Is There A Solution To The Current Crisis Caused By Frequent Demonstrations?

[thailandlover]

It seems to me that some Thai people feel the need to take to the streets to try and alter the government, policies and course of events with demonstrations. While it most certainly cannot be considered all Thai people or even a majority since the numbers on the streets compared to the total population is really quite small, it seems that there is no understanding from either group of demonstrators that crippling the government, the economy or anything else is not necessarily productive.

Is there a solution for this problem? Or is it just going to get worse?

[Boater]

more or less worst.... trouble is neither side will except the other side in power !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Is there a solution for this problem? Or is it just going to get worse?

Sure, it's called having elections, as is common in a parliamentary democracy before there's a complete shift in government.

The main problem is that one side doesn't believe in parliamentrary democracy or the one man one vote concept.

Other than that, I think it's very encouraging that regular Thais are more interested in taking an active role in politics and voicing their opinion through demonstrations. Some countries see that every week year-round, and they're by and large very healthy democracies. Would be nice to think that Thaiand is on the way to maturing into that as well.

Edited April 8, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[H2oDunc]

Just been watching the Thai PM's car being attacked on the BBC. Shocking considering the amount of police at the scene. I'm not sure how this is going to be sorted without the Thaksin problem being sorted first. Thaksin still has a lot of support and the threat of him being prosecuted I don't think helps the problem. Maybe an amnesty and allow him back into the country then have him publicly announce his retirement from politics and an election ? For sure the pictures broadcast on the BBC does no good to the reputation of Thailand. The British just see it as a continuation of the last troubles even though its a totally different party causing the trouble now.

[Junglejumbo]

There are solutions:

Firstly, both sides have to accept certain truths. Abhisit could have done much to prevent the current problems had he told some truths and accepted reality. Truth is that the chances of privy council interference is very high. Another truth is that such interference from "higher"authorities has very likely been going on for decades. Basically, what was the point of the 1932 revolution if we have a kind of quasi-system between an elected (or military) and privy council running the country today? Abhisit also has to address progressive changes in society. The Les Majeste law needs serious improvements. Yes, royalty is Thai culture just like it also is in the UK, but culture is permitted to change, and does so by itself. Culture does not mean being stuck in the past. Almost all Thais want to see society progress, however most are also prepared to show a great deal of respect to HM the King -- this is for Abhist to work out. However, as he was brought to govt. partly PAD and with the help of the military he really isn't free to address these issues.

On the side, the Thaksin supporters need to face the facts about their leaders. Thaksin is pure and simply mafia, and so too are most of his work mates. The man orders killings for heaven sake. He really isn't a suitable person to lead a modernizing country like Thailand.

However, I suspect it's not about their leader though. It's about social issues and the poor but sadly there isn't a better or stronger icon that Thaksin so its a kind of mutually beneficial relationship. Thaksin also needs the red shirt to fulfill his plans to remain at the forefront of politics, etc.

Eventually the reds will win whether under their current guise or another in later years, as they most clearly represent social change in the country in terms of everything, not least the finding of their own political voice.

The job of the elected government to help resolve tensions is to be totally unbiased and truthful, but right now the government isn't. Elections may not be the answer until both sides are prepared to accept the truth.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Junglejumbo

[yabaaaa]

It seems to me that some Thai people feel the need to take to the streets to try and alter the government, policies and course of events with demonstrations. While it most certainly cannot be considered all Thai people or even a majority since the numbers on the streets compared to the total population is really quite small, it seems that there is no understanding from either group of demonstrators that crippling the government, the economy or anything else is not necessarily productive.

Is there a solution for this problem? Or is it just going to get worse?

Remember that film "Dumb and Dumber" now insert "red" and "yellow" in any order u like!

[wasabi]

There is no solution. Watching the protesters able to get that close to Abhisit only will confirm in the world's mind Thailand is still firmly and fully a 3rd world banana republic. They are all just pawns in the game and nothing has changed at all.

[caf]

There are solutions:

Firstly, both sides have to accept certain truths. Abhisit could have done much to prevent the current problems had he told some truths and accepted reality. Truth is that the chances of privy council interference is very high. Another truth is that such interference from "higher"authorities has very likely been going on for decades. Basically, what was the point of the 1932 revolution if we have a kind of quasi-system between an elected (or military) and privy council running the country today? Abhisit also has to address progressive changes in society. The Les Majeste law needs serious improvements. Yes, royalty is Thai culture just like it also is in the UK, but culture is permitted to change, and does so by itself. Culture does not mean being stuck in the past. Almost all Thais want to see society progress, however most are also prepared to show a great deal of respect to HM the King -- this is for Abhist to work out. However, as he was brought to govt. partly PAD and with the help of the military he really isn't free to address these issues.

