Is Thai Education Really That Bad?

[Sakeopete]

Honestly I think the culture tends to hold back many bright minds in Thailand. The teachers in public school system seem to have very little if any training, especially in villages where I'm guessing that many of the positions are filled through bribes or given to family members.

"

I remember reading a thread where an expat English teacher in a Bangkok private school complained that the Thai teachers were telling the students that "whales lay the largest eggs" and "don't sleep under a tree at night or you will suffocate". he was told to keep his mouth shut because correcting the students would cause a loss of face to the Thai teachers.

My Thai sister-in-law was taught in a small village school, she learned to speak excellent English and can also speak fluent Italian (Italian husband). She faced many hurdles in school but was very lucky to have a Thai teacher that studied in the USA. He encouraged his students and had a high number of them graduate university so there are gems out there just not enogh to help most students.

I met a family at Jumi Car in Bangkok, the children were under ten years old and spoke perfect English. Their mother was obviously trying to impress me and she did. After speaking to her she told me that in the family home the children were forbidden to speak Thai. She said they received enough Thai at school and with their friends, her methodology seems to have worked.

[JR Texas]

Honestly I think the culture tends to hold back many bright minds in Thailand. The teachers in public school system seem to have very little if any training, especially in villages where I'm guessing that many of the positions are filled through bribes or given to family members.

"

I remember reading a thread where an expat English teacher in a Bangkok private school complained that the Thai teachers were telling the students that "whales lay the largest eggs" and "don't sleep under a tree at night or you will suffocate". he was told to keep his mouth shut because correcting the students would cause a loss of face to the Thai teachers.

My Thai sister-in-law was taught in a small village school, she learned to speak excellent English and can also speak fluent Italian (Italian husband). She faced many hurdles in school but was very lucky to have a Thai teacher that studied in the USA. He encouraged his students and had a high number of them graduate university so there are gems out there just not enogh to help most students.

I met a family at Jumi Car in Bangkok, the children were under ten years old and spoke perfect English. Their mother was obviously trying to impress me and she did. After speaking to her she told me that in the family home the children were forbidden to speak Thai. She said they received enough Thai at school and with their friends, her methodology seems to have worked.

One culturally-ingrained impediment is the concept that young kids are stupid and must be treated like children.

I think some kids are very smart and if challenged can perform way beyond expectations.

Teachers need to get away from the "they can't possibly do that" mentality.

When I was young a very smart woman told me something that impacted my life: You can do anything you want to do.

I believed her and refused to accept culturally-imposed limitations.

[Sabum]

I was preparing the top students at my school (M3 level, 14 year olds) for a general knowledge quiz, and asked them, "What is the name of the star that is closest to the earth?" None of them could answer. (It's the sun, obviously). The only things the Thai children are taught is Thai language, culture and history, and some math. For the most part, in all other school subjects, they complete their education at a primary school level by western standards.

ugh!! the sun is not a star. maybe your students saw your gaff but did not want to show you up.

are you an ameican teacher here in thailand?

LOL! CAF, Bad enough you show how badly your own personal education was you then go on to criticise the poster and try to infer that his "american" education was bad..... this should be in the dictionary as an example of the word fool.

[fiddlehead]

Reading through most of the posts on this thread, i find many very interesting thoughts.

I agree that most of us learned a different system than is taught today.

However, Google is going to certainly change the way today's kids learn.

So, schools should be teaching logic, creative thinking, and problem solving among things to give the students a desire to learn.

As to the bad grammar, spelling, bad abbreviations, I'm afraid to say, i think it's going to get worse before it gets better because of the internet.

Now, a little story: A friend of my Thai wife's was visiting and told me I was lucky to be a farang as i could easily make more money.

I said, but I have my own business (I sell clothes online) and she could do the same. (I've made my mistakes and learned through Google and trial and error and some friends who have helped me along the way)

After some discussion, she mentioned that she even had a degree from a Thai university. I said, "oh, well then, draw me a map of Asia and show me where China is in relation to Thailand". She said she could not as they don't learn that.

