Getting Screwed!

[AlbinoAsian]

I currently find myself in a rather tiring and tough situation.

At the end of last year I decided to sign a contract to work at ECC full-time. I understood that the payrate was far from good, but I was happy to accept that because teaching private classes / small classes takes a whole let less energy than teaching at primary or secondary school. I have really enjoyed teaching there and have some great students... during the initial time they sent me to two external schools. I worked at a primary school for 3 hours a week, and a high school for 4 hours a week. ECC payed me an extra 30-40 baht per hour on top of my hourly wage, but ECC received 200-300 baht extra from the schools for doing basically nothing. Ok that I can handle... A business is a business.

What I can't handle is what has now happened this term, I'm working the same 2 schools except 15 hours a week at the primary school, another 7 at the high school. Then goto ECC for another 10 hours over the weekend. I'm only one week into the term but already feel like a wreck. I once did 38 hours a week for two weeks in private classes at ECC, but didn't feel anywhere as tired as I feel now. I have a degree (The major was TESOL actually), both the schools I work at have asked me to leave ECC and come and work for them directly (they would risk a huge fine from ECC if they did scalp me).

To break it down, I currently work at the primary school 15 hours a week... then have to go and do another 15 hours between a high school and ECC to earn the same that I would get for working directly with that primary school for 15 hours. I feel totally and utter screwed... I didn't expect to be working so many hours externally from ECC in order that ECC makes a killing, whie I have physical / mental / emotional breakdown. When I signed the contract I did hear something about doing the occasional class at a workplace or another school, but they never said anything about the whole week!

I love to teach, and when I teach I give it my absolute all. I get up and sing, shout and dance. I'm just that kind of teacher. Its the only way I know how to teach.

But with the amount of hours I'm doing at the schools. I'm left with nothing... and I'm worried that soon I'll break. I Would love to hear any suggestions or ideas of what I should do. I know that contracts don't mean much in Thailand. However I am a man of my word, and would like to continue teaching at ECC part-time in the future when I have a "real full-time job", so I'm not looking to quit necessarily. Though I am sure I won't be renewing the contract with them. Even if they paid me 40000 a month. I'd rather get 35000 at the primary school for just 60 hours a month rather than 120.

Thanks,

one very tired teacher

Edited May 21, 2009 by AlbinoAsian

[DragonQuest]

Dude your getting screwed BIG TIME, Leave ECC ASAP as soon as you get your paycheck, bail out on them. Dont even give them a notice or your address. They are screwing you bigtime, I was in a similar situation. Im doing 19 hours a week and around 20 teaching hours a week is all I can handle. Get a FULL-Time Job hel_l I'll even reccomend schools to you. Never work for an agency too, I wish you the best of luck mate.

[AlbinoAsian]

Dude your getting screwed BIG TIME, Leave ECC ASAP as soon as you get your paycheck, bail out on them. Dont even give them a notice or your address. They are screwing you bigtime, I was in a similar situation. Im doing 19 hours a week and around 20 teaching hours a week is all I can handle. Get a FULL-Time Job hel_l I'll even reccomend schools to you. Never work for an agency too, I wish you the best of luck mate.

thanks mate... they have my address already. They haven't issued me a work permit I still have the papers. but I did just get a new visa last month, its a non-im "B" which I obtained using a letter from them. I shouldn't have to pay for the work permit for early cancellation as they haven't issued me one. However would the visa be cancelled? I'm of the understanding the visa would only be cancelled in the case of it being tied to a work permit. I would like to know what would be the consequence for cancelling the contract... even if I did it the correct way and gave them notice.

I do like teaching at schools, and would teach at either of the ones I currently teach at, but I can't do both for such a terrible hourly rate.

Edited May 21, 2009 by AlbinoAsian

[garro]

There are people out there making good money and experiencing excellent work conditions through teaching English in Thailand. I only earn 30,000 THB a month despite having a PGCE and working in Thailand seven years, and I once went through the same shit as you are now with the same agency. Some people have the balls to demand to be treated with respect and they get it. Maybe we should follow their example. In this world you only end up with what you accept.

[mmcsusnret]

Since you are technically working illegally, without a work permit, ECC kind of has you over a barrel, and they know it. If you walk, they will invalidate your non-B visa obtained with their papers. Also, most of the contracts like ECC has, have a clause that states that you will not offer or accept employment from any school, company or individual. This clause could cause you grief but probably not too much of a problem for the other school. It just depends on how much ECC wants to push the issue. Obviously, they are not going to be able to do much to a government school, but they can pick on you.

