Visitors Down By A Half

[MJP]

There does seem to be stupid decisions by thais,of raising prices and thinking thats ok.

I asked this once. "Hawve tou pai stavff."

See, responsibility and caring towards one's employee's. You certainly won't find that in the West!

[deprogrammed]

It would be nice to get some first-hand accounts from expats (and Thais) who own businesses in Thailand that are in some way related to tourism......are they being affected by the downturn? Are they closing shop? Expanding? Moving to the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc., or staying? Laying off workers? Hiring workers?

My airport hotel in Phuket was 100% full last night (OK, we only have 10 rooms...). We also had to take 3 further walk-in guests to other hotels (and collect the commission!).

This low season seems to be ok for us

Simon

Simon........you are no doubt rich.......and you no doubt talk with other hotel owners.

Rich 10 room guest house

[Ricardo]

I was thinking the same thing. I also thought it was directed at ME? A fellow Texan?

Never old chap. Turned out nice again! (Raises small cup of tea from saucer)

OMG, something in the air seems to be turning Texans into Limeys, no wonder the tourists are avoiding the country !

[MJP]

I was thinking the same thing. I also thought it was directed at ME? A fellow Texan?

Never old chap. Turned out nice again! (Raises small cup of tea from saucer)

OMG, something in the air seems to be turning Texans into Limeys, no wonder the tourists are avoiding the country !

Why are we referred to as 'Limeys?'

Now I understand the convicts calling as 'Whinging Pom's', it's an obvious one, needs to be for those chaps, they never quite get the subtle or the cryptic.

But 'Limeys?'

[chiangmaibruce]

This is fantastic news for those of us here in Thailand. The soaring tourists numbers for the last two decades have done nothing for us or the Thais. We can only hope the traffic and environmental and social degradation caused by rampant tourism will continue to ease.

1. The article does not mention the basis for saying that tourism has dropped by half. As far as I am aware the official stats for March 09 are not available yet, and the decrease in Jan and Feb was substantial but less than 25%. I suspect someone has just pulled a figure out of the air (probably to strengthen their case for a govt hand-out)

2. The view expressed in the quote above is an inaccurate one that is put forward by people in many countries to disparage the tourism industry. Often this is accompanied by the notion that the benefits all get taken out of the country because of foreign ownership of hotels, etc. Such views have been comprehensively rebuffed in those countries that have completed comprehensive economic studies looking at the cost/benefits of tourism.

The economic benefits of tourism are substantial and are multiplied and flow widely through the host community. Even where there is substantial involvement by foreign companies, the lion's share of the economic benefits remain in the host country.

As for the argument about degradation caused by rampant tourism. Name me any industry that does not cause some degree of degradation or negative impacts in the absence of proper planning and management by the government (or ANY planning and management). Go on .... any industry .... or perhaps you are of the "lets all go back and live in caves" school of thought? Don't rubbish the industry, rubbish the government who are not doing their job.

Edited May 14, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[Maigo6]

Why are we referred to as 'Limeys?'

Sour facial expressions ?

[Maigo6]

Yabaaa and Simon have responded in a very positive manner,

Simon is turning people away and yabaaa has all 5 condos rented out, maybe it's not as bad as some people would lead us to believe.

Thailand will always get Tourists, it will never dry up.

If Thailand could be controlled by a tap, and that tap turned off the flow of women and sunshine, then Thailands flow of tourists would be severely cut, but until then, Thailand will fare a lot better than other countries semi reliant upon the tourist dollar.

I mean, the weather in Europe isn't gonna change overnight is it, UK will still be cold and damp and miserable in the winter, just like it has always been, Scandanavian countries will also be cold, so countries like Thailand will always attract tourists.

Add to that the other attractions that are available in Thailand, it's always gonna be a winner, this downturn in tourism is a global thing, I would guess that Thailand will fare a lot better than others in the tourism industry.

Why do so many people from the UK come to Thailand, Scandanavians and Russians too ?

Cos they freeze their nuts off in their own countries 6 months of the year........and there is a hosepipe ban for the other 6 months.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Maigo6

[MJP]

Why are we referred to as 'Limeys?'

Sour facial expressions ?

Oh lime! As in those vile awful green fruits you ludicrously squeeze into a glass of Pimm's only to temporarily blind one's self with a squirt of questionable trajectory.

