Advertised Condo Rental Price Versus Realistic

[phetaroi]

I will be arriving in Thailand in late May for long-term retirement. Once the retirement visa is complete in late August, I will want to rent a condo. I am looking primarily at Phrom Pong and other places that are convenient to the Skytrain or subway.

If a condo rental is advertised on real estate sites for 70,000 THB per month, what is the realistic monthly rent price one could get that down to if not going through an agency? I know this will vary, but I'm just trying to get an idea.

[Boater]

an agency will recieve 1 months rent as commission.

but generaly on a 70 K condo you could knock them down to 50K per month, but as the 'shit is hitting the fan' in BKK at the moment, by the time you get here you could even get it cheaper........

[think_too_mut]

I will be arriving in Thailand in late May for long-term retirement. Once the retirement visa is complete in late August, I will want to rent a condo. I am looking primarily at Phrom Pong and other places that are convenient to the Skytrain or subway.

If a condo rental is advertised on real estate sites for 70,000 THB per month, what is the realistic monthly rent price one could get that down to if not going through an agency? I know this will vary, but I'm just trying to get an idea.

Around my former place (Sukhumvit +) there were dozens of handwritten cardboard ads on poles advertising units for rent. The price was the same as through an agency - tight ass owners did not want to give 1 month commission.

Could be, it could be had cheaper (70K down to 60~K) but then you are on your own - no contract, what happens to 2 months deposit when you want to move out, any other disputes or damage/repairs?

Edited April 23, 2009 by think_too_mut

[namoo]

but generaly on a 70 K condo you could knock them down to 50K per month

Really. I wouldn't bank on this in the area you are looking at it. I have stayed in the phrom pong area for years. and never known a rental for 70k to go for 50k.

A 70k rental in say soi 24 - The owner will probably let it go for 60 (If you are very lucky)-65k. More than likely 65k but you my get them to include ubc or internet at 65k. Most of the Thai owners would rather leave it empty than let it go for 50k. If you offer to sign up for a 2 year contract gives you more bargaining power obviously.

The Phrom Prong rentals so far are holding there value at the moment despite the economic downturn. Great area tho.

Edited April 23, 2009 by namoo

[hhgz]

There are a lot of listings on the internet. Once you find what you like, you can make an offer.

[Asianrider]

You never know till you make a crazy offer, every agent / landord has different priorites. Other negotiating options include paying up front for the rental term, or committing to an extended term. Good luck.

[midas]

but generaly on a 70 K condo you could knock them down to 50K per month

Really. I wouldn't bank on this in the area you are looking at it. I have stayed in the phrom pong area for years. and never known a rental for 70k to go for 50k.

A 70k rental in say soi 24 - The owner will probably let it go for 60 (If you are very lucky)-65k. More than likely 65k but you my get them to include ubc or internet at 65k. Most of the Thai owners would rather leave it empty than let it go for 50k. If you offer to sign up for a 2 year contract gives you more bargaining power obviously.

The Phrom Prong rentals so far are holding there value at the moment despite the economic downturn. Great area tho.

Completely disagree! This is now very much a tenants market and in that area

many Japanese and executives from other countries have been sent home.

The market comprises a very wide variety of onwers with differing capabilities

of riding out this downturn and now some will even drop their pants to get a tenant.

Just go around as many as you can without expressing any opinions/ feelings

during the inspection and then go back to them and submit a low offer and you will find

at least one of them will buckle

[namoo]

Completely disagree! This is now very much a tenants market and in that area

You would be suprised. You are incorrect - let me give u some recent examples in the last 3 weeks FACT not economic assumption!

Baan Siri 24 - 3 bedroom asking price 100,000 - would not accept 85,000 (3 units different owners) min 90,000

Siri Residence - 3 bedroom asking price 110,000 - lowest acceptable to him 100,000

Casa 24 - 3 bedroom 95,000 - building owner unwilling to accept anything less than 90,000 (Watch the elec,ubc,water,internet charge here)

Ideal 24 - 4 Bedroom 180,000 - will not accept less than 150,000 (lowest floor unit)

Prime Mansion 31 - 2 bedroom 105,000 - no less than 90,000.

