN and Unicef, whose references I will gladly supply on request here or by PM (This stuff is at home).

Just get creative with google yourself and see what comes up if you think I'm full of it. Or simply read the local press on a regular basis.

Edited because I bungled the quote function

Edited January 19, 2005 by kat

[britmaveric]

This sentence on its own does not make sense. You did not say anything that has proved "sex work has been on the increase since 1997", did you?

Think you have to be thick to debate if numbers haven't increased since 97!

[kat]

Brit, you're back!

Actually, I was just going to mention you. My first comment about numbers increasing was based on Brits (edit: Britmaveric's) 1997 reference. In addition, I mentioned more current NGO estimates being at around the same high estimate for 1997 - approx 2 million.

If that was an estimate for 2 million, and all sources are in agreement that numbers have increased, quite dramatically for that matter, then my logic is that real current numbers must have also exceeded 2 million. By far, in my opinion.

Edited January 19, 2005 by kat

[britmaveric]

Brit, you're  back! 

Actually, I was just going to mention you.  My first comment about numbers increasing was based on Brits (edit: Britmaveric's) 1997 reference.  In addition, I mentioned more current NGO estimates being at around the same high estimate for 1997 - approx 2 million.

If that was an estimate for 2 million, and all sources are in agreement that numbers have increased, quite dramatically for that matter, then my logic is that real current numbers must have also exceeded 2 million.  By far, in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its really hardy to quantify- you have people constantly in/out of the trade. Its like asking someone how many crumbs in a loaf of bread?