Red-shirts Battle Blue-shirts In Pattaya

[spidercat]

Scumbags are now leaving the hotel.

Cheering and behaving like idiots.

That's no way to describe our esteemed ASEAN visitors!

Hahaha- There I was just reading the thread with a great deal of concern for the future of this land and I get to your post and had to chuckle.

[Koo82]

Not exactly the class struggle.

One is for democracy, for the benefits of majority of Thais. Many of them are not poor at all.

One is for the original class who has controlled Thailand over 70 years. Leaders must be from this group. 200 famous family names in Thailand are those who have chances to grow. Other people cannot hold important positions. They work for their own benefits.

[rafval]

When this number of people coming to call democracy back, the thick faced government who is representative for the ruling class still ignores people's opinion.

theres 60,000,000 people in Thailand, lets say 30,000,000 are voting age, that crowd at the most is 100,000, thats 0.3 of a percent of voters, Im not saying their views should be disregarded but to say they represent the majority is pure speculation, they may just have to wait for the next elections as happens in other democracies

Edited April 11, 2009 by rafval

[JacknDanny]

The reds did not start the violence in Pattaya.

Can any say for certain who these guys in Blue or sometimes Black are?

PAD? Army?

they are definitly hired thugs.

hired by whom ? my guess is hired and financed by

1. goverment

2. army or police

3. PAD

as to hide their involvement and responsibility

So in other words, you havent got a clue

Suggest you add,

4) The tooth fairy

5) The Easter Bunny

[Africanteacher]

Oh and by the way.....it is their country and they will (and should) solve this their own way........

That's true. But then again this would be such a boring forum, wouldn't it?

[JacknDanny]

Not exactly the class struggle.

One is for democracy, for the benefits of majority of Thais. Many of them are not poor at all.

One is for the original class who has controlled Thailand over 70 years. Leaders must be from this group. 200 famous family names in Thailand are those who have chances to grow. Other people cannot hold important positions. They work for their own benefits.

And Thaksin doesnt do all that and is not a believer in nepotism at all.

You really are a classic Koo

[edwardmoulton]

Well I have to say I support the reds, but not communism or any kind of dictatorship.

What Thaksin did was to challenge the higher classes, who are a dictatorship of their own. I think we can expect to see a civil war after the current monarchy ends. At that point my family and I will be moving to Singapore, which is like Bangkok but without the S**t.

Pretty much my sentiments.

[rainman]

The reds did not start the violence in Pattaya.

Can any say for certain who these guys in Blue or sometimes Black are?

PAD? Army?

they are definitly hired thugs.

hired by whom ? my guess is hired and financed by

1. goverment

2. army or police

3. PAD

as to hide their involvement and responsibility

So in other words, you havent got a clue

Suggest you add,

4) The tooth fairy

5) The Easter Bunny

I completely agree with you there. Putting the government, the army, the police and the PAD in the same category as the tooth fairy and the easter bunny sounds about right.

[edwardmoulton]

Not exactly the class struggle.

One is for democracy, for the benefits of majority of Thais. Many of them are not poor at all.

One is for the original class who has controlled Thailand over 70 years. Leaders must be from this group. 200 famous family names in Thailand are those who have chances to grow. Other people cannot hold important positions. They work for their own benefits.

And Thaksin doesnt do all that and is not a believer in nepotism at all.

You really are a classic Koo

Koo is spot on. Those are the facts for thjose who care to find them out. THis is not about Thaksin winning, it is about changing the old corrupt systems and giving fairness.

[photojourn]

If this forum was populated by rice farmers and small store owners from Northern Thailand, I think the posting would sound a lot different to a bunch of falangs living in their air-conditioned condos in Bankok. Have any of you people actually met anyone from rural Thailand?? This is a classic class struggle. According to the postings on here, everyone from both sides is a thug, so I guess it now depends on which thugs you wish to win in the end......the thugs representing the wealthy minority elites, or the thugs representing the tens of millions of disenfranchised Thai's who have been kept down by the feudal barons for generations. You call Thaksin a thug, but whatever he was, he did a hel_l of a lot more for the underprivliged in this country than anyone before or since.......thats why they are out there demanding change. I personally like the present PM.....he is educated, articulate and likely a genuinely decent guy.......I'm not so impressed by those around him. My wife has a few friends who are at the "Red" rally.....they are very decent, sincere, hardworking people.......and nobody is paying them anything to be there. Many of the reds there now, were not even Thaksin supporters when he was in power.....this has now become a coalition of groups who are just pissed off at the "old politics" and the elites who control them. They may collectively use Thaksin as a figurehead, and he may in turn use them to further his cause, but so what?

