Woman Mauled To Death By 3 Pit Bull Terriers, 3 Wounded

[Old Man River]

Here you go old man river - some facts...

The American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org/index.html) provides temperament testing for dog breeds and provides a passing score for the entire breed based on the percentage of passed over failed within total number of that particular breed tested.

As of Dec 2008, the American Pit Bull Terrier has a current passing rate of 85.3%; Golden Retriver passes at 84.6%

APBT type dogs make wonderful, loving, and very loyal companions. It is important, however, to understand the breed's nature, to provide a structured environment, and to establish a positive leadership role. In order to do so, every APBT owner must understand the original purpose of the breed and respect its limit and potential. I agree with DLock that you wont soon see that in Thailand but why not start by punishing the deed rather than the breed.

Check out Otherstuff1957's link. Over a 24 year period in the US and Canada, Pit Bull terriers were responsible for 1,110 attacks doing bodily harm compared to a grand total of 6 (six) for golden retrievers. Also, there were 72 more for Pit Bull mixes. They didn't list any attacks by golden retriever mixes.

Really, these are overwhelming statistics. I know, you will say that all of these Pit Bull attacks were by untrained Pit Bulls, and that could be true, I wouldn't know. Still, 1, 110 to 6 says something.

[KhunOr]

TOP 5

1. Labrador Retriever 92.0%

2. Schipperke 91.9%

3. Belgian Malinois 91.2%

4= English Bull Terrier 91.2%

4= Curly Coated Retriever 91.2%

Other breeds mentioned in this thread:

APBT 85.3%

Staffy 88%

Rottweiler 83%

German Shepherd 83.7%

German Shepherd 83.7%

Oops, slight amendments to my own post (highlighted)

TOP 5

1. Labrador Retriever 92.0%

2. Schipperke 91.9%

3. Belgian Malinois 91.5%

4= English Bull Terrier 91.2%

4= Curly Coated Retriever 91.2%

Other breeds mentioned in this thread:

APBT 85.3%

Staffordshire Terrier 88%

Amstaff 83.9%

Rottweiler 83%

German Shepherd 83.7%

[DLock]

Well THANKYOU Tigs, thankyou for your kind words. Its interesting you seem to have picked my situation fairly well, whilst farangcravings is beating away at his little member with some crazed viggor!

. Its probably a good thing that old grandad has passed on, he would of gutted and made slippers out of the filthy creature & he would of done the same with farangcravings if he was man enough to back some of his comments up, but I doubt he would, we all know what the keyboard warriors are like.

I stand by my comments and it seems now your only defense is now to call me childish names which just confirms my previous posting anyway I can back up my comments and aint no keyboard warrior hiding behind a computer

Anytime you want to find me its real easy, Blue Sky Bar on the moat in Chiang Mai

Gotta side with FarangCravings on this one.

You don't "try" a pitbull. You admitted you had heard about them, yet you bought one anyway, did not train the dog and let it run with the pack. What did you think was going to happen?

It's people like you Neverdie, that should never own a pitbull. You give the dog and the breed a bad name because of your ignorance and stubbornness. In the end you lost a goat and some chickens, but you also killed a dog that didn't do anything wrong. You did by getting one and letting it loose on the farm.

On one hand people are saying its good the dog killed the Owner here in Thailand...yet they hold you up as an example of someone who should know pitbulls? You should be held up as an example of exactly what sort of person should not be allowed to own one and a prime reason for pitbull attacks.

You were very lucky. You could have been responsible for another persons death...not the dog...YOU.

DLOCK,

What planet are you from, in which part of my initial post did I mention that the dog had not been trained? In which part of it did I tell you that it had been left to roam with 'the pack'?? I didnt say any of that.

None of the dogs on the property are untrained, none of them roam the property & I can tell you that farmers all around the world are constantly on the look out for new dogs to work & with that in mind & after having sampled many breeds of dogs I would have to agree with those that posted previously that stated that the pit bulls are an extremely stupid dog & during the time that we had this dog I was not overly impressed. Many people could learn a trick or two from good farmers who probably have some of the best trained dogs, you should take some time out to go and have a look, it may stop you from making such stupid comments.

