Norwegian Woman And American Woman Die Of Unknown Causes on Koh Phi Phi

[CFIT]

Not a word of update from the authorities. The silence is disconcerting.

Latest in the Norwegian newspaper VG: the Krabi police are saying that the poison who kill them was from fish or seafood. Did they eat fish or seafood?? No!!! The ortopsy must be done by another country but Thailand. If not........?

Can you provide a link please..

In the interest of keeping our known small amount of facts from getting too muddled, and to keep speculation hanging on at least thin wire of credibilty, please post links to info.

So the deaths were May 3 , 4th and just now, THREE WEEKS LATER the forensic evidence is being collected by " experts."

JHFC.

[Scott]

I would be interested to know what the death certificates say is the cause of death. I don't think either the US or Norway are likely to let it go without some kind of cause.

Maybe they will have to come up with a new cause of death: "Visit to Thailand."

[CFIT]

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=7403

Monday, May 25, 2009

Phi Phi tourist deaths possibly food poisoning

The Laleena guesthouse on Phi Phi Don Island, Krabi.

A section of a filthy canal, about 200 meters from the guesthouse, that channels sewage to a nearby treatment plant.

PHUKET CITY: The mysterious deaths of two female tourists on Phi Phi Island earlier this month were possibly caused by food poisoning, preliminary lab findings suggest.

Krabi Provincial Police Commander Maj Gen Pasin Noksakul told the Gazette today that researchers at the Police Institute of Forensic Medicine in Bangkok have found signs of microbial infection in blood samples taken from the bodies of 27-year-old Jill St Onge from the US and Norwegian Julie Bergheim, 22.

Gen Pasin said results from the Forensics Institute were preliminary and not yet official. He was unable to say whether the infectious agent or agents were viral or bacterial, but said he was told by the institute that both women’s blood contained microbes consistent with those that cause food poisoning, likely from contaminated seafood.

The two women, who stayed in adjacent rooms at the Laleena guesthouse on Phi Phi Don Island at the beginning of May, died within hours of each other at Phi Phi Island Hospital after severe vomiting.

In blood samples taken from Ms Bergheim the researchers found three different kinds of potentially harmful microbes, while blood samples from Ms St Onge had only one, he said.

Although it is not normal procedure to release results until they are official, Gen Pasin said he wanted to quell widespread speculation over the cause of the deaths on Internet blogsites and chat forums.

Such theories have included exposure to toxic gas from a nearby wastewater treatment plant, problems with the air conditioning in the guest rooms, accidental overdoses of the 4 X 100 drug cocktail that has been gaining popularity in the south over the past year and even murder by poisoning.

The Forensics Institute is continuing to study the microbes to positively identify them and test their virility, he said.

“I don’t know when the official results will be released, but the commander of the Royal Thai Police has ordered the lab work expedited because the embassies of the two deceased tourists want to know the cause of the death as soon as possible,” he said.

Gen Pasin ruled out the possibility that [methane] gas emanating from the nearby wastewater treatment plant might have been the cause, saying the plant had been in the area for a long time with no ill effects on local people or tourists.

“Had a dangerous gas spread into the guesthouse, many more people would have been affected,” he said. – Kamol Pirat

[CFIT]

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phuket-police...cs-probe-11150/

Laleena Guesthouse owner Rat Chuped: something they ate or drank

Photo by phuketwan.com

Monday, May 25, 2009 A SPECIAL forensics task force of 15 police, led by a senior officer from Phuket, was involved in taking fresh samples from the Laleena Guesthouse on Phi Phi over the weekend.

Early in May American Jill St Onge, 27, and Norwegian Julie Bergheim, 22, fell ill while occupying adjoining ground-floor rooms 4 and 5 at the guesthouse, suffered similar vomiting attacks, and died within hours of each other at the holiday island's hospital.

[ And two others were taken ill but recovered.]

Police General Nappadon Kantakanit told Phuketwan today that he assembled the latest investigation team, which included specialists from Phuket and Krabi provinces.

The return to the guesthouse for a complete forensics check came at the request of senior Royal Thai Police in Bangkok.

It is believed officials from the US and Norwegian embassies have been pressing for a resolution of the cause of death of the two young tourists as soon as possible.