I said, ok, tell me who Napolean was and as i thought, she had never heard of him.

I then asked what her major was and she said accounting. So, I said: "Oh, then what is 13 times 3. She said: "I wouldn't know that without a calculator"

Then I asked her where the Beatles come from and sure enough ( I had been warned about this one) she said Bangkok.

I didn't need to ask anything else. Then and there I decided that my kid was never going to go to Thai school.

He is now in (expensive) Montessori school and I am teaching him the computer at home.

[midas]

Reading through most of the posts on this thread, i find many very interesting thoughts.

I agree that most of us learned a different system than is taught today.

However, Google is going to certainly change the way today's kids learn.

So, schools should be teaching logic, creative thinking, and problem solving among things to give the students a desire to learn.

As to the bad grammar, spelling, bad abbreviations, I'm afraid to say, i think it's going to get worse before it gets better because of the internet.

Now, a little story: A friend of my Thai wife's was visiting and told me I was lucky to be a farang as i could easily make more money.

I said, but I have my own business (I sell clothes online) and she could do the same. (I've made my mistakes and learned through Google and trial and error and some friends who have helped me along the way)

After some discussion, she mentioned that she even had a degree from a Thai university. I said, "oh, well then, draw me a map of Asia and show me where China is in relation to Thailand". She said she could not as they don't learn that.

I said, ok, tell me who Napolean was and as i thought, she had never heard of him.

I then asked what her major was and she said accounting. So, I said: "Oh, then what is 13 times 3. She said: "I wouldn't know that without a calculator"

Then I asked her where the Beatles come from and sure enough ( I had been warned about this one) she said Bangkok.

I didn't need to ask anything else. Then and there I decided that my kid was never going to go to Thai school.

He is now in (expensive) Montessori school and I am teaching him the computer at home.

What I'm reading here is shocking! This is incredibly sad and worrying

for what was a tiger Asian economy. I've never had much enthusiasm for the Philippines

but I believe even their poor would be more aware of the answer to these questions than your

Thai lady with a degree

[josuede]

i agree, thais really suck in english. probably one reason why more filipinos can get jobs outside of their country because they got the upperhand languagewise? i see many working filipinos in europe in comparison with thais

[mahtin]

If more were spent on a country's budget for education than defence then the right people would be attracted to the teaching jobs, and the country's future prosperity and international standing would be assured.

Peanuts and monkeys, and the status quo.

edit defense to BE

Edited April 18, 2009 by mahtin

[scorecard]

My comment is about school administration staff.

My 17 year son wanted to improve his already quite good English.

I went with him to a famous US based English language school. The students have to stand outside in the heat and the admin. staff open a small sliding window to talk.

It became very plain very quickly that the Thai admin. lady:

- Was annoyed because she had been disturbed from talkng with her friends.

- Answered every question from my son with 'read the brochures'. In fact they were good questions in regard to his specific situation and he needed answers to make further decisions.

When I tried to ask the same questions she closed the window and sat down with her back to us.

My son tells me his university is even worse.

[noahvail]

If more were spent on a country's budget for education than defence then the right people would be attracted to the teaching jobs, and the country's future prosperity and international standing would be assured.

Peanuts and monkeys, and the status quo.

edit defense to BE

As the bumper sticker in the US says, wouldn't it be great if schools got all the funding they needed, and the air force had to have bake sales to pay for its bombers. I think every country wrestles with their own budget demons, and far too often it is the education budget that suffers.

As a kid, I used to watch 'The G.E. College Bowl' where bright students from major universities were pitted against one another for some sort of scholarship money, I think, and of course bragging rights. About every three weeks, they'd ask the question, which star is closest to the Earth? And invariably, the team that buzzed in would say something like Sirius, when of course it is the Sun. So, it's everywhere - even in the US.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Reading through most of the posts on this thread, i find many very interesting thoughts. I agree that most of us learned a different system than is taught today. However, Google is going to certainly change the way today's kids learn.

