Syphilis Test Mandatory For Wp?

[Jimjim]

30 baht for the medical certificate? Cost me 200 in Bangkok.

[Maestro]

harrry , if you were an employer, in any country, would you employ a person suffering from alcoholism? I don’t mean a person who drinks alcohol, but a person suffering from alcoholism.

Aside from that, I understand from another topic in this forum that not alcoholism but syphilis is the new addition to the form:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Syphilis-Tes...Wp-t261099.html

--

Maestro

[harrry]

harrry , if you were an employer, in any country, would you employ a person suffering from alcoholism? I don’t mean a person who drinks alcohol, but a person suffering from alcoholism.

Aside from that, I understand from another topic in this forum that not alcoholism but syphilis is the new addition to the form:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Syphilis-Tes...Wp-t261099.html

--

Maestro

Syphilis has allways been on the form as with tb and elaphantitis. I believe HIV was for a time until International pressure forced its reoval.

And to answer your question about employing No I would not.

[Tywais]

Syphilis has allways been on the form as with tb and elaphantitis. I believe HIV was for a time until International pressure forced its reoval.

There are two law sites specializing in work permits and other expat related law issues that show otherwise. All the above except syphilis is shown in their list of requirements on their website, the syphilis only shows in the new requirements on the downloadable pdf file above.

[Maestro]

Syphilis has allways been on the form as with tb and elaphantitis...

Based on your above statement I find it expedient to merge your topic with the other topic saying that syphilis is the new addition, so that this questing may get sorted out there.

--

Maestro

P.S. I see that an answer has already been given in the post above this one.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Maestro
Added postscript - Maestro

[callum06]

And your 20 baht medical form says what?

Medical form says that i am a healthy young man that doesn't have any STD's... this was obtained from my local doctor and the only question he asked was : How do you spell your full name. That was it

[harrry]

I stand corrected in that syphallis is apparently the new requirement for the Work permit although it has been the requirement in other government medicals such as retirement visas for some time. My misunderstanding was based on the assumption that the requirements for government medicals were standard.

Alchaholism is only a requirement for working here and not a requirement for visas.

I believe however that the requirement is that the doctor certifies not that tests are administered.

[FRM-BKK]

I stand corrected in that syphallis is apparently the new requirement for the Work permit although it has been the requirement in other government medicals such as retirement visas for some time.

I had my medical tests for my new work permit done today at Bangkok Christian Hospital.

A blood sample was taken to test for Syphilis.

I had to return an hour later for the results and the certificate.

Results: Syphilis - negative, certificate issued.

500 THB.

Another requirement in the new rules states that the certificate has to be issued by a 1st class clinic.

Hence my visit to Bangkok Christian Hospital. I would have gone to my clinic where I get my driving license health certificate (50 THB) but did not want to take the risk of having it refused and thereby prolonging the process of the application.

Frm-Bkk

[CosmicSurfer]

Syphallis is specifically requested... But not HIV....

When was the last time you'd heard about someone contracting syphallis?

Or infecting someone?

More Thai Idiocy.

CS

[Maestro]

...Another requirement in the new rules states that the certificate has to be issued by a 1st class clinic.

Do the rules state that?

...

The following documents must be attached to a Work Permit application:

A recent medical certificate from a first-class licensed physician in Thailand stating that the applicant is not of unsound mind and not suffering from leprosy, acute tuberculosis, elephantiasis, narcotic addition or habitual alcoholism.

From Kitti Law Office ...

Is it possible that you misinterpreted “first-class licensed physician” (I wonder what that is in the Thai text but I have an idea)

--

Maestro

[FRM-BKK]

...Another requirement in the new rules states that the certificate has to be issued by a 1st class clinic.

Do the rules state that?

...

The following documents must be attached to a Work Permit application:

A recent medical certificate from a first-class licensed physician in Thailand stating that the applicant is not of unsound mind and not suffering from leprosy, acute tuberculosis, elephantiasis, narcotic addition or habitual alcoholism.

From Kitti Law Office ...

Is it possible that you misinterpreted “first-class licensed physician” (I wonder what that is in the Thai text but I have an idea)

--

Maestro

You may well be correct in that assumption. I was not even aware that in this country we have different "classes" of physicians.