''We checked the locality and the rooms where the women fell ill,'' General Nappadon said. ''We took away various spray cleaners and a vacuum cleaner, and the air-conditioning filters.''

Today [ Monday May 25th ] he called Prince of Songkla University in Haad Yai, capital of Songkla province, and arranged for laboratories there to conduct tests on all the samples from the guesthouse.

[so the Gazette article ,"food poisoning.." based on prelim info is somewhat less credible now. ]

The Governor of Krabi, Siwa Sirisaowalak, said he was not aware of the new police investigation. He has previously urged newspapers not to speculate about the cause of death, and to await the results of existing tests.

Police Lieutentant Pontanan Sangtong, who is based on Phi Phi, remains in charge of overall investigations.

At different times since the women died in early May, Public Health department officials, including epidemiologists from Bangkok, have also taken samples in and around the Laleena Guesthouse and checked the two rooms.

Bangkok laboratory tests continue on blood and tissue samples taken from the women's bodies. Samples were also taken for testing commissioned by the St Onge family in the US.

Laleena Guesthouse owner Rat Chuped believes the women died from something they ate or drank and has rejected suggestions that she should close the establishment until the cause is known.

Jill St Onge was travelling with her fiance, Ryan Kells, at the time, while Ms Bergheim was sharing her room with a younger Norwegian woman.

All four occupants of rooms 4 and 5 fell ill, but only two survived.

According to General Nappadon, the Norwegian survivor has told police of a ''bad smell'' at the time all four occupants of the rooms fell sick.

The water treatment plant nearby appeared

to not be the source, he said, because other houses and guesthouses were closer to it than the victims at Laleena.

_______________________________________

Ground floor rooms with AC , sewage smell...Psst.. Check the drains

Edited May 26, 2009 by CFIT

[Thai at Heart]

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=7403

Monday, May 25, 2009

Phi Phi tourist deaths possibly food poisoning

The Laleena guesthouse on Phi Phi Don Island, Krabi.

A section of a filthy canal, about 200 meters from the guesthouse, that channels sewage to a nearby treatment plant.

PHUKET CITY: The mysterious deaths of two female tourists on Phi Phi Island earlier this month were possibly caused by food poisoning, preliminary lab findings suggest.

Krabi Provincial Police Commander Maj Gen Pasin Noksakul told the Gazette today that researchers at the Police Institute of Forensic Medicine in Bangkok have found signs of microbial infection in blood samples taken from the bodies of 27-year-old Jill St Onge from the US and Norwegian Julie Bergheim, 22.

Gen Pasin said results from the Forensics Institute were preliminary and not yet official. He was unable to say whether the infectious agent or agents were viral or bacterial, but said he was told by the institute that both women’s blood contained microbes consistent with those that cause food poisoning, likely from contaminated seafood.

The two women, who stayed in adjacent rooms at the Laleena guesthouse on Phi Phi Don Island at the beginning of May, died within hours of each other at Phi Phi Island Hospital after severe vomiting.

In blood samples taken from Ms Bergheim the researchers found three different kinds of potentially harmful microbes, while blood samples from Ms St Onge had only one, he said.

Although it is not normal procedure to release results until they are official, Gen Pasin said he wanted to quell widespread speculation over the cause of the deaths on Internet blogsites and chat forums.

Such theories have included exposure to toxic gas from a nearby wastewater treatment plant, problems with the air conditioning in the guest rooms, accidental overdoses of the 4 X 100 drug cocktail that has been gaining popularity in the south over the past year and even murder by poisoning.

The Forensics Institute is continuing to study the microbes to positively identify them and test their virility, he said.

“I don’t know when the official results will be released, but the commander of the Royal Thai Police has ordered the lab work expedited because the embassies of the two deceased tourists want to know the cause of the death as soon as possible,” he said.

Gen Pasin ruled out the possibility that [methane] gas emanating from the nearby wastewater treatment plant might have been the cause, saying the plant had been in the area for a long time with no ill effects on local people or tourists.

“Had a dangerous gas spread into the guesthouse, many more people would have been affected,” he said. – Kamol Pirat

Well very fortunate that the restaurant in question only had a few customers then. Where is Gil Grissom when you need him?