Farangcravings, I should of guessed that you were a bar stool hero, it sounds like you spend many countless hours offering advice up in CM over a few dozen beers or so....thanks for the laugh

I highly doubt your dog was trained in proper obedience by a qualified pitbull trainer. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

So your dog wasn't running with the other dogs. Was it chained up all day or caged?

Pitbulls are very smart - maybe you had the runt of the litter or you are a poor "trainer". The only people who have said they are stupid haven't owned one....oh, and you.

Australian farmers don't need to "try" dogs that they know are bad - there are many purpose bred working farm dogs. I've owned Border Collies and a Blue Heeler and seen them work. They are great dogs because that's what they are bred for. I know enough about farm dogs to not want to try a pitbull around farm animals....and so did you before you got it.

In fact, what were you "trying" it for when you bought the dog? Feel free to tell us more.

We all make mistakes. You made a big one that cost the life of some animals and your dog. You were lucky that time but you were 100% to blame in "trying" a dog you knew to be unsuitable. But even worse - you used your poor judgment in blaming the dog and giving pitbulls a bad name. Son, you screwed up. Accepting blame is part of growing up...you should try it sometimes.

If I want advise on raising goats or chickens, I'll drop you a PM, but on pitbulls...probably not. Your posts have shown that you really don't have a clue.

Carry on.

[TAWP]

"Saluki 68.9%"

Indeed, had neighbors with 2 when I was young and my mom (being a dog person) told us she didn't like that breed. 2 years later the oldest son in the family (11 at the time) was badly bitten in the face and have to have a multitude of stitches.

[KhunOr]

My summing up of this very long thread is this:

APBTs are not a breed with the best temperament to begin with. To be fair though, the ATTS score of 85.3% is not too shabby. However the fact that APBTs show up statistically all over the world as the #1 attackers surely proves the point that their owners must bear the brunt of the blame for their poor reputation - due almost certainly to poor training and/or abuse of the dogs. There is a strong case for either special rules for ownership (rigidly enforced), or banning the breed. I can't see the former happening in Thailand (sadly).

[tommybkk]

Time and time again, these defenders of pit bulls are pointing to all sorts of "owner delivered" training. In Thailand, this type of minutae of training just doesn't exist.

Therefore, you have ill trained owners keeping ill trained dogs. As a result, Pit Bulls should be banned in Thailand, for all of the reasons cited above.

Anyone who lives in Thailand knows that dogs run wild here. There is a fine line distinction between what is an "owned dog" and what is a stray or "soi dog."

I agree with the comments that so far, very few pit bulls are running free as strays. It will probably stay this way, but if pit bulls are let into the stray population, who knows what kind of havoc they will reek.

I agree with you, people with no knowledge about the APBT shouldn't keep a dog like that on their property.

[orangezeke]

Here you go old man river - some facts...

The American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org/index.html) provides temperament testing for dog breeds and provides a passing score for the entire breed based on the percentage of passed over failed within total number of that particular breed tested.

As of Dec 2008, the American Pit Bull Terrier has a current passing rate of 85.3%; Golden Retriver passes at 84.6%

APBT type dogs make wonderful, loving, and very loyal companions. It is important, however, to understand the breed's nature, to provide a structured environment, and to establish a positive leadership role. In order to do so, every APBT owner must understand the original purpose of the breed and respect its limit and potential. I agree with DLock that you wont soon see that in Thailand but why not start by punishing the deed rather than the breed.

Check out Otherstuff1957's link. Over a 24 year period in the US and Canada, Pit Bull terriers were responsible for 1,110 attacks doing bodily harm compared to a grand total of 6 (six) for golden retrievers. Also, there were 72 more for Pit Bull mixes. They didn't list any attacks by golden retriever mixes.

Really, these are overwhelming statistics. I know, you will say that all of these Pit Bull attacks were by untrained Pit Bulls, and that could be true, I wouldn't know. Still, 1, 110 to 6 says something.

thanks for pointing again to Otherstuff1957's link. i had read it earlier and it certainly made for interesting reading and as you say, overwhelming statistics.

a couple of points...

