30 Years Ago

[Boksida]

[...]

Mobile phones were a rarity and a land line had to be ordered 4 years prior to installation.

Just a nitpicking sidenote: Since the title of the thread is "30 years ago...", mobile phones were not a rarity, they were non-existent. The first (modern) mobile phone network was the analogue NMT (Nordic Mobile Telephone) system introduced by the Nordic telecomm's authorities in 1981, i.e. 28 years ago. As far as I know (though I may be wrong here) Thailand never had an analogue mobile network, but started with a GSM digital system which made its world debut (i.e. not in Thailand) in 1991.

/ Priceless (with a background in telecomm's )

I had two different analog mobile phones in Thailand prior to my first digital one. The first was a "lunchbox" which I think operated on 475 frequency and then there were two competing analog mobile networks (TAC and AIS) which operated on 800 and 900 Mhz respectively. I had the latter and upgraded to digital whenever that became an option. I think that may have been in the early 90s.

[harrry]

If you can not handle Thai food 3 times a day every day of the year, things are better now. There were NO decent farang restaurants in Chiang Mai until David The Duke started one in 1991 which he called the America Restaurant.

You forget the Italian food at the Rincome.

And the Bannana pancakes french fries and fried eggs at all the guesthouses

And the fact that the guesthouses usually had a bookshelf of boks people were free to borrow and take and replace.

Edited May 3, 2009 by harrry

[Blinky Bill]

You forget the Italian food at the Rincome.

And the Bannana pancakes french fries and fried eggs at all the guesthouses

And the fact that the guesthouses usually had a bookshelf of boks people were free to borrow and take and replace.

A few years before my time, 30 yrs ago the Italian restaurant Babylon existed on Huay Kaew Road, opposite the Uni, it has been there ever since (is it still running?). My first meal there was in 1983, it was real good, the last meal I had there was about 5 years ago, exact the same quality and flavour. My first 3 wives always enjoyed eating there as well.

The guy who established it was Renato, he was the original Italian chef at the Rincome Hotel way, way back. The old fellah died some years ago now.

[Boksida]

The guy who established it was Renato, he was the original Italian chef at the Rincome Hotel way, way back. The old fellah died some years ago now.

His daughter and some of the old staff are doing a very good job of serving the same menu at the Arcobo Leno. Let's take one of your ex wives and daughter there next time you are in town.

[doppa]

What about Visa regs? We're there marriage and retirement visas then and was there an immigration office in Chiang Mai?

Regrad Bojo

Most interesting thread and please don`t spoil it by advertising restaurants, all old buddies together with the owners.

I believe it was 100000 baht requirement for Thai spouse visa and 150000 baht requirement for retirement visa. There was a lot of corruption in that department and demands for under the counter payments for what they called the smooth processing of a visa were common. Sometimes it took a year and half for the processing of a non immigrant visa. In many cases the next visa was due before the precious one was concluded.

Back in the early 90s, the exchange rate was 36 baht = £1. But Thai bank interest rates went as high as 13%.

Cost of living was only a quarter to what it is now. With an investment of only 1 million baht at 13% interest, one could live like a King without need to dip in to the capital.

There were many more bars in Chiang Mai and lady houses could be found in practically every village. Bar shows was a regular event before the big cover up. I can remember girls wearing see through string tee shirts, no bras, outside of the Spotlight to attract customers.

If you wanted to eat Farang style, than JJs was the in place to be, but it was expensive. A standard meal was about 400 baht, a lot of dosh 15/20 years ago.

There was no Big C, Tesco Lotus or large supermarket chains in Chiang Mai. Makros on the partly built superhighway was the main shopping centre for Farangs.

Western chocolate was hard to come by, same as many other Farang foods.

Mobile phones were a rarity and a land line had to be ordered 4 years prior to installation.

chocolate, now theres a thing, whats with cadburys chocalate here, either my gob buds have been stolen by thai faires, or cadburys have secretly formulated a no melt additive, which makes ..well not chocalate, having said that ive just devoured a bar of fruit and nut,mmmm and yummy.

[Rasseru]

The guy who established it was Renato, he was the original Italian chef at the Rincome Hotel way, way back. The old fellah died some years ago now.

His daughter and some of the old staff are doing a very good job of serving the same menu at the Arcobo Leno. Let's take one of your ex wives and daughter there next time you are in town.

His daughter tells me that her mother does most of the cooking at Arcobaleno. And it's good.

[Rasseru]

[...]

Mobile phones were a rarity and a land line had to be ordered 4 years prior to installation.

