Thai Cultur Course / Bachelor In Education

[007]

I've worked in Thailand for the past six years. My BA in English plus my TESOL were until now enough to work in Thailand. Having changed jobs, my new boss told me that I need to do that Thai Culture course plus sign up for an undergraduate course in Education. Is that really necessary? I don't really have the time, and both courses together amount to 1.5 salaries.

[garro]

Apparently the rules are not being enforced evenly throughout Thailand. I do know that one of our teachers, with a Masters degree, has just been declined a teacher's licence until she gets an education degree or passes the four exams (which apparently are almost impossible to pass first time). Yet , you still hear about people on this forum who are apparently having no trouble getting a teacher's licence without even a degree. Who knows.

Edited June 1, 2009 by garro

[PeaceBlondie]

The culture course is almost cheap and painless. Ask your school for a TL waiver from TCT.

[garro]

The culture course is almost cheap and painless. Ask your school for a TL waiver from TCT.

Yes PB, the culture course is cheap and easy, but it is meeting the other requirements where other people seem to be having a problem. Our school has been told that along with the culture course and a degree that you need to have either a degree in Education, a PGCE, or have passed the Thai education exams. We have been told by the TC that the waiver is good for a maximum of two years, but our local immigration department (Ayutthya) wants the actual 5 year licence now and not the waiver.

Things might be different elsewhere.

Edited June 1, 2009 by garro

[007]

Yes PB, the culture course is cheap and easy, but it is meeting the other requirements where other people seem to be having a problem. Our school has been told that along with the culture course and a degree that you need to have either a degree in Education, a PGCE, or have passed the Thai education exams. We have been told by the TC that the waiver is good for a maximum of two years, Things might be

So, do I need the Thai Culture Course certificate for the work permit/TL, if I have no intention ever doing the Education degree course? BTW, I'm in Bangkok.

Edited June 2, 2009 by 7

[CWMcMurray]

So is this an immigration requirement or a WP requirement?

It seems really odd if it is an immigration issue???

You would think that the purpose of a teacher's liscense would be to ensure that teachers are qualified(not saying treacher's license in its present form does this) before issuing a work permit to teach.

It doesn'y make any sense if the reality is you don't need a teachers license to teach you only need it extend your visa??? Does this mean if you are a teacher that qualifies for an alternative visa you will never need a teachers license?

[garro]

So is this an immigration requirement or a WP requirement?

It seems really odd if it is an immigration issue???

You would think that the purpose of a teacher's liscense would be to ensure that teachers are qualified(not saying treacher's license in its present form does this) before issuing a work permit to teach.

It doesn'y make any sense if the reality is you don't need a teachers license to teach you only need it extend your visa??? Does this mean if you are a teacher that qualifies for an alternative visa you will never need a teachers license?

It seems to be only teachers who work in primary/secondary education who need a teacher's license. Immigration requires paperwork to process a visa extension and request a teacher's license for those of us working at that level or (at least last year) a waiver from the TTC.

[CWMcMurray]

So TL is only required by Immigration, not Labor Department?

[007]

It seems to be only teachers who work in primary/secondary education who need a teacher's license. Immigration requires paperwork to process a visa extension and request a teacher's license for those of us working at that level or (at least last year) a waiver from the TTC.

And for the TTC's waiver you qualify how? By doing the culture course??

[garro]

It seems to be only teachers who work in primary/secondary education who need a teacher's license. Immigration requires paperwork to process a visa extension and request a teacher's license for those of us working at that level or (at least last year) a waiver from the TTC.

And for the TTC's waiver you qualify how? By doing the culture course??

If you have the required qualifications and the culture course then you don't need the waiver. I needed the waiver last year, because I had yet to do the culture course. Apparently the waiver was introduced last year to give teachers until 2010 to get the required qualifications or pass the Thai exams and do the culture course. At least this is what we have been told.

[007]

If you have the required qualifications and the culture course then you don't need the waiver.

Required qualification is what - any bachelor, or the B in Ed??

Edited June 2, 2009 by 7

[garro]

If you have the required qualifications and the culture course then you don't need the waiver.

Required qualification is what - any bachelor, or the B in Ed??

That depends. The official answer is a degree or Post-Graduate Certificate in education. These seem an unrealistically high expectation given the pay.