[wileycoyote]

I can't see any change over the summer.

Perhaps deeper depression in Western Europe...

[hhgz]

"The classic example is the tax increase on Beer at a time when the hospitality industry is already on it's knees."

That's right - we know that all tourists Google the price of beer worldwide, and then travel to the country where the price of beer is the lowest.

[phutoie2]

Why are we referred to as 'Limeys?'

Sour facial expressions ?

Oh lime! As in those vile awful green fruits you ludicrously squeeze into a glass of Pimm's only to temporarily blind one's self with a squirt of questionable trajectory.

Read up on some Royal Navy history.

[MJP]

Why are we referred to as 'Limeys?'

Sour facial expressions ?

Oh lime! As in those vile awful green fruits you ludicrously squeeze into a glass of Pimm's only to temporarily blind one's self with a squirt of questionable trajectory.

Read up on some Royal Navy history.

Isn't that the 'son of a bit_ch' phrase. Something about some bit of old wood they'd tie some press ganged sailor to and beat seven bails of £$%^ out of him, all for drinking some of his own urine?

[bkkjames]

Found these stats for Q1 arrivals...

First quarter travel dives

Category: News

Arrivals at Bangkok airport during the first quarter dropped, although travel from the Middle East continued to climb.

Tourist arrivals for the first quarter of 2009 were down 20.84% according to the Office of Tourism Development’s latest report.

Based on international tourist arrivals at Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi Airport, January to March 2009, the Middle East market was the only one to show a growth.

Overall, the country welcomed 2,453,748 visitors compared with 3,099,662 during the same period, last year.

By nationality, the top 10 source markets were: Japan; UK; China; US; Germany; Korea; India; France; Australia and Russia. They all reported declines. Japan dropped 32.11%, from 342,115 to 232,247. UK was down 15.76% from 209,679 to 176,629. China dropped 31.54% from 250,583 to 171,539. The US was down 18.37%, from 171,046 to 139,631 while Germany was down 11.45%, from 154,899 to 137,158.

By region, the Middle East was the only one that showed an increase; plus 12.95% from 99,741 to 112,659 visits. Within that region, the United of Arabs Emirates was up 44.15% from 13,435 to 19,367 and Kuwait was up 41.22% from 5,214 to 7,363.

Asia fell 30.51% from 1,369,690 to 951,864. South Asia dropped 3.64% from 155,892 to 150,210. Europe dropped 14.57% from 1,074,747 to 918,189. North and South Americas fell 18.73% from 234,964 to 190,965. Oceania was down 20.92% from 140,599 to 111,191. Africa dropped 22.30% from 24,029 to 18,670.

In the first quarter, January recorded a 19.69% decline, 25.69% in February and 16.94% in March. There were 831,560 visitors in March down from 1,001,172 last year.

Arrivals through Suvarnabhumi Airport represent about 80% of all the inbound trips to Thailand

[JR Texas]

Yabaaa and Simon have responded in a very positive manner,

Simon is turning people away and yabaaa has all 5 condos rented out, maybe it's not as bad as some people would lead us to believe.

Thailand will always get Tourists, it will never dry up.

If Thailand could be controlled by a tap, and that tap turned off the flow of women and sunshine, then Thailands flow of tourists would be severely cut, but until then, Thailand will fare a lot better than other countries semi reliant upon the tourist dollar.

I mean, the weather in Europe isn't gonna change overnight is it, UK will still be cold and damp and miserable in the winter, just like it has always been, Scandanavian countries will also be cold, so countries like Thailand will always attract tourists.

Add to that the other attractions that are available in Thailand, it's always gonna be a winner, this downturn in tourism is a global thing, I would guess that Thailand will fare a lot better than others in the tourism industry.

Why do so many people from the UK come to Thailand, Scandanavians and Russians too ?

Cos they freeze their nuts off in their own countries 6 months of the year........and there is a hosepipe ban for the other 6 months.

It does not surprise me that some people are still doing OK and a bit of evidence of that has been presented here (e.g., Simon's place in Phuket). With every downturn, opportunities to make money surface.

I think you are discounting the fact that an increasing number of tourists are traveling to alternative destinations: Cambodia, Lao, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia Philippines. They too have hot and humid weather most of the year.