3 weeks after the event and they manage to diagnose fatal food poisoning as a preliminary finding. I won't bother to start trying to wonder why there weren't more cases of this supposedly fatal food poisoning on the island. Obviously, these people knew each other so well they shared a couple of dodgy oysters together.

[CFIT]

When people eat spoiled food , they get diarrhea and if they have it long enough or are in bad health to begin with, maybe they die from dehydration and complications thereof - BUT NOT within 12 hours.

Diarrhea is not a symptom in these 4 cases of illness, only relentless vomiting.

A allergic reaction to food, especially seafood could cause just vomiting , but in four separate individuals?

And the man in Phuket who died on the way to the hospital, vomiting? What happened with him?

Could /would the Gazette ASK SOME QUESTIONS about these inconsistencies instead of just parroting the official line. How about The Nation or Bangkok Post, the two English- language papers?

Is there not one investigative reporter in Thailand to uncover the cause of deaths?

Edited May 26, 2009 by CFIT

[pmcd8243]

Pufferfish, called pakpao, are also consumed in Thailand, usually by mistake, at times these fish are eaten because they are cheaper to buy, and there is little awareness or monitoring of the situation. Patients are regularly hospitalized or die as there are no specific preparations to remove the toxin before eating.

Puffer's (tetrodotoxin) poisoning will cause deadening of the tongue and lips, dizziness, and vomiting. These are followed by numbness and prickling over the body, rapid heart rate, decreased blood pressure, and muscle paralysis. Death results from suffocation as diaphragm muscles are paralyzed.

[faranginbkk]

"When people eat spoiled food , they get diarrhea and if they have it long enough or are in bad health to begin with, maybe they die from dehydration and complications thereof - BUT NOT within 12 hours"

Yes, I agree.

Pufferfish, called pakpao, are also consumed in Thailand, usually by mistake, at times these fish are eaten because they are cheaper to buy, and there is little awareness or monitoring of the situation. Patients are regularly hospitalized or die as there are no specific preparations to remove the toxin before eating.

They did not eat fish, see previous posts.

Another source of poisoning must be found.

[brahmburgers]

PHUKET CITY: The mysterious deaths of two female tourists on Phi Phi Island earlier this month were possibly caused by food poisoning, preliminary lab findings suggest.

Krabi Provincial Police Commander Maj Gen Pasin Noksakul told the Gazette today that researchers at the Police Institute of Forensic Medicine in Bangkok have found signs of microbial infection in blood samples taken from the bodies of 27-year-old Jill St Onge from the US and Norwegian Julie Bergheim, 22.

Gen Pasin said results from the Forensics Institute were preliminary and not yet official. He was unable to say whether the infectious agent or agents were viral or bacterial, but said he was told by the institute that both women’s blood contained microbes consistent with those that cause food poisoning, likely from contaminated seafood. The two women, who stayed in adjacent rooms at the Laleena guesthouse on Phi Phi Don Island at the beginning of May, died within hours of each other at Phi Phi Island Hospital after severe vomiting. In blood samples taken from Ms Bergheim the researchers found three different kinds of potentially harmful microbes, while blood samples from Ms St Onge had only one, he said.

I wouldn't doubt we all have 'potentially harmful microbes' in our blood and within our guts. Our immune systems work mightily, day and night, to try and keep such microbes from flaring up. If one or more flare up, it's most likely fever would set in, and/or diarrhea (neither are symptoms in these cases). The commonality of repeated vomiting does not seem to fit with the 'harmful microbes' theory, but does fit with the speculation, by some on this forum, that chemical poison was part of the equation.

[Town35]

I'd like to summarize things that I have read in this forum that seem to me to stand up well logically:

FOOD POISONING -s and +s

(+) Food poisoning is not a rare event in Thailand.

(-) no reported fever.

(-) very short amount of time between the initial symptoms to death which is not consistent with bacteria and other microbes.

(-) survivors seem to have recovered quickly.

(-) hard to explain why an outbreak of food poisoning was contained only to 2 unrelated traveling couples that shared the same

bungalow.

GAS -s and +s

(+) Could possible be confined to a particular room or building.

(+) Some gasses are known to cause vomiting (i.e. vomiting agents).

(+) Could explain why one of victims who was not in the room as long did not become as sick.

(+) Many people have stated that there are certain activities combined with improper plumbing that can result in dangerous fumes.

(+) Report of strange smell.