Some schools seem to have more influence with the TTC or immigration department. You still hear about people on these forums working with far lower qualifications. I can only speak for my school, but they now only want people with education degrees; this probably explains why I'm the only native speaker working there.

[Ijustwannateach]

They never can seem to get the system to actually work - mainly because there's so much money involved, for a few people who otherwise might have none: raise foot: shoot. Hit head on wall. Repeat until very slow neurons register pain and EP programs are full of Filipinos (and how is it that they're getting a pass on all of this? Probably because they're cheaper).

Even if real conditions on the ground don't mean most teachers need to worry, these kinds of stories will continue to keep most of the sane and professional away from here for years.

[garro]

They never can seem to get the system to actually work - mainly because there's so much money involved, for a few people who otherwise might have none: raise foot: shoot. Hit head on wall. Repeat until very slow neurons register pain and EP programs are full of Filipinos (and how is it that they're getting a pass on all of this? Probably because they're cheaper).

Even if real conditions on the ground don't mean most teachers need to worry, these kinds of stories will continue to keep most of the sane and professional away from here for years.

One thing that surprises me is that at our school many of the non-natives speakers, such as Filipinos, receive almost the same wage packet as I do. The parents want native speakers, but the school administration wants the highest qualifications. The non-native speakers are good at what they do, but I really do think that we could do with more native speakers; especially as they are paying the same money. Maybe it is really to do with the fact the Filipinos have a reputation for being more reliable and for fitting in better with the Thai staff.

[culicine]

One thing that surprises me is that at our school many of the non-natives speakers, such as Filipinos, receive almost the same wage packet as I do. The parents want native speakers, but the school administration wants the highest qualifications. The non-native speakers are good at what they do, but I really do think that we could do with more native speakers; especially as they are paying the same money. Maybe it is really to do with the fact the Filipinos have a reputation for being more reliable and for fitting in better with the Thai staff.

We have many non-native so called qualified BEd's here. One wonders about what they learned in their education courses when they haven't even heard of Benjamin Bloom! Their teaching and classroom management can leave a lot to be desired also. Sure bring em on, but schools can at least get good ones!

[Phatcharanan]

One wonders about what they learned in their education courses when they haven't even heard of Benjamin Bloom!

Who's she then?

[CWMcMurray]

So is this an immigration requirement or a WP requirement?

It seems really odd if it is an immigration issue???

You would think that the purpose of a teacher's liscense would be to ensure that teachers are qualified(not saying treacher's license in its present form does this) before issuing a work permit to teach.

It doesn'y make any sense if the reality is you don't need a teachers license to teach you only need it extend your visa??? Does this mean if you are a teacher that qualifies for an alternative visa you will never need a teachers license?

It seems to be only teachers who work in primary/secondary education who need a teacher's license. Immigration requires paperwork to process a visa extension and request a teacher's license for those of us working at that level or (at least last year) a waiver from the TTC.

So does this mean a TL is only needed to get a visa extension?

If so, does this mean if a teacher does not get a TL they can still legally teach, but will need to leave the country every 3 months to get a new visa and then reapply for WP every three months? (not saying that anyone in there right mind would want to do this)

[CWMcMurray]

Just ran out of time to edit...

Also does this mean that if a teacher gets an extension based upon marriage, then he doesn't need a TL ???

[Loaded]

Just ran out of time to edit...

Also does this mean that if a teacher gets an extension based upon marriage, then he doesn't need a TL ???

probably

[ThaiFelix]

Just ran out of time to edit...

Also does this mean that if a teacher gets an extension based upon marriage, then he doesn't need a TL ???

probably

agreed

[otherstuff1957]

^ That depends.... To get an extension based on marriage you need to show a monthly income of 40K. There are two ways to do this: one, get a letter saying that you have that much income from some overseas source & have that letter notarized at your friendly local Embassy. Immigration MAY accept this as proof that you can support your Thai wife & grant you an extension. Or, two, get a job in Thailand, earn and pay taxes on 40K or more per month, show Immigration your Work Permit & Tax Receipts and they will give you an extension.

To the best of my knowledge, you need a TL to get a WP as a teacher. So, unless I am totally mistaken (which is always a possibility ) you still need a TL if you are married to a Thai woman.

[CWMcMurray]

^ Thats seems to be the question...