* the article states the figures were compiled "by the editor of ANIMAL PEOPLE from press accounts since 1982". the editor is reliant on the press getting the breed of dog correct. in other words, this 'evidence' comes to us via 4 steps, the editor, the press, the animal control officer who takes a statement from the owner/victim.

* the biggest flaw in these statistics, and certainly the one that causes the most grief, is that the “breed” categorized by the report as

“pit bull-type dog” does not exist. nor is “pit bull” a breed recognized by any breed registry. housed beneath the catch-all designation “pit bull” are at least twenty (and as many as 35) different breeds of dog. lump twenty breeds of dog together as one breed and you will certainly have what looks like a breed problem as relates to dog bites and dog-bite-related fatalities.

in the media the term is vague and may include other breeds with similar physical characteristics, such as the Perro de Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Alano Espanol, Japanese Tosa, Dogue de Bordeaux, Cordoba Fighting Dog, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, American Bulldog, Boxer, Valley Bulldog, Olde English Bulldogge, Renascence Bulldogge, and Banter Bulldogge.

* identification difficulties aside, there are other fundamental problems with these bite statistics. despite what many on this forum believe, there are mitigating factors involved with bullybreed (if these are what is meant by the use of the slang term “pitbull”) dog bites. it is imperative to keep in mind that even if breed-specific bite rates could be accurately calculated, they do not factor in owner-related issues. for example, less responsible owners or owners who want to foster aggression in their dogs may be drawn differentially to certain breeds.

these factors would relate to both bullybreeds and golden retrievers alike.

[orangezeke]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

[DLock]

My summing up of this very long thread is this:

APBTs are not a breed with the best temperament to begin with. To be fair though, the ATTS score of 85.3% is not too shabby. However the fact that APBTs show up statistically all over the world as the #1 attackers surely proves the point that their owners must bear the brunt of the blame for their poor reputation - due almost certainly to poor training and/or abuse of the dogs. There is a strong case for either special rules for ownership (rigidly enforced), or banning the breed. I can't see the former happening in Thailand (sadly).

I agree Khun Or.

Pitbulls are not good for anything except what they were bred for.

But the biggest problem is not the dogs, its the people who are buying them - they have no idea what they are buying, and all too often, when the dog does attack, it's always the dogs fault and the dog is put down. Owners are 100% responsible 100% of the time.

You can train a pitbull all you want, but you can never trust that training 100%. It's not that they are stupid - but they have a binary brain. On or Off.

Banning them is the ideal solution, but sadly, it won't happen, and if it does, it will force Sombat into retreating a little further into the jungle to breed gameness into his lines. The puppies will end up for sale and Lek will get one for Christmas and by Songkran it will have bitten of her face. Who's to blame?

The key is not banning or culling the dogs...it's slapping some sense into stupid Owners that get them for the wrong reasons and don't have a safe environment to keep them. I totally support licensing, inspections and training for pitbulls and if the Owner fails, the dog is taken away. The only way to stop pitbull attacks is to stop idiot Owners and reduce the dogs out there.

[Old Man River]

Here you go old man river - some facts...

The American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org/index.html) provides temperament testing for dog breeds and provides a passing score for the entire breed based on the percentage of passed over failed within total number of that particular breed tested.

As of Dec 2008, the American Pit Bull Terrier has a current passing rate of 85.3%; Golden Retriver passes at 84.6%

APBT type dogs make wonderful, loving, and very loyal companions. It is important, however, to understand the breed's nature, to provide a structured environment, and to establish a positive leadership role. In order to do so, every APBT owner must understand the original purpose of the breed and respect its limit and potential. I agree with DLock that you wont soon see that in Thailand but why not start by punishing the deed rather than the breed.

Check out Otherstuff1957's link. Over a 24 year period in the US and Canada, Pit Bull terriers were responsible for 1,110 attacks doing bodily harm compared to a grand total of 6 (six) for golden retrievers. Also, there were 72 more for Pit Bull mixes. They didn't list any attacks by golden retriever mixes.

