Central May Be About To Collapse

[anothertorres]

Actually i can not remember any major buildings in Thailand that has come down due design errors or due substandard construction. Not like US where there are many shown every week in discovery and NGC.

You are seemingly also not familiar with google.Try a google for building collapse thailand or hotel collapse thailand and start reading the results.

HINT: do the google when you have some extra time because you gonna need it to read all the results.

it's still standing. and... http://tinyurl.com/ks5r7b

[MeetJohnDoe]

it's still standing. and... http://tinyurl.com/ks5r7b

Good you reported back...it's been a couple hours since you started your perilous journey...if we hadn't heard from you soon we were going to send in a major disaster search and rescue team to dig you out of the rubble.

[anothertorres]

fyi, Zen does have garlic fried rice, it's just not in the 10lb menu.

[Ohio]

fyi, Zen does have garlic fried rice, it's just not in the 10lb menu.

Thank God / Allah/ for that

[tropo]

. I know next to nothing about construction,

And you don't need to know anything about construction as long as you have your trusty "3rd sense" to guide you.

Did your "3rd sense" give you the all clear to shop at Mike Mall?

[Mobi]

. I know next to nothing about construction,

And you don't need to know anything about construction as long as you have your trusty "3rd sense" to guide you.

Did your "3rd sense" give you the all clear to shop at Mike Mall?

I don't need to shop anywhere - I have a closet jammed full of clothes.

A useful precaution against the whole of Pattaya collapsing.

[thaihome]

.... If you go into a Bangkok building site, you will be impressed by the overall professionalism that seems to pervade there. Safety signs everywhere, hard hats worn by everyone, and just a general feeling that they are all experienced and capable workers; from those who mix the cement, to the highly skilled artisans.. This has to be the case, because there are so many major construction projects continually on the go in Bangkok, it would be a disaster if they were sub -standard. I bet all the electricians, plumbers, and other skilled artisans, are properly qualified, and properly supervised.

But once you get outside of Bangkok, it is a completely different story. I know next to nothing about construction, but I do know that every electrician you find on a construction site is also a plumber and usually knows F. all about either skills. They have no system of apprenticeship and 'doing their time' and they all think they know everything there is to know about building and fixing and installing everything, and we farangs are all stupid. All it takes to be hired as a senior manager on a construction site is a bullshit degree that was probably "bought" by Daddy. Someone who had minimum schooling, but years of experience, won't even get a look in.

OK, Central was a major project - one of the biggest ever carried out in recent years in Pattaya - and no doubt the construction firm brought a lot of skilled workers and managers from Bangkok. But I bet you they also used a load of local workers, especially at the semi skilled and labouring end. If these firms are used to building in Bangkok where there is a pool of experienced workers, then even they might not have been aware how useless some of the workers are in Pattaya - some of them can't even speak Thai - let alone English.

So it wouldn't surprise me one iota, if the building turns out to be sub standard. A typical Thai Fck.Up.

I hope I'm wrong, but just to be sure I'll stick to Mike's.

At least I won't see Tropo there.

Obviously you are not familiar with the Eastern Seaboard Industrial Estates just down the road from Pattaya which has some 7 major projects all being done by Thai labor and in many cases Thai Engineering and Construction companies much more complicated then a simple mall going on right now. Compared to the sites you like so much in Bangkok, the safety and professionalism pales in comparison to what is going on (and has been going on for over 20 years now) in Maptaphut. How many workers did the Central Mall have at one time? I can show you 3 projects within a kilometer of each other that have over 2,000 each right now. To say this was a big project for outside Bangkok is ridiculous.

TH

[tropo]

I don't need to shop anywhere - I have a closet jammed full of clothes.

So your info on Mike Mall could be a bit dated then? How long since you set foot in that monstosity?

[Mobi]

Obviously you are not familiar with the Eastern Seaboard Industrial Estates just down the road from Pattaya which has some 7 major projects all being done by Thai labor and in many cases Thai Engineering and Construction companies much more complicated then a simple mall going on right now. Compared to the sites you like so much in Bangkok, the safety and professionalism pales in comparison to what is going on (and has been going on for over 20 years now) in Maptaphut. How many workers did the Central Mall have at one time? I can show you 3 projects within a kilometer of each other that have over 2,000 each right now. To say this was a big project for outside Bangkok is ridiculous.

