Ferguson's Contemptuous Gesture....

[Penkoprod]

Ok, maybe second string was the wrong phrase. What about "squad players"? Those JUST good enough to beat a team of Evertons percieved stature (in Fergusons eyes, that is)?

And what had it have been Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool that he was in the Semi Final against?

Can you REALLY say, hand on heart that would have been the side he put out?

NO Ronaldo, NO Van Der Sar blah blah blah etc, etc etc?

Penkoprod

[bkkjames]

Ok, maybe second string was the wrong phrase. What about "squad players"? Those JUST good enough to beat a team of Evertons percieved stature (in Fergusons eyes, that is)?

And what had it have been Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool that he was in the Semi Final against?

Can you REALLY say, hand on heart that would have been the side he put out?

NO Ronaldo, NO Van Der Sar blah blah blah etc, etc etc?

Penkoprod

Van Der Sar wasn't needed unless you think he would have saved the penalties.

Ronaldo may have been useful for sure but giving him a rest may be prudent.

Rooney was / is injured.

Ferdinand could have used the day off with all his back problems. Do you honestly believe SAF and UTD could care less if they won the game?

as for your Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool suggestion, rediculous. We played several of the kids in the games running up to the semi-final and like the Carling Cup, SAF said that he would continue to go with those that got them there.

just because you think it was a slight at Everton that we fielded them again, that's your issue. Needless to say, I think they did pretty well against your first team.

[Penkoprod]

Well its not like we will ever agree on this, but to not even have Ronaldo, Rooney, van der Sar or Michael Carrick on the bus down there shows both contempt and hypocracy, to say they (Everton) are a big club, and then field EIGHT changes.

He even said so himself that he sent the kids out (blaming the pitch if you will !!!!!!)

How did he know about the pitch when he made the decision to rest those above?

Penkoprod

[StevieH]

thought his blaming the pitch for not picking his senior players was right up there among the funniest things he's ever come out with.

[mrbojangles]

I see the ABU,s are out in force again

[bkkjames]

thought his blaming the pitch for not picking his senior players was right up there among the funniest things he's ever come out with.

if you watched the carling cup final, you might understand his reasoning - albeit a bit funny.

[farangconnection]

Ok, maybe second string was the wrong phrase. What about "squad players"? Those JUST good enough to beat a team of Evertons percieved stature (in Fergusons eyes, that is)?

And what had it have been Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool that he was in the Semi Final against?

Can you REALLY say, hand on heart that would have been the side he put out?

NO Ronaldo, NO Van Der Sar blah blah blah etc, etc etc?

Penkoprod

Don't forget the great Fergie tried the old finger on the nose trick when Liverpool went to Old Trafford. He really took the piss there. 1-4's worth of piss :D

[bkkjames]

Ok, maybe second string was the wrong phrase. What about "squad players"? Those JUST good enough to beat a team of Evertons percieved stature (in Fergusons eyes, that is)?

And what had it have been Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool that he was in the Semi Final against?

Can you REALLY say, hand on heart that would have been the side he put out?

NO Ronaldo, NO Van Der Sar blah blah blah etc, etc etc?

Penkoprod

Don't forget the great Fergie tried the old finger on the nose trick when Liverpool went to Old Trafford. He really took the piss there. 1-4's worth of piss :D

sorry, did you mention something about trophies? no I didn't think so.

[StevieH]

thought his blaming the pitch for not picking his senior players was right up there among the funniest things he's ever come out with.

if you watched the carling cup final, you might understand his reasoning - albeit a bit funny.

oh the pitch is rubbish, i have no argument with that. it's made of rye grass which is easier to roll up and remove for all those money-spinning concerts wembley needs to stage to pay for itself. but using that as an excuse for not picking your senior players in a showpiece match is just absolutely comical.

[bkkjames]

thought his blaming the pitch for not picking his senior players was right up there among the funniest things he's ever come out with.

if you watched the carling cup final, you might understand his reasoning - albeit a bit funny.

oh the pitch is rubbish, i have no argument with that. it's made of rye grass which is easier to roll up and remove for all those money-spinning concerts wembley needs to stage to pay for itself. but using that as an excuse for not picking your senior players in a showpiece match is just absolutely comical.

well, Rafa used up the line "our players are tired" so he had to come up with something original

[StevieH]

well, Rafa used up the line "our players are tired" so he had to come up with something original

'our players were tired' is honest and factual. no problem there. ferguson could have said the same instead of sounding silly again.

[bkkjames]

well, Rafa used up the line "our players are tired" so he had to come up with something original

'our players were tired' is honest and factual. no problem there. ferguson could have said the same instead of sounding silly again.

this was just put up on the bbc site.

Sir Alex Ferguson joined the chorus of disapproval over the state of Wembley's pitch after Manchester United lost to Everton in their FA Cup semi-final.

