Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[CMMCB]

As the number of bank ATMs not charging the fee dwindled, I've been reading with increasing interest the many posts about over the counter transactions, so today finally took my HSCB (Singapore) ATM/debit/Cirrus card into the main Chiangmai branch of SCB (where I've banked for 22 years), along with my passport and bank account book, and asked to put 90,000 baht into my SCB savings account. After a few minutes of frowning at the card and the POS machine, the lady announced "cannot; credit card only, not debit card".

Have I been dreaming all the posts which described cash withdrawals with debit cards over the counter?

Dazed and confused.

CMMCB

[BIGTOE3]

Not amazing really...

Thai banks are still charging the 150 baht fee for foreign ATM card withdrawals...

And we're still talking about the various ways how non-Thais can avoid it...

Good on you JF. Can you help me by stating, where exactly, the Aeon machine at Victory Monument is located I have looked for it without success.

Cheers

BT

[vagabond48]

As the number of bank ATMs not charging the fee dwindled, I've been reading with increasing interest the many posts about over the counter transactions, so today finally took my HSCB (Singapore) ATM/debit/Cirrus card into the main Chiangmai branch of SCB (where I've banked for 22 years), along with my passport and bank account book, and asked to put 90,000 baht into my SCB savings account. After a few minutes of frowning at the card and the POS machine, the lady announced "cannot; credit card only, not debit card".

Have I been dreaming all the posts which described cash withdrawals with debit cards over the counter?

Dazed and confused.

CMMCB

I always assume that whoever I dealing with here or in the US, at least 50% of the time are grossly misinformed or just guess the (wrong) answer so I normally insist on speaking to the manager which may improve the odds some. Dealing with your issue, I would have explained that the withdrawal of cash via a teller counter is a normal procedure then BS that I have done this before at other branches with no problem. If you have already, you also should check with your home bank what is the maximum amount they allow for counter withdrawal. Most of my banks using my debit card limit me to $500. One does go up to $2k.

Good luck.

PS: I have not needed to do a counter withdrawal yet.

[jfchandler]

CMMCB, what you've described is one of the not-so-good thing about counter withdrawals in Thailand.... that being that your outcome is highly dependent on very unpredictable Thai banking staff-people, where ATM transaction are dependent on somewhat more predictable computers and machines.

Clearly, SCB, as a bank, does do counter withdrawals for foreigners. We've had many reports here of people successfully doing so with SCB (and others). However, we've also had reports of people who've been turned down when they've tried to do such a transaction at various banks, even when we know that bank company does do them. Like other things in Thai banking, practices can vary a lot from company to company, branch to branch and even teller to teller.

There's a certain delicious irony to the situation you describe, being a 22-year customer of SCB's. The irony is, of all the different Thai bank companies, SCB has probably the highest per transaction limit for counter withdrawals, I believe, potentially up to 200,000 baht or so at a pop from various reports here...whereas most of the other bank companies tend to have limits closer to the normal ATM withdrawal amounts.

In situations such as yours, there are always a couple things to suggest and try:

--Ask to speak to the branch manager and explain your situation and that you know SCB does what you are asking.

--Come back on another day and make sure you get a different teller

--Go to a different SCB branch in your town, or

--Go to a different Thai bank in your town, as, doing counter withdrawals is not dependent on your being an accounts customer of the bank where you're wanting to do a counter withdrawal (although presumably, being a longtime customer ought to help you...rather than hurt you...as it appears was the case.

I hope they're not processing your transactions at your local branch with an abacus... That would be a really bad sign.

As the number of bank ATMs not charging the fee dwindled, I've been reading with increasing interest the many posts about over the counter transactions, so today finally took my HSCB (Singapore) ATM/debit/Cirrus card into the main Chiangmai branch of SCB (where I've banked for 22 years), along with my passport and bank account book, and asked to put 90,000 baht into my SCB savings account. After a few minutes of frowning at the card and the POS machine, the lady announced "cannot; credit card only, not debit card".

Have I been dreaming all the posts which described cash withdrawals with debit cards over the counter?

Dazed and confused.

CMMCB

[CMMCB]

Yes, thanks, vagabond, good idea. I might have asked to see the manager if it hadn't been almost 15.30 and if I hadn't had another appointment. Think I'll go back tomorrow and try that. There may be a SGD 2,000 limit on the card too, though that's not clear. I'll try for that amount tomorrow and the post the rate & any fees I pay here, if successful. Fingers crossed.

