Kawa 250 Vs Cbr 150

[sinewave]

Top speed of the Kawa 250 is supposedly 150kph, same as the CBR 150.

But getting there, is the acceleration of the 250 much faster or only marginal?...Ride ad handling wise is it a major step up from the CBR? eg; ...long trips on the CBR punishes your nutsack, is the 250 more comfortable and quicker?

If the differences is only 25% i'll stick with the CBR

no, i dont want a tiger.

thanx!

[JonnyF]

There was a thread on this a while ago, called the "Value for Money" thread or something like that. Have a read through that.

I've ridden both and own the Ninja 250R. The gist of the previous thread is that there is quite a performance difference between the two but for people who think that because they are spending twice the money that they will get twice the performance, they will be disappointed and would be better off with a CBR150. I really like the 250R and think the extra money was well worth it.

The top speed of the stock Ninja is closer to 165-170, not 150. I think one forum member did a few cheap (ish) mods and got a verified speed (GPS) of over 180.

[dave_boo]

I own both.

Been back and forth discussing both points, and for a in the city bike the CBR is the winnah hands down. Crusing is more comfortable on the Ninja due to the greater power on top. However (!), for whatever reason I have bottomed out the Ninja's forks several times and never came close to doing that on the CBR. I'm a bit (actually that's a lie--a lot) heavier than the target rider so perhaps that has something to do with it.

The acceleration in town will have the CBR ahead for a little bit, probably the lenght of a short set of stoplights, but for anything more than that you'll want to be threading your way through cars to be able to stay away from a Ninja.

The added fairing on the Ninja is great for touring, it sure does calm down the cockpit enough to actually hold a lit cigarette inside without a trail of sparks following the bike. I can't think of any other example than that to describe the wind protection.

The CBR IS a major ball buster, the Ninja actually sits me closer to the tank but the design doesn't bother my 'nads as much. The seats are up for interpetation, I rather like the almost motorcross CBR seat and the Ninja seat doesn't really encourage much shifting around in it.

Another thing to consider; I'm 5' 9" and I noticed that the slightly taller windscreen on the Ninja pushes air directly into my visor area when riding normally. I am able to leave the visor up and get fresh air a good 15-20 km/h later on the CBR than the Ninja due to only having to contend with direct air rather than also that washing up the front of the bike.

I haven't actually did a GPS verified top speed on the CBR, but I've seen it kissing over 140. Rumour is that the CBR's gauge is +10% optimistic, so in actualality it was probably like 126. On the Ninja, which has extensively more fairing, I've had it over 150 kph GPS verified fully tucked and probably had some more. IIRC, Tony who's much lighter than I has had it over 175 verified. This is slightly faster than the US version....

[sinewave]

Yeah the CBR is kinda windy, especially after 120kph.

Although the ninja seat doesnt accomodate much shifting as you said, is it uncomfortable riding position?

It kinda seems like with a few modifications of the CBR -suspension, pipe, sprockets, repadded seat..almost on par with the ninja? (except absolute topend)

or

resprocket the ninja and it should be abe to keep up with the cbr per stoplight as mentioned.

know what the sprocket ratios are for the ninja? and your current sprockets for the cbr?

and imagine the ninja is much more suitable for highway travel, the cbr screams at high rpm...ninja just purrs? or does it scream like the cbr?

[BigBikeBKK]

My 2 Satang

Blasting up and down to Chiang Mai a few times on my Ninja 250R with the throttle wide open and an indicated 170km/hr on the speedo the Ninjette definitely screams, but above 9000 RPM's is where the fun is on that bike anyway. I have no experience with the CBR150 other than leaving them in the dust Dave thinks a CBR 150 has an advantage off the line over a Ninja 250R- based on my personal experience I highly doubt that... The exhaust on the Ninja 250R is extremely restricted and you can get a big power gain with an aftermarket pipe. While neither bike is a 'touring' bike, I put 12,000km on my Ninja in 6 months and found it quite well suited for touring in Thailand. Happy Trails!