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger called the surface "a disaster" and "laughable" after Saturday's defeat by Chelsea.

And worries over the pitch prompted Ferguson to field a youthful team.

"They've got all these lights around the perimeter to help the growth and the standard of the soil but it looks dead to me," said the United manager.

Wembley took seven years to build and cost £750m but the surface appeared to cut up severely throughout both matches at the weekend, which were played in dry conditions.

If you go to a lot of places in Europe and Africa you get pitches that are a lot worse than that

Chelsea manager Guus Hiddink

"It is not a pitch for a stadium like that," stated Wenger. "You spend all that money and still have no pitch."

After watching Saturday's match, Ferguson took the decision to pull Paul Scholes, Berbatov and Patrice Evra from his starting line-up, although all three came on as substitutes.

"When I saw the pitch what I didn't want was to go into extra time with my strongest squad," added Ferguson after his side were beaten 4-2 in a penalty shoot-out following a 0-0 draw.

"Yesterday it looked spongy and dead and difficult to move the ball quickly around it. So we had to go with the bold decision of playing the younger ones.

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger was unhappy with the Wembley pitch on Saturday

"After all, our club is built on giving young players opportunities and they didn't disappoint."

Since reopening its doors two years ago, the Wembley pitch has often come in for criticism. The current one is the fifth to have been laid in that brief timeframe.

Australia's rugby union authorities launched an investigation into whether it contributed to two Wallaby players being injured in an international against the Barbarians in December 2008.

England's 3-2 defeat at home to Croatia in November 2007 - a result that cost them a place at Euro 2008 - was played out in treacherous conditions as heavy rain failed to drain away from the field of play.

Croatia manager Slaven Bilic criticised the state of the pitch, which only weeks earlier had hosted an American football game.

The stadium has also hosted the Race of Champions rally event, where it was covered in tarmac, as well as a number of music concerts and rugby league's Challenge Cup final.

The turf is not scheduled to be relaid again until after the summer, by which time the three Football League play-offs, the FA Cup final and England's World Cup qualifier with Andorra will have all been played at the stadium.

Wembley is also set to host the 2011 Champions League final.

However, Chelsea manager Guus Hiddink was not critical of the playing conditions at Britain's premier sporting arena.

"If you go to a lot of places in Europe and Africa you get pitches that are a lot worse than that," he insisted.

"I don't think you should start talking about the pitch, whether you win or lose. It was fine to play on."

The Football Association has yet to comment on the state of the Wembley pitch.

[sanmiguel]

I watched the last 20 mins of extra time and thought it was a fcuken great game.

As for the pitch well Fergie isnt the first to critisise it, but with 750 million quid to spread out between the corrupt FA officials and Commie Kens group of thieves there was never going to be too much left over for a few packets of decent grass seed.

Hoping for an Everton win in the final.

[farangconnection]

Ok, maybe second string was the wrong phrase. What about "squad players"? Those JUST good enough to beat a team of Evertons percieved stature (in Fergusons eyes, that is)?

And what had it have been Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool that he was in the Semi Final against?

Can you REALLY say, hand on heart that would have been the side he put out?

NO Ronaldo, NO Van Der Sar blah blah blah etc, etc etc?

Penkoprod

Don't forget the great Fergie tried the old finger on the nose trick when Liverpool went to Old Trafford. He really took the piss there. 1-4's worth of piss :D

sorry, did you mention something about trophies? no I didn't think so.

I have been a Chelsea supporter for longer than even I can remember and the thought of winning trophies never really bothered me in the latter days of obscurity. Then along came Ruud Gullit and the whole scenario changed. People suddenly started to take an interest in Chelsea once more. Then came the bottomless coffer.Teams that had been hogging the top for ages, now had a little bit of competition. Jeez, they didn't like that. Suddenly the whole outlook changed. Things that Man U & Arsenal had been doing for a decade were suddenly out of bounds to Chelsea. The fact that they had also spent 200,000,000 was suddenly and conveniently forgotton.We could now buy players, the difference was we bought from overseas, we didn't buy anyone that was a threat to us in the Premiership like Fergie. And the insults started flying in. One moment we were a team of Italians, then they were calling us Chelski. Even today someone ,who, like a lot of writers here, proved he didn't know a thing about football by saying " Come on. Name me an English Chelsea player. You haven't got any. Just count how many England players we've had over the last six years. More than anyone else.Yes, you are right, we don't have many cups, but then again nor do Gillingham, Brentford, Hartlepool, Luton,Watford we could go on all night. But what I do have is the memory of one of the greatest cup finals ever played. 1970 Chelsea v Leeds United. Todays footballers would have been scared to come out at half time. As one modern ref said recently " If I had that match, I would have sent off seven players and booked the rest. That was football.

