What Are Your Opinions On The Third Sex

[oevna]

I doubt that most Thai ladyboys have ever taken money for sex. They believe they are women, and act accordingly. Surely only a small number of straight Thai males, gay Thai males, or straight Thai females have ever taken money for sex.

Agreed. Just some people who seem stuck in a tourist-nightlife scene may end up with a somewhat skewed perspective on reality in the wider world in Thailand.

I'm not sure if PeaceBlondie was using a hint of sarcasm (JetsetBkk's interpretation, and the one I'm leaning towards), or just speaking in relative terms (WinnieTheKhwai's interpretation). In absolute numbers, the estimates vary widely but are anywhere from 500,000 to almost 3 million, which is more than what I would call a small number. This does not only represent the sector of the sex industry that caters to foreign tourists; it includes the sector that serves the local population, which is much larger and less visible to visiting tourists.

[Brigante7]

To my mind, if it was born male, then he's a he regardless of whatever surgery he's had done. With few exceptions, ladyboys are basically men living a fantasy life as women.

Correct.

[ernest1966]

I read an article one about brain shape, LB's and homosexuality.

In the case of a homosexual man the brain is shaped like a womans brain, same for LBs.

It said that homosexual men are basically LBs who have for one reason or another NOT gone the "full course"

This change in brain shape is due to to much estrogen in the mother going to the baby.

Its nothing to do with choice or upbringing.

[Brigante7]

First of all, I want to preface my answers with the statement that I am not homophobic, and I have no animosity towards people who become transvestites or transsexuals. It's a personal choice, and they should have the right to make that choice.

Why do you have to state that you're not homophobic? Just because somebody doesn't like gay people doesn't make them a bad person.

Brigante7.

[Brigante7]

There is no 3rd sex, there are 2 sex's male & female.

Brigante7.

[daoyai]

BTW

whats all this crap of calling them 3rd sex,maybe to justify the anal sex.

a man that wants to be a woman is not 3rd sexy,it is a trans sexual,pre-op or post-op.

the name 3rd sex is purely to make it sound ok to pay for one.

The term comes from the Thai name for them, phet tii saam (เพศที่สาม), which literally means "third gender". It has nothing to do with anal sex or any sex act, nor to do with justifying paying for sex. In this usage, the word "sex" means "gender". (Interestingly, the Thai word phet (เพศ) has this same double meaning of "gender" and "coitus" as the English word "sex".) I realize that you are not a native speaker of English (or don't appear to be), so the confusion is understandable. Look up the word sex for a more detailed explanation of the subtlety in differences between its various meanings.

"The third sex" usually refers to men who identify themselves as being psychologically women, some of whom go through gender reassignment surgery to become physically women. They are also sometimes called saao praphet song (สาวประเภทสอง), meaning "second kind of woman." The other direction is less common (i.e. women who identify as men), but they do exist. Obviously, female-to-male gender reassignment surgery is much more difficult. I have never heard of a case of it, but perhaps it has been done.

Female to male gender reassignment is possible. The procedure though rare is known as an "addadicktome"

[canuckamuck]

Men dressed as women acting like women are transvestites and by and large and as a sweeping generalisation are not attractive to gay men. I don't mean to be rude but it seems that a lot of you straight blokes seem unable to think this gay thing through to its logical conclusion. Gay men are attracted to other men - that is men who look like men and dress like men. Some gay men may be effeminate - they're the ones you straighties notice but there are lots of gay men who aren't effeminate and who you'd never realise were gay unless they told you. Gay men aren't attracted to men dressed up as women - they're attracted to men dressed up as men.

So do gay men sometimes like women who dress like men?

[oevna]

First of all, I want to preface my answers with the statement that I am not homophobic, and I have no animosity towards people who become transvestites or transsexuals. It's a personal choice, and they should have the right to make that choice.

Why do you have to state that you're not homophobic? Just because somebody doesn't like gay people doesn't make them a bad person.

Brigante7.

You are reading too much into it. Nowhere did I say that disliking gay people made anyone a bad person. I personally have less respect for people who are homophobic, but so what? That's my issue (and it also doesn't make me a bad person, since you brought that up). I felt that the statement was relevant to my point, to clarify that I didn't intend any disrespect to gay people.

[mmushr00m]

I have no problems with them I actually have more problems with those overly effeminate thai guys.

But the way I see it discrimination is a very slippery slope. It can easily go from LBs to gay (sexuality) to religion to race to skin colour to (insert your prejudice here).

[redscouse]

... because the consensus was gays are not interested in LBs, only guys.

That surprises me... I thought you had to be gay/bisexual to be interested in a LB?

Why do you think a gay man would be attracted to someone who's gone to all that effort to make themselves look as much as possible like a woman? Gay men are attracted to other men.