So, schools should be teaching logic, creative thinking, and problem solving among things to give the students a desire to learn. As to the bad grammar, spelling, bad abbreviations, I'm afraid to say, i think it's going to get worse before it gets better because of the internet.

Now, a little story: A friend of my Thai wife's was visiting and told me I was lucky to be a farang as i could easily make more money.

I said, but I have my own business (I sell clothes online) and she could do the same. (I've made my mistakes and learned through Google and trial and error and some friends who have helped me along the way)

After some discussion, she mentioned that she even had a degree from a Thai university. I said, "oh, well then, draw me a map of Asia and show me where China is in relation to Thailand". She said she could not as they don't learn that.

I said, ok, tell me who Napolean was and as i thought, she had never heard of him.

I then asked what her major was and she said accounting. So, I said: "Oh, then what is 13 times 3. She said: "I wouldn't know that without a calculator"

Then I asked her where the Beatles come from and sure enough ( I had been warned about this one) she said Bangkok. I didn't need to ask anything else. Then and there I decided that my kid was never going to go to Thai school. He is now in (expensive) Montessori school and I am teaching him the computer at home.

You make some excellent points fiddlehead. The main flaw in the Thai educational system is that students are not taught critical thinking, problem solving and logic skills. Moreover, there is no way these skills can be taught, because the Thai teachers cannot teach these skills, as the Thai teachers lack the skills themselves.

My school hires foreign teachers to not only be English instructors, but also to teach these skills. I don't see how secondary students can learn these skills, having not been even exposed to them before age 10, and spending two 50-minute periods in a 40 student classroom with a foreign teacher, who must also teach English conversation. I teach in an EP program, and even with teaching two 100-minute periods in a 25 student classroom, student acquisition of these skills is slow and uneven. BTW - all of my 100 M2-M3 students know the Beatles are from Liverpool, because teaching western culture is part of the national curriculum for English, and I use music to teach English grammar and culture.

LOL! CAF, Bad enough you show how badly your own personal education was you then go on to criticise the poster and try to infer that his "american" education was bad..... this should be in the dictionary as an example of the word fool.

I did not take offense, and I am not ashamed of my educational/professional background. I have a B.A. in political science (4 year university degree) and a J.D.(3 year law school degree). I have two published legal journal articles, and just had a M6 reading comprehension/writing skills book published here in Thailand. I am currently working on another reading comprehension/writing skills book which will be published by McGraw-Hill. I worked as a restaurant manager for 5 years, a lawyer (admitted to 3 state bars) for 15 years, and now a teacher for 3 years.

Thank you very much indeed for your comprehensive and informative answers.

My main question (in terms of personal interest) was no. 1 in relation to which I have the impression that there may be an element of linguistic misunderstanding (notwithstanding that your class was held in English). I am not sure (and cannot tell from my dictionaries) whether the Thai daow or duang dow ("star") technically includes pra arthit ("the Sun"). Do you know enough Thai to answer that question? (No criticism implied if your answer is negative). I take my hat off to your Thai student who answered "Alpha Centauri" even though you consider that he was wrong.

So far as question no.2 is concerned, I see two issues. Firstly, what would you say to someone who answered "The Moon, obviously"? Secondly, what would you say to someone who answered "I cannot answer that question unless first you tell me the date"? Again it is impressive that your students were able to name the fifth planet. Your bunch really must have been the cream of the crop. I would be extremely surprised if one were to achieve a 10% success rate in a cohort of average children in the UK in the same age group.

No. 3. I am amused to see that your remark tends to suggest that at least one other contributor to this thread does not know what he is talking about.

No 4. As mentioned above, this may well be a language issue. A few hours ago I attempted to engage in conversation on this particular subject with my 14-year-old (Thai) niece (who definitely does not consider the Sun to be a star in her native language) but was rapidly brought to my knees by the realisation that my Thai vocabulary does not extend sufficiently to translate "gravity constrained hydrogen fusion plasma"

No. 5. But it seems to me that the student who answered "Alpha Centauri" (and who obviously had knowledge more than sufficient to have given your correct answer) probably did regard it as a trick question and my suspicion is that thinking in his own mother tongue he might be right in that perception.