From what I have been reading on this site and others, everyone else seems to be saying that the TL is not required for a work permit only for visa extension for the purpose of working as a teacher.

I agree it would make more sense if a professional license (ie TL) was required for work permit, not for visa extension.

[Edsman]

If you have the required qualifications and the culture course then you don't need the waiver.

Required qualification is what - any bachelor, or the B in Ed??

That depends. The official answer is a degree or Post-Graduate Certificate in education. These seem an unrealistically high expectation given the pay.

I assume you're talking about an education degree, right? I have a BA and MSc but don't have one in education. I'm thinking about enrolling in a M.Ed program, will that qualify or will I specifically need a teaching credential from my home country? Time constraints prevent me from getting the TL in the US, but many universities have distance M.Ed programs. Again, will the M.Ed without a home country license qualify me without having to jump thru all the hoops? I'm trying to maximize my dollars without having to take too many courses to get the official Thai TL.

[Xangsamhua]

One wonders about what they learned in their education courses when they haven't even heard of Benjamin Bloom!

Who's she then?

I was doing some in-service with a group of new teachers recently and we had a look at Bloom's taxonomy (just the cognitive abilities pyramid). The only person in the group who knew about Bloom was a Filipina who had done an Education course after Bible College.

Bloom's Taxonomy is (or used to be?) standard fare in Education courses. The cognitive abilities pyramid puts the cognitive abilities on a 6-point scale from simple recall/recognition at the bottom to evaluation/creativity at the top (there has been some revision of the scale). Student teachers may be asked to prepare activities for students reflecting the different levels of cognitive demand and, therefore, the range of cognitive abilities present in any class.

PS. Bloom, a psychologist, together with his colleagues at the University of Chicago, devised the Taxonomy in 1956.

[Scott]

Once again there is confusion in Thailand. I am surprised.

I talked to our Administrative Assistant who handles these affairs for us. According to her--and this would apply to the area where I work and not necessarily to anywhere else in the Kingdom--you do not need a TL for the visa. The TL is needed when you apply for the Work Permit. To get the TL, you need to have the B.Ed., which most of our teachers don't have, so an application is made for a waiver, which is granted. The Cultural training is needed for the TL, but if you don't have B.Ed., you can't get the 'real' TL, so you get apply for the waiver.

In this area of Bangkok-Samut Prakarn, it's fairly automatic to get the waiver. We've had no one denied one yet. In theory, people have 2 years to either get the proper credentials or sign up for the courses needed. For the past 2 years, she's just been continuously applying for waivers which, as stated, have been granted.

Thus everyone gets a Work Permit.

How long this will work is anyone's guess.

[Edsman]

Once again there is confusion in Thailand. I am surprised.

, but if you don't have B.Ed., you can't get the 'real' TL, so you get apply for the waiver.

What if you have a M.Ed (not a B.Ed) without a home country teaching license? Will the M.Ed be sufficient to get the "real" TL? I've been told the major consideration is the home country license, not the degree itself. Can anyone confirm this or will the M.Ed be sufficient to grant the Thai TL?

[Mario2008]

Just a reminder that there is already a topic on this here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Teacher-Lice...ing-t89409.html

As for the TL requirement by immigration, a few immigration offices do ask for a TL or waiver. Without them they won't give an extension of stay based on being a teacher. However, they don't have a problem with some one teaching without a TL or wiver when on an extension of stay based on another reason, like marriage. See above mentioned topic.

[Ijustwannateach]

Anecdote from a friend: heard that at his school they started with the culture course, then tried to go with the "education" credential- only to be laughed at by a staff who already were holders of various higher degrees. It was the *school* that stopping pressing- not apparently any government body.

Not that I'm cynical, but would suggest more than a few schools are happy to be in bed with the test muppets- who really don't seem to enjoy huge support from any of the 'Big 3' departments (Education, Labour, Immigration) if they can cream off some of the hefty fees they imagine they can charge for the non-degree, non-official, coaching for the bullsh*t tests. Try a bit of resistance and you might be surprised how things go- especially as the current government has already hinted they want to institute their OWN special tests, credentials, etc.

Plus, I've never seen ANY documentation of ANY guarantee ANYWHERE by ANYONE of what the actual, real, genuine, guaranteed-to-pass credentials are.