On the side, the Thaksin supporters need to face the facts about their leaders. Thaksin is pure and simply mafia, and so too are most of his work mates. The man orders killings for heaven sake. He really isn't a suitable person to lead a modernizing country like Thailand.

However, I suspect it's not about their leader though. It's about social issues and the poor but sadly there isn't a better or stronger icon that Thaksin so its a kind of mutually beneficial relationship. Thaksin also needs the red shirt to fulfill his plans to remain at the forefront of politics, etc.

Eventually the reds will win whether under their current guise or another in later years, as they most clearly represent social change in the country in terms of everything, not least the finding of their own political voice.

The job of the elected government to help resolve tensions is to be totally unbiased and truthful, but right now the government isn't. Elections may not be the answer until both sides are prepared to accept the truth.

Both sides won't give in . as you say. But Thais want change. For good reason they love their current king. in an ideal world they want change ( democracy, corruption, free speech) but with their king ( this king) still firmly in place.

[tomjoad56]

I like what you wrote. I would add that the Thai system needs changes that allow for investigating and ousting a leader who is found to be corrupt, or not fulfilling his/her obligations for the betterment of the nation. IOW, removing someone via coup or any other method that relies on deals, coercion, etc., is unacceptable. How you accomplish this in a tradition that seems corrupt to the core, is beyond me.

There are solutions:

Firstly, both sides have to accept certain truths. Abhisit could have done much to prevent the current problems had he told some truths and accepted reality. Truth is that the chances of privy council interference is very high. Another truth is that such interference from "higher"authorities has very likely been going on for decades. Basically, what was the point of the 1932 revolution if we have a kind of quasi-system between an elected (or military) and privy council running the country today? Abhisit also has to address progressive changes in society. The Les Majeste law needs serious improvements. Yes, royalty is Thai culture just like it also is in the UK, but culture is permitted to change, and does so by itself. Culture does not mean being stuck in the past. Almost all Thais want to see society progress, however most are also prepared to show a great deal of respect to HM the King -- this is for Abhist to work out. However, as he was brought to govt. partly PAD and with the help of the military he really isn't free to address these issues.

On the side, the Thaksin supporters need to face the facts about their leaders. Thaksin is pure and simply mafia, and so too are most of his work mates. The man orders killings for heaven sake. He really isn't a suitable person to lead a modernizing country like Thailand.

However, I suspect it's not about their leader though. It's about social issues and the poor but sadly there isn't a better or stronger icon that Thaksin so its a kind of mutually beneficial relationship. Thaksin also needs the red shirt to fulfill his plans to remain at the forefront of politics, etc.

Eventually the reds will win whether under their current guise or another in later years, as they most clearly represent social change in the country in terms of everything, not least the finding of their own political voice.

The job of the elected government to help resolve tensions is to be totally unbiased and truthful, but right now the government isn't. Elections may not be the answer until both sides are prepared to accept the truth.

[nonthaburial]

I have a disturbing gut feeling that Swampy is still very vulnerable. if the reds should copy the yellows airport seige then i wonder if the military etc would react. If they dont then in my opinion will get worse, but if they do clamp down then clear warnings will have been sent

[bungy007]

Just been watching the Thai PM's car being attacked on the BBC. Shocking considering the amount of police at the scene. I'm not sure how this is going to be sorted without the Thaksin problem being sorted first. Thaksin still has a lot of support and the threat of him being prosecuted I don't think helps the problem. Maybe an amnesty and allow him back into the country then have him publicly announce his retirement from politics and an election ? For sure the pictures broadcast on the BBC does no good to the reputation of Thailand. The British just see it as a continuation of the last troubles even though its a totally different party causing the trouble now.

Sounds about right 'Same same but different'! Amnesty? Very, very bad idea and a dangerous precedent to set. Just retire him as he won't go himself - Thais have a very good system for that - a pillion passenger on a motorbike, cloaked in black to deliver the final message. game over. Not in anyway advocating such summary justice but 'He who lives by the sword,..." and all that! (Guess that's why he and the ex-mrs 'fled the scene' to coin a very well used Thai phrase

[h90]

Is there a solution for this problem? Or is it just going to get worse?

Sure, it's called having elections, as is common in a parliamentary democracy before there's a complete shift in government.