It seems to me that the establishment at which you teach must be pretty high flying. Are you able and willing to give an indication as to the level of fees there for a 14-year-old per annum?

With regard to #1, you need to understand that these students are in an EP program. All of their classes, except for Thai culture/history, are taught in English. The students in this particular class have completed almost 3 years of science and math instruction in an English-only setting at the secondary school level. Moreover, they have been taking English classes for at least 10 years.

As to #2, I am preparing them for a general knowledge quiz. The questions are written by Thai English teachers and the answers are judged by Thai English teachers. There's only one simple answer to any question (Thai teachers don't believe there can be more than one answer to a question). So, the moon is a satellite, and not a star. As for a date, the date is now, present tense. "What is the closest star to the earth?" That's answered in the question itself. As I said, I don;t know about the UK education system, but the solar system (planets, stars and moons) is taught in the primary school system in the U.S. in grades 3-4.

#3: I'm not sure to whom you are referring.

#4: Again, my EP students are bilingual. They are being taught in English, because they are bound for top universities, where all of their work and studies will be conducted in English. A term like "gravity constrained hydrogen fusion plasma" probably has no Thai equivalent. That's one of the reasons science and physics are taught in English at the university level in Thailand. Try looking up computer terms in Thai. The Thais use English. Their language has not developed equivalents for new technological terms.

#5: No, the student reads a lot of sci-fi and was just guessing. All of these students are excellent science students (admission to the EP program is based on 4 criteria: math, science, English testing, and an English interview to test speaking, listening and identification skills). They fully understood their error, and each of them was blushing afterwards. BTW - their M3 science final exam had a section on identifying constellations, something I never learned, although one of my general knowledge questions asked them the name of the "north star", which one student could answer correctly.

As to star and sun in Thai, I am no expert, but this might be helpful:

sun=duang dta'-wan

ดวง

duang * classifier for circular objects

* disk/disc ; sphere ; orb ; circle ; dot ; spot ; speckle

ตะวัน

dtà-wan * sun ; light of day

star=duang daao

ดวง

duang * classifier for circular objects

* disk/disc ; sphere ; orb ; circle ; dot ; spot ; speckle

ดาว

daao * star ;

* five-pointed star ;

"duang" seems to be a common term in the two words, so that leads me to believe the Thais should even have a leg up on us English speakers when it comes to determining if the sun is a star.

Edited April 18, 2009 by zaphodbeeblebrox

[mahtin]

even in the US.

Especially in the US?

How Dumb Are You? pairs its forehead-slapping quiz questions with intriguing bonus trivia and groundbreaking metrics that scientifically measure a reader's exact level of stupidity.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Dumb-Are-You-Stu...y/dp/0980059208

[astral]

Reading skills are great, but there is no comprehension, of even a simple sentence. No understanding of what the words mean, let alone the gist of a whole sentence.

The parents are going to fork out x thousand baht to put her through uni, but I have doubts, if she is going to be a teacher is this the blind leading the blind, she's actually classed 3rd in the whole school for her abilities in english!

All to common, I fear.

My stepson's English teacher preferred to cope with my mediocre Thai, rather than speak English.

Now that was in a state school.

The private school that the younger one attended was better motivated.

[G54]

Have to agree they do not understand the sentences they put together. Anything more complex than, 'Mai Khao Jai' is difficult.

[midas]

If more were spent on a country's budget for education than defence then the right people would be attracted to the teaching jobs, and the country's future prosperity and international standing would be assured.

Peanuts and monkeys, and the status quo.

edit defense to BE

When you understand how difficult it is here for people from

say Isaan to break through the social barrier anyway, the lack of a proper education

just makes it virtually impossible for them to succeed.

[Kitsch22]

Reading through most of the posts on this thread, i find many very interesting thoughts. I agree that most of us learned a different system than is taught today. However, Google is going to certainly change the way today's kids learn.