Thailand, for many reasons that have already been posted many times, is actively destroying its tourism industry. The people who make the rules may not know or understand this, but that is what they are doing.

Other countries in the region have capitalized on Thailand's misguided policies; they are welcoming tourists and long stay expats with their visa rules, and they give the appearance of being safe and stable (Thailand is projecting something different to the world).

Will things get better? Sure. But if fundamental changes to Thailand's approach to tourism and expats in general--including visa policies, hotel prices, real estate rules, foreign investment rules for small scale businesses--do not occur, Thailand will go through another downturn after any short term recovery.

My guess is that Thailand will continue to pretend that their current problems are only related to a decline in the global economy and some disruptions at the airport a while back. Those with the power to effect change will never admit to making mistakes.

That mindset will solve nothing.

[duchovny]

Thailand will always get Tourists, it will never dry up.

I mean, the weather in Europe isn't gonna change overnight is it, UK will still be cold and damp and miserable in the winter, just like it has always been, Scandanavian countries will also be cold, so countries like Thailand will always attract tourists.

Why do so many people from the UK come to Thailand, Scandanavians and Russians too ?

Cos they freeze their nuts off in their own countries 6 months of the year........and there is a hosepipe ban for the other 6 months.

The problem for Thailand is that once people discover the other nearby countries, such as Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam and Indonesia, which they will because they'll be sick of being jerked around in Thailand, those tourists probably wont come back. They'll make one of the nearby countries their new

holiday destination of choice.

Thailand does not have a mortgage on sunshine and pretty girls.

[Maigo6]

The problem for Thailand is that once people discover the other nearby countries, such as Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam and Indonesia, which they will because they'll be sick of being jerked around in Thailand, those tourists probably wont come back. They'll make one of the nearby countries their new

holiday destination of choice.

Thailand does not have a mortgage on sunshine and pretty girls.

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

[duchovny]

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

I go to SE Asia a few times a year or more.

I have always started in BKK for a few days and then taken off to where-ever.

My next trip is planned for next month. I will be starting in Phnom Penh for a few days. I prefer it.

I probably wont even bother with Thailand this time.

It's strange how 2 out of 2 guesthouse owners have come here and stated they are full (albeit only 15 rooms between them) and then there's this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Crisis-hit-H...le-t265130.html

[alant]

i guess a lot of us have set down roots so we dont want to up sticks but the evidence is pretty in your face that the thai government, (well not just this 1), believes it and it alone knows best and all information that does not eminate from official channels does not apply.

limey and poms eh, chip on the shoulder about the late great mother country

[MJP]

i guess a lot of us have set down roots so we dont want to up sticks but the evidence is pretty in your face that the thai government, (well not just this 1), believes it and it alone knows best and all information that does not eminate from official channels does not apply.

limey and poms eh, chip on the shoulder about the late great mother country

I love that!

[midas]

The problem for Thailand is that once people discover the other nearby countries, such as Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam and Indonesia, which they will because they'll be sick of being jerked around in Thailand, those tourists probably wont come back. They'll make one of the nearby countries their new

holiday destination of choice.

Thailand does not have a mortgage on sunshine and pretty girls.

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

These other countries are very viable alternatives to Thailand

I live in Thailand with apartment full of stuff. At one time I did seriously consider

relocating to Phnom Penh but because of all the hassle associated with moving

something would have to make me do so. Such as a lot of violence breaking out in Bangkok.

Vietnam is another strong possibility. It's a beautiful country and has just as much\to offer

as Thailand.

But what you're forgetting you and I live here and there is a vast difference between us

that would have to move possessions compared to those that

travel with only a suit case in search of new destinations and experiences, new cuisine.

The availability of Cambodia, Vietnam and even Laos wasn't even there -

10 - 15 years ago. I think Thailand tourism is like air leaking from a tyre........

Edited May 14, 2009 by midas

[Maigo6]

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

I go to SE Asia a few times a year or more.

I have always started in BKK for a few days and then taken off to where-ever.

My next trip is planned for next month. I will be starting in Phnom Penh for a few days. I prefer it.

I probably wont even bother with Thailand this time.