Just a nitpicking sidenote: Since the title of the thread is "30 years ago...", mobile phones were not a rarity, they were non-existent.

If I might nitpick and add a side note to your nitpicking side note, sassienie said in his post that he was talking about the early '90s.

/Rasseru (with a background in nitpicking)

[Priceless]

[...]

Mobile phones were a rarity and a land line had to be ordered 4 years prior to installation.

Just a nitpicking sidenote: Since the title of the thread is "30 years ago...", mobile phones were not a rarity, they were non-existent.

If I might nitpick and add a side note to your nitpicking side note, sassienie said in his post that he was talking about the early '90s.

/Rasseru (with a background in nitpicking)

As so often, you are quite right I hadn't noticed that sassienie was off topic, discussing 15-20 years ago instead of 30. I was probably misled by myself having first visited Thailand (and CM) 25 years ago, and knowing that there were no mobiles around then.

BTW I have now checked and found out that an analogue network came on line in Thailand in 1986, i.e. 23 years ago.

/ Priceless (with a background in apologizing for my errors)

Edited May 3, 2009 by Priceless

[tigerbalm]

What about Visa regs? We're there marriage and retirement visas then and was there an immigration office in Chiang Mai?

Regrad Bojo

Most interesting thread and please don`t spoil it by advertising restaurants, all old buddies together with the owners.

I believe it was 100000 baht requirement for Thai spouse visa and 150000 baht requirement for retirement visa. There was a lot of corruption in that department and demands for under the counter payments for what they called the smooth processing of a visa were common. Sometimes it took a year and half for the processing of a non immigrant visa. In many cases the next visa was due before the precious one was concluded.

Back in the early 90s, the exchange rate was 36 baht = £1. But Thai bank interest rates went as high as 13%.

Cost of living was only a quarter to what it is now. With an investment of only 1 million baht at 13% interest, one could live like a King without need to dip in to the capital.

There were many more bars in Chiang Mai and lady houses could be found in practically every village. Bar shows was a regular event before the big cover up. I can remember girls wearing see through string tee shirts, no bras, outside of the Spotlight to attract customers.

If you wanted to eat Farang style, than JJs was the in place to be, but it was expensive. A standard meal was about 400 baht, a lot of dosh 15/20 years ago.

There was no Big C, Tesco Lotus or large supermarket chains in Chiang Mai. Makros on the partly built superhighway was the main shopping centre for Farangs.

Western chocolate was hard to come by, same as many other Farang foods.

Mobile phones were a rarity and a land line had to be ordered 4 years prior to installation.

Most interesting is there any more you can add as to what CM o any other parts of Thailand were like all those years ago . are you going to be at the Thai visa Tuskers doo by any chance i would love to hear some of your comments and others come to that...priceless

400 Bht for as meal all those years ago amazing. it is some thing that would be classed as expensive today let alone 15/20 years ago

[Ulysses G.]

If you wanted to eat Farang style, than JJs was the in place to be, but it was expensive. A standard meal was about 400 baht, a lot of dosh 15/20 years ago.

You must have been ordering Russian caviar and French champagne. I would say more like 100-150 baht at the most and less for good Thai food.

[anonymouse]

I don't know about 30 years ago but even 15 years back was very different in any developing country, the Internet, mobile phones and cheap international phone calls didn't exist - what would all the backpackers do now without internet cafe's?

[Ulysses G.]

My opiion of JJ's at the time was: 15 baht croissants with butter and unlimited honey, second cup of coffee free, air conditioning, and free newspapers.

They still are the best croissants in town for the money (still 15 baht each). The new Da Naga restauarant has slightly better ones but they are 80 baht each!

The owner of the Croissant Cafe was Nigel Wells (if I remember correctly) and he is still around. He was at the taste testing party for Mike Hamburger's new Texas Restaurant a few months ago.

[miltonbentley]

I spoke with an American chap last month who said he had first visited in the mid 50's. He claimed that outside the city all the young women were topless and that during the logging season you could walk across the Ping on teak logs - I would like to have seen that. Apparently the Gymkhana Club was the centre of the Farang social scene.

Can anyone on here remember those days? I would love to see pics.

[delboy]

I first came to Thailand in 1981 and first came to Chiang Mai in 1985 for a holiday, and then in 1989 to settle here. Not quite the 30 years requested, but I thought my reminiscences might be interesting.

