Sinsod?

[MJo]

I agree with your views about sin sod, but I don't know where these 40 guys found women not DEMANDING such extorsion money. I have lived in LOS almost 5 years and almost always here thes mentioned whenever marriageis mentioned or even when marriage is not mentioned. The asking price usually starts at one million, where there is a Farang involved. Yesterday I met a very nice lady of 23, who had a B.A. in English and was embarking on a career of starting her own business. I happened to mention the subject of sin sod & she said her family would probably ask 10-12 million!!!! She said this with quite a straight face. Unbelieveable.

It was just her way to tell you politely "thanks but no thanks". You can expect that from most educated, nice under 30 year old ladies with degrees

[kurnell]

I am always amazed at how much bad information on this subject is going around. 500,000! 1,000,000 baht??? What a pile of <deleted>. 10-12 million has never happened and never will unless one or both parties have a mental illness. No wonder Thais think we are stupid.

Over the last 20 years most of my friends and myself have married a range of Thai girls, including a couple of millionaires and none of us have come anything like the numbers in this forum and if they have, the whole lot has been returned. 30% of them have paid nothing.

A very, very rich Thai-English mate of mine paid 200,000 for his Thai wife, so that will give you an indication of the maximum you should go. Anymore than that, particularly for bar girls with kids is, to put it mildy, starting off on the wrong foot and almost guaranteed to end with a destitute farang and some pissed us locals laughing all the way to the bank.

[a2396]

I am always amazed at how much bad information on this subject is going around. 500,000! 1,000,000 baht??? What a pile of <deleted>. 10-12 million has never happened and never will unless one or both parties have a mental illness. No wonder Thais think we are stupid.

Over the last 20 years most of my friends and myself have married a range of Thai girls, including a couple of millionaires and none of us have come anything like the numbers in this forum and if they have, the whole lot has been returned. 30% of them have paid nothing.

A very, very rich Thai-English mate of mine paid 200,000 for his Thai wife, so that will give you an indication of the maximum you should go. Anymore than that, particularly for bar girls with kids is, to put it mildy, starting off on the wrong foot and almost guaranteed to end with a destitute farang and some pissed us locals laughing all the way to the bank.

You and your friends obviously don't travel in the same circles I do. In my time in Thailand, rarely have I heard less than one million mentioned, when a foreign man is involved in the match. Yes, Thai to Thai likely pay 50K to 200K, depending on the situation and probably some or all of theat money may be returned to the couple. When a Farang is involved, the rules go out the window, if there is such a thing in this unseemly business.

[MJo]

You and your friends obviously don't travel in the same circles I do. In my time in Thailand, rarely have I heard less than one million mentioned, when a foreign man is involved in the match. Yes, Thai to Thai likely pay 50K to 200K, depending on the situation and probably some or all of theat money may be returned to the couple. When a Farang is involved, the rules go out the window, if there is such a thing in this unseemly business.

Which circles are those ?

Just interested to know, i have impression based on my own experiences and from friends that in Bangkok 200k is faily common. Sometimes more if she is higher class / well known family. And most often it is returned to the couple. Then again everyone i know married from isan villages the first request is always 1M and then negotiated down or paid as asked.

Nothing against marrying from Bangkok or from Isan, just my observation and does it make sense that more poorer families ask more and keep the money to as they are usually in dire need of cash most of the time ?

[kurnell]

I am always amazed at how much bad information on this subject is going around. 500,000! 1,000,000 baht??? What a pile of <deleted>. 10-12 million has never happened and never will unless one or both parties have a mental illness. No wonder Thais think we are stupid.

Over the last 20 years most of my friends and myself have married a range of Thai girls, including a couple of millionaires and none of us have come anything like the numbers in this forum and if they have, the whole lot has been returned. 30% of them have paid nothing.