CMMCB

[jfchandler]

I wish I could BigToe... I've only passed it once maybe two months ago when shopping there with the wife, and have not yet returned there since to nail it down more precisely, since the basement of Siam Paragon, among other locations, is a convenient AEON option for me. But it definitely was there then, no doubt. I checked it to be sure, at the time.

Here's the description I had in my prior post mention of this location:

I came across a solo AEON ATM there on one of the corners, located en bank with a couple of other solo ATMs belonging to other Thai banks. I believe it was on the south-west corner, across from the hospital, and near all those street/sidewalk shopping booths.

To elaborate a bit, there's no AEON branch or office there. And there's no particular signage that I recall. It was just one of a couple solo ATM machines located there along the sidewalk, as you're walking around the perimeter of Victory Monument circle.

If you come off of BTS Skytrain there, and take the Skybridge heading north toward Victory Monument itself, then turn left on the bridge and go down the stairs there to street level, you'll be at the corner where the hospital is located, I believe Ratchawithi. From there, if you keep going around the circle clockwise, you'll come to the AEON ATM before you arrive up at the GSB branch that's near Phahon Yothin Road and the Tops Market there.

Let me know if you can find it. Or if not, my wife works near there. So next time I'm up to pick her up in the evening, I'll go a bit early and come back with a more detailed maping, if necessary.

Good on you JF. Can you help me by stating, where exactly, the Aeon machine at Victory Monument is located I have looked for it without success.

Cheers

BT

[CMMCB]

Thanks jfc too.

I'm pretty sure that the teller I asked today was the one who told me I could make this transaction just three weeks ago (after I'd made a more-expensive-than expected SWIFT transfer). This kind of thing has happened to me many times before over the years too: eg. I used to get UK cheques cashed instantly by this branch, but always only after insisting on speaking to the big boss. Then one day the front desk people said it would be OK but next time I tried it no-one would allow it any more. Frustrating. And no explanations. Will soldier on.

CMMCB

[jfchandler]

About SCB...in the same league... when I first moved here, I wanted to open an account with them, and I knew from talking to their SCB Call Center, and checking other sources including here on TV, that I was eligible to have an account with them.

So, one day a few years back, I went to the local SCB branch in a very farang part of Bangkok, and asked to open a new account, and the desk agent told me I could not without a work permit, which I did not have. I believe I spoke with the local manager that day as well, but they insisted no.

So I went back home, called the SCB Call Centre again, they re-confirmed for me that I should be eligible to open an account with them. And so I asked, what should I do now, given the answer from my local branch. The Call Centre staff suggested I try a different branch in another farang area. And when I asked which, they suggested Siam Paragon or Siam Square. So I went to Siam Square to try again.

That day, once again, I got the same answer about needing a work permit. And I explained to the desk agent, what the SCB Call Centre had told me was the bank's policy. She finally had her manager come over, and explained the situation. I showed them my documents and Business visa at the time, and they finally agreed to open a new account then... provided I give them a copy of my apartment rental agreement, which of course I hadn't brought with me that day, not expecting to need it.

So I asked could we open the account that day, to save me another trip, and then I'd bring back the document on the next visit. They agreed, and opened the account, and I never did bring back the copy of the apartment rental agreement. And of course, they never asked for it again.

Welcome to banking in Thailand.

[JimGant]

After a few minutes of frowning at the card and the POS machine, the lady announced "cannot; credit card only, not debit card".

Amazing. Just a few days ago Langsuan posted that he'd used his debit card at a SCB counter -- and got the IER, not the DCC rate advertised by SCB for credit card 'cash advances.'

We know credit cards can be charged the DCC rate. But it's less clear whether ATM/Debit cards can be charged this, or a similar, rate for ATM transactions. Off the top of my head, Visa says absolutely not. And MC/Cirrus (per the example at Bank of Ayudaha) *can*charge DCC for ATM transactions, at least for cards issued in the US.

And I believe cash transactions at bank counters are being handled as ATM transactions by the Visa Plus and MC Cirrus networks. And so the DCC restrictions would carry over.