Having been used to driving through central London in the rush hour to work and back, driving in Chiang Mai was a doddle, the biggest problem was the 3 wheel bicycle taxis and the operators of these always had huge calf muscles. There was no one-way system around the moat, each side was two-way with traffic lights (that usually were not working) at each crossover point.

There was a massage parlour where the car park for the Computer Plaza now is. The current Icon building used to be a Tantraphan store which sold farang food in the supermarket. The original Tantraphan store was on Thapae road near the Bangkok Bank and, when I first arrived here, was virtually the only source of farang food that I knew of. The Tantraphan later moved to the Airport Plaza when that was built around 1991-93, later to be taken over by Robinsons.

Kad Suan Geuw and the Central Department Store opened in January 1992 and was really the place to shop in the early 90's for farang stuff. Makro on the Superhighway opened around 1993 with Tesco at Hang Dong opening in October 1997.

Applying for my first "Thai Wife" visa in 1989 was easy, financial requirement was "Tell us what you have, and we will tell you if it's enough". The visa was approved in a week. Subsequent visa extensions took much longer, as Sassienie has already stated, sometimes the application was still being considered when it was time to re-apply. Passports filled up quickly with frequent trips to Immigration.

JJs was ok for farang food which was thin on the ground until the mid 90's.

My first car was a Toyota Corolla which had to be ordered specially from Bangkok and was driven up to Chiang Mai (no car transporters in those days) after a week.

Satellite TV arrived in 1992 with the Star TV system from Hong Kong including a fledgling BBC World.

As others have said, people stared at a farang, and when I took my wife to visit friends, lots of children would come out of their houses to look at me and old people would stroke my arm, as if not believing the colour of my skin.

We had no telephone until 1995, any local calls were made from a local house that was specially fitted with a phone for use by the local people, but for international calls I had to use the phone at the Post Office at the airport, or the head Post Office.

The airport only had one check-in desk which would spring into life about 1 hour before each plane departed and upstairs there was a large observation lounge.

[Rasseru]

/ Priceless (with a background in apologizing for my errors)

Ah ha! That would explain why you do it so well!

[Rasseru]

. . . outside the city all the young women were topless and . . . during the logging season you could walk across the Ping on teak logs - I would like to have seen that.

Could you be more specific?

[Priceless]

I first came to Thailand in 1981 and first came to Chiang Mai in 1985 for a holiday, and then in 1989 to settle here. Not quite the 30 years requested, but I thought my reminiscences might be interesting.

Having been used to driving through central London in the rush hour to work and back, driving in Chiang Mai was a doddle, the biggest problem was the 3 wheel bicycle taxis and the operators of these always had huge calf muscles. There was no one-way system around the moat, each side was two-way with traffic lights (that usually were not working) at each crossover point.

There was a massage parlour where the car park for the Computer Plaza now is. The current Icon building used to be a Tantraphan store which sold farang food in the supermarket. The original Tantraphan store was on Thapae road near the Bangkok Bank and, when I first arrived here, was virtually the only source of farang food that I knew of. The Tantraphan later moved to the Airport Plaza when that was built around 1991-93, later to be taken over by Robinsons.

Kad Suan Geuw and the Central Department Store opened in January 1992 and was really the place to shop in the early 90's for farang stuff. Makro on the Superhighway opened around 1993 with Tesco at Hang Dong opening in October 1997.

Applying for my first "Thai Wife" visa in 1989 was easy, financial requirement was "Tell us what you have, and we will tell you if it's enough". The visa was approved in a week. Subsequent visa extensions took much longer, as Sassienie has already stated, sometimes the application was still being considered when it was time to re-apply. Passports filled up quickly with frequent trips to Immigration.

JJs was ok for farang food which was thin on the ground until the mid 90's.

My first car was a Toyota Corolla which had to be ordered specially from Bangkok and was driven up to Chiang Mai (no car transporters in those days) after a week.

Satellite TV arrived in 1992 with the Star TV system from Hong Kong including a fledgling BBC World.

As others have said, people stared at a farang, and when I took my wife to visit friends, lots of children would come out of their houses to look at me and old people would stroke my arm, as if not believing the colour of my skin.

We had no telephone until 1995, any local calls were made from a local house that was specially fitted with a phone for use by the local people, but for international calls I had to use the phone at the Post Office at the airport, or the head Post Office.

The airport only had one check-in desk which would spring into life about 1 hour before each plane departed and upstairs there was a large observation lounge.

Thank you for a great post

I first came to Chiang Mai to visit in 1984 (actually got married here in 1986), but I didn't come to live here until 2006. As a consequence my early memories are rather sketchy, but come to life again with posts like yours (and those of UG and Boksida and Blinky and some of the other "old hands").