Really, these are overwhelming statistics. I know, you will say that all of these Pit Bull attacks were by untrained Pit Bulls, and that could be true, I wouldn't know. Still, 1, 110 to 6 says something.

thanks for pointing again to Otherstuff1957's link. i had read it earlier and it certainly made for interesting reading and as you say, overwhelming statistics.

a couple of points...

* the article states the figures were compiled "by the editor of ANIMAL PEOPLE from press accounts since 1982". the editor is reliant on the press getting the breed of dog correct. in other words, this 'evidence' comes to us via 4 steps, the editor, the press, the animal control officer who takes a statement from the owner/victim.

* the biggest flaw in these statistics, and certainly the one that causes the most grief, is that the “breed” categorized by the report as

“pit bull-type dog” does not exist. nor is “pit bull” a breed recognized by any breed registry. housed beneath the catch-all designation “pit bull” are at least twenty (and as many as 35) different breeds of dog. lump twenty breeds of dog together as one breed and you will certainly have what looks like a breed problem as relates to dog bites and dog-bite-related fatalities.

in the media the term is vague and may include other breeds with similar physical characteristics, such as the Perro de Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Alano Espanol, Japanese Tosa, Dogue de Bordeaux, Cordoba Fighting Dog, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, American Bulldog, Boxer, Valley Bulldog, Olde English Bulldogge, Renascence Bulldogge, and Banter Bulldogge.

* identification difficulties aside, there are other fundamental problems with these bite statistics. despite what many on this forum believe, there are mitigating factors involved with bullybreed (if these are what is meant by the use of the slang term “pitbull”) dog bites. it is imperative to keep in mind that even if breed-specific bite rates could be accurately calculated, they do not factor in owner-related issues. for example, less responsible owners or owners who want to foster aggression in their dogs may be drawn differentially to certain breeds.

these factors would relate to both bullybreeds and golden retrievers alike.

I have now read from a number of links on dog bites (google) and they take many different views. Many present your view about Pit Bulls, but absolutely none of them report golden retrievers as problem dogs. None.

The bottom line is that if a Pit Bull is well trained, apparently it won't maul anyone. However, let's face it. Most dogs of any breed are not well trained. I did train my golden, but her training wasn't about not biting - she already knew that, but rather to obey my commands. Unfortunately, she has forgotten everything.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Old Man River

[KhunOr]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

Very good! Have added that one to my 'favourites'.

Just wait for someone to say that all the dogs shown are as bad as each other....

[thaimiller]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

Very good! Have added that one to my 'favourites'.

Just wait for someone to say that all the dogs shown are as bad as each other....

this is very good, I actually got it right first time, but the mrs took 6 attempts. Just shows why they often get blamed for everything. Im not saying their innocent all the time also before i get jumped upon by the kill the pitbull brigade. But this is a very good link.

[canuckamuck]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

Very good! Have added that one to my 'favourites'.

Just wait for someone to say that all the dogs shown are as bad as each other....

Not exactly fair, the actual pit bull is shot from an angle that eliminates the characteristic head shape and is obviously a young and small pit bull.

For the other dogs many of the other the pictures were chosen for their similarity to pit bulls. But the real problem comes because the pictures are so small, that when you see the larger version you immediately says whoops, I didn't know it looked like that.

To be fair, the next page would have shown a variety of pit bulls to show how much some of those others dogs look like pit bulls.

Also, half of those breeds are pretty exotic, and not likely to be seen by many

[brahmburgers]

The key is not banning or culling the dogs...it's slapping some sense into stupid Owners that get them for the wrong reasons and don't have a safe environment to keep them. I totally support licensing, inspections and training for pitbulls and if the Owner fails, the dog is taken away. The only way to stop pitbull attacks is to stop idiot Owners and reduce the dogs out there.

I've had 1st hand experience of how average Thais treat their dogs, and the picture is not pretty.

They allow them to bark at all hours, chase whatever comes up the street, run with yapping packs all over the place.