So, schools should be teaching logic, creative thinking, and problem solving among things to give the students a desire to learn. As to the bad grammar, spelling, bad abbreviations, I'm afraid to say, i think it's going to get worse before it gets better because of the internet.

Now, a little story: A friend of my Thai wife's was visiting and told me I was lucky to be a farang as i could easily make more money.

I said, but I have my own business (I sell clothes online) and she could do the same. (I've made my mistakes and learned through Google and trial and error and some friends who have helped me along the way)

After some discussion, she mentioned that she even had a degree from a Thai university. I said, "oh, well then, draw me a map of Asia and show me where China is in relation to Thailand". She said she could not as they don't learn that.

I said, ok, tell me who Napolean was and as i thought, she had never heard of him.

I then asked what her major was and she said accounting. So, I said: "Oh, then what is 13 times 3. She said: "I wouldn't know that without a calculator"

Then I asked her where the Beatles come from and sure enough ( I had been warned about this one) she said Bangkok. I didn't need to ask anything else. Then and there I decided that my kid was never going to go to Thai school. He is now in (expensive) Montessori school and I am teaching him the computer at home.

You make some excellent points fiddlehead. The main flaw in the Thai educational system is that students are not taught critical thinking, problem solving and logic skills. Moreover, there is no way these skills can be taught, because the Thai teachers cannot teach these skills, as the Thai teachers lack the skills themselves.

My school hires foreign teachers to not only be English instructors, but also to teach these skills. I don't see how secondary students can learn these skills, having not been even exposed to them before age 10, and spending two 50-minute periods in a 40 student classroom with a foreign teacher, who must also teach English conversation. I teach in an EP program, and even with teaching two 100-minute periods in a 25 student classroom, student acquisition of these skills is slow and uneven. BTW - all of my 100 M2-M3 students know the Beatles are from Liverpool, because teaching western culture is part of the national curriculum for English, and I use music to teach English grammar and culture.

LOL! CAF, Bad enough you show how badly your own personal education was you then go on to criticise the poster and try to infer that his "american" education was bad..... this should be in the dictionary as an example of the word fool.

I did not take offense, and I am not ashamed of my educational/professional background. I have a B.A. in political science (4 year university degree) and a J.D.(3 year law school degree). I have two published legal journal articles, and just had a M6 reading comprehension/writing skills book published here in Thailand. I am currently working on another reading comprehension/writing skills book which will be published by McGraw-Hill. I worked as a restaurant manager for 5 years, a lawyer (admitted to 3 state bars) for 15 years, and now a teacher for 3 years.

Thank you very much indeed for your comprehensive and informative answers.

My main question (in terms of personal interest) was no. 1 in relation to which I have the impression that there may be an element of linguistic misunderstanding (notwithstanding that your class was held in English). I am not sure (and cannot tell from my dictionaries) whether the Thai daow or duang dow ("star") technically includes pra arthit ("the Sun"). Do you know enough Thai to answer that question? (No criticism implied if your answer is negative). I take my hat off to your Thai student who answered "Alpha Centauri" even though you consider that he was wrong.

So far as question no.2 is concerned, I see two issues. Firstly, what would you say to someone who answered "The Moon, obviously"? Secondly, what would you say to someone who answered "I cannot answer that question unless first you tell me the date"? Again it is impressive that your students were able to name the fifth planet. Your bunch really must have been the cream of the crop. I would be extremely surprised if one were to achieve a 10% success rate in a cohort of average children in the UK in the same age group.

No. 3. I am amused to see that your remark tends to suggest that at least one other contributor to this thread does not know what he is talking about.

No 4. As mentioned above, this may well be a language issue. A few hours ago I attempted to engage in conversation on this particular subject with my 14-year-old (Thai) niece (who definitely does not consider the Sun to be a star in her native language) but was rapidly brought to my knees by the realisation that my Thai vocabulary does not extend sufficiently to translate "gravity constrained hydrogen fusion plasma"

No. 5. But it seems to me that the student who answered "Alpha Centauri" (and who obviously had knowledge more than sufficient to have given your correct answer) probably did regard it as a trick question and my suspicion is that thinking in his own mother tongue he might be right in that perception.