[Richard-BKK]

An important point is Honda CBR-150R is soon end of production, the Kawasaki Ninja 250R is surely here to stay...

[thaicbr]

I have owned a cbr150 and ridden a ninja 250.

And can honestly say find a 2nd hand ninja it will be the best 100,000

+ baht you have spent. the ninja will cream the cbr over 100kmh and i think will also beat it from the lights (with the exhaust changed 100% will beat the cbr150).

I'm still considering my options 2nd hand old bi,big bike or nearly new mint ninja 250!. the front fork problem that Dave's talking about can be resolved ( dave i would be talking to Kawasaki to get them to sort it)

Allan

[sinewave]

The more I ride the more im starting to notice just how many cbr's are on the road. I have seen just slightly less cbr's than yama nouvos...I mean heck, there has to be atleast 1 guys bike in the midst of all these sissy step throughs...now if the yama 125 comes out, ohh man that would be great, always liked yama technology and power.

Overall if I can find a used ninja like thaicbr says for 100k, i think it should be a good deal and resale would probably hover at that point for quite some time.

just how much heavier is the ninja over the cbr? alot or just a smidgen more?

[dave_boo]

Yeah the CBR is kinda windy, especially after 120kph.

Although the ninja seat doesnt accomodate much shifting as you said, is it uncomfortable riding position?

It kinda seems like with a few modifications of the CBR -suspension, pipe, sprockets, repadded seat..almost on par with the ninja? (except absolute topend)

or

resprocket the ninja and it should be abe to keep up with the cbr per stoplight as mentioned.

know what the sprocket ratios are for the ninja? and your current sprockets for the cbr?

and imagine the ninja is much more suitable for highway travel, the cbr screams at high rpm...ninja just purrs? or does it scream like the cbr?

The ride is quite comfortable; but as on anything you get numb but if you keep the same position for an extended period of time...it seems a bit less 'encouraging' of shifting around than the long saddle of the CBR, rather forcing you to settle in a set location. However, it's a very comfortable position, in fact it feels like there's less reach to the bars, and thus less strain on the wrists, than on the CBR.

Modifications; hmm, well, at best you're going to get the CBR punched out to 198 (IIRC)cc. And than you have the added stresses. Granted Honda engineers are really, really good at what they do, but you're playing with fire when you start doing shit like that. But just remember that the buzz is going to be even more due to the greater mass flopping around in between your legs.

I've never seen any need for suspension mods on a CBR with the exception of increasing preload for my fat ass. Some guys loosen up the triple trees and slam the forks up quite a bit thus increasing the weight on the front end and reducing drag from under the bike. Don't know how effective it is 'cuz it seems to me like that would simply increase drag by exposing more of your body to the wind. It also puts yet more strain on your wrists.

The pipe is an excellent idea; make sure you also get the jets done cause you'll need the extra fuel to balance the air flowing through. It's generally accepted that the carb is inadequate on the CBR, a popular mod is putting a NSR 150 carb on there. This also requires a NSR throttle since the pull is longer.

Sprockets can be played with, there's a guy in the CBR thread who has been testing several different matches. You of course could get a really radical setup and wheelie (maybe..) away from any stock Ninja in town but be stuck at a max speed of 80 km/h.

A geared Ninja would definitely be better than a CBR in town except (and sorry Tony, but you're WRONG!) in the weaving through traffic. I've tried to reconcile the difference but the physical presence of the Ninja is just so larger that it doesn't have that zip zoom factor that the CBR exhibts. Another thing to consider is that the Ninja is quite gutless in regards to torque below the 8k RPM mark, above that and you're doing considerable speed even in lower gears. A CBR on the other hand seems to have better gearing (no doubt in realisation of the 'lil thumper mill in it needing to have good performance inlower gears) for keeping it high in the RPM range in lower gears and not be going at a totally insane speed for the rush hour traffic.

Screams? Granted I wear a full face helmet with a hookup to my GPS listening to tunes, but I hardly notice it. Plus both these bikes are designed to live in that RPM range. In top gear they are both running approximately the same RPM at the same speed (the Ninja does run a bit lower in the 300-600 RPM less area).