Thais are good at showing affection to their dogs and feeding them. Some even clean their dogs and put sweaters on them when the temperature is a tad bit less than warm. That's it. There's no 'obedience training' or responsibility associated with any but a few Thai dogs. Then there are the untold hundreds of thousands of mutts who hang out at temple areas, often scaring off visitors.

Also, most dog breeds are not heat tolerant enough for Thailand. Labs and Huskies are just a couple of the many breeds who much prefer cold. Having a thick-furred animal in Thailand is a form of animal abuse.

[orangezeke]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

Very good! Have added that one to my 'favourites'.

Just wait for someone to say that all the dogs shown are as bad as each other....

Not exactly fair, the actual pit bull is shot from an angle that eliminates the characteristic head shape and is obviously a young and small pit bull.

For the other dogs many of the other the pictures were chosen for their similarity to pit bulls. But the real problem comes because the pictures are so small, that when you see the larger version you immediately says whoops, I didn't know it looked like that.

To be fair, the next page would have shown a variety of pit bulls to show how much some of those others dogs look like pit bulls.

Also, half of those breeds are pretty exotic, and not likely to be seen by many

pit bulls are a medium sized dog. The APBT ranges in size from 18kg to 55kg, with the most common being between 16-25 kg. in fact the original APBT's were between 9-18 kg. and were bred small for their main purpose, fighting. a very common misconception is that APBT's are muscle bound hulks. most of the APBT's that are that large have been crossed with another breeds. kennels will always say in their description - Very Serious Fault: Any disproportionate overdone characteristic (such as short legs, excessive bone or massive head or body) that would interfere with working ability.

the whole point of this exercise was to discount the preconception that APBT are to blame. that means when bangkok post says 'a pit bull took my baby' you should be asking, do they mean APBT or do they mean one of a handful of 'pretty exotic' breeds ?

[thaimiller]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

Very good! Have added that one to my 'favourites'.

Just wait for someone to say that all the dogs shown are as bad as each other....

Not exactly fair, the actual pit bull is shot from an angle that eliminates the characteristic head shape and is obviously a young and small pit bull.

For the other dogs many of the other the pictures were chosen for their similarity to pit bulls. But the real problem comes because the pictures are so small, that when you see the larger version you immediately says whoops, I didn't know it looked like that.

To be fair, the next page would have shown a variety of pit bulls to show how much some of those others dogs look like pit bulls.

Also, half of those breeds are pretty exotic, and not likely to be seen by many

pit bulls are a medium sized dog. The APBT ranges in size from 18kg to 55kg, with the most common being between 16-25 kg. in fact the original APBT's were between 9-18 kg. and were bred small for their main purpose, fighting. a very common misconception is that APBT's are muscle bound hulks. most of the APBT's that are that large have been crossed with another breeds. kennels will always say in their description - Very Serious Fault: Any disproportionate overdone characteristic (such as short legs, excessive bone or massive head or body) that would interfere with working ability.

the whole point of this exercise was to discount the preconception that APBT are to blame. that means when bangkok post says 'a pit bull took my baby' you should be asking, do they mean APBT or do they mean one of a handful of 'pretty exotic' breeds ?

The best post with the most truthful facts yet.....The people on this thread that have been calling for all pitbulls to be killed probably don't know these facts and have never had any experience with the breed.

[Smithson]

There's been 12 pages of debate about whether APBTs are vicious or not. The misconception that the breed is the most important factor in a dog attack is dangerous as it leads ppl to think there are 'safe' breeds that will never bite.

To prevent attacks it's useful to understand the situations that lead to them. For example, dogs that are allowed on couches are much more likely to attack because they see themselves as of equal status to ppl. A dog on a couch next to a child that is eating is dangerous situation.

Other factors that lead to attacks are the number of dogs present, sex of the dog, are they neutered or in season, are they hungry, hot, thirsty, is food or toys present, training, socialization...etc.

Anyone who things dogs simply 'go psycho' and attack knows nothing about canine behavior.

[FarangCravings]

my post below says it all

Edited April 9, 2009 by FarangCravings

[FarangCravings]

What planet are you from, in which part of my initial post did I mention that the dog had not been trained? In which part of it did I tell you that it had been left to roam with 'the pack'?? I didnt say any of that.