(-) A seemingly very rare event. (but this is Thailand)

(-) Occupants nearby did not complain of illness.

(?) Some feel that the report of gastritis means that the poison was ingested, not inhaled.

CHEMICAL +s and -s

(+) Consistent with rapid deterioration in health.

(+) Vomiting but not diarrhea.

(+) Some contributors feel that the gastritis findings were consistent with ingestion of a toxic substance.

(+) Thailand has that reputation for being a place where chemicals end up inside people, intentionally or otherwise.

(-) And again, why all 4 in that bungalow but nobody else? How would their water/food, and only their water/food get tainted?

I thought that a little wrap up would help to focus things. It's put together roughly and quickly (gotta log off) so probably needs some inputs, corrections. This case just seems frustrating. This whole case practically screams "case closed" yet no word. The PI actually saw an increase in tourism lately. Regards -- Town

[balo]

This is the latest news from Norway.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=553794

The autopsy of Julie Michelle Bergheim (22) and the american Jill St. Onge (27) shows that foodpoisoning is the most likely cause of the death.

Researchers at the police forensic institute in Bangkok have found traces of microbial infection in the blood samples taken from the two deceased women. Noksakul says he do not know if it's a virus or a bacterium, but the microbes is similar to the ones that causes foodpoisoning. He also said that it most likely is the seafood that has caused it.

In the blood samples of Bergheim they found three different types of harmful microbes, while the samples of St Onge had only one type.

The results of the autopsy are not yet official, but the police in Krabi want to go out with the preliminary data in order to avoid further speculation about causes of death. It is still uncertain when the full report will be available.

- I do not know when the official results will be released, but the top officials in the police department have asked them to speed up the laboratory work since the embassies of the deceased want to know the cause of the death as soon as possible, " Noksakul told Phuket Gazette.

The two women lived in the same guesthouse when they were acutely ill. Both women had similar symptoms, and vomited several times before they died. Bergeim and St Onge did not know each other, and they had not eaten the same type of food before they became ill.

There have been several theories about why the women died. One theory is that the women had inhaled a dangerous gas in the room, another that they were very dehydrated, after having vomited because of a foodpoisoning.

According to Noksakul it is not possible that dangerous gas from the local water treatment plant is the reason for the deaths.

- If the gas had entered the guest house more people would have been affected too, "he said.

Nevertheless, the police investigator Nappadon Kantakanit have launched a new investigation in the rooms where the two women stayed. He has gathered specialists from Phuket and Krabi to look for new information.

The new investigation has been launched under orders from top officials in Bangkok.

- We have checked the area around the rooms where the women were sick. We have collected samples from cleaning , a vacuum cleaner and air-conditioning filters, Nappadon told the newspaper Phuket Wan.

Samples will be sent to a laboratory at a university in Haad Yai.

[Jimjim]

So the seafood they didn't eat killed them? Did either of them eat any seafood?

[Johpa]

The commonality of repeated vomiting does not seem to fit with the 'harmful microbes' theory, but does fit with the speculation, by some on this forum, that chemical poison was part of the equation.

I was once laid out flat with food poisoning. I had a very high fever, I was hallucinating (my first thoughts were that someone had given me some electric kool-aid), and I am not 100% certain that I would have survived without the combined assistance of a nurse and a former Vietnam vet combat medic. The direction of my particular distress was not in the upward direction and I had to literally crawl on all fours to the commode. In a hot and humid environment such as on Koh Phi Phi, the rapid dehydration I experienced would haved become an immediate health issue. So I do know with certainty that food poisoning, a generic term for a host of more particular afflictions, can be deadly. The odd thing was that there was one other person in the larger group who had eaten from a common dining room who had slightly less severe symptoms, and a few others who had mild symptoms. The majority of the people had no symptoms.

[jfchandler]

I would think food poisoning as the cause of deaths in this case would be highly unlikely...

The two women were in separate parties. There has been no particular disclosed indication they ate together or even ate in the same place(s). But even if they did, they surely they would not have been the only ones to have eaten the same seriously contaminated food. And others eating in the same place(s) also would have come down seriously sick. But, there have been no reports of other unrelated people (outside the two couples), Thai or farang, falling seriously sick at the same time in the same area.