Total gearing on the Ninja ends up at 8.466 and the CBR is 8.825. Really close (the Ninja's engine is running 5% slower), so as I pointed out above they're run about the same RPM at the same speed.

As far as the resident's Kawasaki affiliate and all but self-confirmed CBR hater's claims go; there has been no other proof other than his posting that the CBR is going to be phased out of production. Honda has commited to a greener product line, but unless they're going to get rid of everything except for the small scooters (only one Wave I'm aware of, one Click, I think one Icon, and one Airblade) I just don't see it happening. Plus they'll have to keep stock in, so you don't have to worry about finding repair parts like some bikes do....

Also, per the manufacturer's numbers (lying bastards!) the Ninja gives up 54 kg to the CBR. However, the oft quoted 17 hp of the CBR means that with say a 75kg rider means that you're toting around 11.2kg/hp. Compare that with the Ninja's quoted 33 hp and same rider's ratio of 7.4kg/hp.......

I would be talking to Kawi about the fork, shoot I'll probably just buy a set of ex-500 springs or something, but I am on a limited schedule whilst in LOS. If Ohlins ever releases a fork set I'd probably be stupid and get that and the rear shock currently offered--no matter how foolish it is to put 50% of the bike's price into your suspension!

[thaicbr]

Dave. just sell the Ninja and stick with ya Cbr. Sinewave will give ya 100 grand for it. easy. shit i'm a cheap bastard and i would probably still give ya 90 thou :D

[LivinLOS]

I've never seen any need for suspension mods on a CBR with the exception of increasing preload for my fat ass. Some guys loosen up the triple trees and slam the forks up quite a bit thus increasing the weight on the front end and reducing drag from under the bike. Don't know how effective it is 'cuz it seems to me like that would simply increase drag by exposing more of your body to the wind. It also puts yet more strain on your wrists.

I always assumed that pushing the triples down the fork legs was to tighten the head angle thereby making it sharper (twitchier) to corner / change direction...

See the lads on hotted sonics and 2 stroke pocket rockets all doing it..

[dave_boo]

Dave. just sell the Ninja and stick with ya Cbr. Sinewave will give ya 100 grand for it. easy. shit i'm a cheap bastard and i would probably still give ya 90 thou

Grrh, right now the little brother in law is on the CBR plus I'm at least as cheap as you and would probably try and sell the bike thai style.... . Plus it's a good idea to have two bikes in case I get one bent up on another spill.

[T_Dog]

Anyone want to comment about vibration between the two bikes? My biggest complaint about the CBR-150 is that one-up, my hands sometimes go numb. Two-up, or some reason, no problem. (The frame must get more tension in it and dampen the vibration more?) I see Ninja's appearing on the used market, even a nice green one in Thai Visa classified so my next bike will most likely be the Ninja.

Edited April 22, 2009 by T_Dog

[wrathfultalon]

Anyone want to comment about vibration between the two bikes? My biggest complaint about the CBR-150 is that one-up, my hands sometimes go numb. Two-up, or some reason, no problem. (The frame must get more tension in it and dampen the vibration more?) I see Ninja's appearing on the used market, even a nice green one in Thai Visa classified so my next bike will most likely be the Ninja.

its a proven fact mean green kawi's look and go faster then all the rest. Especially those owned by Bard!

[dave_boo]

Anyone want to comment about vibration between the two bikes? My biggest complaint about the CBR-150 is that one-up, my hands sometimes go numb. Two-up, or some reason, no problem. (The frame must get more tension in it and dampen the vibration more?) I see Ninja's appearing on the used market, even a nice green one in Thai Visa classified so my next bike will most likely be the Ninja.

The Kawi is much smoother. A twin cylinder heavier bike should be though; shouldn't it?

I think the fact that the bike is more leveled and thus less strain on your wrists is more likely the reason that you don't have as much numbness going on when you're two up.