A very, very rich Thai-English mate of mine paid 200,000 for his Thai wife, so that will give you an indication of the maximum you should go. Anymore than that, particularly for bar girls with kids is, to put it mildy, starting off on the wrong foot and almost guaranteed to end with a destitute farang and some pissed us locals laughing all the way to the bank.

You and your friends obviously don't travel in the same circles I do. In my time in Thailand, rarely have I heard less than one million mentioned, when a foreign man is involved in the match. Yes, Thai to Thai likely pay 50K to 200K, depending on the situation and probably some or all of theat money may be returned to the couple. When a Farang is involved, the rules go out the window, if there is such a thing in this unseemly business.

That's laughable mate, as only one of my friends paid 1 million and he got it right back. 100%. The majority of the people I know are managers of international companies, business owners, school teachers and most have married Thai managers, naturally with minimum bachelors degree. I think we are talking about different sorts of people here. Anyone that pays 1 million for an Isaan farm girl has zero sense and the family is interested in deep pockets only. I can 100% prove all the above. My missus cost me 150k and is probably earning more than most of the members of this forum.

[sassienie]

I read the pined post of: Pinned: Sin Sod - An Explanation "PLEASE READ THIS FIRST”

And Now, I am more confused than ever. I understand the terms, and I know the cultural significance of it, but I still don’t know what is appropriate, there are two posts in that thread , one say you always get it back , the other one say you don’t get it back, which one is correct?? I love my fiancé, and I love her family, they are decent people and I want to do the right thing for her and her family. Personally I think that my fiancé getting married to me (I don’t have such a high opinion of my self , just considering the opportunities available to her as a US citizen) is of greater value, than sinsod ,but I understand the need of her family to comply to their cultural norms. After all they have to live in their village and they need to be respected.

I know that this subject has being disclosed many times, I have read countless of posts on the subject, but there are so many conflicting opinions, I am now more confused than ever. Can some one once and for all tell me what is appropriate. Not your opinion on the matter, we all have one, not what you would do, or have done, that is anecdotal, and your particular situation. but what is appropriate.

Thank you

PS. My finance is a beautiful 25 year old, with a University degree, from a poor family in Isaan .

So you are saying that your finance is beautiful, educated and only 25 years old.

Oh boy, ''is this going to cost you'' and the bigger the age gap between you, the more she is going to cost.

I have over 40 English and American friends all married to Thai ladies, including myself, some living abroad, others resident in Thailand, not one of us was ever asked to pay off a family for the purchase of their daughter. And this is exactly what it is, a purchase.

It`s all down to the strong desire for a bit of long term hot totty. Any guy that is willing to go to these extremes must be absolutely desperate and looney tune.

Where I come from in the East End of London, the reply to a request for a sin sod is to sod off.

You also quote that you have a low opinion of yourself and this thread proves it.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for fools and you deserve all the crap that will be coming your way, soon.

I agree with your views about sin sod, but I don't know where these 40 guys found women not DEMANDING such extorsion money. I have lived in LOS almost 5 years and almost always here thes mentioned whenever marriageis mentioned or even when marriage is not mentioned. The asking price usually starts at one million, where there is a Farang involved. Yesterday I met a very nice lady of 23, who had a B.A. in English and was embarking on a career of starting her own business. I happened to mention the subject of sin sod & she said her family would probably ask 10-12 million!!!! She said this with quite a straight face. Unbelieveable.

Edited June 13, 2009 by sassienie

[Huey]

I read the pined post of: Pinned: Sin Sod - An Explanation "PLEASE READ THIS FIRST”

And Now, I am more confused than ever. I understand the terms, and I know the cultural significance of it, but I still don’t know what is appropriate, there are two posts in that thread , one say you always get it back , the other one say you don’t get it back, which one is correct?? I love my fiancé, and I love her family, they are decent people and I want to do the right thing for her and her family. Personally I think that my fiancé getting married to me (I don’t have such a high opinion of my self , just considering the opportunities available to her as a US citizen) is of greater value, than sinsod ,but I understand the need of her family to comply to their cultural norms. After all they have to live in their village and they need to be respected.