I suggest that you try to negotiate with them for either more money or fewer hours, stating the stress that the excess hours are causing may cause your performance to suffer, and that their few hours before compared with too many hours now are too much for you to cope with. If they don't care and you decide to walk, walk to another locale and start fresh but don't let anybody know where you are going, and don't list them as a reference, and act as if you've never heard of them. If you are in central Thailand go north or south. If you're in the south head north, and so on. I doubt that ECC will make much of an effort to find you or blacklist you given their questionable practices in the past. You can almost always get another visa.

As above poster stated (in so many words), they can only take advantage of you as long as you accept it These agency/schools take advantage of people as much as they can because they know many people are willing to do anything to be able to be able to stay in Thailand, and if a highly qualified teacher bails on them there are more than enough unqualified or marginally qualified people who will take anything that they can get. The agency/school earns the same amount of money regardless.

Good luck

Edited May 21, 2009 by mmcsusnret

[AlbinoAsian]

Since you are technically working illegally, without a work permit, ECC kind of has you over a barrel, and they know it. If you walk, they will invalidate your non-B visa obtained with their papers. Also, most of the contracts like ECC has, have a clause that states that you will not offer or accept employment from any school, company or individual. This clause could cause you grief but probably not too much of a problem for the other school. It just depends on how much ECC wants to push the issue. Obviously, they are not going to be able to do much to a government school, but they can pick on you.

I suggest that you try to negotiate with them for either more money or fewer hours, stating the stress that the excess hours are causing may cause your performance to suffer, and that their few hours before compared with too many hours now are too much for you to cope with. If they don't care and you decide to walk, walk to another locale and start fresh but don't let anybody know where you are going, and don't list them as a reference, and act as if you've never heard of them. If you are in central Thailand go north or south. If you're in the south head north, and so on. I doubt that ECC will make much of an effort to find you or blacklist you given their questionable practices in the past. You can almost always get another visa.

As above poster stated (in so many words), they can only take advantage of you as long as you accept it These agency/schools take advantage of people as much as they can because they know many people are willing to do anything to be able to be able to stay in Thailand, and if a highly qualified teacher bails on them there are more than enough unqualified or marginally qualified people who will take anything that they can get. The agency/school earns the same amount of money regardless.

Good luck

Thanks very much for your thought through response.

I think that what my first cause of action will be is to write a letter to the manager of my branch manager, this way if they don't understand what I mean, the can check with the head office.

Like you said they won't like if it I just leave them, and they could cause me problems. I accept that I may have to see out the year, but I want them to understand I won't be trodden all over. If I have a breakdown I won't be much good to them.

Thanks again

[mmcsusnret]

I know what you meant when you said that you're a man of your word and that you will try to abide by your contract, but you should not do so if it will damage your health (mental or physical). Do you think that if they could find someone to replace you for a couple of thousand baht less that they would care about firing you? I don't think so. They could cause you some grief, but probably aren't going to try to track you down if you relocate. When you write make if simple and formal and offer to speak to them in person, if they wish. Spring for a translation from a good low cost translation service. Keep copies. Mail it EMS with a return receipt, and that will show that you made the attempt to do the right thing. You may want to avoid a face-to-face in the begining to avoid possibly causing them embarrasment, and them regarding this "confrontation" as a loss of face for them, in which case they'll probably just fire you on the spot.

[AlbinoAsian]

I know what you meant when you said that you're a man of your word and that you will try to abide by your contract, but you should not do so if it will damage your health (mental or physical). Do you think that if they could find someone to replace you for a couple of thousand baht less that they would care about firing you? I don't think so. They could cause you some grief, but probably aren't going to try to track you down if you relocate. When you write make if simple and formal and offer to speak to them in person, if they wish. Spring for a translation from a good low cost translation service. Keep copies. Mail it EMS with a return receipt, and that will show that you made the attempt to do the right thing. You may want to avoid a face-to-face in the begining to avoid possibly causing them embarrasment, and them regarding this "confrontation" as a loss of face for them, in which case they'll probably just fire you on the spot.

Hey mate, thanks

would it be ok for me to send you a draft of the letter to see if it uses to complicated language?