The main problem is that one side doesn't believe in parliamentrary democracy or the one man one vote concept.

Other than that, I think it's very encouraging that regular Thais are more interested in taking an active role in politics and voicing their opinion through demonstrations. Some countries see that every week year-round, and they're by and large very healthy democracies. Would be nice to think that Thaiand is on the way to maturing into that as well.

Yes Samak, Somchai and Abhisit didn't want it....so it must be the complete parliament who doesn't want elections.

Parliamentary democracy this is called.

Which large healthy democracies do you know which sees that every week....I don't know one.

[WeeGB]

h90 wrote.."Which large healthy democracies do you know which sees that every week....I don't know one."

Erm.. France?

There always seems to be thousands taking to the streets there, and the French government are usually forced to listen to the protests. Wish Britain had the b...s to do the same, maybe it wouldn't be up the creek, with no paddle in sight.

[gregb]

Is there a solution for this problem? Or is it just going to get worse?

There is a solution. Encourage the yellow thugs to go beat up the red thugs. Hopefully, they'll all kill each other, and leave the 90% of the country who are tired of the whole mess in peace.

I'm serious. Just have civil war and get it over with. Those who want to fight can go get bloody, and the rest of us will just stay inside until they're all dead and accept whatever group of criminals comes out victorius. There is no solution short of this, and anything would be better than shutting down traffic at Victory Monument. At least the yellow thugs cared enough for their fellow citizens to close the airport where it didn't directly affect most people. The red thugs don't even have that much concern for the country.

Stop this stupid, ridiculous pandering to thugs on either side who claim they are fighting for democracy. If a drug dealer deserves to be shot, then these morons do even more so. They're causing alot more damage to society.

[FarangCravings]

It seems to me that some Thai people feel the need to take to the streets to try and alter the government, policies and course of events with demonstrations. While it most certainly cannot be considered all Thai people or even a majority since the numbers on the streets compared to the total population is really quite small, it seems that there is no understanding from either group of demonstrators that crippling the government, the economy or anything else is not necessarily productive.

Is there a solution for this problem? Or is it just going to get worse?

Easy answer to this

Have General election let the people vote of course this probably wont solve it cause current power would lose and then demonstrate and take over the airport again and ignore the majority vote.

[gregb]

Easy answer to this

Have General election let the people vote of course this probably wont solve it cause current power would lose and then demonstrate and take over the airport again and ignore the majority vote.

We've had several elections already. That won't change anything. This is a proxy war between 2 groups of elite criminals. Neither will accept loss, and both only pay lip service to concept of democracy, which means accepting the rule of law, not just how many votes can you buy.

This problem has to be solved the old fashioned way. We need guns. Lots of guns. Stock up and stay indoors until the bloodshed stops.

[bertlamar]

Easy answer to this

Have General election let the people vote of course this probably wont solve it cause current power would lose and then demonstrate and take over the airport again and ignore the majority vote.

No, the current group in power are a coalition that have a majority; all were elected. The elections since the current govt was formed...did you see the reds (who appear to be in total disarray based on that censure debate) actually exercise political nouse or power at all? Nah, easier just to be a mob and make stuff up like the yellow mob did before them.

I guess however, this is how a democracy is supposed to work. Everyone has a voice. but only an idiot would listen to the reds (or yellows) and actually believe the c&*p they are spouting - they would sweep the next election. Please. No chance unless they win back all the same gangsters that got them into a coalition last time....not so easy and getting harder.

The current government learned a lot from the matyrdom and escalation of the yellow shirt mob idiots, and are letting the reds burn themselves out I would guess until Songkran, when most of the highly educated red shirts (who are now intimidating the media as well and other highly positive things) will head back to the provinces, cash in their cheques and enjoy discussing indepth economic policy over some lao kao.

A couple of massively disruptive days, a few more antics like mobbing the PM's house, directly insulting institutions like the privvy council and the legitimate concerns of the reds will be overshadowed by the reprehensible conduct of a few of their leaders and group.

[mark5335]

Is there a solution for this problem? Or is it just going to get worse?

Sure, it's called having elections, as is common in a parliamentary democracy before there's a complete shift in government.

The main problem is that one side doesn't believe in parliamentrary democracy or the one man one vote concept.

Other than that, I think it's very encouraging that regular Thais are more interested in taking an active role in politics and voicing their opinion through demonstrations. Some countries see that every week year-round, and they're by and large very healthy democracies. Would be nice to think that Thaiand is on the way to maturing into that as well.