Oh and by the way.....it is their country and they will (and should) solve this their own way without advise from falangland. If its all so shit- hot back home......go there.

I agree with your sentiments. The same people who insisted I was wrong with my estimate of the number of people at the rally on Wednesday are the same people who continually label the whole red shirt movement as uneducated thugs. Having covered the rallies for the last couple of days I have met many very educated people wearing red.

The people posting the most on here have never been near the rallies, never talked to a red shirt supporter but post their opinions and views as if they have. Probably the reason being that it's to hard for them to move their walking frames and oxygen bottles through the crowd. I wonder how these same people would react should groups such as the PAD suggest their governments should be formed on a 70 per cent appointed basis?

This is not just about Thaksin and I suspect an attempt by Thaksin to come back and rule will not be met favorably by many who are wearing red today. It's about a fair deal for all and not just for the hi-so's in Bangkok.

[JacknDanny]

Not exactly the class struggle.

One is for democracy, for the benefits of majority of Thais. Many of them are not poor at all.

One is for the original class who has controlled Thailand over 70 years. Leaders must be from this group. 200 famous family names in Thailand are those who have chances to grow. Other people cannot hold important positions. They work for their own benefits.

And Thaksin doesnt do all that and is not a believer in nepotism at all.

You really are a classic Koo

Koo is spot on. Those are the facts for thjose who care to find them out. THis is not about Thaksin winning, it is about changing the old corrupt systems and giving fairness.

Quick, bring me another strait jacket

[monkfish]

Free and fair elections are not gonna happen in Thailand for light years so stop dreaming man.

When people give their vote to the guy that pays the most, elections are purely and simply a joke which is exactly what Thailand is in the eyes of the world.

Elections are the same the world over.

Buy votes?

Look at campaign spending in the USA & think it is any different?

Spend the most & win period.

There are no free & fair elections anywhere but a tally of votes bought or not is as close

as your going to get IMHO

A friend of mine was paid by both sides to vote and then voted for who he wanted.

I don't think vote buying really works.

[rogercw]

I live in Pattaya on tappraya Road and have seen a lot of police yesterday and today but not a single red-shirt. Traffic has been screwed up though.

A government spokesman has said the government had nothing to do with the blue-shirts, who are concerned local citizens. We are supposed to believe that a bunch of young local males all spontaneously decided to put on the same colored shirts and go down to the Royal Cliff, line up in formation, and get ready to fight the red-shirts? Even in Thailand this stretches credulity just a tad.

So as falangs we must, in order not to be making political statements, refrain from wearing yellow, red, and now blue shirts.

[Zebadee45]

I am surprised at the condescending attitude some of the posters have towards what they call 'uneducated low class Thai's' but i wouldn't be surprised if those posters are sitting in there Sukhumvit condo's passing their judgement.

Time to distance myself from Thaivisa

[henryalleman]

Much to do about nothing compared with the riots at a G20 meeting.

In Pattaye its just a rumble of a few hooligans, there is more disruption after a European cup football.

Do you honestly believe that the participants of the ASEAN meeting are bothered with it? Its just some sideshow for them, that's all, they have seen much more worse.

This article I wrote yesterday, and nothing has changed my opinion yet.

Lets call a spade a spade.

The red shirts failed completely to organize a mass demonstration, and they did not succeeded any of their goals or targets

First they announced 1 million people, they could hardly get 100 000 and even that number came down rapidly after a few hours.

They proclaimed that they will demonstrate all over the country, also this failed.

They announced they will block the traffic in Bangkok completely by 20 000 taxis, also this failed, even that much that by standers pushed away the blocking taxis and burned red flags while the crowd was cheering GO AWAY. Did you see in YouTube how the taxis drove away to escape from the anger of the public. And I wrote PUBLIC not yellow shirts.

They announced that they will block the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya, they failed. I just saw some news covering on TV that the participants of the meeting where joking on the terrace of the hotel about the pathetic attempt of the red shirts to enter the hotel.