And for anybody that thinks I'm promoting the CBR over the Ninja here's a quote for you, "The Ninja is a fabulous step up from the CBR 150". The power is better, it runs more smoothly at the speeds the bikes are capable of, offers better windflow protection (and thus less fatiguing ride) and let's face it; the looks are better (CBR still doesn't look bad and was the best looking bike in that class but the times they are a'changing). The Ninja's added power is good for those coming from a CBR who've either not ridden for a while and got the CBR to get back in the groove or those who started on a CBR. I want to believe that the prices on the big bikes are going to continue to go down, but there's always the ER-6* at a good price point on the way up to the 'real' bikes.

[miguelitonz]

I have both bikes. I use my cbr for around town and going to lotus etc. It was made as a sporty town bike. going over 85km/h they start to vibrate and your hands get a bit numb. they are also very small and its not until you get on something like a baby ninja that you realize that the cbr is just a toy in comparison.

you can still get around every bit as easy on a ninja. i would get the ninja for sure. you can also pick up a really good second hand cbr for around 30,000 and use it as a second bike or your around town bike.

in conclusion if you really want to go far and like the open road get the ninja.

[Richard-BKK]

I think the END of PRODUCTION, which I said about one year ago, says enough about the Honda CBR150R, its out of production and soon will become a well loved classic bike.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[Zzinged]

I have both bikes. I use my cbr for around town and going to lotus etc. It was made as a sporty town bike. going over 85km/h they start to vibrate and your hands get a bit numb. they are also very small and its not until you get on something like a baby ninja that you realize that the cbr is just a toy in comparison.

you can still get around every bit as easy on a ninja. i would get the ninja for sure. you can also pick up a really good second hand cbr for around 30,000 and use it as a second bike or your around town bike.

in conclusion if you really want to go far and like the open road get the ninja.

This thread is over a year old. I think the OP would have made some sort of decision by now

[PeaceBlondie]

My CBR's don't vibrate or go numb at any speed.

[visions]

My CBR's don't vibrate or go numb at any speed.

My current CBR doesnt vibrate either...but my first bike did. I noticed a big difference in smoothness between the 2 bikes. So obviously there is a balancing aspect needs addressing on vibrating bikes...wheels probably but maybe engine???

Also I cannot understand how some say about strain on the wrists?? There is no weight on my wrists at all?? My wrists come off the bars at horozontal...if there were any weight they would get forced to rotate under the bars, which doesnt happen.

I have ridden non stop for 500km several times (except for gas fills and I dont get off the bike) no wrist strain, no sore ass, no squashed nuts. Stiff joints sure... from locked into one position for an extended time, but short walk and all is ok. I am no teen rider either just the opposite, maybe even the oldest CBR rider in Thailand.

[PeaceBlondie]

No limp wrists for me, either - and I'm gay.

[BigBikeBKK]

No limp wrists for me, either - and I'm gay.

Ahahahahahahaahahah!!!!!

[Just1Voice]

Yeah the CBR is kinda windy, especially after 120kph.

Although the ninja seat doesnt accomodate much shifting as you said, is it uncomfortable riding position?

It kinda seems like with a few modifications of the CBR -suspension, pipe, sprockets, repadded seat..almost on par with the ninja? (except absolute topend)

or

resprocket the ninja and it should be abe to keep up with the cbr per stoplight as mentioned.

know what the sprocket ratios are for the ninja? and your current sprockets for the cbr?

and imagine the ninja is much more suitable for highway travel, the cbr screams at high rpm...ninja just purrs? or does it scream like the cbr?

The ride is quite comfortable; but as on anything you get numb but if you keep the same position for an extended period of time...it seems a bit less 'encouraging' of shifting around than the long saddle of the CBR, rather forcing you to settle in a set location. However, it's a very comfortable position, in fact it feels like there's less reach to the bars, and thus less strain on the wrists, than on the CBR.

Modifications; hmm, well, at best you're going to get the CBR punched out to 198 (IIRC)cc. And than you have the added stresses. Granted Honda engineers are really, really good at what they do, but you're playing with fire when you start doing shit like that. But just remember that the buzz is going to be even more due to the greater mass flopping around in between your legs.