/ Priceless

[Bill97]

The original Tantraphan store was on Thapae road near the Bangkok Bank and, when I first arrived here, was virtually the only source of farang food that I knew of.

Kasem Store also had farang food and one of the two decent bakeries.

I recall a friend livid about a new traffic light having been put in making total number of traffic lights in CM = 7 (don't recall the exact number but it was less than 10 approx 1986). Now that is the kind of serious shit that people got concerned about back then. It did not much matter that there were no yellow lights.

[bojo]

Some great posts out there.

Not having lived in Chiang Mai back then, let alone in Thailand, it's extreemly interesting to get an insight as to how life was.

As Milton has mentioned, some pictures would be great. I don't know if he was referring to the ladies outside the city though?!

Regards Bojo

[sassienie]

I first came to Chiang Mai in 1989.

In 1994 lived here for 1 year. At that time my wife, daughter and I could live very comfortably on 8000 baht a month up to 12000 baht according to how often I went out socialising.

That included renting an apartment, food, daughter’s school fees, social, bills, running a motorbike.

Without social and stay at home, it was possible to get by on 5000 baht per month, just.

Social: going out with friends in Chiang Mai town, meal, drinks, short time, taxis for an evening about 650 to 700 baht.

Daytime lady house we nicknamed, Housewives. Couple of beers & short time 250 to 300 baht. There was a group of us, me, Scottish Alistair, John Moore, American ginger Tom, Steve and Mike cook. Believe that had all been levelled last year.

The Spotlight was the in place to go in them days, number one bar in Chiang Mai. These days it’s just a sorry remnant of what it used to be, same as all the rest of the entertainments.

Vegas bar was great fun and we always had a good laugh there. Cheap drinks, nice girls. Short time 300 baht. Now it’s just a run down dump that smells like a public toilet. Certain it’s the same girls still working there, only now well into their 40s and they look it.

In 1989 a packet of fags was about 11 baht up to 18 baht according to brand, average taxi fare 5 baht, petrol from 8 baht per litre, local bus fare 2 baht, bowl of noodles 5 baht, Thai massage 30 baht per hour, oil massage 60 baht, bottle of coke 5 baht, can 7 baht, pizza in town at the Wild Orchid 70 baht. I could go on and go.

MacDonald’s opened about 1994 in Chiang Mai. Opposite, which is now StarBucks, was a Turkish bath house but of course all Thais staffed it.

I think the first company that began selling computers during the late 90s in Chiang Mai was the Indian owned, Media Magic. (Correct me if I’m wrong), about a year after Internet cafes began springing up in the town. Later Media Magic got a bad reputation and finished a year ago. During the mid 90s UBC appeared on the scene. Can’t remember exactly how much for the service, but it was bladdy expensive at the start. In Chiang Mai the service only provided a fraction of the channels compared with Bangkok and bilingual TVs were few and far between.

Actually some prices have not changed much since those days, such as cars, motorbikes and electrical goods.

Edited May 3, 2009 by sassienie

[Blinky Bill]

I spoke with an American chap last month who said he had first visited in the mid 50's.........

Apparently the Gymkhana Club was the centre of the Farang social scene.

Can anyone on here remember those days? I would love to see pics.

Actually Milt, the Gymkhana Club was the centre of the Farang social scene since it's establishment back in 1898. The father of Dick Wood, who passed away some years ago now was one of the founders.

111 years ago there weren't too many backpackers and even the Las Vegas bar wasn't around then (I think it was established 5 years later).

The club was formed in 1898 by teak loggers and British expatriates who at that time defined the objectives of the club as being "... the encouragement of sport in Northern Siam". At that time sports facilities included polo, horse racing, shooting, athletics, a 9 hole golf course; tennis courts; squash courts; football and cricket; and darts. It is the oldest club in Thailand and one of the oldest clubs in Asia.

[Ajarn]

My opiion of JJ's at the time was: 15 baht croissants with butter and unlimited honey, second cup of coffee free, air conditioning, and free newspapers.

They still are the best croissants in town for the money (still 15 baht each). The new Da Naga restauarant has slightly better ones but they are 80 baht each!

The owner of the Croissant Cafe was Nigel Wells (if I remember correctly) and he is still around. He was at the taste testing party for Mike Hamburger's new Texas Restaurant a few months ago.

Yes, Nigel Wells wasn't the owner, though he claimed to be, he was the manager. It was owned by a guy from Lampang.