TH

I am aware of, and have seen first hand, many of these projects, so please don't show them to me. In fact I know some Thais who are working on them, so I am not a complete lemon

And also please don't put words into my mouth - I have never come across a building site that I "liked" in all my life.

I still think there is something in what I say, but in the interests of keeping your blood pressure from boiling too much, I bow to your obvious greater knowledge of such matters.

We shall see what we shall see over the coming months, or years.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Mobi

[Mobi]

I don't need to shop anywhere - I have a closet jammed full of clothes.

So your info on Mike Mall could be a bit dated then? How long since you set foot in that monstosity?

I stocked up there - on the legit floors -about 3 months ago before I went on my S E Asian odyssey. No shudders, and no brackets or flanges in the car park, but i admit I didn't look that closely. Too hot and smelly

[tropo]

Too hot and smelly

You got that right!

[Mobi]

Too hot and smelly

You got that right!

The car park.

The store is just fine.

[johng]

Today they are encasing the metal addon supports in gypsum board...not only does it look much better, almost like its part of the concrete pillar ..but I would imagine it will stop some poor sod from doing some serious damage to their noggin

whilst getting into/out of their car.

[Soutpeel]

Today they are encasing the metal addon supports in gypsum board...not only does it look much better, almost like its part of the concrete pillar ..but I would imagine it will stop some poor sod from doing some serious damage to their noggin

whilst getting into/out of their car.

Brings a new meaning to papering over the cracks ....

Dont think its a case of being interested in protecting anybodies noggin, more to do with covering things up...note your own comment.."almost looks like part of a concrete pillar"....

[PattayaParent]

I don't know but I think it is very worrying to think about what may happen if just one such pillar gives in for the weight on top - 6 floors of mall + another 8 or so of a hotel on top of it....

What an alarmist post ...

First there is NO hotel on top of these pillars.

The hotel is only over the end sea side of the mall while the car park is on the 2nd road side only.

Then there are NO "6 floors of mall" above neither. This corner of the building is "car parks" only.

Now I agree that this "reinforcement" is not the best for such a new building,

but that also means that someone take care of this kind of potential problem

So what gives you the confidence that the Engineers who got the car park design wrong (if that is the cause) or the contractors that constructed the car park wrong (if that is the cause) actually got the rest of the building right???

[tropo]

I don't know but I think it is very worrying to think about what may happen if just one such pillar gives in for the weight on top - 6 floors of mall + another 8 or so of a hotel on top of it....

What an alarmist post ...

First there is NO hotel on top of these pillars.

The hotel is only over the end sea side of the mall while the car park is on the 2nd road side only.

Then there are NO "6 floors of mall" above neither. This corner of the building is "car parks" only.

Now I agree that this "reinforcement" is not the best for such a new building,

but that also means that someone take care of this kind of potential problem

So what gives you the confidence that the Engineers who got the car park design wrong (if that is the cause) or the contractors that constructed the car park wrong (if that is the cause) actually got the rest of the building right???

Is there a building on the whole planet that has no teething problems after construction? Perhaps it's the buildings which don't show obvious patch work which are the most dangerous. Right now Central is probably the safest building in Pattaya.

[neil324]

I don't know but I think it is very worrying to think about what may happen if just one such pillar gives in for the weight on top - 6 floors of mall + another 8 or so of a hotel on top of it....

What an alarmist post ...

First there is NO hotel on top of these pillars.

The hotel is only over the end sea side of the mall while the car park is on the 2nd road side only.

Then there are NO "6 floors of mall" above neither. This corner of the building is "car parks" only.

Now I agree that this "reinforcement" is not the best for such a new building,

but that also means that someone take care of this kind of potential problem

So what gives you the confidence that the Engineers who got the car park design wrong (if that is the cause) or the contractors that constructed the car park wrong (if that is the cause) actually got the rest of the building right???

Is there a building on the whole planet that has no teething problems after construction? Perhaps it's the buildings which don't show obvious patch work which are the most dangerous. Right now Central is probably the safest building in Pattaya.

Yeh but its not a couple of cracked tiles, general snagging list you get on the completion of a construction project is it.

[tropo]

Yeh but its not a couple of cracked tiles, general snagging list you get on the completion of a construction project is it.

I don't know. I'm not a construction engineer and don't spend my time wandering around newly constructed buildings. I'm yet to see evidence of cracks, which would be evident before a building collapses. The gap shown on one photo is not a crack.