So, maybe SCB, if they can't gouge us with DCC rates when we use our ATM/Debit cards, just says "no" -- selectively of course.

[Steve2UK]

Thanks jfc too.

I'm pretty sure that the teller I asked today was the one who told me I could make this transaction just three weeks ago (after I'd made a more-expensive-than expected SWIFT transfer). This kind of thing has happened to me many times before over the years too: eg. I used to get UK cheques cashed instantly by this branch, but always only after insisting on speaking to the big boss. Then one day the front desk people said it would be OK but next time I tried it no-one would allow it any more. Frustrating. And no explanations. Will soldier on.

CMMCB

I'm supposing that by "main" SCB branch in Chiang Mai you're referring to the building in Hang Dong Road close to/across from Airport Plaza? If so, I can confirm that I have made Debit card counter withdrawals there. In any case, the teller was definitely wrong (for the reasons outlined by jfc). Lately, I have been using the small SCB branch at Carrefour (car park level) on the Superhighway. Don't know if that's too far out of your way but, in the unlikely event of you meeting the same response when you return to the "main" SCB branch, I can assure you that you'll have no problem with a Debit card at the Carrefour branch - manager speaks excellent English and is very helpful.

As noted before, it must be a Debit card (i.e. one that you can use for shopping) and not just a "cashcard". Others have confused the two and I hope that you haven't.

[vagabond48]

This is not proof positive regarding the current fee status of Aeon but,

their fee warning alert pop up window on their website is now gone. Today, I visited their location in CM at Airport Plaza, waiting about 5 minutes for the same warning to appear on their information display but it was gone as well. There was no written notice that they are charging the 150b fee yet as another member reported on a different thread.

Absent any contrary postings at this time, I will assume that Aeon the last holdout has done a 2 faced turn around and is charging the 150b fee.

One post suggested that based on his final exchange rate, they sneakily reduce his rate by the equivalent amount of 150b. I know their receipt in the past never referenced the word "fee". Another poster saw a sign posted on their machine that they are now charging the 150b.

Edit: Sorry someone just post this..

FYI went to Tesco Hang Dong Road today to AEON machine to draw cash and looked for sign re charges.

No signs whatsoever so approached a nice looking young lady member of staff and asked her if she knew anything. She went to her boss and returned to say no charge for withdrawals YET.

Withdrew 15,000 Baht and sure enough no 150 Baht charge. Don't know if this is just a branch that hasn't caught up yet or what but thought it worth mentioning.

I don't know if this poster assumed there was no 150b fee because the receipt didn't show one or that he went to his online account and did the math.

Obviously the verdict is still out.

Edited November 3, 2009 by vagabond48

[wimpy]

This is not proof positive regarding the current fee status of Aeon but,

their fee warning alert pop up window on their website is now gone. Today, I visited their location in CM at Airport Plaza, waiting about 5 minutes for the same warning to appear on their information display but it was gone as well. There was no written notice that they are charging the 150b fee yet as another member reported on a different thread.

Absent any contrary postings at this time, I will assume that Aeon the last holdout has done a 2 faced turn around and is charging the 150b fee.

One post suggested that based on his final exchange rate, they sneakily reduce his rate by the equivalent amount of 150b. I know their receipt in the past never referenced the word "fee". Another poster saw a sign posted on their machine that they are now charging the 150b.

I did two Aeon withdrawals in the last two days. I got a rate of 33.40/US$ on both of them. I also received two ATM fee rebates from Bank of Internet. In the past I never received a fee rebate on Aeon transactions. So, I would say they are indeed now charging a fee and not disclosing it!

[CMMCB]

I'm supposing that by "main" SCB branch in Chiang Mai you're referring to the building in Hang Dong Road close to/across from Airport Plaza? If so, I can confirm that I have made Debit card counter withdrawals there. In any case, the teller was definitely wrong (for the reasons outlined by jfc). Lately, I have been using the small SCB branch at Carrefour (car park level) on the Superhighway. Don't know if that's too far out of your way but, in the unlikely event of you meeting the same response when you return to the "main" SCB branch, I can assure you that you'll have no problem with a Debit card at the Carrefour branch - manager speaks excellent English and is very helpful.

As noted before, it must be a Debit card (i.e. one that you can use for shopping) and not just a "cashcard". Others have confused the two and I hope that you haven't.