None of the dogs on the property are untrained, none of them roam the property & I can tell you that farmers

all around the world are constantly on the look out for new dogs to work & with that in mind & after having sampled many breeds of dogs I would have to agree with those that posted previously that stated that the pit bulls are an extremely stupid dog & during the time that we had this dog I was not overly impressed. Many people could learn a trick or two from good farmers who probably have some of the best trained dogs, you should take some time out to go and have a look, it may stop you from making such stupid comments.

Neverdies profile message

"Spent the first half of my life living between Zimbabwee & Egypt before moving to Cuba & working in a Cigar factory. Moved to Australia & established myself as a property tycoon before opening a worm farm in Sudan. Now Live in UAE & stay in Thailand often with some of my wives "

HMMM neverdie, based on your profile message i have to conclude you were just trying out farming as you were trying out a Pitbull then you tried out worm farming and then tried out Cigar making then you tried out a few wives that your still trying out then you tried out being a real estate mogul now your trying to sound intelligent and your failing at that too

Ahh well you keep trying

[merck]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

The fact that it's so hard to tell the various staffs, pitbulls etc apart on that website shows how similar they are.

Lots of hits on Google for Staffordshire Bull Terrier attacks:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7878393.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3018062.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/3351321.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northam...ire/6765321.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/774366.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2280565.stm

etc

After having owned a fair few breeds of dogs over the years (back home in Oz) I bought a Pit Bull, as after the bad publicity that surround the dog I was interested to try one for myself. The dog was kept on my farm with a number of other breeds & treated well, exactly the same as the others. I have never had a problem with a dog killing livestock or anything before.

Approximately the 18 month period after having no problems with the dog whatsoever it went on a killing spree one morning & killed 2 other dogs, a goat, a sheep & some chickens, all in a matter of minutes. As I approached the dog, calling it in it charged me, at which time I got into my cruiser & sat there as the dog went wild at the side of the vehicle. I ended its day with a 243 round to the head.

I never was there for the start of that killing spree, I have absolutely no idea what set the dog off & I nearly quite possible became one of its victims at the end. I don't need a dog like that, I can't see that anyone does, yes the breed has a bad reputation, a very bad reputation & its not hard to see why. The only good Pit Bull is a dead Pit Bull.

A salutary tale about pitbulls. As for you writing you tried out the breed, well I guess that applies to any dog owner, since anyone who owns a dog for the first time or a breed they haven't owned before is effectively 'trying it out'. So not quite sure why you were taken to task for it. Thanks for posting.

[brahmburgers]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

Very good! Have added that one to my 'favourites'.

Just wait for someone to say that all the dogs shown are as bad as each other....

Not exactly fair, the actual pit bull is shot from an angle that eliminates the characteristic head shape and is obviously a young and small pit bull.

For the other dogs many of the other the pictures were chosen for their similarity to pit bulls. But the real problem comes because the pictures are so small, that when you see the larger version you immediately says whoops, I didn't know it looked like that.

To be fair, the next page would have shown a variety of pit bulls to show how much some of those others dogs look like pit bulls.

Also, half of those breeds are pretty exotic, and not likely to be seen by many

pit bulls are a medium sized dog. The APBT ranges in size from 18kg to 55kg, with the most common being between 16-25 kg. in fact the original APBT's were between 9-18 kg. and were bred small for their main purpose, fighting. a very common misconception is that APBT's are muscle bound hulks. most of the APBT's that are that large have been crossed with another breeds. kennels will always say in their description - Very Serious Fault: Any disproportionate overdone characteristic (such as short legs, excessive bone or massive head or body) that would interfere with working ability.

the whole point of this exercise was to discount the preconception that APBT are to blame. that means when bangkok post says 'a pit bull took my baby' you should be asking, do they mean APBT or do they mean one of a handful of 'pretty exotic' breeds ?

I looked at the web page which asks, "find the pit bull" Interesting, but a bit misleading. Granted, in the strict sense, the pit bull is one of hundreds of dog breeds. However, because there are so many dozens of variations among purists (those defining dog breeds), the variations become nearly miniscule - sometimes the difference between a curled ear tip or a straight ear tip, or a slight color variation. All dogs can interbreed, at least in theory, though their differences in sizes precludes this in practical terms.