To suggest that two women staying in differerent groups died from food poisoning within the same 24-48 hour period.... but no one else suffered similar symptoms.... strains believability. What would the odds be for that kind of situation occurring? I can't even begin to count that high.

They may have had some bacterial issue from ingesting local food. And others might have also, presumably not so serious as to cause broader health alarm. But to suggest that local eating was enough to kill them, but no one else around the same area, is silly.

[PoorSucker]

Maybe the owner thought it was a good idea to refill the water bottles with tap water.

[JR Texas]

I would think food poisoning as the cause of deaths in this case would be highly unlikely...

The two women were in separate parties. There has been no particular disclosed indication they ate together or even ate in the same place(s). But even if they did, they surely they would not have been the only ones to have eaten the same seriously contaminated food. And others eating in the same place(s) also would have come down seriously sick. But, there have been no reports of other unrelated people (outside the two couples), Thai or farang, falling seriously sick at the same time in the same area.

To suggest that two women staying in differerent groups died from food poisoning within the same 24-48 hour period.... but no one else suffered similar symptoms.... strains believability. What would the odds be for that kind of situation occurring? I can't even begin to count that high.

They may have had some bacterial issue from ingesting local food. And others might have also, presumably not so serious as to cause broader health alarm. But to suggest that local eating was enough to kill them, but no one else around the same area, is silly.

Totally agree......and when you consider that five other foreigners died mysteriously in the same region within a short time period, it is unlikely that food poisoning was the cause.

[CFIT]

Maybe the owner thought it was a good idea to refill the water bottles with tap water.

Yes this is the common denominator ALL 4 both may have ingested in the room guest water whatever made them sick.

But the smell , that seems so pertinent, however with the current low pressure, my drains smell pretty bad right now.

I've been trying to back track , Does Kells say "chemical" or "sewage" smell in initial reports.

And not knowing whether the " Microbial " [ strange choice of term..] is bacteria or viral.., HUH?

The following hints at mistranslation by non- native English speaker...

"Researchers at the police forensic institute in Bangkok have found traces of microbial infection in the blood samples taken from the two deceased women. Noksakul says he do not know if it's a virus or a bacterium,..."

But knows it's food poisoning? What a load !!!

And then they go BACK to Laleeda to take samples from the vacuum cleaner and A/C filter according to PhuketWan,.

Apparently Phuket Wan missed the message which was

" Quick! Look over there..Food poisoning "

FOI (Our Info)

http://www.extension.org/faq/39686

Microbial is referring to a microscopic organism; commonly taken to mean a germ. The majority of microbes do not cause disease and in fact are beneficial organisms providing food sources for other organisms, decomposing waste, etc. Some microbes are used as pesticides, for example Bacillus thuringiensis is a microbe used as an insecticide.

Edited May 28, 2009 by CFIT

[CFIT]

This is the latest news from Norway.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=553794

The autopsy of Julie Michelle Bergheim (22) and the american Jill St. Onge (27) shows that foodpoisoning is the most likely cause of the death.

Researchers at the police forensic institute in Bangkok have found traces of microbial infection in the blood samples taken from the two deceased women. Noksakul says he do not know if it's a virus or a bacterium, but the microbes is similar to the ones that causes foodpoisoning. He also said that it most likely is the seafood that has caused it.

In the blood samples of Bergheim they found three different types of harmful microbes, while the samples of St Onge had only one type.

The results of the autopsy are not yet official, but the police in Krabi want to go out with the preliminary data in order to avoid further speculation about causes of death. It is still uncertain when the full report will be available.

- I do not know when the official results will be released, but the top officials in the police department have asked them to speed up the laboratory work since the embassies of the deceased want to know the cause of the death as soon as possible, " Noksakul told Phuket Gazette.

The two women lived in the same guesthouse when they were acutely ill. Both women had similar symptoms, and vomited several times before they died. Bergeim and St Onge did not know each other, and they had not eaten the same type of food before they became ill.

There have been several theories about why the women died. One theory is that the women had inhaled a dangerous gas in the room, another that they were very dehydrated, after having vomited because of a foodpoisoning.

According to Noksakul it is not possible that dangerous gas from the local water treatment plant is the reason for the deaths.

- If the gas had entered the guest house more people would have been affected too, "he said.