Hi Steve2UK,

I meant the Thapae Rd branch, which was always the CM "head office" in the past (not sure if this is still the case). If I don't get any joy when I try there again tomorrow I might try the Carrefour sub-branch. Thanks for the suggestion. Oh, and yes, it's definitely a debit card too. (And Mastercard electronic, which I didn't mention in my first post.) Thanks,

CMMCB

[jfchandler]

33.40 baht per dollar is the approximate IER rate of late... So anyone netting that would not be having any fee taken out to get that as their NET exchange rate. Any fee taken out would produce a much lower rate that 33.40.

I did two Aeon withdrawals in the last two days. I got a rate of 33.40/US$ on both of them. I also received two ATM fee rebates from Bank of Internet. In the past I never received a fee rebate on Aeon transactions. So, I would say they are indeed now charging a fee and not disclosing it!

[wimpy]

33.40 baht per dollar is the approximate IER rate of late... So anyone netting that would not be having any fee taken out to get that as their NET exchange rate. Any fee taken out would produce a much lower rate that 33.40.

I did two Aeon withdrawals in the last two days. I got a rate of 33.40/US$ on both of them. I also received two ATM fee rebates from Bank of Internet. In the past I never received a fee rebate on Aeon transactions. So, I would say they are indeed now charging a fee and not disclosing it!

So, how come all of the sudden my bank is refunding ATM fees for Aeon transactions? I have been using Aeon for a while now, and today was the first time they have done that.

[jfchandler]

Wimpy, I'm not sure I can answer that question, unless your bank might be refunding their own fee... How much was the U.S. $ amount of the refund?? And was it possibly in connection with a different, non-AEON withdrawal???

But, I did double-check about the U.S. $-baht exchange rates, and they are just what I thought, they haven't moved much lately.

Here's the last few days from the Xrates.com web site, which approximates the IER, which is about the best rate anyone's going to get. As you can see, a 33.40 rate these days is NOT having any 150 baht fee deducted out of the exchange rate at that amount.

2009-10-29 Thursday, October 29 33.4724 THB

2009-10-30 Friday, October 30 33.4351 THB

2009-11-02 Monday, November 2 33.4349 THB

I should add, I last used an AEON ATM in BKK on Nov. 1 (Sunday), and there was no fee in that transaction.

Edited November 3, 2009 by jfchandler

[wimpy]

Wimpy, I'm not sure I can answer that question, unless your bank might be refunding their own fee... How much was the U.S. $ amount of the refund?? And was it possibly in connection with a different, non-AEON withdrawal???

But, I did double-check about the U.S. $-baht exchange rates, and they are just what I thought, they haven't moved much lately.

Here's the last few days from the Xrates.com web site, which approximates the IER, which is about the best rate anyone's going to get. As you can see, a 33.40 rate these days is NOT having any 150 baht fee deducted out of the exchange rate at that amount.

2009-10-29 Thursday, October 29 33.4724 THB

2009-10-30 Friday, October 30 33.4351 THB

2009-11-02 Monday, November 2 33.4349 THB

I should add, I last used an AEON ATM in BKK on Nov. 1 (Sunday), and there was no fee in that transaction.

I have been using Aeon exclusively since GSB started spitting out my card. Bank of Internet refunds a maximum of $8 a month in ATM fees (they give the refund immediately after making the ATM transaction, not at the end of the month). They gave me back a total of $8 for the two transactions. One on Saturday and one on Sunday. These are the first refunds I have had in quite some time.

[fletchsmile]

80 pages on ATM threads. I'm sorry but I'm missing the hidden sublimal messages - I've tried reading all the posts backwards or at different speeds but still can't see the hidden messages. Could someone help?

I'm starting to think this thread might actually be about saving THB 150 fees.

[BIGTOE3]

I'm starting to think this thread might actually be about saving THB 150 fees.

Hi Fletch - nice to see you back BUT why are you trying to wind up some NICE guys ?????????? Maybe I should have left you Banned lol.

BT

[fletchsmile]

BigToe you mean this thread actually IS about saving 150 baht, and there isn't a subliminal message in these 80 pages?

I guess I'm just a bit thick - I copied many of the foreigners here and opened a Thai bank account with an ATM card. That way I thought I could just get on with what's important in life. I see now I've missed the plot.