[DragonQuest]

Dude your letter is going to collect dust in their office! Do you think they really care about you? I dont think so. You wont be able to finish your 30+ hour work week and you'll be burnt out before you know it. Id run fast and would run as soon as you see that pay check comming. Stay away from ECC and agencies. All they care about is MONEY, they could care less about you lol

[AlbinoAsian]

Dude your letter is going to collect dust in their office! Do you think they really care about you? I dont think so. You wont be able to finish your 30+ hour work week and you'll be burnt out before you know it. Id run fast and would run as soon as you see that pay check comming. Stay away from ECC and agencies. All they care about is MONEY, they could care less about you lol

you are 100% right about that they care about the money...

I will however give the letter a go, I will hand it to the branch manager in person.

The letter requests changes to my current timetable all which I am contractually obliged to such as a WHOLE day off.

So if nothing does happen from there, I will be forced to take other measures.

[thaicbr]

End of the month just leave. ECC are leaches all ways have been, all ways will be if you give them any idea that you might be unhappy and thinking of leaving they WILL withhold your salary so BEWARE. Then see if you can work at both schools 15hrs in one and 15 in the other. 30,000 from each one. one work permit will cover it as long as they both agree. Or if you ain't such a greedy bugger choose the one you like best. Do not reply to any mail from ECC and change your phone number. Easy

Edited May 21, 2009 by thaicbr

[Phatcharanan]

I don't understand the OP.

First he/she says they took a contract with ECC because he/she does not have the energy to teach Primary/Secondary.................and then towards the end of the OP states that he/she "I get up and sing, shout and dance. I'm just that kind of teacher".

Oh dear.

[markg]

AlbinoAsian.

You say you have a degree with a major in TESOL and that you are a hard working 'all singing/all dancing' teacher.

Man - what you working the language school treadmill for?!

With your qualifications, experience and zest for teaching, you should be able to walk into a much more respectable job.

You're just a number to ECC and the like, so dont feel too bad doing a runner. Give them a week's notice if you really have to. Which part of the country are you in?

There will be loads of schools crying out for teachers with the qualities you say you have.

[mmcsusnret]

I would reccommend using the mail as I stated earlier, if you are dealing with a Thai branch manager, to avoid a possibly embarassing confrontaion which will immediately put them on the defensive and less likely to be willing to negotiate. Many (most?) Thai people try to avoid direct confrontation of a problem especially if it involves making a decision.

I would be glad to look at your letter, though I am sure that you can keep it simple, another set of eyes may be useful. Keep the language simple and straight forward and to the point. Do not use ambiguous terms (or big words like ambiguous). Just state the problem and propose a solution or two or three, to show that you are flexible and willing to compromise. The only problem there is you put the decision back to them. PM me if you want me to see the draft.

Good luck.

[AlbinoAsian]

I don't understand the OP.

First he/she says they took a contract with ECC because he/she does not have the energy to teach Primary/Secondary.................and then towards the end of the OP states that he/she "I get up and sing, shout and dance. I'm just that kind of teacher".

Oh dear.

oh sorry I didn't mean that I don't have the energy to teach Primary / Secondar school. I do ... I love it... and I can do 20+ hours of that kind of teaching no problems, but I can't do what ECC have me doing now. I did make the mistake of going with ECC in the beginning thats for sure, I'll have to admit to that mistake as I didn't know better at the time. Now I do.

[DragonQuest]

DO NOT GIVE THEM A WARNING THAT YOUR LEAVING, THEY WILL WITHOLD YOUR PAY AND WILL NOT PAY YOU, I HAD A FRIEND DO THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES AND THE SCHOOL DIDNT PAY HIM. DONT GIVE THEM THE LETTER JUST TAKE YOUR PAY AND LEAVE, TRUST ME ON THIS. IF YOU DO GIVE THEM THE WARNING, YOU WILL GET SCREWED SO HARD BABY.

Edited May 22, 2009 by DragonQuest

[Firelily]

Am I totally on the wrong track if I suggest you provoke them into firing you? I don't know what your contract says, mine with a school stipulates that if I stay away for three consecutive days without an explanation, my contract is terminated. Don't know if simply not showing up for a week (after getting your salary!) would do the trick for you.

[Scott]

I would suggest you find alternative employment out of the area. Preferably something that you don't have to start immediately. Then leave the country, return on a tourist visa and start over.

[beano2274]

At a school you will have to be there at 0800 and leave at 1700, total of 9 hours per day, okay most of these are not teaching, which is okay.

Tell ECC that you are working too much and want to have weekends free or have one of those days off, if you love the teaching.

Which Branch are you working for?

Don't kill yourself for ECC or any language center, I used to do the 40 hours a week teaching then 16 hours at a language center in the Mall Ngamwongwan, never again, I needed my weekends free so I left.