My wife is in Chiang Mai on a family visit, she did not see any demonstration, and not even see a red shirt. And this is in a so called stronghold of the red's.

They announced that ten thousands demonstrators from issan will come to Bangkok, where are they?

Its very clear that you didn't have the support from the Thai public nationwide, even worse they start to dislike you and showed it very clear on a few occasions.

So all red shirts fan in this forum accept your defeat with grace, lick your wounds of your shattered dreams and ego and move on. Don't blame others for your defeat, because you created your defeat by yourself.

And if you are genuine to the reforms you demanded, get rid of Thaksin and his cronies and start to work on new party with new young politicians and distance yourself from nitwits like Chalerm and Samak and do what any opposition party is doing in a democracy, oppose in the parliament and not on the streets. And use the time to the next election to reform your movement and make a decent political plan with a better future for the country you claim to love.

You learned a hard lesson so you should learn from it. And maybe this can even benefit you in the future not making the same mistakes.

So we can conclude that besides a few thousands hardcore red shirts, the public did not support you at all.

Even Thaksin, at last start to understand that his game is over, that's why he stopped his phone-ins and let his family flee the country.

THE GAME IS OVER, BECAUSE YOU PLAYED WITH THE WRONG CARDS AND LOST.

Kind regards and wish you the best

henry

Errr - not sure what channel you are watching but you seem to be a bit behind!

I wrote that comment yesterday April 10th.

Fair enough. In the light of recent events would you like to update it?

yes, but only this part.

They announced that they will block the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya, they failed. I just saw some news covering on TV that the participants of the meeting where joking on the terrace of the hotel about the pathetic attempt of the red shirts to enter the hotel.

IMHO Abhisit is playing the game very intelligent not using violence yet, more and more the red's are loosing credibility with the Thai population. Because lets face facts, there is no general support from the Thai people to the red's.

The pattaya situation will give him the opportunity to let some heads role from senior police and army officers, and maybe even a reshuffle of his cabinet.

I think he study Sun Tze very well.

Lets evaluate the situation end of next week to see if I'm correct or not.

[spidercat]

So in other words, you havent got a clue

Suggest you add,

4) The tooth fairy

5) The Easter Bunny

I completely agree with you there. Putting the government, the army, the police and the PAD in the same category as the tooth fairy and the easter bunny sounds about right.

Good answer rainman!

[Merangue]

Well the protests appear to be getting stronger as time goes on.

Thailand is becoming a laughing stock even more than before and reports from those who i know, that directly support the red shirts, show an awfully large amount of passion for their cause.

They will not go away now they have had some success.

By the way while i was in Pattaya last month for a couple of days, i met a fair number of red shirts there at an Isaan based club.

Possibly half of the main group were Police officers and a couple of them were pretty high in rank. These were the people selling red shirts and drumming up support.

I think you will find the police are split in their support themselves so will almost certainly be ineffective in any crowd control.

[JacknDanny]

I completely agree with you there. Putting the government, the army, the police and the PAD in the same category as the tooth fairy and the easter bunny sounds about right.

Funny I dont see you castigating the actions of a mob who has caused damage and destruction to property, armed and dangerous, and who have caused a multi national summit to be cancelled.

Couldnt keep you off here a while back complaining about the yellows at the airport!!

Whats the difference?

Excepting the fact that a couple of your Ebay parcels got delayed

Double Standards rainman, just like the rest of the deluded reds.

[edwardmoulton]

Agreed. In fact he should get rid of his whole cabinet (and maybe himself). In fact, let's call an election rather than wait till end of next week and see more trouble...

If you ever needed proff that there is little thought going into any decision by the government, consider this. The government has just imposed emergency law in Pattaya so no more than 5 people can meet in public. So Songkran is cancelled there? All ten or so days of it...

[MyphuketLife]

When this number of people coming to call democracy back, the thick faced government who is representative for the ruling class still ignores people's opinion.

This small amount of protestors do not represent the "voice" of thai people just as the yellows did not represent the "voice" of thailand.

You are talking about both RED and YELLOW a small fraction of Thai's that are acting out in horrible ways.

[rixalex]

My wife tells me that in most of Issan Thaksin is referred to as "Paw".