I know that this subject has being disclosed many times, I have read countless of posts on the subject, but there are so many conflicting opinions, I am now more confused than ever. Can some one once and for all tell me what is appropriate. Not your opinion on the matter, we all have one, not what you would do, or have done, that is anecdotal, and your particular situation. but what is appropriate.

Thank you

PS. My finance is a beautiful 25 year old, with a University degree, from a poor family in Isaan .

Not more than 100 or 200 Thousand Baht. Poor from Essan, A Thai Man marring her would not pay anything like this and even then he would likey be paying with his family's money not his own like a Man should. So why pay more than a Thai?

[Huey]

I read the pined post of: Pinned: Sin Sod - An Explanation "PLEASE READ THIS FIRST”

And Now, I am more confused than ever. I understand the terms, and I know the cultural significance of it, but I still don’t know what is appropriate, there are two posts in that thread , one say you always get it back , the other one say you don’t get it back, which one is correct?? I love my fiancé, and I love her family, they are decent people and I want to do the right thing for her and her family. Personally I think that my fiancé getting married to me (I don’t have such a high opinion of my self , just considering the opportunities available to her as a US citizen) is of greater value, than sinsod ,but I understand the need of her family to comply to their cultural norms. After all they have to live in their village and they need to be respected.

I know that this subject has being disclosed many times, I have read countless of posts on the subject, but there are so many conflicting opinions, I am now more confused than ever. Can some one once and for all tell me what is appropriate. Not your opinion on the matter, we all have one, not what you would do, or have done, that is anecdotal, and your particular situation. but what is appropriate.

Thank you

PS. My finance is a beautiful 25 year old, with a University degree, from a poor family in Isaan .

So you are saying that your finance is beautiful, educated and only 25 years old.

Oh boy, ''is this going to cost you'' and the bigger the age gap between you, the more she is going to cost.

I have over 40 English and American friends all married to Thai ladies, including myself, some living abroad, others resident in Thailand, not one of us was ever asked to pay off a family for the purchase of their daughter. And this is exactly what it is, a purchase.

It`s all down to the strong desire for a bit of long term hot totty. Any guy that is willing to go to these extremes must be absolutely desperate and looney tune.

Where I come from in the East End of London, the reply to a request for a sin sod is to sod off.

You also quote that you have a low opinion of yourself and this thread proves it.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for fools and you deserve all the crap that will be coming your way, soon.

I agree with your views about sin sod, but I don't know where these 40 guys found women not DEMANDING such extorsion money. I have lived in LOS almost 5 years and almost always here thes mentioned whenever marriageis mentioned or even when marriage is not mentioned. The asking price usually starts at one million, where there is a Farang involved. Yesterday I met a very nice lady of 23, who had a B.A. in English and was embarking on a career of starting her own business. I happened to mention the subject of sin sod & she said her family would probably ask 10-12 million!!!! She said this with quite a straight face. Unbelieveable.

Yes I have seen this also, my wife's friend is around 25 and her family owns a jewelry shop. They want 15mill and min 2 carat ring. Honestly I think the only difference between this shit and the mothers who sell their children as babies to beggar mafia, is the amount of zero's in the transaction.

[sezze]

After talking and listening to a lot of stories from many people including many Thais .

Central Thailand no sinsod

South Thailand , sinsod but returns to couple .

Isaan area , depends , some do sinsod , others don't . Any nr above 100k is rubbish and only to take your money . forget all the 500k etc , that is a lie ... and way too much , no matter what family she comes from , how old she is and how sick the buffalo is .

There might be exceptions on the rules from sinsod or no sinsod area related but NOT on the number .

[kurnell]

After talking and listening to a lot of stories from many people including many Thais .

Central Thailand no sinsod

South Thailand , sinsod but returns to couple .