I must admit that when I had my health-check for my driving license (50 THB) I was only looked at, asked for 50 baht and given the certificate

Frm-Bkk

[Maestro]

The Medicines Act makes a distinction between “modern medicine” and “old-fashioned medicine” (herbal medicine, acupuncture, etc.) and consequently between “practitioner of modern medicine” and “practitioner of old-fashioned medicine”. So the “first-class physician” in the list of requirements for the work permit must be the “practitioner of modern medicine”

--

Maestro

[FRM-BKK]

The Medicines Act makes a distinction between “modern medicine” and “old-fashioned medicine” (herbal medicine, acupuncture, etc.) and consequently between “practitioner of modern medicine” and “practitioner of old-fashioned medicine”. So the “first-class physician” in the list of requirements for the work permit must be the “practitioner of modern medicine”

--

Maestro

Thank you for your clarification Maestro.

Frm-Bkk

[dbrenn]

The only time I had a syphillis test was for my PR application. The work permit medical is a bit of a joke - down to the local clinic, doctor waves a stethoscope in your general direction, asks you if you feel OK, then gives you the certificate.

Hmmm, I must have this itchy rash looked at ...

[TheChiefJustice]

When was the last time you'd heard about someone contracting syphallis?

Or infecting someone?

More Thai Idiocy.

CS

One imagines that those with Syphilis do not go about advertising the fact. There are about 40,000 cases per year in the USA. More in other more populated parts of the world.

[Maestro]

From the Medicines Act B.E. 2510 (1967)

English translation made by International Translations: Practitioner in the modern art of healing

Now I would only need to have access to the Thai original from which the website of Sunbelt Asia made the English translation “first-class licensed physician” and my curiosity whether the same Thai terminology is used would be satisfied. It would not surprise me if a different term were used by the Employment Department, as different ministries or even different departments within the same ministry rarely, if ever, cross-reference with each other.

--

Maestro

[kriswillems]

There is no Syphilis blood-test necessary for the following reason:

The Thai version of the document talks about:

โรคซิฟิลิสระยะ3

Which means syphilis in the third stage.

Somebody with syphilis in the third stage looks really bad and a doctor doesn't need to do a blood-test to see you have syphylis in this stage.

Having syphilis in stage 1 or 2 should not be a reason for refusing a WP.

Edited May 1, 2009 by kriswillems

[lopburi3]

That was also true is the retirement medical form (third stage) so a brief physical exam should be all that is required; and was all that was required even at top hospitals.

[ubonjoe]

It is also called for in the medical certificate for a non-oa visa.

I think this is the standard medical certificate used here with the english translation typed in.

Link: http://www.thaiembdc.org/FORM/1a004.pdf

[geriatrickid]

Syphallis is specifically requested... But not HIV....

When was the last time you'd heard about someone contracting syphallis?

Or infecting someone?

More Thai Idiocy.

CS

No it is not idiocy. There is a valid reason for the the test.

Please understand that syphilis doesn't necessarily show symptoms at stage 1 or stage 2. By the time it is diagnosed in older patients, it can be too late. It is at epidemic rates for eastern Europe and central Asia. To make the rule work it has to be applied across the board. By having one rule for all foreigners it eliminates anyone raising allegations of discrimination.

The number of new reported syphilis cases in Germany is now 3X what it was 10 years ago. In fact, Germany is syphilis central in the EU. Kazahkstan and Uzbekistan have a major problem with syphilis. Think about it. Where do many of those foreign ladies of the night one sees in Pattaya come from?

Almost 3200 new cases were identified in Germany last year. When calculating the likelihood of actual infection, you extrapolate using a multiplier. A realistic person uses at least a factor of 10.

I bet you didn't know that the UK had a significant syphilis problem between 2004 and 2007? The numbers only came down last year after a major effort by the public health authorities in the UK. (They did a fantastic job in cutting the newly diagnosed cases from 3000+ to 1000+). How could the Thais say to someone from the EU, ok if you are from Poland but testing mandatory for Germans. The EU and especially the Germans would have a fit.

Late syphilis incidence in Russia was running at 50/100,000 people back in 1998 and had only dropped to about 38/100,000 before the Russians stopped reporting. That's seriously crazy when compared to Switzerland and the Netherlands that run at about 1/100,000.

In the EU, one could speculate about the role of recent immigrants in those numbers, but if the Thai government only imposed the rule based upon ethnic origins, people would be claiming racisim etc.

Please understand also that the test is also a requirement of other countries for Thais seeking long term visas and that the Thai approach is alot more accomodating. For example, Thais wishing to teach in Canada have to go to one of 5 approved physicians in Thailand (5 in Bangkok and 1 in ChiangMai) and have a thorough medical examination. The Canadian standards are onerous and would be considered discriminatory if you were Thai, because an Australian or UK citizen doesn't have to undergo the same exam.