Nevertheless, the police investigator Nappadon Kantakanit have launched a new investigation in the rooms where the two women stayed. He has gathered specialists from Phuket and Krabi to look for new information.

The new investigation has been launched under orders from top officials in Bangkok.

- We have checked the area around the rooms where the women were sick. We have collected samples from cleaning , a vacuum cleaner and air-conditioning filters, Nappadon told the newspaper Phuket Wan.

Samples will be sent to a laboratory at a university in Haad Yai.

This is either mistranslated or blatant dis information using known info; Yes, Bergheim died of complications from dehydration- because she was vomiting.

K Nappadon links the known fact ( vomiting) with conjecture ( food poisoning)

And dismissing possible gasses, sewage theories without even considering it..Some gases may lay close to the ground, the wind currents, etc., etc., etc.

My condolences to the families and friends, these deaths will not ever be explained- at least beyond doubt, Thai authorities are simply incapable and/or unwilling .

Someone should start a private ex-pat /tourist coroner service

[Johpa]

But to suggest that local eating was enough to kill them, but no one else around the same area, is silly.

Again, my personal experience from food poisoning occurred on a kibbutz in Israel where a few hundred people ate from a commonly prepared meal eating in a common dining room. Two of us had significant symptoms, several more had minor symptoms, and the vast majority of people had no symptoms at all. Rest assured that I was not laughing at the silliness of the situation at the time.

[brahmburgers]

Maybe the owner thought it was a good idea to refill the water bottles with tap water.

....the owner or the maid, or someone else that services those units.

I would re-phrase your sentence to theorize, "Maybe someone at the g.h. thought it was a good idea to refill water bottles - with water tainted with a toxic chemical - possibly insecticide."

I feel very strongly that people involved with Laleena g.h. (the owner/manager and/or maid, etc) know some important things that they're not telling. Investigators will be grossly remiss if they don't intensely interview those people. This tragedy is way more important than worrying about whether anyone might lose face via intense questioning. Silly Thai restrictions on asking tough questions need to put by the wayside for this investigation to proceed. Thus far, indications are that investigators are not doing a good enough job. If they can't do the job properly, get some people who can. The governor who oversees Phi Phi (is it Krabi or Phuket province?) should grab the bull by the horns and assert his authority to get a proper job done.

[Town35]

Hello -- here is a link to a CDC website that lists that fatality rates for food poisonings. And these are stats from the general population, which includes the sick, infants, and elderly. If 2 people died from an outbreak then you would expect thousands of other people to also have become sick. Food poisoning as a cause just doesn't fit very well. So, we have a food-poisoning outbreak, which rarely involves fatalities unless it involves a large population of affected people, confines itself to one building while killing unusually quickly 50% of the people that became ill, who all almost certainly did not eat the same food? Doesn't work out for me. Unless there actually was a huge outbreak of poisoning about this time and since nobody else died their story was not heard. I have heard no reports though anywhere that something bad was going around the island very near the time of these 2 deaths.

<http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/Vol5no5/mead.htm>

Regards -- Town

[Johpa]

....If 2 people died from an outbreak then you would expect thousands of other people to also have become sick. Food poisoning as a cause just doesn't fit very well. ....

Over a decade ago several people died from E Coli, one of many specific causes of food poisoning, after eating at a national fast food chain. There were a few fatalities and a few dozen got ill. The only number in the thousands were the people who ate at the same chain and did not get ill.

[teetersb]

I was just looking at CNN news, online, and there was an article about the 2 womens death and "100% lung congestion". I'm not sure how to post the article here, so maybe one of the mods, like Sriracha can link it for details.

[sriracha john]

Although I'm not a mod, here it is:

Thailand tourist's lung tissue 'gone' after mysterious death

SEATTLE, Washington (CNN / 1 hour ago) -- A pathologist hired by the family of one of two women whose mysterious deaths in Thailand drew worldwide attention says her "lungs were 100 percent congested," Jill St. Onge's fiancee and brother said.

"He said her lung tissue was gone," said her brother, Robert St. Onge.

The pathologist has not determined what caused her lungs to fail, he said, and a final report on her May 2 death may still be weeks away.

But members of St. Onge's family said they feel the pathologist's findings, though preliminary, are enough to contradict public statements made by Thai investigators that St. Onge was the victim of food poisoning.