On the very odd occasion I used a foreign card as a tourist would, I'd take out the max amount. I figured 150 baht is just the price of a beer. Better to pay for an extra round at the nearest ATM than waste drinking time walking around looking for the "right" ATM... Should I also stop leaving a tip at bars and buying the odd drink for staff as well - that sometimes comes to the price of a beer too?

Edited November 4, 2009 by fletchsmile

[wimpy]

BigToe you mean this thread actually IS about saving 150 baht, and there isn't a subliminal message in these 80 pages?

I guess I'm just a bit thick - I copied many of the foreigners here and opened a Thai bank account with an ATM card. That way I thought I could just get on with what's important in life. I see now I've missed the plot.

On the very odd occasion I used a foreign card as a tourist would, I'd take out the max amount. I figured 150 baht is just the price of a beer. Better to pay for an extra round at the nearest ATM than waste drinking time walking around looking for the "right" ATM... Should I also stop leaving a tip at bars and buying the odd drink for staff as well - that sometimes comes to the price of a beer too?

And how do you get your foreign funds into your Thai bank account without paying high fees to do so?

[donx]

BigToe you mean this thread actually IS about saving 150 baht, and there isn't a subliminal message in these 80 pages?

I guess I'm just a bit thick - I copied many of the foreigners here and opened a Thai bank account with an ATM card. That way I thought I could just get on with what's important in life. I see now I've missed the plot.

On the very odd occasion I used a foreign card as a tourist would, I'd take out the max amount. I figured 150 baht is just the price of a beer. Better to pay for an extra round at the nearest ATM than waste drinking time walking around looking for the "right" ATM... Should I also stop leaving a tip at bars and buying the odd drink for staff as well - that sometimes comes to the price of a beer too?

And how do you get your foreign funds into your Thai bank account without paying high fees to do so?

Unless he's using money he's made here in Thailand, I'll bet he's actually ending up paying more in fees by doing a SWIFT transfer than he would be paying if he went ahead and used ATMs and paid the 150 baht fee.

And if he had a bank card that provides a good conversion rate and rebates all ATM fees, then he'd have all the convenience of using an ATM without even having to transfer any money at all.

The plot of this thread is not only about saving 150 baht per ATM transaction. It is really about how to save money when retrieving money from a foreign bank account. This thread is not relevant to anyone whose income comes from Thailand.

[jfchandler]

Couldn't have said it better myself, DonX...

[jfchandler]

OK, let's lay this to rest about AEON ATMs...and feel free to spread the word..

They are NOT NOT NOT charging the 150 baht ATM fee.

I went to my local AEON ATM in BKK today (Wednesday) and made a large withdrawal using my U.S. Visa debit card. Got exchange rate of 33.35 at midday. In comparison, the Xrates.com IER number for yesterday/Tuesday was 33.47, and the buying TT rate I saw today at the local SCB exchange booth was 33.11.

Checked my AEON ATM receipt. No fee. Checked my online banking module when I got home... One charge for the amount of my withdrawal. No ATM fee. And no refund of any ATM fee from my U.S. account that would refund one if any were charged.

So, whatever TV threads/posts you may have seen talking about AEON ATMs charging the fee, please repost or link to my report here.

I can't predict the future. But as of today, AEON ATMs remain fee-free....

[vagabond48]

OK, let's lay this to rest about AEON ATMs...and feel free to spread the word..

They are NOT NOT NOT charging the 150 baht ATM fee.

I went to my local AEON ATM in BKK today (Wednesday) and made a large withdrawal using my U.S. Visa debit card. Got exchange rate of 33.35 at midday. In comparison, the Xrates.com IER number for yesterday/Tuesday was 33.47, and the buying TT rate I saw today at the local SCB exchange booth was 33.11.

Checked my AEON ATM receipt. No fee. Checked my online banking module when I got home... One charge for the amount of my withdrawal. No ATM fee. And no refund of any ATM fee from my U.S. account that would refund one if any were charged.

So, whatever TV threads/posts you may have seen talking about AEON ATMs charging the fee, please repost or link to my report here.

I can't predict the future. But as of today, AEON ATMs remain fee-free....

