Donations For Distressed Uk Nationals

[coventry]

Obviously there are also those that just don't care and expect help all the time ,but for the sake of the freeloaders do you turn your back on everyone ?

Simple answer, YES. When I came to Thailand, I came prepared. I've thought of every scenario, from getting robbed to loosing everything I have. If I lost everything tomorrow I still could make it back to the UK without the use of the embassy, except for being issued an emergency passport, if I needed one. I've too have been bitten by trying to help someone financially and would never do it again. People down on their luck always look for the easy option, hence why embassy's are reluctant to help. They can't be seen as a soft touch or they'd be inundated with scroungers.

Edited April 9, 2009 by coventry

[Neeranam]

I would help an alcoholic/drug addict as I would someone with cancer - they are diseases that can hit anyone.

An alcholic/drug addict is someone who knew what they were getting into, it is self induced. Cancer is a totally different thing. If people want to abuse their bodies then good for them, but don't expect me to pick them up when they fall.

The American Medical Association, ,The American Psychiatric Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the World Health Organization and the American College of Physicians have also classified alcoholism as a disease.

Who should I believe - you or them?

"Alcoholism should not be judged as a problem of willpower, misconduct, or any other unscientific diagnosis. The problem must be accepted for what it is—a biopsychosocial disease with a strong genetic influence, obvious signs and symptoms, a natural progression and a fatal outcome if not treated."

Edited April 9, 2009 by Neeranam

[Livinginexile]

I would help an alcoholic/drug addict as I would someone with cancer - they are diseases that can hit anyone.

An alcholic/drug addict is someone who knew what they were getting into, it is self induced. Cancer is a totally different thing. If people want to abuse their bodies then good for them, but don't expect me to pick them up when they fall.

The American Medical Association, ,The American Psychiatric Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the World Health Organization and the American College of Physicians have also classified alcoholism as a disease.

Who should I believe - you or them?

"Alcoholism should not be judged as a problem of willpower, misconduct, or any other unscientific diagnosis. The problem must be accepted for what it is—a biopsychosocial disease with a strong genetic influence, obvious signs and symptoms, a natural progression and a fatal outcome if not treated."

Exactly, alcoholism as with all associated chemical addictions is a disease. It is not the fault of the achoholic that has this disease.

I have seen this illness claim 2 members of my own family with devistating effect. There is nothing worst than watching a loved one drinking to oblivion against their own will.

There are a couple of classic movies that deal with this subject:

"Years of wine and roses" staring Jack Lemon and

"My name is Bill W" saring James Wood.

Any unbelievers are encouraged to watch these movies.

[MSingh]

I'm kind of torn between the two camps here. Half of me sides with those who say they'd give sweet Fanny Adams as any responsible person always has back up and they don't give to irresponsible idiots. The other half thinks that you can't always cover all the bases and you can always get turned over no matter how careful you are.

Does anyone know for sure who administers the box and any donations made? Is it the embassy staff, either officially or as part of their own persoanl charitable sfforts, or is it an outside charity?

If I was ever in there, and I expect I will be one day, I expect I'd chuck a couple of hundred in just on the basis that nobody can fully predict the future and any good karma, however small, can only be a positive thing. It's always easy to kick someone when they're down but sometimes it is much more rewarding to give them a little help up again.

Not stalking you Phil but i agree with you 100% on the highlighted parts, again..

[bdenner]

As for the poll - 77% would give nothing or take money from the box - shame on you!

NO - Not shame on me! Shame on the people (some unknown) I have helped in the past without so much as a thank you. They have <deleted>#ked it for the genuine needy.

The last one I helped was a female at Don Muang, came up to me with a sob story about forgetting the 500 Baht airport tax and had no more money. All sorts of promises about paying it back, TW was fuming wanting me to get rid of her so I went to a counter and bought the tax coupon, not giving her the 500 Baht. If looks could kill I'd be dead from both sides. I'll bet her next step was to try to on sell to someone.

I promised myself that that was it NEVER AGAIN.

[rak sa_ngop]

As for the poll - 77% would give nothing or take money from the box - shame on you!

NO - Not shame on me! Shame on the people (some unknown) I have helped in the past without so much as a thank you. They have <deleted>#ked it for the genuine needy.

The last one I helped was a female at Don Muang, came up to me with a sob story about forgetting the 500 Baht airport tax and had no more money. All sorts of promises about paying it back, TW was fuming wanting me to get rid of her so I went to a counter and bought the tax coupon, not giving her the 500 Baht. If looks could kill I'd be dead from both sides. I'll bet her next step was to try to on sell to someone.

I promised myself that that was it NEVER AGAIN.

That doesn't really explain why 38pc of TV posters would 'take the bread out of a starving man's mouth'.

That is what I find surprising. I thought living in Asia teaches one tolerance and acceptance. Obviously not for some people.