It seems to me that the establishment at which you teach must be pretty high flying. Are you able and willing to give an indication as to the level of fees there for a 14-year-old per annum?

With regard to #1, you need to understand that these students are in an EP program. All of their classes, except for Thai culture/history, are taught in English. The students in this particular class have completed almost 3 years of science and math instruction in an English-only setting at the secondary school level. Moreover, they have been taking English classes for at least 10 years.

As to #2, I am preparing them for a general knowledge quiz. The questions are written by Thai English teachers and the answers are judged by Thai English teachers. There's only one simple answer to any question (Thai teachers don't believe there can be more than one answer to a question). So, the moon is a satellite, and not a star. As for a date, the date is now, present tense. "What is the closest star to the earth?" That's answered in the question itself. As I said, I don;t know about the UK education system, but the solar system (planets, stars and moons) is taught in the primary school system in the U.S. in grades 3-4.

#3: I'm not sure to whom you are referring.

#4: Again, my EP students are bilingual. They are being taught in English, because they are bound for top universities, where all of their work and studies will be conducted in English. A term like "gravity constrained hydrogen fusion plasma" probably has no Thai equivalent. That's one of the reasons science and physics are taught in English at the university level in Thailand. Try looking up computer terms in Thai. The Thais use English. Their language has not developed equivalents for new technological terms.

#5: No, the student reads a lot of sci-fi and was just guessing. All of these students are excellent science students (admission to the EP program is based on 4 criteria: math, science, English testing, and an English interview to test speaking, listening and identification skills). They fully understood their error, and each of them was blushing afterwards. BTW - their M3 science final exam had a section on identifying constellations, something I never learned, although one of my general knowledge questions asked them the name of the "north star", which one student could answer correctly.

As to star and sun in Thai, I am no expert, but this might be helpful:

sun=duang dta'-wan

ดวง

duang * classifier for circular objects

* disk/disc ; sphere ; orb ; circle ; dot ; spot ; speckle

ตะวัน

dtà-wan * sun ; light of day

star=duang daao

ดวง

duang * classifier for circular objects

* disk/disc ; sphere ; orb ; circle ; dot ; spot ; speckle

ดาว

daao * star ;

* five-pointed star ;

"duang" seems to be a common term in the two words, so that leads me to believe the Thais should even have a leg up on us English speakers when it comes to determining if the sun is a star.

Thank you again for your time and trouble in responding.

If your observations are correct (and I am confident that they are, for you plainly speak on the basis of extensive teaching experience) it means that no Thai student can gain an education in any of the sciences (and perhaps mathematics) even to a standard that would be regarded as basic in the West unless they first have a strong command of the English language. So 90+% of Thai kids are stuffed before they start.

I think that your other responses also indicate (albeit in a different and less obvious way) the fundamental importance of language in all of this discussion of education.

For example, my question (#2) was about planets, not stars. I think that you have perhaps missed the point that I was trying to make in that it was a trick question. Your own (planet) answer is only correct on certain dates and if you resolve the ambiguity in the meaning of the word "planet" so that the Moon is included (option 3 in the Compact OED) then your answer is never correct.

To my shame I have to say that you probably know more about the modern system of education in UK than I do. I do not know if any astronomy whatsoever is in the current national curriculum, let alone what material at what stages. I am sufficiently old that it was necessary for me to pass an examination in Latin in order to gain entrance to my university, even though my subject was mathematics. I have not set foot in an English schoolroom for 40 years or more. I do, however, have direct experience of the emerging products of the modern system and (allowing for some very creditable and pleasing exceptions) on balance I am deeply unimpressed.

So much of education is dependent upon the language. This discussion puts me in mind of a line from the Pensioner's Love Ballad: "Your teeth are like stars - they come out at night"

[PeaceBlondie]

bear with me - recovering from stroke -

The education systems here are terribly flawed in almost every way - fact

[Tango7]

I once taught at a famous English speaking university here in Bangkok and I can tell you that their standards were (are?) terrible.