The above are all Thai owners and the units furnished to a well above average standard.

Emporio - didn't check but knowing Thai landlords they will put them on at a high price with little margin for bargaining simply because its new and offers BIG FACE if you stay there because its the newest to open

I would hardly say they are dramatic drops in prices due to the economic crisis. There are still a lot of japanese executives in my condo on 24 and more arriving almost weekly - 90% occupancy is Japanese! Tenants market in phrom pong area is a myth when it comes to the higher end.

And quite frankly the Thai's who purchased the above level of condo (upto 35million baht) have enough cash to just leave it empty - and believe me that is exactly what they do - ask any of the better agents in that area they will agree.

Edited April 27, 2009 by namoo

[midas]

Completely disagree! This is now very much a tenants market and in that area

You would be suprised. You are incorrect - let me give u some recent examples in the last 3 weeks FACT not economic assumption!

Baan Siri 24 - 3 bedroom asking price 100,000 - would not accept 85,000 (3 units different owners) min 90,000

Siri Residence - 3 bedroom asking price 110,000 - lowest acceptable to him 100,000

Casa 24 - 3 bedroom 95,000 - building owner unwilling to accept anything less than 90,000 (Watch the elec,ubc,water,internet charge here)

Ideal 24 - 4 Bedroom 180,000 - will not accept less than 150,000 (lowest floor unit)

Prime Mansion 31 - 2 bedroom 105,000 - no less than 90,000.

The above are all Thai owners and the units furnished to a well above average standard.

Emporio - didn't check but knowing Thai landlords they will put them on at a high price with little margin for bargaining simply because its new and offers BIG FACE if you stay there because its the newest to open

I would hardly say they are dramatic drops in prices due to the economic crisis. There are still a lot of japanese executives in my condo on 24 and more arriving almost weekly - 90% occupancy is Japanese! Tenants market in phrom pong area is a myth when it comes to the higher end.

And quite frankly the Thai's who purchased the above level of condo (upto 35million baht) have enough cash to just leave it empty - and believe me that is exactly what they do - ask any of the better agents in that area they will agree.

Well I'm not an estate agent whereas obviously you are to be able to rattle off

all these examples.

There is a huge disparity between what your saying and my recent experience

I only know that after accompanying friend around a large number of fully finished available condos

about two months ago-many of the owners we met where actually present in the properties

all weekend to try and generate some enthusiasm. After my friend was contacted

incessantly by a number of these owners where they almost pleaded with him

to choose their property. After this just to test the market offers were submitted

at between 25-30 % below the asking and not one owner disagreed!

As you and I are unlikely to agree on this -the best solution is for the OP

and any others reading this thread to try submitting a low offer-I mean it doesn't

cost anything and who knows somebody might accept -after all

that is the usual way markets operate isn't it ( except for those

who think Bangkok is miraculously different from the rest of the world ) !

Edited April 27, 2009 by midas

[smellyfarang]

Other threads also warn about the maintenance fees not being paid in many buildings, which leads to all sorts of problems. Something else to check before you commit.

-Smelly

[namoo]

Well I'm not an estate agent whereas obviously you are to be able to rattle off

all these examples.

Not at all I have just moved condo from that area to another in the same area this week after condo hunting for the last 3 weeks - they were the results. Why would I lie about it! I am just showing u factual figures on actual named buildings - Facts are what Thai Visa seems to be short of from what I can see.

A lot of know it all's come out with nonsense and do not back it up with the facts - because they heard it in a soi 22 beer bar so it must be true.

Anyway, of course make an offer much less than the asking price - anyone with common sense would do that and not need hear the suggestion on TV.