It's strange how 2 out of 2 guesthouse owners have come here and stated they are full (albeit only 15 rooms between them) and then there's this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Crisis-hit-H...le-t265130.html

LOL.... I know what you mean, I guess if I had rental properties or a Guest House/Hotel I would paint a rosy picture too. ( Not saying they are wrong, they are probably right )

Just as estate agents say they are really busy and the market is bouyant, as Bar owners say their Bar makes loads of money ( even though they have been trying to sell for 1 or 2 years )

Some people I know are struggling, I know guys in Pattaya who have been trying to sell their houses for a long time, and still no interest, even with regular discounting, one guy I know actually admits he will take a loss if he sells, he just wants out. Many will never want to suffer a loss and will never tell anybody about it.

Many will never admit to losing, but with the world economy as it is, it's certainly a buyers market, and sellers will be hard pushed to get their asking price. Yet on internet forums, things are different I guess.

Same as the amount of guys here that met their wives in overseas universities where they were studying for masters degrees..... The fact that that University Graduate was suddenly attracted to a guy 30 years older is neither here nor there.

Then they complain about helping out her family! Do they actually realise how much it costs to get an MBA in a US university for an overseas student ?

I can assure them the family are certainly not in need of handouts from farang truck drivers if they can afford to send their daughter to an overseas uni to gain an MBA.

Internet forums are great.....

Edited May 14, 2009 by Maigo6

[MJP]

The problem for Thailand is that once people discover the other nearby countries, such as Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam and Indonesia, which they will because they'll be sick of being jerked around in Thailand, those tourists probably wont come back. They'll make one of the nearby countries their new

holiday destination of choice.

Thailand does not have a mortgage on sunshine and pretty girls.

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

These other countries are very viable alternatives to Thailand

I live in Thailand with apartment full of stuff. At one time I did seriously consider

relocating to Phnom Penh but because of all the hassle associated with moving

something would have to make me do so. Such as a lot of violence breaking out in Bangkok.

Vietnam is another strong possibility. It's a beautiful country and has just as much\to offer

as Thailand.

But what you're forgetting you and I live here and there is a vast difference between us

that would have to move possessions compared to those that

travel with only a suit case in search of new destinations and experiences, new cuisine.

The availability of Cambodia, Vietnam and even Laos wasn't even there -

10 - 15 years ago. I think Thailand tourism is like air leaking from a tyre........

Do you live upcountry, Midas? (Oh, Hi by the way, not conversed in a long while you and me)

[bkkjames]

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

I go to SE Asia a few times a year or more.

I have always started in BKK for a few days and then taken off to where-ever.

My next trip is planned for next month. I will be starting in Phnom Penh for a few days. I prefer it.

I probably wont even bother with Thailand this time.

It's strange how 2 out of 2 guesthouse owners have come here and stated they are full (albeit only 15 rooms between them) and then there's this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Crisis-hit-H...le-t265130.html

LOL.... I know what you mean, I guess if I had rental properties or a Guest House/Hotel I would paint a rosy picture too. ( Not saying they are wrong, they are probably right )

Just as estate agents say they are really busy and the market is bouyant, as Bar owners say their Bar makes loads of money ( even though they have been trying to sell for 1 or 2 years )

Some people I know are struggling, I know guys in Pattaya who have been trying to sell their houses for a long time, and still no interest, even with regular discounting, one guy I know actually admits he will take a loss if he sells, he just wants out. Many will never want to suffer a loss and will never tell anybody about it.

Many will never admit to losing, but with the world economy as it is, it's certainly a buyers market, and sellers will be hard pushed to get their asking price. Yet on internet forums, things are different I guess.

Same as the amount of guys here that met their wives in overseas universities where they were studying for masters degrees..... The fact that that University Graduate was suddenly attracted to a guy 30 years older is neither here nor there.

Internet forums are great.....

all pretty well on the spot there go6 except for the Uni Gal point. I met mine here. She 22 at the time, me 30+++

[jumnien]

All this talk about Thailand scaring away tourists is a joke. Check out the arrivals decade by decade and you will the surge.

[MJP]

All this talk about Thailand scaring away tourists is a joke. Check out the arrivals decade by decade and you will the surge.

I'm afraid Issan's no.1 produce export keeps 'em coming.

[bkkjames]

All this talk about Thailand scaring away tourists is a joke. Check out the arrivals decade by decade and you will the surge.

Jum: while those stats may be true, they can easily be countered with similar ones pertaining to number of hotels available now and so on.