[bdenner]

That doesn't really explain why 38pc of TV posters would 'take the bread out of a starving man's mouth'.

That is what I find surprising. I thought living in Asia teaches one tolerance and acceptance. Obviously not for some people.

There just taking the piss as the option was there for em too. IMO they are just saying NO but I'd like to hear the reason from anyone voting that way!

[Maizefarmer]

Not a bloody Satang - the Consular section needs to (and has been asked several times over the years) to state its policy with respect to when/where/why, and when not/where not/why not decisions are made to assist an indivual or not - and it has not. Just what are the criteri and how are they assessed?

I know someone who made a point of donating to that little box on a regular basis - monthly - and it was a very generous amount indeed.

Over the years his contributions totaled into 5 figures.

Come around 2002/03 his own circumstances took a tumble he he got messed around terribly trying to get a passport replaced - to get to see a family member before they passed on. It took over 2 weeks for the consular section to sort it out - and this was for a person who had a passport (which had expired), and had also had a passport issued in Bkk on one occassion before - so it was not as if the Consualr section didn't know who they were dealing with.

In the end he got an Emergency passport issued - good for return to the UK (where, at Heathrow upon arrival they then take it away from you).

A combination of circumstances over the same period of time lead to him running short of funds and so asked the Consular section for some financial help - if I recall correctly it was what he anticipated he would need to get through about 5 or 6 days. He was declined. He recalls the response - a shrug of the shoulders - and words along the lines that he'd have to do without and walk to the airport (can't print names here - but she is overweight, large and married to a Thai - been working in the Consular section for many years).

So - some questions for the Consular section:

1) who decides what is/is not a worthy case?

2) how is it decided?

3) who/how are donations to that box audited?

BTW - there are a couple organisations that will help ex-pats get back home in certain cases: the problem is they are not advertised, and like donating to & and using funds that are donated to such "help schemes", assessing so-called deserving cases from undeserving is frought with all sorts of problems - not least of which is that publicity of them leads to a run of applications, many of which are not last resort (i.e. ex-pats who if pushed hard enough could source help from elswhere).

Never the less, as far as the Consular section funds are concerne, till the policy and auditing is in the open - my personal advise: buy yourself another pint

Edited April 9, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[neverdie]

Zip, Zilch, Nadda!

[rak sa_ngop]

That doesn't really explain why 38pc of TV posters would 'take the bread out of a starving man's mouth'.

That is what I find surprising. I thought living in Asia teaches one tolerance and acceptance. Obviously not for some people.

There just taking the piss as the option was there for em too. IMO they are just saying NO but I'd like to hear the reason from anyone voting that way!

Maybe you are correct and the "take the money" option was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think many people would select that option just to emphasize their NOTHING feeling.

[scorecard]

My friends and I all chipped in once to get a fellow Aussie home.

His ticket had expired, he lost his passport and was facing a 20k overstay fine at the airport

The poor bugger had been in Thailand 3 years and had been robbed blind by a Thai woman and her family.

In 3 years he had lost of given away more than AU$250k. When one of my friends happened opon him he was in a backpacker hotel in KSR.

The Aussie embassy would do NOTHING to help him.

Really sad case. He's back on his feet now in Sydney but all of us never got a cent back from him, I will never help anyone else again

"The Aussie embassy would do NOTHING to help him."

I know from having to help another Australian who went broke (his own doing 100%) that the Australian embassy will contact immediate family in OZ and explain the cirmcumstances and if the family at home deposit funds for an air ticket, then the embassy will ensure the air ticket is purchased. But they will not act simply as a bank.

In the case I'm talking about the guy who went broke was highly educated and had a very substantial income but the girlie bars in Patpong got the better of him, seven nights a week. He became adicted to taking girls every night, became totally broke and an emotional nightmare and destroyed all his farang friendships.

His family did deposit his airfare and he went home. Six months later he was back in Thailand, don't know what happened to him second time around.

[Scott]

I've given enough to distressed, alcoholic, broke, uneducated UK nationals to last me a life-time. Fortunately, I liked most of them so it didn't hurt quite so much. But for the ones I don't know---nothing, absolutely nothing.

[coventry]

The American Medical Association, ,The American Psychiatric Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the World Health Organization and the American College of Physicians have also classified alcoholism as a disease.

Who should I believe - you or them?

How many people that have never taken a alchoholic drink do you know that have become 'alchoholics' by sitting next to a alchoholic ?

Why should you believe the US medical associasion ? 'Cause your American ? We were told by the Americans that Iraq possesed weapons of mass destruction and that was a load of shit. So why should we start believing what America says. A disease is an infectious condition. I don't think drinking 'alchohol' is infectious.

Edited April 9, 2009 by coventry

[fred2007]

Zip, Zilch, Nadda!