My point is this a low offer on a high end condo in phrom pong at the moment will more than likely be refused as it stands this month. Of course keep trying chances are one with not so nice furnitue, low floor, bad view may accept it - where the quality units at the higher price in the building will tell u too F off.

A low offer on the sub 40k condo's may of course be accepted as 20% knock down on 40k is somewhat different to 20% knock down in price on 120k.

Edited April 27, 2009 by namoo

[Gary A]

Tight ass owners? What's the difference between an agent and an owner renting out a condo? Pretty easy, the owner won't steal his own money and he may even attempt to do a background check on a potential renter.

[midas]

Well I'm not an estate agent whereas obviously you are to be able to rattle off

all these examples.

Not at all I have just moved condo from that area to another in the same area this week after condo hunting for the last 3 weeks - they were the results. Why would I lie about it! I am just showing u factual figures on actual named buildings - Facts are what Thai Visa seems to be short of from what I can see.

A lot of know it all's come out with nonsense and do not back it up with the facts - because they heard it in a soi 22 beer bar so it must be true.

Anyway, of course make an offer much less than the asking price - anyone with common sense would do that and not need hear the suggestion on TV.

My point is this a low offer on a high end condo in phrom pong at the moment will more than likely be refused as it stands this month. Of course keep trying chances are one with not so nice furnitue, low floor, bad view may accept it - where the quality units at the higher price in the building will tell u too F off.

A low offer on the sub 40k condo's may of course be accepted as 20% knock down on 40k is somewhat different to 20% knock down in price on 120k.

The ones we looked at were also in the 60-70,000 price range.

Time and time again we hear this myth that the entire condo market

is comprised of rich Thai's that can afford to sit on empty condos

and even if this is true in the past maybe just maybe one or two

of them are realizing how different this downturn for Thailand

is going to be so much more different from anything in the past

and so in those cases they will stop dreaming and consider any offer

[namoo]

this myth that the entire condo market is comprised of rich Thai's

Nobody claimed the entire condo market of course!

However your average working-middle class Thai cannot afford to buy a 30 million baht condo in Phrom Pong can they. It is those Thai's that are fairly well to do that are able to do it. I think its fair to say the Thai's who own the High-End condo's are rich by Thai standards and indeed at that level western standards.

A lot of them take it as a personal insult if u offer say 100k a month on a 130k rental and will just say no on principle because they can afford to do so.

one or two of them are realizing how different this downturn for Thailand

I agree there are probably 1 or 2.

Edited April 27, 2009 by namoo

[midas]

this myth that the entire condo market is comprised of rich Thai's

Nobody claimed the entire condo market of course!

However your average working-middle class Thai cannot afford to buy a 30 million baht condo in Phrom Pong can they. It is those Thai's that are fairly well to do that are able to do it. I think its fair to say the Thai's who own the High-End condo's are rich by Thai standards and indeed at that level western standards.

A lot of them take it as a personal insult if u offer say 100k a month on a 130k rental and will just say no on principle because they can afford to do so.

one or two of them are realizing how different this downturn for Thailand

I agree there are probably 1 or 2.

Hold on Mr Estate Agent - you don't have any evidence whatsoever to back up an argument that no matter how rich they are

some of them (maybe many of them ) would prefer to have a tenant pay something rather than nothing if they could find a tenant.

Real estate is very much a lagging indicator and things continue to get tighter because they are

( political crisis, now swine flu ) is going to hit tourism like a freight train.

Let's check back in about 6-12v months shall we and see if all these people you are talking about

have changed their attitude in any way

[namoo]

Let's check back in about 6-12v months shall we and see if all these people you are talking about

have changed their attitude in any way

I won't hold my breath. Anyway glad I found my condo - not so many quality empty ones available in Phrom Pong......sign of the times I guess

There is not a shortage of people looking for condo's in that area. Last month my agent had one of her busiest months this year for rentals. She stated that sales are slowing but has not noticed a decline in rental clients so far.