"I am 99.9 percent sure she did not die of food poisoning," said Ryan Kells, St. Onge's fiancee, who was with her when she died. "She suffocated to death. I am not a doctor, but I know when someone can't breath."

Kells and St. Onge, both artists from Seattle, were on a three-month vacation through Southeast Asia when they arrived on Thailand's Phi Phi Island.

They had gotten engaged while on the trip and were keeping friends and family up to date with their adventures.

Don't Miss

"Having a blast," Jill St. Onge, 27, wrote about the surroundings in a blog dedicated to the couple's travels. "Food, drink, sun and warm waters ... what else do ya need?"

The couple's vacation ended tragically when Kells found his fiancee in their hotel room vomiting and unable to breath. He rushed her to a hospital where she died.

St. Onge was healthy and there was no obvious explanation for her sudden death, her brother said.

Just hours after St. Onge fell ill, Julie Bergheim, a Norwegian tourist who was staying in a room next to St. Onge's at the Laleena Guesthouse, came down with similar symptoms. She also died.

According to Thai media reports, police there are focusing on food poisoning as the cause of the women's deaths. Monday the Phuket Gazette quoted a police commander as saying blood samples from both women indicated possible food poisoning from seafood.

Still, the commander said, those results were only preliminary. "I don't know when the official results will be released," Maj. Gen. Pasin Nokasul told the newspaper. "The lab work [is being] expedited because the embassies of the two tourists want to know the cause of death as soon as possible."

Kells response to Nokasul's statement was harsh.

"That she died of food poisoning is a ridiculous statement to make," he said, adding it is unlikely they would have been "the only ones affected."

Dr. William Hurley, medical director for the Washington Poison Center, is also skeptical that food poisoning could have been responsible. In food poisoning cases, he said, "usually what kills you is the dehydration, not the toxin."

He added, "Food poisoning is not something that typically kills someone this quickly. It takes days."

Ingestion of a variety of chemicals could have caused Onge and Bergheim's sudden deaths, Hurley said, and could be consistent with the condition of Onge's lungs. But without further information, he said, it is impossible to say what killed the two women.

Kells said he thinks something in the hotel where they were where staying made Jill sick. He remembers a "chemical smell" in the room and thinks he avoided becoming ill because he spent less time in the room.

On Saturday, the Phuket Wan newspaper reported that investigators that visited the Laleena Guesthouse, taking samples and removing filters from the air conditioning units in the rooms where both victims had stayed.

Rat Chuped, the owner of the hotel, told the newspaper her property was not to blame. "There is no problem with my guesthouse," she said.

- CNN / 1 hour ago

[sriracha john]

Hello -- here is a link to a CDC website that lists that fatality rates for food poisonings. And these are stats from the general population, which includes the sick, infants, and elderly. If 2 people died from an outbreak then you would expect thousands of other people to also have become sick. Food poisoning as a cause just doesn't fit very well. So, we have a food-poisoning outbreak, which rarely involves fatalities unless it involves a large population of affected people, confines itself to one building while killing unusually quickly 50% of the people that became ill, who all almost certainly did not eat the same food? Doesn't work out for me. Unless there actually was a huge outbreak of poisoning about this time and since nobody else died their story was not heard. I have heard no reports though anywhere that something bad was going around the island very near the time of these 2 deaths.

<http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/Vol5no5/mead.htm>

Regards -- Town

Thank you for setting the medical information straighter, although given Phi Phi's population, one might not expect thousands to become similarly ill, at least dozens would. People that consume the same contaminated food would all get sick to varying degrees and that while not everyone would die from the ailment, they would generally still be symptomatic.

The latest information from American medical sources examining the tissue and their serious doubts over food poisoning as the cause may hopefully refocus on other possibilities.

[CFIT]

Phuket Wan reports;

[ And the smell reported by Kells is "chemical ", not "sewage" as erroneously stated by Los Altos, Ca , USA article ]

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phi-death...ngestion-11168/

<h1 class="title">Phi Phi Deaths Riddle 'Linked to Lung Congestion'</h1> By Alan Morison

Saturday, May 30, 2009 New Clue in Laleena Guesthouse Mystery

A PATHOLOGIST has found that the lungs of one of the tourists who died in mysterious circumstances on Phi Phi earlier this month were ''one hundred percent congested,'' CNN is reporting.