Thanks neverdie I just about to ask you for a donation to go back to OZ

[kaorop]

A disease is an infectious condition. I don't think drinking 'alchohol' is infectious.

stupidity at its finest

did you catch that off someone else?

[JimsKnight]

Depend on how the donation would be use. You would think if a UK national was in that much distress a one way ticket home should be in order, I don't know something just do not set right with a donation box for UK nationals at the Embassy or any embassy for this matter.

Well if the Brit Embassy is at the point where it needs a donations box in it then things must be very desperate for them and the Brits who've ended up 'at-the-end-of-the-road' so to speak.

As I don't have a socialist bone in my body I'd only help on a case by case basis. I.E if it was some guy I personally knew to be in deep sht from circumstances outside his control. Then I'd help where possible.

But just dumping cash in the tin for complete strangers who often have themselves to blame is just lunacy in my eyes.

None from me I'm afraid.

[MJo]

Would be nice to know how many here are in the biz themselfs. Making their income from donated or tax payers money under government aid/development organizations, UN, NGO's and the like. It might explain the differences in opinion we can see here.

Like someone said, without any assurance or information how the money is used nothing from me. I spend good few years working in poorest places in Africa and saw first hand where your donations actually go with the UN, NGO's and the like. It is unbelievable how much of the money goes to fat expat salaries and outright scams and corruption.

One good example was my german neighbour who declared all purchases way over with fake receipts. Best money was in cars. Budget says $15K, car bought for $7k to $8k and receipt written for full $15K. All in the open and his explanation was that he needs to do it as his salary is so low. His base salary was in the range of $10k per month + accommodation and other allowances. All paid by german taxpayers.

For UN it is amazing how much staff is employed driving around with company tax free land cruizers pocketing most of the money allocated to actual aid or development.

I've paid few young lad's schooling for a year, purchased new clothes and shoes for the children in the street. Give them food and sometimes money. All straight from my pocket. The only way to ensure the money goes where it's needed the most.

[Neeranam]

A disease is an infectious condition. I don't think drinking 'alchohol' is infectious.

stupidity at its finest

did you catch that off someone else?

[eldar1]

I'd give a few baht to help someone in need. I've gotten ripped off a couple of times and i've almost never gotten any money back, but it isn't called charity for nothing is it? I don't think anyone on this earth purposely tries to do badly, there are just lots of people that have gotten the short end of the stick. If i help someone less fortunate than myself, i don't expect anything back. Yes, a thank you would be nice but even that's not neccesary because i'm secure in the thought that i helped someone out because i wanted to, nothing more.

It seems that people would rather punish the many for the sins of a few and that's pretty than face the possibility that their hard earned money gets misused.

[sanook2me]

If you have had a full UK education there is no reason for anyone to be begging from the UK embassy in Thailand -

Its a disgrace and shameful - but these people feel nothing as they are low life scum chancers who operate on the basis that people owe them for some reason and they behave the same where ever they are.

Maybe there are a few cases that deserve sympathy but then I would expect those people to get support from family or friends as they wouldn't have ripped them off in the past and friends or family would be willing to help.

Jeeze man £500 to get back to the UK is cheap for a one off time- a normal, decent, respectful, law abiding citizen would have a credit card to use and the forsight to have a back up plan

A scumbag, chancer, lowlife, druggie, serial abuser(drink, drugs, people. etc )won't have a credit card or family or friends to help them out financially because they would have abused this in the past.

Sorry, no help from me.

Jog on

[sassienie]

I have no sympathy for losers, but would willingly help someone who is down on their luck.

Problem is, how do we make distinctions between the two?

[PhilHarries]

I have no sympathy for losers, but would willingly help someone who is down on their luck.

Problem is, how do we make distinctions between the two?

That's life, full of tough calls. Some we get right and some we don't but one bad decision should not be used as an excuse to apply a blanket veto on all future cases. Judge each person, each situation on it's own merit and make the decision based on the facts, those that are known and those claimed by the individual.

[saeanao]

The UK should repatriate its citizens and then withhold their passports until they have repaid the cost of repatriation.

[keestha]

The UK should repatriate its citizens and then withhold their passports until they have repaid the cost of repatriation.

From my hippy days (seventies) I remember they used to do this. They were flown back first class, as a punishment, and got back their passport after having paid the cost of repatriation.

Dutch embassies used to give just enough money to make it to the Dutch embassy in the next country, plus a letter to go across the border, passport already being retained. At the embassy in the next country the process would be repeated, till they made it back home.

I think both The UK and the Netherlands have stopped giving this type of help, there are just too many people getting into trouble, and nowadays the notion is stronger that those in trouble have themselves to blame.

But even back in the seventies, French embassies categorically refused to give any type of help, ordering people to get out of the embassy without even looking at them. Down and out French citizens who claimed to have lost their passport, were told: You have sold it, just buy it back.