They do not care what the students know as long as they pay the fees.

Each English lesson started with a dictation. This meant the students listened to a brief paragraph and then on repeating it slowly, they'd write it down as a comprehension exercise. I collected their work immediately afterwards.

On one occasion, I was handed a dictation for s tudent who wasn't even there and when I reported this blatant attempt to cheat, I was told by the head of faculty to ïgnore it.

There were no real standards to talk of, many students bought their way into and out of the university, and considering the students spent 4 years learning 90% of their subjects in English, many left with no real ability to speak it.

What amazes me is that thousands of these students end up with Master's degrees when they really shouldn't have got into university.

[fanta rood]

Wich university are you talking about?

[fanta rood]

Tango7, what is the name of the university that you are talking about?

Look I know you've been online. I can check your profile

[fj709]

Dear All,

I think there is a consensus that there is something fundamentally wrong with the education system in this country. We are specifically discussing the English language teaching among the Thai "lower classes".

Having identified the problem and without being overtly idealistic what can we, and by we I mean those of us who wish to see the youth of this country being given the opportunities they deserve, do to improve the situation in some small but significant way?

Is it too idealistic to believe that the 40,000 UK and other English speaking expats can have some influence by lobbying within and outside of Thailand about this matter?

Is it even more idealistic too consider developing some some small centre of excellence for teaching these unfortunate kids.

I teach a small number of children in my wifes village, free of charge, during our winter sojourn to Thailand and I think they benefit from it.

I know there are people out there with much greater expertise and abilities than I who could be organised to promote the proper teaching of the English language among the "deserving poor" of this country.

As a corollary it could also be of positiveI benefit to the standing of expats living in Thailand in the long term.

I await with trepidation the snorts of derision to the above comments!!!

Regards

Edited April 21, 2009 by fj709

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Having identified the problem and without being overtly idealistic what can we, and by we I mean those of us who wish to see the youth of this country being given the opportunities they deserve, do to improve the situation in some small but significant way?

Is it too idealistic to believe that the 40,000 UK and other English speaking expats can have some influence by lobbying within and outside of Thailand about this matter?

Unfortunately, they have absolutely no interest in our input.

[gk10002000]

Donkey's years ago, I taught a group of Thai teachers of English at an MoE seminar over the course of a week. Atrocious, pathetic, terrible, appalling, sub-standard, laughable and depressing are the immediate words that spring to mind of their ability to even utter a choerent, simple sentence.

Lovely people, but totally uneducated in English teaching. Thailand will always be a sub-standard backwater in terms of language proficiency.

The problem with Thai education is it is taught from a very narrow perspective. When you have such a strong state oriented religion, they are not given the framework to understand what they see or read. Things we take for granted are not present there.

One example is a chinese girlfriend I had for a while. I took her to Newport RI to see the mansions there. She really didn't understand the carneige's or JP morgans or how it inflenced the USA. She was supposedly a fine arts graduate. She had no idea what the Roman Numerals were on one of the door ways. She said she saw them before but never knew what they were or what they meant. They are not educated in Western civiliation or civics. Thoughts and ideas can be radically different.

I will say that at least most Thais speak and write and do math in their own language better than most USA high school graduates do. The stuff coming out of our schools today is atrocious.

[ernest1966]

fanta rood, the word "stalker" springs to mind

fj709, no snorts of derision. But what can we do ? The thai goverment would just laugh in our faces. Even if every single foreigner left in protest the thais would say "so what, we don't need you"

zaphodbeeblebrox, dead right

don't get me started on the religion, lol.

[Kitsch22]

I recently bought a Thai/English Picture Dictionary for my Daughter..

It scared the sh*t out of me as it told us that a Bat is a Bird & a Whale is a Fish !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I threw the Book away but i dread to think what they are taught to be honest, if this kind of thing is allowed to be in Books, especially one's that I understand..