Well, I was going to withdraw some cash at the Chiang Mai Airport Plaza Aeon branch. 1st I asked one of the cust reps about the fee.She said they are charging the 150 baht fee. Thinking that she may not have understood my question as her English was not that good, I asked to speak to a phone rep. I got a phone rep that spoke decent English and he confirmed that Aeon was charging the 150b fee. I even try to explain to him that another nearby branch wasn't charging that fee.

So jfc, they MAY MAY MAY ( ) be charging the fee at some branches. I waiting for for my fidelity account to be replenished with more money and I will try that branch for withdrawing a slightly larger amount than usual. I guess the worse that will happen is me having to call up Fidelity to get my 150b back.

Edited November 4, 2009 by vagabond48

[fletchsmile]

...

Checked my AEON ATM receipt. No fee. Checked my online banking module when I got home... One charge for the amount of my withdrawal. No ATM fee. And no refund of any ATM fee from my U.S. account that would refund one if any were charged.

...

And how much was the charge for the withdrawal kind sir?

[vagabond48]

Regarding the Fidelity MYSmartCash account with the no fee debit card, I waited until the month end statement to see if they fixed their system to automatically credit back any international ATM fees. They still haven't fixed this so is here the solution I plan to use with this card.

1st I want to say they have some customer reps that don't know much about this account and get it confused with their brokerage account. The last time I speak to one supervisor she refused to refund my fee and also refused to look at their web page that described the MYSmartCash account's ATM policies. She directed me to a pdf file that referred to foreign exchange rate fee. Her pee brain (sorry) could not comprehend the the 150b was a fixed fee versus the foreign exchange rate fee which at 1% would have been a variable amount. In the course of our conversation, she also insisted that there was no difference between a credit or debit card, even after explain the difference. She is a fine example of the Peter Principle at work, "In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His/Her Level of Incompetence."

I hung up and spoke to a 2nd supervisor who was more receptive to my request. He agreed to refund my fee (sort of, I'll explain later). I also asked him to put in my account file in clear and concise English that if I were to call in the future that they issue me a credit refund as the current system does not automatically do this. I also had him write that, the fee I request is not the foreign exchange rate fee which I understand is not refundable (of course we know better ) but ATM fees which are 100% refundable. I checked 2 days later for my credit refund but it still had not showed up. I called up and tested my new procedure. I had the phone rep review the notes by Mr xxxx on yy/yy/yy and told him the fee hadn't been refunded. The rep read the information and saw that the fee was requested and didn't know why it hadn't been processed. He went ahead and manually added the credit.

It isn't a perfect system but I hope I will have no problems in the future.

Schwab (better interest rate) and ETrade are the better cards to use as both do automatically refund the ATM fees.

Edited November 4, 2009 by vagabond48

[mrtoad]

[

Unless he's using money he's made here in Thailand, I'll bet he's actually ending up paying more in fees by doing a SWIFT transfer than he would be paying if he went ahead and used ATMs and paid the 150 baht fee.

And if he had a bank card that provides a good conversion rate and rebates all ATM fees, then he'd have all the convenience of using an ATM without even having to transfer any money at all.

The plot of this thread is not only about saving 150 baht per ATM transaction. It is really about how to save money when retrieving money from a foreign bank account. This thread is not relevant to anyone whose income comes from Thailand.

You may well be right, but you may well be wrong. Fletch though will certainly have a very good idea on charges though.

[jfchandler]

I think you're not understanding me, Fletch... I meant, the only debit to my U.S. bank account was the exact amount of baht that I withdrew from the AEON ATM... no fees or extra charges added in. Just my base withdrawal amount.

...

Checked my AEON ATM receipt. No fee. Checked my online banking module when I got home... One charge for the amount of my withdrawal. No ATM fee. And no refund of any ATM fee from my U.S. account that would refund one if any were charged.

...

And how much was the charge for the withdrawal kind sir?

[jfchandler]

I would concur, Vagabond... But I'm glad you were able to finally get them to cough up the $1.50... for one ATM use.

Considering that E*Trade and Schwab are automatic and relatively grief free, it strikes me that the Fidelity route is a bit much of a hassle...

Especially IF AEON goes down, I wouldn't want to be fighting that battle with Fidelity every time I used a fee-charging Thai ATM.

Schwab (better interest rate) and ETrade are the better cards to use as both do automatically refund the ATM fees.