Perhaps the people who assert that pit bulls are a ticking time bomb, should adjust their statement to refer to "pit bull type dogs" or "dogs which have been bred to be vicious" or "terrier type dogs" whatever.

You see where this is going: it's largely semantics. The fact remains that many, if not most dogs can become instantly vicious in the right circumstance, depending on upbringing, temperament, and a host of other extenuating reasons/circumstances.

The bottom line is, wherever people habituate, there are far too many dogs, and that most of them (the dogs, not the people) have little or no training, and are either running free or being taken care of by grossly irresponsible people. On 2nd thought, all that could apply to people also.

People who harbor potentially maiming and/or lethal dogs should be held fully responsible for the actions of their animals. No excuses. If you have dogs, be responsible for them. If that means getting them either neutered, spayed, muzzled, de-barked, immunized, cleaned, chained, then so be it. If it also means euthanizing the dog and/or putting the owners behind bars for directly or indirectly causing serious harm, then that too should happen. Unfortunately, none of that will effectively happen in Thailand.

[KhunOr]

I looked at the web page which asks, "find the pit bull" Interesting, but a bit misleading. Granted, in the strict sense, the pit bull is one of hundreds of dog breeds. However, because there are so many dozens of variations among purists (those defining dog breeds), the variations become nearly miniscule - sometimes the difference between a curled ear tip or a straight ear tip, or a slight color variation. All dogs can interbreed, at least in theory, though their differences in sizes precludes this in practical terms.

Sorry, but you lost me there.

Pit Bulls are a distinct breed of fighting dog. They are Amstaffs (exactly the same breed, not crossed with any other), but have a completely different temperament that has been bred into them over decades. A Pit Bull breeder today will never mix the bloodline with an Amstaff.

Fact is that many people (even owners sometimes) refer to their Amstaffs as Pit Bulls. They look so alike that it is hardly surprising that these two are easily confused. But they ARE different.

Further big problems of definition arise when Pit Bulls and Amstaffs are interbred, or crossed with other breeds by irresponsible owners. Which characteristics will the offspring develop? Which breed 'parent' will they resemble in appearance? What should the offspring be called?

Were the three dogs who mauled the woman pure bred Pit Bulls, or crosses? I have no idea. Are the thousands of news stories around the world that refer to Pit Bull attacks really purebred Pit Bulls or crosses? Again, in many cases we don't know. It would be accurate reporting to call crosses a "Pit Bull Cross" of course, but I for one would accept that it is fair (if not completely accurate) to refer to any Pit Bull cross as a Pit Bull, because indeed the differences can be miniscule.

Now, the point of the "find the Pit Bull" website is not about "miniscule differences" at all. It is about people's ignorance of different purebred dogs. If you didn't spot the Pit Bull on the first attempt, it means that you are not sufficiently familiar with dog breeds. The vast majority of people are not, so don't beat yourself up over it. I breed English Bull Terriers, which in appearance and temperament are poles apart from Pit Bulls, yet about 80% of folk who meet me with my dogs (Thai and foreigners alike) say: "Oh! A Pit Bull!"

[bina]

couldnt resist, here in israel, after any dog attack, the dog is always 'a rottweiler' .... my poor beautiful family boxers had people crossing the road to get around them thinking they were 'bulldogs' (=pit bulls)....

same same for the dogge de bordauex (flavour of the month dog here in israel but all, all that i have met , as i live also by a breeder here) are good tempered dogs, by luck or by good breeding i dont know....

a cocker spaniel in the clinic meant we automatically muzzled him; not neccessarily so for the amstaff mixes and 'pure bred red noses' that came in...

and all the photo documented attacks of 'pit bulls' usually showed some 'mafiosa' type guy who had trained his dogs for fighting or 'guarding', and then left the dog/dogs with mother in law, or sister who in turn didnt know not to leave a dog with a highly developed prey drive alone with a baby on the floor.....and the dogs often were the 'garage pit bull' type: taller then the staffie, heavier, and, since the dog is illegal here, badly bred because the breeders that do breed them are 'underground' and concentrate on the prey drive type of personality rather then the family dog, plus the pups get no socialization, and are sold at age 4 weeks w/o getting mother's training. what a good recipe for a psychotic animal.

had my say.

bina

israel

[LooseCannon]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

Picked it straight away.