What I do know is that despite the general panic this thread has attempted to cause, no one has managed to get any public attention. Do you really believe that the engineers are knowlingly allowing this building to be inhabited by thousands every day if they feel it is unsafe? Do you really believe Thai construction engineers are that irresponsible?

[MJo]

Yeh but its not a couple of cracked tiles, general snagging list you get on the completion of a construction project is it.

I don't know. I'm not a construction engineer and don't spend my time wandering around newly constructed buildings. I'm yet to see evidence of cracks, which would be evident before a building collapses. The gap shown on one photo is not a crack.

What I do know is that despite the general panic this thread has attempted to cause, no one has managed to get any public attention. Do you really believe that the engineers are knowlingly allowing this building to be inhabited by thousands every day if they feel it is unsafe? Do you really believe Thai construction engineers are that irresponsible?

Forget it mate, as you can see from the earlier replies i got they are fairly convinced that if the guy delivering their laundry get's it wrong then the thai engineers must be even worse. It would be easier to sell central heating to Thai's than get some common sense out of this lot

[raro]

Spoke to a German construction engineer the other day...although difficult to judge without a proper investigation, he said that the good news is that a problem has been identified and action has been taken.

[PattayaParent]

<SNIP>. Do you really believe that the engineers are knowlingly allowing this building to be inhabited by thousands every day if they feel it is unsafe? Do you really believe Thai construction engineers are that irresponsible?

Cover something up to avoid responsibility or loss of face not to mention millions of dollars in liability???

I think you know the answer to that one?

[tropo]

<SNIP>. Do you really believe that the engineers are knowlingly allowing this building to be inhabited by thousands every day if they feel it is unsafe? Do you really believe Thai construction engineers are that irresponsible?

Cover something up to avoid responsibility or loss of face not to mention millions of dollars in liability???

I think you know the answer to that one?

Putting in extra supports for the whole world to see would be the absolute worst way to cover up. They could best achieve "cover up" by just leaving it alone, couldn't they?

I'm heading there for a meal shortly.

Edited June 15, 2009 by tropo

[Thaifan2]

Spoke to a German construction engineer the other day...although difficult to judge without a proper investigation, he said that the good news is that a problem has been identified and action has been taken.

Auf Deutsch ? ,or did he speak pigin English ? '' Zi building ist sehr stark ,unt kein problem !''

[Heng]

Yeah, I think I'll keep going anyway as well.

Note to debtors: as per our contracts, your debt is to the company, not the man.

[PattayaParent]

<SNIP>. Do you really believe that the engineers are knowlingly allowing this building to be inhabited by thousands every day if they feel it is unsafe? Do you really believe Thai construction engineers are that irresponsible?

Cover something up to avoid responsibility or loss of face not to mention millions of dollars in liability???

I think you know the answer to that one?

Putting in extra supports for the whole world to see would be the absolute worst way to cover up. They could best achieve "cover up" by just leaving it alone, couldn't they?

I'm heading there for a meal shortly.

Not if they were to cover up the extra supports by encasing them in gypsum board so that they are hidden??

And now that they've discovered that there's an obvious problem in the car park where all the columns and beams are exposed and have rectified/hidden (delete as appropriate) the problem have they inspected the whole of the rest of the mall? Especially those connections that are hidden by the shopfitting of the tenants?

Edited June 16, 2009 by PattayaParent

[raro]

Spoke to a German construction engineer the other day...although difficult to judge without a proper investigation, he said that the good news is that a problem has been identified and action has been taken.

Auf Deutsch ? ,or did he speak pigin English ? '' Zi building ist sehr stark ,unt kein problem !''

right, we were speaking German with each other. And yes, some German's English skills are about as poor as most English native speaker's second language skills.

[rafval]

on the bright side, Im sure any movement will show quickly as cracks around the edges of the gypsum

[MJo]

I still havent seen any cracks in the pics. Yes there is wide gap but cracks in concrete are not linear are they ?

[thaimate]

wish me luck as you wave me goodby,we are off there for dinner so if i dont post again you know we perished with a full stomach,hopefully.

[CGW]

wish me luck as you wave me goodby,we are off there for dinner so if i dont post again you know we perished with a full stomach,hopefully.

Pattaya may well be quite, there may be a lot of pessimism about, BUT its gladdens my heart to know we have some brave and courageous souls walking the mean streets and questionable malls of OUR fair city, daring to go where few would venture, my hats off to you all