I agree, however, a very large proportion of these protesters are only doing it because they receive 500 baht per day and a free (red) shirt. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them were previously protesting as yellows last year.

[Ulysses G.]

if the reds should copy the yellows airport seige then i wonder if the military etc would react.

You don't need to wonder. They would crush them like bugs. That is why they haven't done it.

[dave111223]

There is no solution.

Hold elections -> "reds" win -> "yellows" topple government -> "reds" call for new elections -> Rinse and Repeat.

Personally I think the "reds" should grin and bare it until the next general election (for the good of the country), at which point their choice would get voted in. If at this point "yellows" still complained it would be time to really kick up a fuss.

Edited April 9, 2009 by dave111223

[bertlamar]

There is no solution.

Hold elections -> "reds" win -> "yellows" topple government -> "reds" call for new elections -> Rinse and Repeat.

Personally I think the "reds" should grin and bare it until the next general election (for the good of the country), at which point their choice would get voted in. If at this point "yellows" still complained it would be time to really kick up a fuss.

so called 'reds' can't form a coalition now, unless people started switching sides, there is no way they would win an election either. When they lost Newin, they stopped having enough power to stay in power.

The byelections since have not demonstrated there is this massive groundswell of support that the reds seem to have brainwashed everyone into thinking exists.

Who the rural poor choose has not changed since the 90s for the most part, the only thing that changed is the jao pors switched sides to ensure they would get the biggest payouts. Right now, a fair few of them would rather be in pi$$ing out, than on the outside getting coated in urine.

And to think had they simply run the county when they had the chance instead of only trying to fiddle the constitution and get their square faced leader to avoid court cases, that we would not be probably in this mess now and all those fat cats would still be stuffing their faces with cash thanks to the 2008 budget.

Best solution is to let the reds make fools of themselves, get wet (now) and then they can all f&*k off back to where they came from and a few can go to jail. Well, the ones still around in town like gay pride poster boy Jakapop (the lese majeste one who did the corruption stuff at NBT/Channel 11).

Edited April 9, 2009 by bertlamar

[spacefruit]

One man one vote, while a goal I support, is not possible in a place where those a person's vote is bought, or persuaded by anything other than their own (educated) mind.

The education system needs to produce people capable of following their own ideas, have a sense of right and wrong, some compassion and if needed, shame.

Here we have a large group of people who yield their vote to some form of patriarch, and that is not one man one vote.

The education system needs to produce people of independent minds, people with the courage to question their teachers if necessary, and the teachers who not just tolerate, but encourage it.

Of course that will not suit those who currently hold power, either through government, military or the economy.

And to correct it will take a long time and a seismic social shift.

[sevenhills]

If Thailand wants true Democracy then the only real solution is to have a general election asap. I have read comments here regarding the Red party that they are doing the wrong thing by the Thai people? What a load of c..p. Some people have short memories. Not that long ago the streets were filled with YELLOW Thugs. This group of yellow Thugs numbered around 3000 (a miniscule % of the population) in the streets and culminating in the terrorist act of taking over two Thai International Airports and disrupting the travel of International passengers and Thai's alike with apparent sanction. No real action has been dispensed to these THUGS? Why? A lot of lip service by the current illegal Government.

The present protest rallies by the Red party have many thousands and thousands more protesters there than the previous yellow protesters ever had. The present protest by the Red Party is the voice of the majority of Thai people.

Respect the wishes of these people and dissolve Parliament and have fresh, corruption free elections, if this is at all possible??? but alas there are too many people who want to be BOSS, but have absolutely no concept of true Democracy, but only their own interests to serve.

[slapout]

7 hills, Me thinks you have been into the segrams 7 a tad too much. I am sure you will give us reference to the numbers you used in your opinion. I do agree with your use of the term thugs, although I would like to see it include any group who disrupts transport and travel for those of us who would like to remain out of the equation. This would include farmers, bus drivers, red shirts, yellow shirts, taxi drivers etc. These groups seem to feel they have the right to destroy public and or private property with impunity as well as business concerns of which they have no interest. When a few of these punks are held responsible for their actions in a way beneficial to the rest of society, big fines, loss of vehicle, road/street cleaning duty, etc they may decide that they need to grow up and be a responsible, contributing part of the society.

[Scott]

Elections should be the answer, but they aren't. As long as the higher-ups use the courts to disqualify everyone they don't like (but let those they do continue to rule). You end up with a 3rd string team of puppets of the disqualified candidates.

[teletiger]

.003 of Thailands population have come out in support of Thaksin. (including Provinces). Thats a mandate for the present government. Squash him and his family and supporters now. Then go on and destroy PAD. No friends in business.