Was the subject of your disgust the book or the Thai language?

If you bought an English/Thai picture dictionary, would you throw it away if it showed a picture of a sealion that did not look like a lion?

How sure are you that you really did understand the book before you tossed it?

[Supernova]

bear with me - recovering from stroke -

The education systems here are terribly flawed in almost every way - fact

It is indeed...

The rote learning technique used in schools is to blame here. Thais are not taught to speak and think for themselves. Actually, one could say it's almost a 'forbidden' thing to do, especially at the elementary level. I feel sorry for these kids, they're like little 'robots'. Maybe this trend has changed recently? I don't know. Like someone else has already pointed out, the Thai appetite for learning and acquiring (new) knowledge is very low compared to other countries. << This has been my observation as well.

[Colonel_Mustard]

I know plenty of brilliant Thai's from outside of Thailand.

Well I can assure you I know plenty of brilliant Thais from inside Thailand.

It's my guess that 9 tenths of the foreigners living in Thailand can't string a coherent sentence together in the Thai language - beyond ordering another beer or some food.

Immersed in the language and unable, or unwilling to learn it and yet critical of Thai English language skills.

This thread is about the Thai education system, so I'm not sure how or why the inability of foreigners to speak Thai is at all relevant.

I don't think the criticism was of the language learning ability of Thais in general but of the lack of English language skills of many Thai teachers of English and how this has a negative impact on the level of English that their students are able to attain. That criticism is both justified and relevant.

Is it too much to expect a language teacher to at least be reasonably fluent in the language?

[JR Texas]

bear with me - recovering from stroke -

The education systems here are terribly flawed in almost every way - fact

It is indeed...

The rote learning technique used in schools is to blame here. Thais are not taught to speak and think for themselves. Actually, one could say it's almost a 'forbidden' thing to do, especially at the elementary level. I feel sorry for these kids, they're like little 'robots'. Maybe this trend has changed recently? I don't know. Like someone else has already pointed out, the Thai appetite for learning and acquiring (new) knowledge is very low compared to other countries. << This has been my observation as well.

The late C. Wright Mills used to talk about "grinning robots." How appropriate for Thailand. Unfortunately, producing grinning robots that can't think their way out of a box is not unique to Thailand.

There are a lot of threads here about language learning. I think, to compete in the 21st century marketplace, we need graduates who can do more than learn a language and memorize trivia. But that is not controversial.

The real question is what to do about the sorry state of the eduction system in Thailand. I have no solution. Thais seem extremely resistant to change. And they do not like taking well-meaning advice from foreigners.

Maybe it is simply an evolutionary process that will take place even if we do nothing.

[teacup]

The real question is what to do about the sorry state of the eduction system in Thailand. I have no solution. Thais seem extremely resistant to change. And they do not like taking well-meaning advice from foreigners.

Maybe it is simply an evolutionary process that will take place even if we do nothing.

Just the thought

Before we can improve our thai education,…..we need to improve the mindset of “the parents and society as a whole” toward ….how they are viewing/valuing many issues related to …..Class, gender, equality, and esp the deep root of the thai cultures and traditions, for example

Most kids here are taught/ have been raised to have “ears”,.....but not “mouth”

In most cases, they, the parents, owned us since the day we were born!!!.

And often times they will dictate …the way we should…..dress, act, our future profession, and many times …who we should marry also, etcs.

So most of us have never been raised to speak up or think outside the box, or critical/questionable thinking of something that is not “already the pre-set norms under the glass lid name of “culture/traditions”

Just me here

Edited April 22, 2009 by teacup

[fanta rood]

So exactly how much out-of-the-box thinking do you really need when learning a language like English?

And why is it a fact that they are are not taught to speak and think for themselves? Are there some concrete examples of this?

[teacup]

So exactly how much out-of-the-box thinking do you really need when learning a language like English?

I was referring to the thai education as a whole, not specifically on the language learning.

And why is it a fact that they are are not taught to speak and think for themselves? Are there some concrete examples of this?

Just look around you, whenever you are in thailand.....