20 years ago or so, the Dusit Thani was the tallest building in Bangkok's CBD. Now look at this place.

Suffice to say the supply has greatly outpaced the demand.

Typical business mentality in this part of the world.

Shop A opens up a salon - so instead of finding a business to compliment this situation and find additional reasons to attract even more business to the area, Shop B, C, and D open up exactly the same thing and they all sit around wondering why they have such little business.

[jumnien]

All this talk about Thailand scaring away tourists is a joke. Check out the arrivals decade by decade and you will the surge.

Jum: while those stats may be true, they can easily be countered with similar ones pertaining to number of hotels available now and so on.

20 years ago or so, the Dusit Thani was the tallest building in Bangkok's CBD. Now look at this place.

Suffice to say the supply has greatly outpaced the demand.

Typical business mentality in this part of the world.

Shop A opens up a salon - so instead of finding a business to compliment this situation and find additional reasons to attract even more business to the area, Shop B, C, and D open up exactly the same thing and they all sit around wondering why they have such little business.

Yes, it's a shame they encouraged more tourists to come, but thank God we've had a bit of good luck regarding politics and the world economy that is slowing the trend of more lousy Westerners littering this beautiful land.

[simon43]

It's strange how 2 out of 2 guesthouse owners have come here and stated they are full (albeit only 15 rooms between them) and then there's this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Crisis-hit-H...le-t265130.html

As with any business, just because you have the money to buy/establish the business does not mean that it will automatically be a success. I have friends in Phuket who own guesthouses and they are suffering a serious downturn in business. The reason (to me at least), is clear. They do not know their business sector! They sit and wait for guests to walk in and wonder why no-one shows up. I actively (and continually) seek out new booking agents. I write the software code to allow guests to pay online by credit-card, I 'tweak' the webpage code to ensure a high Google ranking etc etc blah blah blah! (It's dam_n hard work!).

If you do not understand your market, (customers, suppliers etc), then when the market takes a dive, so will your business...

Simon

and no, I am far from rich! But I'm happy

Edited May 14, 2009 by simon43

[bkkjames]

All this talk about Thailand scaring away tourists is a joke. Check out the arrivals decade by decade and you will the surge.

Jum: while those stats may be true, they can easily be countered with similar ones pertaining to number of hotels available now and so on.

20 years ago or so, the Dusit Thani was the tallest building in Bangkok's CBD. Now look at this place.

Suffice to say the supply has greatly outpaced the demand.

Typical business mentality in this part of the world.

Shop A opens up a salon - so instead of finding a business to compliment this situation and find additional reasons to attract even more business to the area, Shop B, C, and D open up exactly the same thing and they all sit around wondering why they have such little business.

Yes, it's a shame they encouraged more tourists to come, but thank God we've had a bit of good luck regarding politics and the world economy that is slowing the trend of more lousy Westerners littering this beautiful land.

what are you on about? the biggest litterers I have seen in all my time here are the locals... don't believe me, stand outside a 711 or similar and watch how many guys throw their garbage on the road when a garbage can is 2 meters away.

[jumnien]

All this talk about Thailand scaring away tourists is a joke. Check out the arrivals decade by decade and you will the surge.

Jum: while those stats may be true, they can easily be countered with similar ones pertaining to number of hotels available now and so on.

20 years ago or so, the Dusit Thani was the tallest building in Bangkok's CBD. Now look at this place.

Suffice to say the supply has greatly outpaced the demand.

Typical business mentality in this part of the world.

Shop A opens up a salon - so instead of finding a business to compliment this situation and find additional reasons to attract even more business to the area, Shop B, C, and D open up exactly the same thing and they all sit around wondering why they have such little business.

Yes, it's a shame they encouraged more tourists to come, but thank God we've had a bit of good luck regarding politics and the world economy that is slowing the trend of more lousy Westerners littering this beautiful land.

what are you on about? the biggest litterers I have seen in all my time here are the locals... don't believe me, stand outside a 711 or similar and watch how many guys throw their garbage on the road when a garbage can is 2 meters away.

Jimbo,

Surely, there is a grain of truth in your words. Yet, do you really want more tourists clogging the streets? How many tourists do you need to enjoy the day? Personally, I enjoy Thailand, the Thai folks and a handful of friendly farang. Other than that, the fewer arrivals, the more idyllic.