With whats coming in the global economy....Thailand doesn't need this kee. Abhisit needs to take control. Cut a few strings.

'And there lies the problem. How many strings will the puppeteer allow him to cut. The more popular he becomes, the fewer strings. Descisive action now, in my opinion, would be very popular, across the broad spectrum of Thai people. Maybe even to the point where the puppeteer holds no strings. Seize the day geordie lad...You only live once..er...don't get reborn on a "Baht bus"

Regards

[daveh]

There's a simple solution. Take Thaksin's money that has been frozen and distribute it to the Red Shirts to stop protesting. These are his supporters so he shouldn't have a problem with it. Also, if they love him so much they could give the money back to him, but I doubt he'd get much of it back.

[timekeeper]

It seems to me that some Thai people feel the need to take to the streets to try and alter the government, policies and course of events with demonstrations. While it most certainly cannot be considered all Thai people or even a majority since the numbers on the streets compared to the total population is really quite small, it seems that there is no understanding from either group of demonstrators that crippling the government, the economy or anything else is not necessarily productive.

Is there a solution for this problem? Or is it just going to get worse?

its clear that Thaksin is the root of this trouble

for whatever reason or what his goals are is speculative and i leave it to others to define

however i believe a quick solution may be this;

its clear to all that he is inciting and financing this ''red revolution'' and he should be charged in his absence with inciting people to riot, inciting civil unrest and inciting violence

the money that has been seized based on his current conviction should be used to pay for this current unrest.

so the red shirts should be told that:

all wages of persons, private and governmental used to police this revolution will be paid from thaksins siezed assets

all damage to property, no matter how small should be re-imbursed from these assets

all clean up operations afterwards should be paid for by thaksins money

any medical bills for those officials hurt in any clashes with red shirts should be paid for by thaksins fund

there should be a compensation scheme set up immediately for businesses that have lost income due to this action and will be financed by thaksins money

lets make it simple:

any financial losses suffered by anyone except the protesters that can be sourced back to this ''red revolution'' will be re-imbursed to them from Thaksins sized assets.

the message will then be to the protesters, protest if you must, by all means take Thaksins 500 baht a day but if you break anything, hurt anyone or cause anyone financial losses as a result of your actions on behalf of the reds and thaksin by proxy then your beloved leader will be paying for it.

this may well damp down the protesters enthusiasm for a fight and will hurt Thaksin where he hurts most, in his pocket.

after all in this current world financial crisis why should the regular Thai tax payer be penalised for the actions of a convicted criminal billionaire orchestrating a revolution from the comfort of a $500 a night hotel room, when the government have immediate access to his funds to pay for it

he is paying for this revolution and financing its participants, why should he not be made to pay for any repercussions arising from it?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

> riot, inciting civil unrest and inciting violence

I see this a lot from the Yellow side, including from Apeshit yesterday, talking about violence and aggression.

Violence & aggression, Lesson 1:

A. Protesting in the streets, causing disruptions in traffic: That's what happens with demonstrations; par for the course.

B. Actively blocking traffic at busy interesections: Obviously a step up as it actively causes disruption. Violent and aggressive.. see below.

C. Dragging Mr. Bank Branch Manager out of his beemer on Victory Monument and setting it on fire, THAT would be violent and aggressive.

Apeshit has no idea how civil and polite things currenlty are given the potential, and chances are not many Bangkokians do.

Edited April 10, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[timekeeper]

> riot, inciting civil unrest and inciting violence

I see this a lot from the Yellow side, including from Apeshit yesterday, talking about violence and aggression.

Violence & aggression, Lesson 1:

A. Protesting in the streets, causing disruptions in traffic: That's what happens with demonstrations; par for the course.

B. Actively blocking traffic at busy interesections: Obviously a step up as it actively causes disruption. Violent and aggressive.. see below.

C. Dragging Mr. Bank Branch Manager out of his beemer on Victory Monument and setting it on fire, THAT would be violent and aggressive.

Apeshit has no idea how civil and polite things currenlty are given the potential, and chances are not many Bangkokians do.

i am not yellow or red but to me its simple economics, if a criminal commits criminal acts or incites others to do so on his behalf then in addition to criminal charges being brought against him, he should be made to pay for the results of his actions

thaksin is a convicted criminal, he ran away to avoid prosecution and imprisonment

now he pays people to do his bidding

he should be made to be criminally and financially responsible for the actions of his employees who carry out his orders