[sanook2me]

The UK should repatriate its citizens and then withhold their passports until they have repaid the cost of repatriation.

How do they recover the cost once loser/abuser is back in the UK? free one way flights ! The tossers would never dream of paying that debt back to the tax payer

At least it means the scrounging scumbags couldn't make it back here as they would never pay the government back for their passport...

But then the smart ones could wear a burkha works everytime !

[keestha]

It is easy to sit on your high horse and talk about losers, but as a previous poster pointed out, mental illness can strike at any time.

When it is about helping people, life offers tough choices sometimes.

Kovalam, Kerala/India, 1991

Having a tea at a beachside cafe in the beach resort Kovalam, I spotted a very ragged and dirty looking westerner. Of course he choose me of all people, to walk up to and start a conversation with. He was English. Appeared he had been in Asia for one and a half year already, it was meant to be just a long backpacking holiday after having graduated from law school. Soon it became clear the guy was in a very confused mental state, he told me he was hearing voices. When I suggested him to go home, he told me his mother, with whom he still had telephone contact occasionally, wanted him to go home..

Later the local people told me no hotel/guesthouse accepted this guy anymore, among other things he had been walking along the beach naked.

I considered contacting the guys mother, try to gain her trust and have her wire money, and then taking him to the airport to fly to New Delhi, and putting him on a London bound flight there. It would be the only possible way to help him.

Being afraid of endangering myself though, I decided against it. Till the present day it still weighs on my conscience a little bit.

[MysteryPlane]

Visiting the British Embassy, consular section, I noticed that there was a donation box for distressed nationals in the waiting room. There certainly were a few distressed looking people (men) hanging round so I assume this money is distributed to them.

Anyway after I made a donation I got to thinking that generally I would not give money to somebody on the street. But of course there must be some genuinely distressed nationals who actually DO want to go home, as opposed to using hand-outs to sustain their existence in Thailand.

What would you do? How much would you donate?

Personally I think it discracefull and embarasing that eduacted people from my counrty would allow themselve's to become destitute in a foriegn country.

Personal management, allow x amount for ticket home, easy.

How many peopkle do you know that are here short saty or long stay that are working illegaly here in Thailand, bet they are the first to moan about about foriegner's working in England, hypocrisy at its highest.

[sanook2me]

It is easy to sit on your high horse and talk about losers, but as a previous poster pointed out, mental illness can strike at any time.

When it is about helping people, life offers tough choices sometimes.

Kovalam, Kerala/India, 1991

Having a tea at a beachside cafe in the beach resort Kovalam, I spotted a very ragged and dirty looking westerner. Of course he choose me of all people, to walk up to and start a conversation with. He was English. Appeared he had been in Asia for one and a half year already, it was meant to be just a long backpacking holiday after having graduated from law school. Soon it became clear the guy was in a very confused mental state, he told me he was hearing voices. When I suggested him to go home, he told me his mother, with whom he still had telephone contact occasionally, wanted him to go home..

Later the local people told me no hotel/guesthouse accepted this guy anymore, among other things he had been walking along the beach naked.

I considered contacting the guys mother, try to gain her trust and have her wire money, and then taking him to the airport to fly to New Delhi, and putting him on a London bound flight there. It would be the only possible way to help him.

Being afraid of endangering myself though, I decided against it. Till the present day it still weighs on my conscience a little bit.

Thats not mental illness but too many good drugs in India

Get a grip with reality dude! if a person is on the scrounge at the UK embassy they are lowlife scumbag, scrounging chancers who will do you over in second.

Fine if you want to call the ability to scrounge/scab/lie/cheat Mental illness then thats what we'll call it.

[daveb1]

No way - "I would take money out of the box if I could." They should have rainy day money saved, no one ever helped me so why should i help them.

Can I just ad two sayings!

What you give out in life you get back good or bad!

and..................don’t judge another person until you have walked a mile in there shoes

Still i guess its that attitude above that made the USA great

Edited April 10, 2009 by daveb1

[sanook2me]

No way - "I would take money out of the box if I could." They should have rainy day money saved, no one ever helped me so why should i help them.

Can I just ad two sayings!

What you give out in life you get back good or bad!

and..................don’t judge another person until you have walked a mile in there shoes

Still i guess its that attitude above that made the USA great

Wow! Are you one of the chancers at the embassy with smart remarks like this - lets all feel guilty about having money in our pockets !

I feel a little guilt when I walk past a severely disabled/limbless person begging with a cup or the sellers hawking their 5/10 baht stuff (i have the upmost respect for these / especially the older men who make things from bamboo or used drink cans. They are using their ideas and have self respect)

I happily give to good causes

- of my choice -

So take your sanctimonious babble back to your bible belt and preach to someone who gives <deleted>!!!!!

Anyone who has had a full Western education has no place begging anywhere! especially in a 3rd, 2nd World country ! its comical