Anyway boring argument now that I have provided overwhelming factual information. Lets check back in 12 months shall we

Edited April 27, 2009 by namoo

[midas]

Let's check back in about 6-12v months shall we and see if all these people you are talking about

have changed their attitude in any way

I won't hold my breath. Anyway glad I found my condo - not so many quality empty ones available in Phrom Pong......sign of the times I guess

There is not a shortage of people looking for condo's in that area. Last month my agent had one of her busiest months this year for rentals. She stated that sales are slowing but has not noticed a decline in rental clients so far.

Anyway boring argument now that I have provided overwhelming factual information. Lets check back in 12 months shall we

Yes very boring argument with someone who clearly has a vested interest

in trying to dissuade people from trying to negotiate a good reduction in the asking rent ( maybe quite substantial )

So my message to OP is that the absolute worst that can happen to you when looking for " quality units at the higher price "

is that you'll be tols to " too F off." as our real estate consultant namoo so eloquently puts it.

But if you go direct without an agent you well may find one (and possibly a lot more ) owner

that will willingly accept your offer and as I said it costs absolutely nothing to try -

you may be pleasantly surprised as my friend was

[midas]

Let's check back in about 6-12v months shall we and see if all these people you are talking about

have changed their attitude in any way

I won't hold my breath. Anyway glad I found my condo - not so many quality empty ones available in Phrom Pong......sign of the times I guess

There is not a shortage of people looking for condo's in that area. Last month my agent had one of her busiest months this year for rentals. She stated that sales are slowing but has not noticed a decline in rental clients so far.

Anyway boring argument now that I have provided overwhelming factual information. Lets check back in 12 months shall we

Yes very boring argument with someone who clearly has a vested interest

in trying to dissuade people from securing a good reduction in the asking rent ( maybe quite substantial )

So my message to the OP is that the absolute worst that can happen to you when looking for " quality units at the higher price "

is that you'll be told to " too F off." as our real estate consultant namoo so eloquently puts it.

But if you go direct without an agent you well may find one (and possibly a lot more ) owner

that will willingly accept your offer and as I said it costs absolutely nothing to try -

you may be pleasantly surprised as my friend was

[trogers]

Not at all I have just moved condo from that area to another in the same area this week after condo hunting for the last 3 weeks - they were the results. Why would I lie about it! I am just showing u factual figures on actual named buildings - Facts are what Thai Visa seems to be short of from what I can see.

A lot of know it all's come out with nonsense and do not back it up with the facts - because they heard it in a soi 22 beer bar so it must be true.

Anyway, of course make an offer much less than the asking price - anyone with common sense would do that and not need hear the suggestion on TV.

My point is this a low offer on a high end condo in phrom pong at the moment will more than likely be refused as it stands this month. Of course keep trying chances are one with not so nice furnitue, low floor, bad view may accept it - where the quality units at the higher price in the building will tell u too F off.

A low offer on the sub 40k condo's may of course be accepted as 20% knock down on 40k is somewhat different to 20% knock down in price on 120k.

One more reason why acquiring old condo in this location, refurbishing it, and renting it out, becomes an attractive investment. Rental gap is too high. There will be demand for something in between.

I am renovating a 163 m2 3-bedroom/2bathroom unit (9th floor) in Premier. Scheduled for renting out end Sep 2009. Asking rent will be Bt55,000 basic. Do you think there is demand from your client pool?

Edited April 27, 2009 by trogers

[robblok]

Its always the same people who have invested in condo's say the price stays high and others say it stays low.

But to be honest in times like this prices do go down everywhere, thing is the people with money invested in it deny it because if things are generally known things will get even worse.

And yes there are of course bottom prices but still now the market has shifted in favor of those wanting to rent.

[namoo]

Do you think there is demand from your client pool?

I dont know as I am not a agent. But as you are already aware demand is ALWAYS high on that particular soi. Good luck with it - I liked what you did with your other renovation there.