Your wife is from Isaan? And you support the reds? I'm shocked!

Could there be a connection?

[CrossBones]

Seems quite evident that there is no rule of law in Thailand. The police and army cant protect their own government. Infact they are complicit in disorder. How can the authorities just stand by whilst these reds, yellows, pinks or cabbage colours set up stages with bands and equipment - install road blocks etc. etc.They are either complicit or completley useless.

Thais have again show the world that they are - - - - - - (fill in the gaps)

Sorry, to be fair it's the result of years or

generations of generations of people being obedient,

compliant to superiors (Puu Yai), who ever that might be,

nobody of "lower ranks" in society,

ever learned or had the guts to stand up and say:

"NO, enough is enough"!

One can get rid of frustrations in a couple of rounds of Muay Thai

and for the squeamish there is the threshold of the temples and monk hood!

It looks a nowadays, few still can follow who is who..

in this whole affair!

WAY TOO MANY "PUU YAI'S" AND WAY TOO MANY ROADS! TO CHOOSE FROM!

This is very Thai, the very core of it's social fabric!

Name it inheritance of years and years honoring the "old traditions"

of basically saying "yes" to what ever or just smile!

beware face at whatever cost!

The spirit of the "Land of Smiles" seems to come to haunt it with a

vengeance - people will be forced to understand and change or loose it all

to the Burma-Laos-Cambodia-Syndrome!

Well said, you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

When you have this kind of society where people are not conditioned to think for themselves... then of course this kind of situation is inevitable.

Reminds of me of a Monty Python Sketch "Yes... we are all individuals"! - but actually not so funny.

This situation is going to get much much worse.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Can I just extend a big 'WELL DONE' to the Red Heroes who just pulled off a great victory!!

[visions]

I am not alighned with any movement, in fact I have no bias at all except for correct political democracy and rights.

However..........

The fact remains.....the DEMOCRATICLY elected overnment was brought down by a few behind the scene string pullers manipulating a few hundred yellow people for their own greed (ends) and installed a group of "puppets" to do their bidding.....

Now that the majority of people demand a new (fairly run) election, they are in the wrong??? Note.....asking for an election not a return to the previous government ....

If the present administration (if you can call it that) have confidence in their ability and believe they are right, why not hold an election???

The yellows were given free rein to kill and maime....and wreck the Thai economy......

The reds have been peacefull to date...only putting pressure to bear for a fair deal......why condemm the reds from acting withing their rights?

[jayboy]

I think Abasit would have done better to hold the ASEAN meetings in Jomtien bars that way they would have been nice & quiet

I think South Africa might have been a suitable location, as per the arrangement made with the Indian cricket team.

[BigSnake]

Thought these red shirts would CHILL, boy was I ever WRONG.

[Gonzo the Face]

I have been following this topic now for a couple days and have read most posts and comments.

I don't think the yellows are IT, but I think the reds are less IT.

But I must say to Koo, your dogma and belief are the stuff that makes brainwashing credible..

You are a person that would make a cult leader jump for joy.

Mc2 and Koo, another dimension, .... the 5th isn't it Marilyn.....

Throw in moulton and another or 2 and we got our selves quite a group.

Koo , you and I do not agree , but I can see what appears to be a very good education going to waste........ I'm afraid the fall will be hard

Edited April 11, 2009 by Gonzo the Face

[rainman]

Funny I dont see you castigating the actions of a mob who has caused damage and destruction to property, armed and dangerous, and who have caused a multi national summit to be cancelled.

Funny I didn't see you condemn the actions of the PAD when they sized several airports, armed and dangerous, caused damage to the government house, stole all the valuable property there and more.

But you're right, today's actions by the UDD were wrong in my opinion. Now if you can admit that the actions of the PAD were wrong and were the ones that got the "protesting-to-kick-out-the-government" started, that's a step forward

Edited April 11, 2009 by rainman

[hammered]

I think Abasit would have done better to hold the ASEAN meetings in Jomtien bars that way they would have been nice & quiet

I think South Africa might have been a suitable location, as per the arrangement made with the Indian cricket team.

Nice one

[NanLaew]

I wonder when the Thais will realise that this is a battle between Royalists and Republicans??

Oh I think they all KNOW this very well. It's just that nobody can SAY it.