I've never seen any need for suspension mods on a CBR with the exception of increasing preload for my fat ass. Some guys loosen up the triple trees and slam the forks up quite a bit thus increasing the weight on the front end and reducing drag from under the bike. Don't know how effective it is 'cuz it seems to me like that would simply increase drag by exposing more of your body to the wind. It also puts yet more strain on your wrists.

The pipe is an excellent idea; make sure you also get the jets done cause you'll need the extra fuel to balance the air flowing through. It's generally accepted that the carb is inadequate on the CBR, a popular mod is putting a NSR 150 carb on there. This also requires a NSR throttle since the pull is longer.

Sprockets can be played with, there's a guy in the CBR thread who has been testing several different matches. You of course could get a really radical setup and wheelie (maybe..) away from any stock Ninja in town but be stuck at a max speed of 80 km/h.

A geared Ninja would definitely be better than a CBR in town except (and sorry Tony, but you're WRONG!) in the weaving through traffic. I've tried to reconcile the difference but the physical presence of the Ninja is just so larger that it doesn't have that zip zoom factor that the CBR exhibts. Another thing to consider is that the Ninja is quite gutless in regards to torque below the 8k RPM mark, above that and you're doing considerable speed even in lower gears. A CBR on the other hand seems to have better gearing (no doubt in realisation of the 'lil thumper mill in it needing to have good performance inlower gears) for keeping it high in the RPM range in lower gears and not be going at a totally insane speed for the rush hour traffic.

Screams? Granted I wear a full face helmet with a hookup to my GPS listening to tunes, but I hardly notice it. Plus both these bikes are designed to live in that RPM range. In top gear they are both running approximately the same RPM at the same speed (the Ninja does run a bit lower in the 300-600 RPM less area).

Total gearing on the Ninja ends up at 8.466 and the CBR is 8.825. Really close (the Ninja's engine is running 5% slower), so as I pointed out above they're run about the same RPM at the same speed.

As far as the resident's Kawasaki affiliate and all but self-confirmed CBR hater's claims go; there has been no other proof other than his posting that the CBR is going to be phased out of production. Honda has commited to a greener product line, but unless they're going to get rid of everything except for the small scooters (only one Wave I'm aware of, one Click, I think one Icon, and one Airblade) I just don't see it happening. Plus they'll have to keep stock in, so you don't have to worry about finding repair parts like some bikes do....

Also, per the manufacturer's numbers (lying bastards!) the Ninja gives up 54 kg to the CBR. However, the oft quoted 17 hp of the CBR means that with say a 75kg rider means that you're toting around 11.2kg/hp. Compare that with the Ninja's quoted 33 hp and same rider's ratio of 7.4kg/hp.......

I would be talking to Kawi about the fork, shoot I'll probably just buy a set of ex-500 springs or something, but I am on a limited schedule whilst in LOS. If Ohlins ever releases a fork set I'd probably be stupid and get that and the rear shock currently offered--no matter how foolish it is to put 50% of the bike's price into your suspension!

Dave, as I stated in another posting, I sent an email to Honda of Thailand in regards to the CBR. They sent an email back with a phone number to call them. I had my wife talk to them and ask them the same questions I put in my email. Bottom line, they have killed production on the CBR 150, and have no plans to come out with either a 200 or 250, and are putting all their efforts into the PCX and Scoopy.

I went and looked at the Ninja 250 today, but not sure the "double price" would really be worth it. Besides, I have a feeling the resale value of the CBR 150 is going to go way up soon. Not that it's bad right now. Mine is 14 months old, still in mint condition, and last week I was offered 60,000 baht for it. I told him I wasn't ready to sell. He said to call him first when I am. lol

Edited June 19, 2010 by Just1Voice

[Just1Voice]

Ok, too many unanswered questions and doubts from Honda. Screw this, I'm going with the Ninja 250. Which means my CBR is for sale.

14 months old

Still looks like new

6,445 kilometers

regular scheduled maintenance.

60,000 baht.

If interested, send me a PM.