Do yourself a favour speak to them or just get out, plenty of jobs around. The contract states you are not allowed to work for a school that they have a contract with.

Try Horwang Ladprao, just walk in and ask if they want a teacher, most times they will bite your hand off.

[james24]

Ive worked for ECC, which branch is it?? Phuket perhaps???

[MJo]

I'm not in the trade but may i suggest that you read your contract with them ? I mean what are the minimum hours required and what is your notice period for termination stated in the contract itself ? If you want to be man of your words do it as per the contract terms. Or did you sign a "open check" to them ?

Also sounds bit stange that 30 hours a week is too much ? I myself and pretty much everyone in my trade work average 60 hours a week without too many problems. And it is intensive work that i could think would be the same as teaching english to teenagers. Seriously, how it is so draining to teach ? Not trying to talk you down, just interested.

[AlbinoAsian]

thanks for the replies everyone.

I think I was mostly burnt out with the fact of having to work every single day of the week, and having to travel so much to get between the 3 locations plus home. I wrote them a letter asking to have one day off a week (which is already in my contract) and that I'd like to work the minimum 25 hours (I'm contracted for that many) while I'm having to work between the 3 places, and I'm happy to do 30 hours again once they can limit me to two locations.

I didn't want to leave, I know I'm not getting paid the greatest where I am, but I'll stick out the year and then see what happens next year.

Sorry if I sounded unproffesional by complaining, think alot of things were getting to me, but it seems that the polite letter has done the trick and will enable me to manage my time better, especially for other important things like family.

Once again thanks and sorry if I didn't reply to everyone's questions

Edited May 24, 2009 by AlbinoAsian

[AlbinoAsian]

I'm not in the trade but may i suggest that you read your contract with them ? I mean what are the minimum hours required and what is your notice period for termination stated in the contract itself ? If you want to be man of your words do it as per the contract terms. Or did you sign a "open check" to them ?

Also sounds bit stange that 30 hours a week is too much ? I myself and pretty much everyone in my trade work average 60 hours a week without too many problems. And it is intensive work that i could think would be the same as teaching english to teenagers. Seriously, how it is so draining to teach ? Not trying to talk you down, just interested.

yes I admit 30 hours doesn't sound like much, and that may be because I haven't learnt the skills of how to conserve energy when teaching (I'm still relatively new to the trade). Normally its not all that tiring if you get a break to recharge, but the way they've got me teaching I don't feel like I have a moment to stop and regain my thoughts. I've still got alot to learn. I'm sure no matter how tired I feel, there are many people more tired than me, so I've stopped feeling sorry for my self at the moment =)

[MJo]

I'm not in the trade but may i suggest that you read your contract with them ? I mean what are the minimum hours required and what is your notice period for termination stated in the contract itself ? If you want to be man of your words do it as per the contract terms. Or did you sign a "open check" to them ?

Also sounds bit stange that 30 hours a week is too much ? I myself and pretty much everyone in my trade work average 60 hours a week without too many problems. And it is intensive work that i could think would be the same as teaching english to teenagers. Seriously, how it is so draining to teach ? Not trying to talk you down, just interested.

yes I admit 30 hours doesn't sound like much, and that may be because I haven't learnt the skills of how to conserve energy when teaching (I'm still relatively new to the trade). Normally its not all that tiring if you get a break to recharge, but the way they've got me teaching I don't feel like I have a moment to stop and regain my thoughts. I've still got alot to learn. I'm sure no matter how tired I feel, there are many people more tired than me, so I've stopped feeling sorry for my self at the moment =)

Well glad you got it worked out with the agency. In any case no use to burn yourself up. It's only a job as they say

[jasreeve18]

DO NOT GIVE THEM A WARNING THAT YOUR LEAVING, THEY WILL WITHOLD YOUR PAY AND WILL NOT PAY YOU, I HAD A FRIEND DO THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES AND THE SCHOOL DIDNT PAY HIM. DONT GIVE THEM THE LETTER JUST TAKE YOUR PAY AND LEAVE, TRUST ME ON THIS. IF YOU DO GIVE THEM THE WARNING, YOU WILL GET SCREWED SO HARD BABY.

Agreed. Then follow Scott's advice - easy. (Particularly if you want to see the salary you worked for.)[if people / companies treat you with respect then you should do likewise, if not...]

[Murf]

Concur: Do not tell them you are leaving, just leave. Unless you don't want your wage.

There are PLENTY more agencies out there...