[Scott123]

Around my former place (Sukhumvit +) there were dozens of handwritten cardboard ads on poles advertising units for rent. The price was the same as through an agency - tight ass owners did not want to give 1 month commission.

Could be, it could be had cheaper (70K down to 60~K) but then you are on your own - no contract, what happens to 2 months deposit when you want to move out, any other disputes or damage/repairs?

Agents get commission for finding tenant for the owner. They get their one month commssion immediately from the 2 months deposit you pay at the time of signing contract. They are not responsible for anything after the contract has been signed. In fact, the agents always work for owners (because this is where the commisson comes from), not for tenants. Many agents disappear from tenants sight immediately after the contract is signed, won't even bother to return phone calls or email.

[think_too_mut]

Agents get commission for finding tenant for the owner. They get their one month commssion immediately from the 2 months deposit you pay at the time of signing contract. They are not responsible for anything after the contract has been signed. In fact, the agents always work for owners (because this is where the commisson comes from), not for tenants. Many agents disappear from tenants sight immediately after the contract is signed, won't even bother to return phone calls or email.

Are you saying that a contract with an agency is equally binding as cash in hand and verball agreement with the owner directly?

[garyk]

Are you nuts... Getting on here and asking for help finding a 70,000 baht condo...

Come here rent a hotel and look around for a few months... I don't know your history or money situation. But If you are asking this question. With out searching and finding out for your self.. Then you will be another retired guy getting f---d.

WOW...

If you want to give 70,000 I will give you my house and my wife.... Even the wife will be happy about the arrangment...

[phetaroi]

Are you nuts... Getting on here and asking for help finding a 70,000 baht condo...

Come here rent a hotel and look around for a few months... I don't know your history or money situation. But If you are asking this question. With out searching and finding out for your self.. Then you will be another retired guy getting f---d.

WOW...

If you want to give 70,000 I will give you my house and my wife.... Even the wife will be happy about the arrangment...

I suggest you chill out a little with the attitude. I've gotten over 20 responses that were helpful and courteous.

1. No, I'm not "nuts".

2. No, I didn't ask for help finding a condo.

3. Crude language isn't necessary on this forum.

If you actually read my OP and thought about it, what I asked about were experiences people had comparing advertised prices with actual prices.

[Lorin]

15%-20% discounts from the published rates are normal rite now in BKK, i got that back in October 2008 when renting mine, friend of mine just got it as well last month.

[Moonfruit]

10% normally expected discount from the advertised rate, though if the place has been empty for a while then expect a little more.

Of course, this being Thailand there are those anomaly cases where the owners will NOT negotiate at all, but then again you can just steer clear of those units. Also, expect less discount if you have a long list of changes/additions/improvements to the unit.

There are particular buildings which enjoy full occupancy, even in todays market, and so they are obviously less willing to negotiate, and yes, many of those are in the Phrom Phong area.

I love the way its always the guy who's 'friend' achieved the massive discount, while the person who actually rented a unit at a price they are happy with with is the civil tone.

[HardenedSoul]

If you're not wholly embarrased by your offer then you need to reduce it

[zeynel]

i rent my apt at sathorn. she asked for 80 000 plus 2 months deposit. i offered 55 000, pay a year in advance and no deposit and she agreed. maybe me not being alone but living with my wife made the owner to decide about the deposit on our advantage but nobody knows what the owners decision is based on.

If you are good in human relations, take your time and try to figure out what the owner will accept and offer it if you really like the place.

[ThaiPauly]

To the OP

If you have up to 70k a month to rent a property have you looked at what that would get you in Chiang Mai.?

A Palace

There are a lot of very happy ex-pat retirees living up here.

I retired here at 48, I tried living in BK but it was just too darn frantic, not to mention expensive.

I would have kept a small place there just to stay over on weekends , but the deal fell through ,then prices climbed so I did not bother, glad I never now, but the hospitals are definatley better in BK

Still you may have good reason to want to live in BK up to you as they say