Edited April 20, 2009 by farangconnection

[oldgit]

thought his blaming the pitch for not picking his senior players was right up there among the funniest things he's ever come out with.

if you watched the carling cup final, you might understand his reasoning - albeit a bit funny.

oh the pitch is rubbish, i have no argument with that. it's made of rye grass which is easier to roll up and remove for all those money-spinning concerts wembley needs to stage to pay for itself. but using that as an excuse for not picking your senior players in a showpiece match is just absolutely comical.

Didn't Everton play on it as well?

[farangconnection]

thought his blaming the pitch for not picking his senior players was right up there among the funniest things he's ever come out with.

if you watched the carling cup final, you might understand his reasoning - albeit a bit funny.

oh the pitch is rubbish, i have no argument with that. it's made of rye grass which is easier to roll up and remove for all those money-spinning concerts wembley needs to stage to pay for itself. but using that as an excuse for not picking your senior players in a showpiece match is just absolutely comical.

Didn't Everton play on it as well?

At long last Fergie and Wenger are in agreement. The pitch cost them both the match.

[oldgit]

I hate Man Poo but Fergie picked a team to win the game not lose.Not a great game to watch but United did enough to win and it WAS a penalty too.

However they have missed a great opportunity to play Chelsea in the finals,so Fergie has made the wrong decision to play a weakened side,and should be critisised for it.

I don't disagree about giving him some stick for the team selection. However had the ref did his job, today we would be on here saying what a brave move to play the kids.

Anyways, in a sick sort of way, I am actually a little happy for David Moyes.

So referees are not allowed to make mistakes but managers and players can make them with impunity?

hmm ok oldgit, next time your chelsea is on the short end of something so obvious we won't expect your two cents on it then mate

Definitely not.Referees get enough stick for trying to do their job without me wading in.Anyway,some mistakes they do make are to our advantage.They are human,you know!

[StevieH]

thought his blaming the pitch for not picking his senior players was right up there among the funniest things he's ever come out with.

if you watched the carling cup final, you might understand his reasoning - albeit a bit funny.

oh the pitch is rubbish, i have no argument with that. it's made of rye grass which is easier to roll up and remove for all those money-spinning concerts wembley needs to stage to pay for itself. but using that as an excuse for not picking your senior players in a showpiece match is just absolutely comical.

Didn't Everton play on it as well?

it's clearly coincidence that both ferguson and wenger are complaining about the pitch while hiddink and moyes have made no reference to it.

[bkkjames]

Yes everton played on the same pitch but I hope you will agree hitting long balls all day to felini is different than playing football like we like to. Not evertons problem for sure, but ask anyone who ever set foot on that turf, and they will tell you that its 10x worse than that frozen garden we played on in last years cl final.

Anyways, my blame lays with riley, not the pitch.

[rixalex]

My thinking on the business of the players that a manager picks for a game is that it is entirely his perogative, and i find it strange when people "outside" of the club start chirping up and complaining. The only people who have any sort of right to complain about squad selection in my opinion are the fans of that club. And as i see it, there aren't too many ManU fans who are complaining. I'm certainly not. Despite the result, i think it was still the right decision.

For one thing, i'm not entirely convinced that even had we played a full-strength squad we would have been guaranteed a win. If you've seen the way that ManU have been playing over the last three weeks you'd understand why. It's only been thanks to a young teenager coming on as a sub that we've been winning.

And for another thing, had we played the full strength squad and got a win, but then due to injuries and fatigue suffered a bad result in either Premiership or Champions League, i don't think with all due respect to the FA Cup that it would have been worth it. Besides, a semi-final win means nothing if you then go and lose in the final. Had it been the final i think that would have been a completely different matter.

So, absolutely nothing to stop people "outside" of the club commenting on squad selection and ridiculing it or whatever they want to say, but as for either complaining or making demands about who should play and who shouldn't on the basis of respecting a Cup or whatever grounds they think up, i think they have absolutely no say and should instead concentrate their thoughts on the team selection of their own team.

[rott]

But are we all in agreement that this " Reserve side " were actually for the 120 mins, the better Team ??

No we <deleted> well are not. is that clear enough? And look here Mr. <deleted> Contraption or whatever your name is, less of this "sub-standard Everton" <deleted> and get back to being your own best customer. What is wrong with you people, you make sghjames look like a rational thinker.

Erm, hello chaps hope you are all well and enjoying the day.

We're off to Wembley,dee dum, dee dum, dee dee.

[Jimjim]

I can't find any video online of the penalty shout Man U had in the second half. Anyone? I certainly saw the shout Everton had. Looks like it all evened out.

[farangconnection]

I can't find any video online of the penalty shout Man U had in the second half. Anyone? I certainly saw the shout Everton had. Looks like it all evened out.

Uniteds was a 100% penalty...........Evertons was a 70/75% penalty.