As soon as I saw the owners leather studded ball gag harness used as a dog restraint....

[Smithson]

Are the thousands of news stories around the world that refer to Pit Bull attacks really purebred Pit Bulls or crosses?

Or are they Pitbulls at all? When a dog chewed of it's owners face, it was reported as pitbull and all there was the usually hysteria. Later when it was revealed to be a Labrador nobody called for the banning of the breed. The statistics regarding Pitbull attacks are taken from media reports and compiled by ppl advocating the banning of the breed.

[orangezeke]

a quick but interesting exercise:

pitbull

The fact that it's so hard to tell the various staffs, pitbulls etc apart on that website shows how similar they are.

Lots of hits on Google for Staffordshire Bull Terrier attacks:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7878393.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3018062.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/3351321.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northam...ire/6765321.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/774366.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2280565.stm

etc

After having owned a fair few breeds of dogs over the years (back home in Oz) I bought a Pit Bull, as after the bad publicity that surround the dog I was interested to try one for myself. The dog was kept on my farm with a number of other breeds & treated well, exactly the same as the others. I have never had a problem with a dog killing livestock or anything before.

Approximately the 18 month period after having no problems with the dog whatsoever it went on a killing spree one morning & killed 2 other dogs, a goat, a sheep & some chickens, all in a matter of minutes. As I approached the dog, calling it in it charged me, at which time I got into my cruiser & sat there as the dog went wild at the side of the vehicle. I ended its day with a 243 round to the head.

I never was there for the start of that killing spree, I have absolutely no idea what set the dog off & I nearly quite possible became one of its victims at the end. I don't need a dog like that, I can't see that anyone does, yes the breed has a bad reputation, a very bad reputation & its not hard to see why. The only good Pit Bull is a dead Pit Bull.

A salutary tale about pitbulls. As for you writing you tried out the breed, well I guess that applies to any dog owner, since anyone who owns a dog for the first time or a breed they haven't owned before is effectively 'trying it out'. So not quite sure why you were taken to task for it. Thanks for posting.

neverdie's reasons for 'trying out' an APBT are his own. but his is a lesson we can all learn from because a blasé attitude will inevitably lead to tears. before buying any dog – terrier, hound or retriever alike – we would do well to research them and their specific breed requirements. someone mentioned the prey drive, inherently different between breeds but a great example of a characteristic that should be considered before making a purchase.

neverdie said he kept his APBT with a number of other dogs. if he had taken some time he would have known APBT's can be 'dog aggressive'. if he had taken some time, he would have known they make for poor farm dogs. the really sad thing ? as the owner of "a fair few breeds of dogs over the years" he should have known better. simply put, they are a unique breed for a specific kind of person/environment. it is unfair that his bad experience be the clarion call for those looking to censor the APBT. he can keep his opinion about them, i'm not interested.

"The more I see of man, the more I like dogs." ~Mme. de Staël

[steelepulse]

>>

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/im...findpit/b24.jpg

Boxer??? Sure it's not.  It's a dogo argentino pup.

Even the site can't get it right.

[MsFigure]

>>

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/im...findpit/b24.jpg

Boxer??? Sure it's not. It's a dogo argentino pup.

Even the site can't get it right.

I don't know steele, it does look like a boxer to me.

Now THESE are what an dogo argentino pup looks like (and our new babies) Casper and Bella

Edited April 11, 2009 by MsFigure

[steelepulse]

Congrats Msfigure on the new pups.  Your're right, that boxer doesn't look anything like your new dogo pups  .

[steelepulse]

It's pretty funny in that I have two of the breeds shown on that "mistaken for pitbulls" page and my 5 yo daughter picked out our two breeds immediately.