I appreciate that the thread is about the requirement for a syphilis test, but I don't want the perception that this is somehow an unfair or an unwarranted requirement to persist. Having a test isn't going to hurt anyone and just might save someone's life. Once blood is drawn for the other tests it can be done at the same time with no additional inconvenience.

Edited May 2, 2009 by geriatrickid

[lopburi3]

There is no requirement for blood drawing. The check is an exam for stage 3.

[RPCVguy]

I am in a rush for my WP application. Now all of a sudden they require a syphilis test. How to get it, prferrebly without the real test...?

PM me please.

PS: I am sure not to have but I do not like the hassle for the test.

The health certificate asks for this information, and is required on obtaining a long term visa. I obtained my retirement visa while in my home country and indeed needed to get all tests completed. Doctors in my home would not skate any details.

[witsawakorn]

Syphallis is specifically requested... But not HIV....

When was the last time you'd heard about someone contracting syphallis?

Or infecting someone?

More Thai Idiocy.

CS

It might not be as idiotic as you think. A few years ago the authorities came to my ex employer's construction site in China and did an on the spot health check on all foreigners. One of the Brits tested positive for Syphilis and was ejected from the country and lost his job. Apparently the only way that he could have got it was a moment of unprotected passion on a beach in South America many years earlier. Apparently he didn't have any symptoms. According to the CDC website "Many people infected with syphilis do not have any symptoms for years, yet remain at risk for late complications if they are not treated. Although transmission occurs from persons with sores who are in the primary or secondary stage, many of these sores are unrecognized. Thus, transmission may occur from persons who are unaware of their infection." I had to have an STD test including HIV test to get a Philippines WP a few years back so the new Thai requirements are not a big surprise to me. If you are under the impression that Syphilis has been eradicated perhaps you should get a test CS

[ubonjoe]

I can't see what the problem with having to get a blood test is.

In order to get a job in the west normally requries a full physical and they check for everything imaginable.

The last one I had took about a half a day or more.

[OldenAtwoody]

I am in a rush for my WP application. Now all of a sudden they require a syphilis test. How to get it, prferrebly without the real test...?

PM me please.

PS: I am sure not to have but I do not like the hassle for the test.

Seems to me that if you'd taken the test - instead of moaning about it here - you'd have the results (and certificate) back already.

Need someone to pee in your cup for you?

[OldenAtwoody]

Syphallis is specifically requested... But not HIV....

When was the last time you'd heard about someone contracting syphallis?

Or infecting someone?

More Thai Idiocy.

CS

No it is not idiocy. There is a valid reason for the the test.

Please understand that syphilis doesn't necessarily show symptoms at stage 1 or stage 2. By the time it is diagnosed in older patients, it can be too late. It is at epidemic rates for eastern Europe and central Asia. To make the rule work it has to be applied across the board. By having one rule for all foreigners it eliminates anyone raising allegations of discrimination.

The number of new reported syphilis cases in Germany is now 3X what it was 10 years ago. In fact, Germany is syphilis central in the EU. Kazahkstan and Uzbekistan have a major problem with syphilis. Think about it. Where do many of those foreign ladies of the night one sees in Pattaya come from?

Almost 3200 new cases were identified in Germany last year. When calculating the likelihood of actual infection, you extrapolate using a multiplier. A realistic person uses at least a factor of 10.

I bet you didn't know that the UK had a significant syphilis problem between 2004 and 2007? The numbers only came down last year after a major effort by the public health authorities in the UK. (They did a fantastic job in cutting the newly diagnosed cases from 3000+ to 1000+). How could the Thais say to someone from the EU, ok if you are from Poland but testing mandatory for Germans. The EU and especially the Germans would have a fit.

Late syphilis incidence in Russia was running at 50/100,000 people back in 1998 and had only dropped to about 38/100,000 before the Russians stopped reporting. That's seriously crazy when compared to Switzerland and the Netherlands that run at about 1/100,000.

In the EU, one could speculate about the role of recent immigrants in those numbers, but if the Thai government only imposed the rule based upon ethnic origins, people would be claiming racisim etc.

Please understand also that the test is also a requirement of other countries for Thais seeking long term visas and that the Thai approach is alot more accomodating. For example, Thais wishing to teach in Canada have to go to one of 5 approved physicians in Thailand (5 in Bangkok and 1 in ChiangMai) and have a thorough medical examination. The Canadian standards are onerous and would be considered discriminatory if you were Thai, because an Australian or UK citizen doesn't have to undergo the same exam.

I appreciate that the thread is about the requirement for a syphilis test, but I don't want the perception that this is somehow an unfair or an unwarranted requirement to persist. Having a test isn't going to hurt anyone and just might save someone's life. Once blood is drawn for the other tests it can be done at the same time with no additional inconvenience.