Isaan area , depends , some do sinsod , others don't . Any nr above 100k is rubbish and only to take your money . forget all the 500k etc , that is a lie ... and way too much , no matter what family she comes from , how old she is and how sick the buffalo is .

There might be exceptions on the rules from sinsod or no sinsod area related but NOT on the number .

Bingo!

[MiG16]

what really amazes me is the number of people who think that based on a few experiences they can capture and explain the entire process of what goes on and the reasoning behind the idea of 'sin sod' or dowry

im not going to say anybody, farang or thai, should be made to pay X, or 100X or 1000X amount.

I will however say that yes I have known of (my own family and very close friends) - who have given away at least 500K (cash), received a European car (worth more than 1.5Million), large amount of gold, or a combination thereof (and yes in most of these cases diamond ring involved, in some cases theres also diamond necklace, earrings, blah blah). some of it was not asked, but simply given. some negotiated.

people like that do exist in Thai society.

not saying whether its right or wrong, or that I can explain each of their logic.

but just thought Id list some of the 'sin sod' Ive known of

I best stop reading this thread.

[Livinginexile]

what really amazes me is the number of people who think that based on a few experiences they can capture and explain the entire process of what goes on and the reasoning behind the idea of 'sin sod' or dowry

im not going to say anybody, farang or thai, should be made to pay X, or 100X or 1000X amount.

I will however say that yes I have known of (my own family and very close friends) - who have given away at least 500K (cash), received a European car (worth more than 1.5Million), large amount of gold, or a combination thereof (and yes in most of these cases diamond ring involved, in some cases theres also diamond necklace, earrings, blah blah). some of it was not asked, but simply given. some negotiated.

people like that do exist in Thai society.

not saying whether its right or wrong, or that I can explain each of their logic.

but just thought Id list some of the 'sin sod' Ive known of

I best stop reading this thread.

Hi MiG16, I allways like to read your balanced views on this subject. Thank you for taking the time to write.

Could you please clarify 3 things from the above highlighted in red.

1) To whom was these things given, was it to the brides family or directly to the bride?

2) Who gave these things, was it the groom's family or the groom himself?

3) As for the cash and gold, was it given to the bride and groom after the ceremony?

Thanks again for you time.

[kurnell]

I think the point of the thread was to establish what is a fair amount to give for Sin Sod for the average girl.

Unless you are marrying into a family of billionaires, I think I can safely say that 1.5 million dollar cars are out of the question, despite the fact that someone may have done that.

In my humble opinion, for an uneducated single girl, 100k is more than enough. Throw in a degree, possible a good job then 200k covers that. Any more and I reckon you are being rorted and need to keep looking as there are many, many lovely, well educated girls out there screaming out for a good bloke with a decent job.

Problem is, how do these girls meet the good blokes? Maybe I should open an introduction service!

[ThaiEye]

Heres an interesting article on the history of sinsod etc....

How Much Dowry should I Pay?

[hhgz]

"one say you always get it back , the other one say you don’t get it back, which one is correct??"

The posts read no such thing. Individual posters have provided feedback for their individual circumstances. In no case did any poster claim their circumstance reflected "all" cases. The one person who can answer the question in your case is your girlfriend, and you've refused to raise the question to her. Why is that? You are looking for a universal truth, and here is a universal truth. All poor people - in every culture, in any nation - think about money. In your relationship, you are the answer to her dreams. It's not your personality, your fidelity, your nurturing and caring - it is your money. Here's another universal truth. You believe that the payment of sinsod is the end of your misery. It is not. Sinsod is merely a down payment for a relationship filled with ongoing financial crises and emotional trauma. Good luck.

[MiG16]

seeing that this topic keeps popping up every 2 days or so

and as someone rightly pointed out, there isnt much to go on in the pinned thread, Ive taken the liberty of moving 4 posts from this thread to the pinned thread. (and may move more from other recent threads on the topic)

I hope the posters of those comments do not object, but if you do please PM me and I will rectify the situation.

cheers