Edited April 21, 2009 by farangconnection

[bkkjames]

But are we all in agreement that this " Reserve side " were actually for the 120 mins, the better Team ??

No we <deleted> well are not. is that clear enough? And look here Mr. <deleted> Contraption or whatever your name is, less of this "sub-standard Everton" <deleted> and get back to being your own best customer. What is wrong with you people, you make sghjames look like a rational thinker.

Erm, hello chaps hope you are all well and enjoying the day.

We're off to Wembley,dee dum, dee dum, dee dee.

who is this sghjames you are referring to? me? if that's the case, at least get my name right if you want to slag me.

[farangconnection]

But are we all in agreement that this " Reserve side " were actually for the 120 mins, the better Team ??

No we <deleted> well are not. is that clear enough? And look here Mr. <deleted> Contraption or whatever your name is, less of this "sub-standard Everton" <deleted> and get back to being your own best customer. What is wrong with you people, you make sghjames look like a rational thinker.

Erm, hello chaps hope you are all well and enjoying the day.

We're off to Wembley,dee dum, dee dum, dee dee.

who is this sghjames you are referring to? me? if that's the case, at least get my name right if you want to slag me.

So you don't like being called a rational thinker.

And what about me then. Now all I am is fcking contraption

[bkkjames]

I am still trying to get my head around the topic of this thread.

Man Utd disrespectful, hands FA Cup to Chelsea.

Even if this turns out to be true, surely it's not an Everton Fan complaining to be in the final is it? Don't think it would be a Chelsea fan either?

Therefore, if people want to biatch about something, why not take issue of the disrespectful nature of this topic.

If I were a Toffee supporter, I would be more f-offed about the OP's assertion that because Everton is in the final, Chelsea will win automatically. Talk about disrepectful.

[Zodiac]

I am still trying to get my head around the topic of this thread.

Man Utd disrespectful, hands FA Cup to Chelsea.

Even if this turns out to be true, surely it's not an Everton Fan complaining to be in the final is it? Don't think it would be a Chelsea fan either?

Therefore, if people want to biatch about something, why not take issue of the disrespectful nature of this topic.

If I were a Toffee supporter, I would be more f-offed about the OP's assertion that because Everton is in the final, Chelsea will win automatically. Talk about disrepectful.

Fair point bkkjames, except look at the odds-on from Sky bet for Chelsea to win in the final:

Chelsea 10/11 2/1(draw) Everton 4/1

Would not be so if they met Man U in the final, right?!

Say no more.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Zodiac

[rott]

Hi Diddlee Dee

We're off to Wemberlee

We're off to ream those rent-boys bums

With hand grenades and tommy guns

Hi Diddlee Dee

We're off to Wemberlee

Ignore me troops, it's just cup fever

[bkkjames]

Hi Diddlee Dee

We're off to Wemberlee

We're off to ream those rent-boys bums

With hand grenades and tommy guns

Hi Diddlee Dee

We're off to Wemberlee

Ignore me troops, it's just cup fever

another month of this and i will have a fever as well - from a migraine

[jjp]

My thinking on the business of the players that a manager picks for a game is that it is entirely his perogative, and i find it strange when people "outside" of the club start chirping up and complaining. The only people who have any sort of right to complain about squad selection in my opinion are the fans of that club. And as i see it, there aren't too many ManU fans who are complaining. I'm certainly not. Despite the result, i think it was still the right decision.

For one thing, i'm not entirely convinced that even had we played a full-strength squad we would have been guaranteed a win. If you've seen the way that ManU have been playing over the last three weeks you'd understand why. It's only been thanks to a young teenager coming on as a sub that we've been winning.

And for another thing, had we played the full strength squad and got a win, but then due to injuries and fatigue suffered a bad result in either Premiership or Champions League, i don't think with all due respect to the FA Cup that it would have been worth it. Besides, a semi-final win means nothing if you then go and lose in the final. Had it been the final i think that would have been a completely different matter.

So, absolutely nothing to stop people "outside" of the club commenting on squad selection and ridiculing it or whatever they want to say, but as for either complaining or making demands about who should play and who shouldn't on the basis of respecting a Cup or whatever grounds they think up, i think they have absolutely no say and should instead concentrate their thoughts on the team selection of their own team.

i agree Rix,

The FA,premier league, uefa ask for a squad list each season. Do the rules state that you can only play your best players in every game,no, so it's up to each manager to choose which ever team he deems fit for each game. We reached the semi final using the squad players and nothing was said earlier but now cos we were beaten and its a semi final, we are desrepectful, come on?????

So, what about some other premier teams who put weakened teams out this season? It's because the mangers of these clubs thought that staying in the prem league was way more important than staying in the cup. I also seem to recall that most of the bigger teams have put weaker teams out over the last few years. I suppose all these teams did it cos it was in their best interests, but Utd did it to desrespect the cup.