Nicest post I've seen in ages, well writen and concise, and well worth reading again for content.

[Arkady]

Never heard of this being required for a work permit and the information sounds wrong to me, although you never know in the friendly LOS. However, Immigration has always required more detailed medical testing for PR applicants to be done only at government hospitals, including tests for alcoholism, drug dependence, elephantitis, leprosy and syphilis. (Apart from the syphilis test which was actually performed, this in my case comprised solely the probing question,"Do you feel OK today?") When the BOI was accepting PR applicants for its investment scheme it added the requirement for an HIV test. Despite the more rigorous screening all the BOI applicants were rejected because the Bank of Thailand refused to issue the low interest bonds the applicants had to invest in. LOL

Anyway, even if syphilis testing is a new requirement for a WP, there is no cause for panic. It doesn't hurt and is inexpensive in Thailand and not a bad precaution for those who are sexually active. In the unlikely event that one should prove positive, in most cases you should be able to get it cured easily within a few weeks and then proceed with your WP application.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Arkady

[maxman71]

I am in a rush for my WP application. Now all of a sudden they require a syphilis test. How to get it, prferrebly without the real test...?

PM me please.

PS: I am sure not to have but I do not like the hassle for the test.

The most extensive exam I've had for a WP was they took my weight, pulse, blood pressure, stuck a flashlight in my ears and stuck a tongue depressor down my throat. Took all of 5 minutes and I got a signed certificate. They even had a nurse escort me around throughout the entire process. She was cute too.

[CosmicSurfer]

Syphallis is specifically requested... But not HIV....

When was the last time you'd heard about someone contracting syphallis?

Or infecting someone?

More Thai Idiocy.

CS

It might not be as idiotic as you think. A few years ago the authorities came to my ex employer's construction site in China and did an on the spot health check on all foreigners. One of the Brits tested positive for Syphilis and was ejected from the country and lost his job. Apparently the only way that he could have got it was a moment of unprotected passion on a beach in South America many years earlier. Apparently he didn't have any symptoms. According to the CDC website "Many people infected with syphilis do not have any symptoms for years, yet remain at risk for late complications if they are not treated. Although transmission occurs from persons with sores who are in the primary or secondary stage, many of these sores are unrecognized. Thus, transmission may occur from persons who are unaware of their infection." I had to have an STD test including HIV test to get a Philippines WP a few years back so the new Thai requirements are not a big surprise to me. If you are under the impression that Syphilis has been eradicated perhaps you should get a test CS

You Missed the point....

The lunacy is not in asking for a Syphilis test... It's in not requiring an HIV test at the same time.

I have had 2 long term partners here in Thailand (not counting the short-term one) and in both cases each of us had HIV exams early in our relationships. At no time had the thought of taking a syphilis test entered anyones mind, nor was it suggested by the HIV testing clinic.

When was the last time that anyone you know brought up taking a Syphilis Test, even in just discussion.. "For a Friend"?

When was the last time YOU took a syphilis test?

It's just not an issue that is thought about commonly. Where as HIV is.

I've never thought syphilis has been eradicated nor do I believe it isn't an important issue... It is, of course.

I have no problem taking (or passing) whatever Medical tests are required. They are of course necessary to protect the public well-being....

But to have an ineffectual medical certificate required, from a non-existant Medical exam, without at least including the most prevalent Sexual disease, to me is just what I said....

More Thai Idiocy.

CS

[kriswillems]

Most Western European countries do require medical checks but having a sexually transmitted disease like syphilis will and should not be a reason for refusing someone a job. As far as I know you don't need to have sex with your customers and colleagues when you're working (not taking into account one very specific exception). So, refusing someone because he/she has syphilis would be called discrimination in most Western countries. Besides that most cases of syphilis can be cured or controlled, so it will not have an influence on how you do your job.

Today I went for my medical test.

They signed the paper which states I don't have any of the mentioned diseases.

They checked: blood pressure, heartbeat, weight, height.

I saw the doctor for 1 minute.

Price: 100 Baht

The people that are very sure that they don't have syphilis or the people that are very sure they do have syphilis, shouldn't be forced to do a blood test, as it's useless. These people can go to a small clinic that doesn't have the tests in stock. Most small 30Baht medical clinics will not have the blood test. These clinic are cheap (100B or less) and they'll not do any blood test.

If you're from the west, the chance you've any of the other diseases in the list without knowing it, is almost non-existent. So, the whole medical test is pretty useless.