Such a finding would be consistent with investigators returning to the Laleena Guesthouse, as they did last Saturday, to take additional samples from chemicals and the air-conditioning u

Another team of investigators also took chemical samples from Laleena immediately after the deaths of American Jill St Onge, 27, and Norwegian Julie Bergheim, 22.

The tourists fell ill in adjoining ground-floor Rooms 4 and 5 at the guesthouse and died within hours of each other at the local hospital on the weekend of May 2 and May 3.

Members of St Onge's family are quoted by CNN as saying they feel the pathologist's findings, though preliminary, are enough to contradict public statements made by Thai investigators that St Onge was the victim of food poisoning.

Although some police have told a local newspaper that they believe the cause of the deaths is food poisoning, more than one theory is being pursued by separate teams of investigators.

The samples taken during last Saturday's return to Laleena by 18 officers, led by Phuket Police General Nappadon Kantakanit, are now being examined in a laboratory at Prince of Songkla University in Haad Yai.

St. Onge's fiancee, Ryan Kells, who was with her when she died, told CNN: ''I am 99.9 percent sure she did not die of food poisoning.

''She suffocated to death. I am not a doctor, but I know when someone can't breathe.''

[ This is the first I've heard of this symptom..]

Kells and a younger Norwegian woman travelling with Ms Bergheim also fell ill, but recovered.

Blood and tissue samples were provided to members of St Onge's family by pathologists who carried out an autopsy on St Onge in Bangkok before her body was cremated.

As well as the lab tests being undertaken in Haad Yai, toxicology tests are now being carried out in Bangkok and the US, where St Onge's brother Robert told CNN a pathologist hired by the family ''said her lung tissue was gone.''

The maid who discovered the Norwegian women seriously ill in their room has given her account of what transpired to Phuketwan while Ryan Kell's detailed account has been recorded in an online blog.

Kells and Miss St Onge were on a long adventure through South-East Asia, during which he asked her to marry him.

He has also told Phuketwan that local authorities seemed keen to have him leave the holiday island with his fiancee's body as fast as possible after her death.

The American couple shifted to Laleena from another establishment on Phi Phi on May 2 and fell ill that evening.

Ryan Kells said he noticed a ''chemical smell'' on entering their room.

The Norwegians had been staying at Laleena for several days, usually slept late and were observed enjoying the island's nightlife.

Toxicology can take weeks for a conclusion and authorities have warned a definitive cause for the deaths may still be several weeks away.

Police General Nappadon told Phuketwan: '''We checked the locality and the rooms where the women fell ill. 'We took away various spray cleaners and a vacuum cleaner, and the air-conditioning filters.''

Phi Phi, about 90 minutes by ferry from the larger holiday island of Phuket, continues to attract normal numbers of tourists.

[Burr]

From CNN,

Thailand tourist's lung tissue 'gone'

A pathologist hired by the family of one of two women whose mysterious deaths in Thailand drew worldwide attention said her "lungs were 100 percent congested," deepening the mystery over the death. full story

Right now

[CFIT]

Although I'm not a mod, here it is:

Thailand tourist's lung tissue 'gone' after mysterious death

SEATTLE, Washington (CNN / 1 hour ago) -- A pathologist hired by the family of one of two women whose mysterious deaths in Thailand drew worldwide attention says her "lungs were 100 percent congested," Jill St. Onge's fiancee and brother said.

- CNN / 1 hour ago

Link, please?

BINGO !

So it would seem the Phuket Gazette ( "... 'Food poisoning...,' say officials.." ) is a F'ing property rag that is incapable of reporting ANYTHING but the official proganda.

DISGUSTING

I will NEVER purchase another copy.

[Burr]

http://edition.cnn.com/

Inter edition

Edited May 30, 2009 by Burr

[sriracha john]

Although I'm not a mod, here it is:

Thailand tourist's lung tissue 'gone' after mysterious death

SEATTLE, Washington (CNN / 1 hour ago) -- A pathologist hired by the family of one of two women whose mysterious deaths in Thailand drew worldwide attention says her "lungs were 100 percent congested," Jill St. Onge's fiancee and brother said.

- CNN / 1 hour ago

Link, please?

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/...tion=cnn_latest