Nigel used to carry around a pistol, which he used to threaten people. He is a crazy and dangerous man.

I recall a friend livid about a new traffic light having been put in making total number of traffic lights in CM = 7 (don't recall the exact number but it was less than 10 approx 1986). Now that is the kind of serious shit that people got concerned about back then. It did not much matter that there were no yellow lights.

The problem was, the cops couldn't control the traffic very well. It was best left to drivers to deal with the intersections themselves. In the morning on my way to work at CMU, if there was traffic, the cause was mostly the cops at the Niemenhaimen/Huay Kaew intersection.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Ajarn

[Ulysses G.]

'Ajarn' date='2009-05-04 09:12:43' post='2710710']

Yes, Nigel Wells wasn't the owner, though he claimed to be, he was the manager. It was owned by a guy from Lampang.

Nigel used to carry around a pistol, which he used to threaten people. He is a crazy and dangerous man.

He behaved well at Mike's party. Maybe he has mellowed out over the years.

Thank God he has not made Thai Visa a hobby. I don't need any more "fans" getting upset because I post about things that they are not interested in or don't agree with their point of view.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Boksida]

I spoke with an American chap last month who said he had first visited in the mid 50's. He claimed that outside the city all the young women were topless and that during the logging season you could walk across the Ping on teak logs - I would like to have seen that. Apparently the Gymkhana Club was the centre of the Farang social scene.

Can anyone on here remember those days? I would love to see pics.

I think construction on the Bhumibol Dam started in about 1958 which would have meant the end of floating logs to Bangkok. There were still huge rafts of them however in Bangkok in the 70s coming down from further south than Tak. There is a painting on the wall of the coffee shop in the Tipchang Hotel in Lampang showing bank to bank logs on the Wang.

There were still a few topless maidens around in villages in the early 70s but mostly old hags. I heard that some German guy introduced brassieres to Thailand, I hope he was soundly horse-whipped.

[harrry]

There were not so many bridges across the river and along it there were several places growing rice.

Many people used to stay at a guest house called the Je tT"Aimr and I just noticed the buildings are still there and look the same. I spoke to the lady owner who used to run it and sadly her husband the sculptor there dies a couple of years ago and now it is closed except for occassional groups.

Further along the river there was a roadside cafe famous for its KoaSoi noodles. Apparently the owner had cooked them for the KIng. It is still there but now has expanded to be more a food court although the young lady cooking Kao Soi there told me she was there at the time and hadnt changed ,she was just a bit bigger round the waist. Noodles are still good.

[idrankwhat]

Interesting Topic

How did they Live without the Mobile Phone

Same way we did...

[harrry]

Interesting Topic

How did they Live without the Mobile Phone

Same way we did...

A few of us even grew up without a TV

[iainiain101]

All before my first visit here, but very interesting.

There are some old pictures displayed in the bar at the Gykanna club, such as Huay Kaeo Road with just fields either side. Worth a look if you are interested.

I was also told that the snooker table at Gymkanna was brought to Chiang Mai from Bangkok by boat. Not sure how long ago though.

Iain

[Tyke]

I'd be interested to hear from the 'old school expatriates/visitors' as to how life was in the 70's and 80's in Thailand. Any longtermers have interesting experiences they would like to share regarding life and style, visa regs/local attitudes towards foreigners in comparison with the 21st century?

Although I didn't live here, I've been vsiting Thailand annually since 1987 (or was it 1887). To be honest, apart from the infrastructure, I can't say the Thais have changed a lot. I remember only countryside between Central and Jomtien Beach in Pattaya. I could get only about 40-50 Thai baht per pound but it seemed cheap nevertheless. The pollution in BKK seemed much worse than now. The gay bars were much more numerous in BKK and were mainly go-go. The Telephone bar was exactly the same as now and the main disco was the small Rome club in Soi 4 - DJ's came was greatly welcomed in the early '90s and was a breath of fresh air. The Malaysia Hotel was very similar to now. Otherwise nothing stands out as having changed much, but then again I walked around in a stupor most of the time and wouldn't have noticed much.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Tyke

[harrry]

I don't know if politeness has changed among business owners here but I recall trying to sell advertising to the Hill Tribe Centre on the road to the airport in about 1970. I was unsuccesful there but the lady was very insistant that my wife and I come as her guest to view the show there. We were picked up from the Rincome and endoyed the show vey much however we paid for two cokes. Next morning a car came to the Rincome with a long handwritten note of apology for charging their guest and enclosing 10 baht.