I need an education ,

If gay men are attracted to other men why is there so many camp gays? dressing like women acting like a woman.

Its late and i'm confused soz

colino

thats what annoys me about toms and dee's, if you are lesbian and therefore like women, why have a relationship with a fat female dwarf? why sleep with a woman that looks like an ugly man?

[redscouse]

First of all, I want to preface my answers with the statement that I am not homophobic, and I have no animosity towards people who become transvestites or transsexuals. It's a personal choice, and they should have the right to make that choice.

Why do you have to state that you're not homophobic? Just because somebody doesn't like gay people doesn't make them a bad person.

Brigante7.

You are reading too much into it. Nowhere did I say that disliking gay people made anyone a bad person. I personally have less respect for people who are homophobic, but so what? That's my issue (and it also doesn't make me a bad person, since you brought that up). I felt that the statement was relevant to my point, to clarify that I didn't intend any disrespect to gay people.

Why would you have less respect for someone who is homophobic? Do you have less respect for people who who suffer from acrophobia or arachnophobia?

People always accuse people who dislike gays of homophobia, it isn't, the clue is in the name, it's a phobia.

Homophobia (from Greek homós: one and the same; phóbos: fear, phobia) is an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality, homosexuals,^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia#cite_note-Webster-0} or individuals perceived as homosexual. Some definitions lack the "irrational" component. Wki

oevna, not wanting to get into an argument with you, but read your post, you are basically saying that you have less respect for someone that has less respect for someone, if you can form an opinion on who to respect then surely that person can form an opinion of who to respect.

[endure]

Men dressed as women acting like women are transvestites and by and large and as a sweeping generalisation are not attractive to gay men. I don't mean to be rude but it seems that a lot of you straight blokes seem unable to think this gay thing through to its logical conclusion. Gay men are attracted to other men - that is men who look like men and dress like men. Some gay men may be effeminate - they're the ones you straighties notice but there are lots of gay men who aren't effeminate and who you'd never realise were gay unless they told you. Gay men aren't attracted to men dressed up as women - they're attracted to men dressed up as men.

So do gay men sometimes like women who dress like men?

No - they like men.

[oevna]

Why would you have less respect for someone who is homophobic? Do you have less respect for people who who suffer from acrophobia or arachnophobia?

People always accuse people who dislike gays of homophobia, it isn't, the clue is in the name, it's a phobia.

Homophobia (from Greek homós: one and the same; phóbos: fear, phobia) is an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality, homosexuals,^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia#cite_note-Webster-0} or individuals perceived as homosexual. Some definitions lack the "irrational" component. Wki

oevna, not wanting to get into an argument with you, but read your post, you are basically saying that you have less respect for someone that has less respect for someone, if you can form an opinion on who to respect then surely that person can form an opinion of who to respect.

I don't mind you asking, and I don't take it as getting into an argument. But since you brought it up...

Don't you think that's a little pedantic? I am well aware of the etymology of the word homophobia, but its contemporary usage has a more negative connotation than simply fearing something, as the definition that you posted explains. Read the whole article that you referenced and you will see that it encompasses much more than just fear of gay people. It includes discrimination against them, which is a choice that a person makes. I don't dislike people for being the way that they were born (which I believe to be the case for gay people), but I do dislike people who choose to discriminate against them.

Besides, I am free to dislike anyone I please, just as homophobic people are free to dislike gay people.

Edited April 15, 2009 by oevna

[oevna]

I need an education ,

If gay men are attracted to other men why is there so many camp gays? dressing like women acting like a woman.

Its late and i'm confused soz

colino

thats what annoys me about toms and dee's, if you are lesbian and therefore like women, why have a relationship with a fat female dwarf? why sleep with a woman that looks like an ugly man?

Well, if they aren't the same women you are interested in, then why do you care? They aren't cutting into your game.

[dsprtliving]

Men dressed as women acting like women are transvestites and by and large and as a sweeping generalisation are not attractive to gay men. I don't mean to be rude but it seems that a lot of you straight blokes seem unable to think this gay thing through to its logical conclusion. Gay men are attracted to other men - that is men who look like men and dress like men. Some gay men may be effeminate - they're the ones you straighties notice but there are lots of gay men who aren't effeminate and who you'd never realise were gay unless they told you. Gay men aren't attracted to men dressed up as women - they're attracted to men dressed up as men.

So do gay men sometimes like women who dress like men?

It's funny you mention this as there have been the rare occasion living in Thailand that I have seen a "Tom" on a bus or in passing and thought to myself...hey...she's kinda cute for a girl. However, simply knowing that underneath that masculine exterior lies female cancels out the imagination running any further!

[NanLaew]

With respect to the OP and with deference to the late, great Frankie Howerd, "Should lovers be frank and ernest or should one of them preferably be a woman?"